Hey guys, I just bought this WJ which was already built. It doesn't flex well in the front end yet, rear is good. It's got a radius arm setup in the front and a triangulated rear.

I was wondering if I can remove the passenger side upper on the front to get a bit more flex out of it? I've read a few posts and searched around, found lots of great info. I'd have to switch the front upper link end to a heim joint though right?

I know the radius setup is not perfered and will probably end up changing it over to a 3 link system. I just want to see what this one will do first.
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj231/blackss2005/IMG_1741.jpg
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj231/blackss2005/IMG_1742.jpg
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj231/blackss2005/IMG_1749.jpg
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj231/blackss2005/IMG_1750.jpg
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj231/blackss2005/IMG_1751.jpg

Yes, you can remove one upper to relieve the stress caused by the binding.

Yes, you can remove one upper to relieve the stress caused by the binding.

I need to double check the upper bushing on the axle to see if it's rubber or not. Can I still try it if it's rubber?

I need to double check the upper bushing on the axle to see if it's rubber or not. Can I still try it if it's rubber?

Don't do it if any of the bushings are rubber. Maaaaybe if they're poly, but I think most will say that hard joints are a must with that setup.
Billy

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj231/blackss2005/IMG_1751.jpg

Oh, and is that giant "jam nut" loose?
Billy

Don't do it if any of the bushings are rubber. Maaaaybe if they're poly, but I think most will say that hard joints are a must with that setup.
Billy
Do the lowers also have to be hard joints? The rear lowers are johnny joints. Is there anything out there that will go in place without have to redo the axle mounts?

I'm kind of new to this stuff so I appreciate the help.

Oh, and is that giant "jam nut" loose?
Billy

No it's not loose. That's the nut you turn to make the arms longer or shorter, not a jamb nut.

Do the lowers also have to be hard joints? The rear lowers are johnny joints. Is there anything out there that will go in place without have to redo the axle mounts?

I'm surprised they aren't already. I would want hard joints there, but don't order anything without a few other opinions.

How wide is the bushing you have in there now? The most common RE/Ballistic/Creeper Joints are 2.63" wide, I believe. Ballistic makes a 3" wide version. I'm sure there are a few other widths as well. You could always do a big ass heim with spacers.


No it's not loose. That's the nut you turn to make the arms longer or shorter, not a jamb nut.

Gotcha.

Billy

I'm surprised they aren't already. I would want hard joints there, but don't order anything without a few other opinions.

How wide is the bushing you have in there now? The most common RE/Ballistic/Creeper Joints are 2.63" wide, I believe. Ballistic makes a 3" wide version. I'm sure there are a few other widths as well. You could always do a big ass heim with spacers.


I will have to check the bushing width tonight. I've got a bunch of heim joints that came with the Jeep. Probably too small though, same size as the upper radius heims now.

I will have to check the bushing width tonight. I've got a bunch of heim joints that came with the Jeep. Probably too small though, same size as the upper radius heims now.


That looks like a 7/8in but coudl be a 3/4in, i like the 1.25in Heims for the lower links. With missalignment spacers for 9/16in bolt they are 2.63in wide.

If you kept both uppers and had bushings on both ends of the upper arms and a bushing on the axle end lower it would flex better then what you have now. Im not a fan of the 1 upper, its alot of stress on one side. My buddies toyota is bushings on both uppers and the axle end lower link and gets full 16in travel out of his coilovers. They have bent but now that the lowers are 2.25 3/8in wall they havent bent yet. You need a really good joint at the frame end 1.25in heim.

That looks like a 7/8in but coudl be a 3/4in, i like the 1.25in Heims for the lower links. With missalignment spacers for 9/16in bolt they are 2.63in wide.

If you kept both uppers and had bushings on both ends of the upper arms and a bushing on the axle end lower it would flex better then what you have now. Im not a fan of the 1 upper, its alot of stress on one side. My buddies toyota is bushings on both uppers and the axle end lower link and gets full 16in travel out of his coilovers. They have bent but now that the lowers are 2.25 3/8in wall they havent bent yet. You need a really good joint at the frame end 1.25in heim.

When you're talking about heim sizes it's the OD of the threads on the outside where it goes to the arm right? I know bore is the inside of the heim where the joint goes.

So if I have rubber bushings on all four ends at the axle, JJ on the frame end and heim on the upper arm where it attaches to the lower I will get more flex out of a rubber bushing on the upper to lower? Then a heim on the lower frame end? I though JJs were pretty good.

Bear with me as I'm still learning the lingo.

I just checked and indead all the mounts on the front axle are rubber, not much play in them though, pretty stiff. The upper uses a 1/2" grade 8 bolt on the axle end and a 7/16" grade 8 bolt on the other end. Are these bolts too small to try the one upper?

When you're talking about heim sizes it's the OD of the threads on the outside where it goes to the arm right? I know bore is the inside of the heim where the joint goes.

So if I have rubber bushings on all four ends at the axle, JJ on the frame end and heim on the upper arm where it attaches to the lower I will get more flex out of a rubber bushing on the upper to lower? Then a heim on the lower frame end? I though JJs were pretty good.

Bear with me as I'm still learning the lingo.

no, the upper arms should have bushings at both ends, not a heim at one end.
The lower arms can have a jj or heim at the frame but should have a bushing at the axle end.

That will give you less bind.


I would be worried about little 1/2 or 7/16in bolts... are you sure the factory lowers were about 9/16in (but metric)

On Heims a 7/8in heim is 7/8in at the threads, it can have a 3/4in or 7/8in bore, 7/8in bore and threads is most common. A 3/4in will have 3/4in threads, the body size of both is very similar its hard to tell from your pictures.

Having all bushings on a radius arm setup like that leads to a front axle that does the 'radius arm boogie' when climbing stuff. hop hop hop hop hop...

So I pulled the passenger side upper arm off and went out to try it out. Feels very weird on the road. It didn't flex any better. Maybe It's flexing like it should, I dunno.

These are the pics with the RU link removed, no sway bar
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj231/blackss2005/IMG_1764.jpg
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj231/blackss2005/IMG_1765.jpg
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj231/blackss2005/IMG_1766.jpg
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj231/blackss2005/IMG_1767.jpg

This is a pic from the guy I bought it off of flexing better in the front then I ever could and he said the front sway bar is connected here, no limiting straps yet in this pic though.
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj231/blackss2005/43161gj_20.jpg
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj231/blackss2005/3141kln_20.jpg

I say put the other arm back in and wheel it, see how you like it where it actually counts, not just flexing up on a rock or two. Out wheelin I bet you'll find you will get there.

Good to see another built WJ, are those iroks 36 or 37?

Here's mine, if you got any questions about your WJ in general, www.mallcrawlin.com is a Grand Cherokee specific wheelin community.

http://www.agitatedpancake.com/random/jeep/July%204-09/resized/DSC02266.jpg

I say put the other arm back in and wheel it, see how you like it where it actually counts, not just flexing up on a rock or two. Out wheelin I bet you'll find you will get there.

Good to see another built WJ, are those iroks 36 or 37?

Here's mine, if you got any questions about your WJ in general, www.mallcrawlin.com is a Grand Cherokee specific wheelin community.

http://www.agitatedpancake.com/random/jeep/July%204-09/resized/DSC02266.jpg

I'm hooking the other arm back up today and going to go wheeling later. It feels like it's going to flip over but I need to get used to it still and learn how far over I can safely put it. Not sure how to tell though without rolling it lol

They are Irok 36", I think I'll get 38" TSLs next though.

I am running a single radius arm on the left side. I did install heims on both ends and it flexes well. Not the best setup around but it does work. I plan to do a true 3 link when I swap to the v8.

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g312/crzyxj/windriverrun052.jpg
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g312/crzyxj/pathfidermay09042.jpg

What else could be limiting my uptravel in front? Nothing appears to be binding up. Bump stops are still way away from bottoming out.

Here's mine, if you got any questions about your WJ in general, www.mallcrawlin.com is a Grand Cherokee specific wheelin community.

http://www.agitatedpancake.com/random/jeep/July%204-09/resized/DSC02266.jpg

Oh, and yeah, I'm on that forum but BigDaveZJ is an asshat and keeps removing my pics saying that I am illegally wheeling in the areas the pics were taken. Funny thing is the original pics were taken on the original owners property and the other on my friends property. That forum is BS!

Out of curiosity, what does the frame side mount of the track bar look like?

what are the specs on that? Gears/lockers/ect. Is that a 44 front with some kind of high 9" rear? I've got a ZJ I'm going to build after I put a tranny in it and get it paid for. Its lifted 2" right now with just 31's on it. Nice to see some built grands on here!

These are the pics with the RU link removed, no sway bar
[http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj231/blackss2005/IMG_1766.jpg



I run the set-up you are talking about. Its ok but not the best. I first had rubber bushings in my set-up and it was horrible. I swapped everything out to R.E. joints and heims and it took the scary front axle wrap away.

I would get longer limit straps. In this pic the strap looks tight or damn close to it and there is plenty of spring droop left. I would get longer straps maybe 2-3" which will allow for more droop. Just my .02

Here is the droop from my front. I had to work some with the limit straps and have actually lessened my front drop since this pic was taken. I'm running some balding 38" SX's in the pic.

Out of curiosity, what does the frame side mount of the track bar look like?
It's the same style setup as on the axle
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj231/blackss2005/IMG_1750.jpg
what are the specs on that? Gears/lockers/ect. Is that a 44 front with some kind of high 9" rear? I've got a ZJ I'm going to build after I put a tranny in it and get it paid for. Its lifted 2" right now with just 31's on it. Nice to see some built grands on here!
4.56 gears, Aussie Lockers, Dana 44 front, Ford 9" rear with Currie high pinion 3rd member
I would get longer limit straps. In this pic the strap looks tight or damn close to it and there is plenty of spring droop left. I would get longer straps maybe 2-3" which will allow for more droop. Just my .02

The front straps have 2-3" left till they do anything. It's never drooped enough in the front yet to catch the straps. The rear strap was on the limit in this pic. I should make that one longer but won't that make the body lean over more?
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj231/blackss2005/IMG_1742.jpg

that is one sexy grand cherkey my friend

can anybody point me to a link where i can learn the difference between radius arms and control arms? :)

Single radius upper on the pass side (non diff) No shocks. Flex looks odd cause there are 26" roller tires in the back at this point. it would have went more but the jack was at its highest. Do you have bushings on both ends or a cartridge joint on one and bushing on the other. Swap in a heim on the frame side instead and youll get more flex

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t272/SHNIPE/Jeep%20Update%2010-16 /Dennis1.jpg (http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t272/SHNIPE/Jeep%20Update%2010-16/Dennis1.jpg?t=1250029051)

Single radius upper on the pass side (non diff) No shocks. Flex looks odd cause there are 26" roller tires in the back at this point. it would have went more but the jack was at its highest. Do you have bushings on both ends or a cartridge joint on one and bushing on the other. Swap in a heim on the frame side instead and youll get more flex

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t272/SHNIPE/Jeep%20Update%2010-16 /Dennis1.jpg (http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t272/SHNIPE/Jeep%20Update%2010-16/Dennis1.jpg?t=1250029051)

I've got Johnny Joints on the frame end, heim joints on the upper arm where it connects to the lower arms and black rubber bushings (assuming they rubber) on all four axle points. I may just do a 3 link and reuse my lower arms to get rid of the radius setup. They are around 37-38" long.

What else could be limiting my uptravel in front? Nothing appears to be binding up. Bump stops are still way away from bottoming out.

You also have to remember that you are only flexing the front up on something in your pics. In a lot of cases the rear will do most of the work when you are just "ramping". If you look at the pics that the previous owner posted, you'll notice that when the left front is stuffed, the right rear is also stuffed. My XJ does the same thing.

This is 34" Radius Arms, with Both Uppers attached. Stock UCA bushings
with Poly Bushings on both ends of the lower arms: 31" Long Front shocks.

This is pretty much maxed out.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e149/barillms/photo-61.jpg

Dude... Your front shocks are probably too short.
You need shocks in the neighborhood of 31-32" fully extended.

When sitting still on flat ground, there should only be about 4" of shock shaft showing. If you have 8" of shock shaft showing when sitting, you're shocks are almost fully extended sitting on the ground.

Dude... Your front shocks are probably too short.
You need shocks in the neighborhood of 31-32" fully extended.

His shocks are fine - they are 30" extended as I installed them. The original owner wanted 5" uptravel because he was daily driving this originally. Your pic also shows the opposite rear stuffed so that is how it makes the front fully flex out.

Just back onto the ramp or whatever and you'll be able to get the front to work harder and be able to see it flex more.