After last winter and freezing my nards off, I pledged to get my shop insulated and heated by this winter. Now summer is flying by and I need to get on it. I'm planning on using regular fiberglass rolls and sheetrock- the ceiling is going to be the biggest challenge.

I wanted to see if anybody has any better ideas or tips for getting it done. This is a pretty big shop - 2x6 stick built with metal shell. I plan on putting a good sized wood stove in - but have considered gas/oil burner. Take a look at what I'm working with and feel free to bounce ideas off me.

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z96/rippinyj/theshopandthejeep.jpg

This is last winter freezing my arse off even with a nepco heater - this winter I want to be tucked in up there nice and snug.

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z96/rippinyj/n1386094800_30215100_1338.jpg

If I were you I would use a product like ICYNENE for at least the roof, alot of architects are starting to specify this type of insulation as opposed to the roll especially for the roof as it is much more efficient. IMO

If cost is not object I would use rigid spray foam. Great R value, eliminates air infiltration and has a nearly constant R value as temperature drops. Make sure all your wiring and plumbing is done before hand. This stuff is a major pain if you want to retrofit a wire or pipe. Good thing about 2x6 walls is that you don't need to fill the cavity so you'll have some dead air space.

If cost is a concern, which is likely, I would use the wet spray in cellolose for the walls. It has an adhesive that keeps it from sliding down over time. Excellent R value, better than fiberflass at stopping air infiltrastion and has a good R value as temp drops. Again, make sure your wiring and plumbing is done first. This is pretty easy to work around if you need to pull additional wires or pipes in the future.

My absolute last choice would be fiberglass.

For your ceiling.... have you looked at metal panels? They go up fast and cover large areas quickly and are light and easy to work with. No taping, no painting and you choose the color (likely white) when you install.

I would blow in large quanitities of loose cellolose in the ceiling. It's cheap, good R value and goes in fast. You can rent the machines at a lot of rental places, lumber yards and box stores.

ICYNENE is an open cell product. For the roof of a metal building, I would reccomend a closed cell product so that it will resist moisture and condensation. Unfortunately, spray foam of any kind is very costly.

My father in law used sheets of foil faced "Thermax" and nailed them to the bottom of the studs with taped seams. This system works well and reflects alot of light back down into the shop. His thinking was that if he wanted to add more insulation in the future, he could use batts on top of the foam board.

yea I kicked the idea of spray foam around - and am still considering it. How hard is it to do it yourself?

I was going to go with thin sheetrock.. but Metal panels for the ceiling ...hummm With the spacing up there that may be just the ticket - verses sagging sheetrock. but if I use foam probably just spray it up there on the underside and forget about the ceiling work - much easier -

yea I kicked the idea of spray foam around - and am still considering it. How hard is it to do it yourself?

I was going to go with thin sheetrock.. but Metal panels for the ceiling ...hummm With the spacing up there that may be just the ticket - verses sagging sheetrock. but if I use foam probably just spray it up there on the underside and forget about the ceiling work - much easier -

Hold onto your shorts because rigid spray foam is likely to cost more than the original pole building cost. The nice part is you'll be able to heat it quickly and cheaply.

We did our basement last year and it made a HUGE difference.

I'm all about doing it right as cheaply as possible. I'm probably way off the mark here ...but by cheep I mean around $3000 maybe a bit more. Don't laugh!

Closed cell poly foam in our area cost $1/sf per inch. Which will be expensive. Also, dont forget that by insulating the roof instead of the ceiling will force you to heat a much larger volume and since heat rises that means it will take longer for you to feel it down at the slab.

My Father-in-law used 2" which yields an R-13 and his shop is toasty

http://building.dow.com/na/en/products/images/tuffr.jpg

Thanks all! I'm gonna go with the metal panels (great idea!) on the ceiling and a combination of plywood and sheetrock for the walls. Plywood by the work benches to hang tools ect..

I'll do some pricing on the foam board and fiberglass rolls and figure out the cheapest route per R value.

I'll keep you posted as this comes together. Feel free to keep any ideas coming my way.

Be sure and price blown in cellulose for the ceiling.

You'd be amazed at just how effective just stapling plastic sheeting across the rafter is.

I put a "tent" up inside my shop as 3100 sq ft is kinda expensive to insulate, especially as it's two stories.

When it gets fawked up, it's cheap and easy to replace.

When looking at furnaces, unless you have an inexhaustible supply of wood, diesel is cheapest and most efficient.

I heat about half of the first floor space with a 115K salamander burning diesel fuel and used oil. Fans are your friend.

I would use the plastic along with the plywood and sheetrock to create a vapor barrier....its sure to help keep the moisture out.

I would use the plastic along with the plywood and sheetrock to create a vapor barrier....its sure to help keep the moisture out.

You need to make sure you have good airflow on both sides of the plastic, otherwise, the wood will rot and you might not see it until it's too late.

I'm pleased with my $200 investment in plastic that can be put up and taken down or thrown away and started over with again.

What's the pricing like on the pannels vs. sheetrock, and do they provide the neccesssary fire barrier between a garage and living area?

As for attic insulation. Mine worked out at about 1/2 the cost for blown in vs. batts.. and the blown in can be stacked right up to the underside of the roof. The labor involved is very cheap too.

Cost of me buying pink insulation for the addition and installing it myself was appx $1500, price of having someone come in and get hte insulation, plastic, staples, goo, expanding foam.. and so on.. right to inspection ready.. was $1450.

After talking in depth with a couple companies that do the insulation (spray foam) they suggested Icylene for the wall and ceiling of the building and then blown fiberglass on top of the Icylene on the ceiling. This is considering you are going with the metal ceiling and not insulating you roof. For example 1000sq ft is about $3500 for icylene and fiberglass blown insulation.

We're going with 2" used 4x8 sheet insulate. Look all over Ebay and Craigslist. This stuff comes out of large jobs that might have a couple of holes in it but otherwise is in perfect shape. Most of it is either tinfoiled backed or white. There is a guy kinda local to us that sells it at 5 bucks a sheet. I need to get a ceiling up in our 1500 ft shop before winter. I was in the same situation and froze my butt off working on the KOH car.

Its a bummer you cant go spray foam Doug

Thanks fellas

Did you put that shop together yourself? How much money do you have into it? I think it looks pretty damned good.

A guy I know in Wisconsin has built a small (about a third or more the size of his entire shop) heated and insulated enclosure inside his shop building. He figured that he didn't have to heat the entire building if he wasn't going to be working in the entire space. He's got it built as a drive through, with enough haeated and insulated space to park at least a dozen cars, 12 foot ceiling, running water, T.V., bar, fridge, and recycled bowling alley counter tops. It's a great setup.

My shop has the same style construction, and I insulated a couple years back using this:

http://www.insulation4less.com/Insulation4lessProduct-1-Prodex-Total-Insulation.aspx

It appears that your trusses are 4' on center, and factoring in snow load you really don't want a lot of weight going there, (me too) so that is why I chose the Prodex...

Since it is foil wrapped it does reflect a lot of light, acts as a vapor barrier and since it is at the bottom of the trusses it lowers the 'heat barrier level' to the bottom of the trusses instead of the roofline.

I heat with a torpedo heater to get up to temp, and wood to hold it there, and it does just fine. I insulated my whole shop with 5 rolls,and I am happy with the cost/results.

Good luck with whatever you choose.

r/

eric

A guy I know in Wisconsin has built a small (about a third or more the size of his entire shop) heated and insulated enclosure inside his shop building.

I'd look into doing that, too. Something about the size of a 2 car garage.

Where do you live?

Down here, insulating the ceiling and not the underside of the metal roof is a bad idea. In the summer, you end up with high moisture levels in the attic, condensation, etc. Rusts the roof, rots the wood, ruins the insulation. Metal buildings that are inhabited usually get plastic-wrapped batts between the purlins and fiberglass or blown above the ceiling.

Wire in some ceiling fans while you can. That expensive heat will just sit up there if you don't.

My building is basically the same (but smaller), a wood frame pole shed with metal siding. I built 2x6 walls around the outside and one 2x4 partition wall in the middle of the building. I also framed up the ceiling with 2x4s on the trusses. Fiberglass batts (r-38 on top, R-19 on the outside walls, and r-13 in the partition wall) and vapor barrier, covered by 7/16" OSB and painted the whole mess bright white. This was a rebuild of the existing shop, which had blown-in cellulose on the ceiling, no studs on the walls but they had 2" foam boards behind drywall nailed to the walls. The difference in heating and cooling is so much better than before. It works so nicely, even with a very leaky overhead door. Once the slab was up to temp (that took a few weeks since I finished it in the winter) it held temps much longer and the heater ran 2/3 less than it did before.

So what I'm saying is that 2" foam isn't going to do you much good, imho. Especially on the ceiling.

Andy

Be sure and price blown in cellulose for the ceiling.

Not in any building I'll ever own. I know a family that lost their home to a smoldering cellulose insulation fire. Started in the attic and as they ran out of the house it blew the ceiling down into the living space - the entire hose is now full of burning insullation and rubble and the whole house went up. This wasn't like a fire that works from room to room, this was like 30 seconds notice and then the whole house was a fireball...

Not in any building I'll ever own. I know a family that lost their home to a smoldering cellulose insulation fire. Started in the attic and as they ran out of the house it blew the ceiling down into the living space - the entire hose is now full of burning insullation and rubble and the whole house went up. This wasn't like a fire that works from room to room, this was like 30 seconds notice and then the whole house was a fireball...

Had to have been blown in a long time ago.

Modern cellulose has a fire retarder sprayed on during the manufacturing process. I had a whole pile of it left over after a remodel and tried to burn it. I had to douse it in diesel fuel to get finally get it to light. Even then it didn't burn all that well.

Had to have been blown in a long time ago.

Modern cellulose has a fire retarder sprayed on during the manufacturing process. I had a whole pile of it left over after a remodel and tried to burn it. I had to douse it in diesel fuel to get finally get it to light. Even then it didn't burn all that well.


The house was over 20 years old. The think an electrical short started the fire. The cellulose didn't really burn at first, but it did keep the heat in until eventually the whole attic flashed into flame.

I'm sure the modern stuff is perfectly safe, its just not going in my attic!