A while back there was a guy on the net that had a anti-wrap bar similar to the sams anti-wrap bar but made from tractor end-links. (tube with male and female threaded farm heims)

I have yet to find the page still on the net but I really need to do somthing about my da*m axle wrap.

I have tried stiffer springs and add a leafs but I still get the vibes from wrap while taking off from a stand still. Drive shaft angles are good and I am running a cv.

I Remember how to make it and it shouldnt be that much of a task BUT... my question is to any of those who have done this kind of set-up, How has it held up?

The tolerances are pretty good on the two end links I have purchased and they are greasable and are pretty da*m stought..

The rig doesnt get much street use and only sees about 500 miles a year and thats all pretty much trail use.

Also is there a preferance on which way the shackle should be for the bar?

I have seen the shackle on top of the bar and where the bar is over the shackle crossmember. Should I basicly mimic the shackle set up in this way to big photo?

http://www.sams4x4store.com/images/HDTractionbarDSCN1809.jpg

Thanks for your help and info in advance. This is really the only thing holding me up in getting my rig on the trail.

Have you tried the.....


SEARCH!!!!!

It does work ya know.:flipoff2:

Really? All I got was the link that is shut down now. Its kind of hard to get info if it isnt there any more.

Mainly was asking how it has been long term.

I did not see any of that in my previous attemps with the search.


Thanks for your help though.

:flipoff2:

Maybe if that picture was a bit smaller Id look at it. Search for traction bars, you will find what you need.

Buddy of mine is using the tractor joints set up. Two years now and he hasn't had a problem.
Put the shackle below though. I would think that is best because as the axle twists, it will turn the traction bar up, thus pulling on the shackle. It would seem to me that this is better than having it try and puch against a shackle if it were mounted the otherway around.:confused:
SEARCH works awesome though, try it again refine it better or something. I came up with a quite a few links when I did it. :flipoff2: But hey what do I know, I am just a newbie here, but I have used the search A LOT

try this link:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=261411&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending

Posting this just to help with ideas....Did a 2-link using heim joints and building a bolt-in cross member. The truss on the axle ties into the diff ring. A little excessive for axle-wrap, but it obviously worked....

Good luck....

.

John Deere heims suck ass!!Spend the money40.00 to 50.00$ per heim and get quality heims from McMaster Carr or Spidertrax or where ever and do it right the first time .

wrookie,

how long have you bee running that setup? does it really work? i have tried several links above the axle while running a spring over and none worked.

High5, I have run mine like this for over a year with a big motor, no wrap problems whatsoever and no loss off flex...

Have you wheeled in Gilmer? Seems like one of the Chaos guys (Scott) was talking about you..

tpijeep,

i know the style bar like you run works because that is what i run too. i was just questioning wrookies setup. i'm not saying his doesn't work but like i said, i've tried setups with links above the axle like that and they did not.

i have never been to gilmer. i really need to go out there just to check it out. some people i run with who have been say it is not all that so i really havn't made any priority to get out there. who is scott from chaos? where are they out of? if i have met him or any of them i don't remember off hand.

High5,

Okay I was wondering if you were having problems with the setup like mine.. guess not.. :)

I need to work on this typing stuff, I meant Gardendale, AL and Scott is in the CHAOS club over there. He made a comment that my Jeep reminded him of ole High5. Didn't know if that was you are not. I was talking about Gilmer to somebody and typed the wrong thing!

Have a good one!

Originally posted by wrookie
Posting this just to help with ideas....Did a 2-link using heim joints and building a bolt-in cross member. The truss on the axle ties into the diff ring. A little excessive for axle-wrap, but it obviously worked....

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=852452

Good luck....

Doesn't that limit your flex? How did you get the bar to move back enough so when the axle moves back, it doesn't stop the spring from flexing?

Originally posted by High5
wrookie,

how long have you bee running that setup? does it really work? i have tried several links above the axle while running a spring over and none worked.

Originally posted by JeepinIan
Doesn't that limit your flex? How did you get the bar to move back enough so when the axle moves back, it doesn't stop the spring from flexing?

Ran that setup for 3 years (recently sold the Jeep) and it worked well. The truss had a slight rear pitch allowing the links to be longer and then tied into the diff ring. A couple of other guys here run similar setups and are happy. If I lost any flex, it was too insignificant to measure or notice.

Tractor links sleeved inside DOM. The frame mount is 1/4" 2x3. I cut a hole out and sleeved the other half of the threaded link into it. That way if all I have to do is replace the ends. Nothing bent or broke, springs are fine and no more hop.

http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/30861a39/bc/My+Photos/Traction+bar+2.jpg?bcZwMs9ASKY6m2Se
http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/30861a39/bc/My+Photos/Traction+bar.jpg?bcZwMs9AK8OPNU1I

the two upper link setup helps, but the ladder bar is better. One thing the link setup does is help keep from bending a main leaf. It locates the axle fore/aft, so the axle cant move forward to bend a leaf on one side.....:D

TPI Jeep:

I have a similar setup as your anti-wrap bar, but with the bar above the shackle. One problem that I have been having with mine is serious anti-squat on the side with the bar mounted on. I was attributing this to the angle of the bar and figured that the only way to flatten out the angle was to mount the shackle above the bar.

My question is do you have any noticeable lifting on the side that the bar is on? Mine will lift my Jeep up a couple of inches on one side when I give it a little gas in low range.

Originally posted by siebert
TPI Jeep:

I have a similar setup as your anti-wrap bar, but with the bar above the shackle. One problem that I have been having with mine is serious anti-squat on the side with the bar mounted on. I was attributing this to the angle of the bar and figured that the only way to flatten out the angle was to mount the shackle above the bar.

My question is do you have any noticeable lifting on the side that the bar is on? Mine will lift my Jeep up a couple of inches on one side when I give it a little gas in low range.

I have had the shackle above and below the mount, with the bar above the mount I noticed more lifting under HARD acceleration. With the bar below I really do not notice much lifting at all, but it does NOT squat! It seems to hold the body level and put a lot of down pressure on the tires, cause the really hook up with 450hp on them..

here is mine, used the tractor links cut the ends off of one end and they are doing the job great and holding up just fine.

It cost me $50 bucks and I made the shackle end out of some old parts I had araound.

BlueYJ

Originally posted by TPIJeep


I have had the shackle above and below the mount, with the bar above the mount I noticed more lifting under HARD acceleration. With the bar below I really do not notice much lifting at all, but it does NOT squat! It seems to hold the body level and put a lot of down pressure on the tires, cause the really hook up with 450hp on them..

To backup TPI. I run a Sam's style bar. My drivers side rear corner can pick up as much as 3" with it on under hard acceleration or dragging something when I have TONS of traction.

Its not squatting though... the entire body is twisting from torque since so much more traction goes to the "pavement" now vs having the springs wrap and wheels hop.

So is it better to have the bar on top of the shackle or below?

Or it really doesnt matter?

There is the next problem I found though.

The Ladder bar I have at 33" long on a 97.5" wheelbase may be affecting my flex under "real world" wheeling. Meaning I can score high RTI wise, but I tend to pic tires in the front end, specially the drivers front while doing more than idling. (meaning I am gassing it through something)

I've been told it is because I have too much anti-squat for a short wheelbase. And it kinda made sense, but whenever I try to understand anti-squat I get a headache.

I just made one this weekend out of a 78 F-150 Radius Arm for a friends Bronco.

Mocked up the C portion of the axle on the ground and tacked it in place. Welded it tight and then bolted everything down tight and tacked the C and upper mount in place.

welded the axle side tight but forgot to weld the frame mount tight (fixed now).

It eliminated all his wrap and cost us about a hours worth of work (not counting fixing it after the tacks broke on the trail)

Radius arms are everywhere and it works good. You could easliy put a hinge on the frame side but we did not. Alaska does not require as much flex as you all "seem" to need.

Originally posted by "D"
So is it better to have the bar on top of the shackle or below?

Or it really doesnt matter?

it can work both ways but i feel that it works better when the bar end comes up over the shackle. why? well simply grab a pen or pincil (or anything for that matter) and hold each end in you fingers (one had on one end and the other on the other). now pretend the pen or pincil is the shackle and exert the same directional forces on it as it would see on the rig. the wrap bar end wants to lift while going forward in a wrap situation so if the bar is above the shackle then it is pulling up on it and if it is below then it is pushing up on it. now if you play around with it for a while with the pen (shackle) at different angles you'll see. that is how i decided and it makes sense to me and mine works. it seems to mee that the degree of anti wrap control is the same witht he shackle at an angle as it is straight up and down with the bar coming in over the shackle where it is different with the bar coming in below the shackle. anyway play with the setup yourself for a while and see what you decide.

BlueYJ: Like your setup...

Originally posted by Alaska ZJ
I just made one this weekend out of a 78 F-150 Radius Arm for a friends Bronco.

Mocked up the C portion of the axle on the ground and tacked it in place. Welded it tight and then bolted everything down tight and tacked the C and upper mount in place.

welded the axle side tight but forgot to weld the frame mount tight (fixed now).

It eliminated all his wrap and cost us about a hours worth of work (not counting fixing it after the tacks broke on the trail)

Radius arms are everywhere and it works good. You could easliy put a hinge on the frame side but we did not. Alaska does not require as much flex as you all "seem" to need.

Been down that road. I personally blew up a radius arm, and have seen another one to it too.:(

Originally posted by Travis Waldher
There is the next problem I found though.

The Ladder bar I have at 33" long on a 97.5" wheelbase may be affecting my flex under "real world" wheeling. Meaning I can score high RTI wise, but I tend to pic tires in the front end, specially the drivers front while doing more than idling. (meaning I am gassing it through something)

I've been told it is because I have too much anti-squat for a short wheelbase. And it kinda made sense, but whenever I try to understand anti-squat I get a headache.

Antisquat is when you gas it and the rear end lifts under acceleration.

Originally posted by Aggro


Antisquat is when you gas it and the rear end lifts under acceleration.

hmm... kay... don't think I have that problem. The drivers rear of my jeep lifts, the passenger rear of my jeep drops when I hammer the gas hard. I assume antisquat causes both sides to lift somewhat equally?

It definitely can differ from side to side. Traction bar on the driver or passenger side? driver I assume.

Originally posted by Keith


Been down that road. I personally blew up a radius arm, and have seen another one to it too.:(

Well I guess if that happens we will not do that again. It has only been on one wheeling trip thus far so time will tell.

What works for one might not work for another.

I run 5/8's heims on my 5 link and I have yet to have a problem. Grant I probably dont;' need a 5 link , but it is my first coil lift and I dont want to break out and kill me on the high way. I got my heims from a tractor store 2 left and right for $20. I still keep a spare while wheeling, but have yet to break one. I dont run a ladder bar. run two cross the top and two one the bottom and one panhard bar.
can give you pics at my email.
layters

Originally posted by Alaska ZJ


Well I guess if that happens we will not do that again. It has only been on one wheeling trip thus far so time will tell.

What works for one might not work for another.

I think for me it was 38's x 350 x low gears x 5000rpm x sidestep

Blamo!:eek:

Originally posted by Travis Waldher


hmm... kay... don't think I have that problem. The drivers rear of my jeep lifts, the passenger rear of my jeep drops when I hammer the gas hard. I assume antisquat causes both sides to lift somewhat equally?

Yer talkin about torque flex.

Kerry wrote an article about his 1/4 ellipticle set up. It has alot of info about anti-squat, torque flex, and flex steer. It's kinda long but, maybe it'll help. Check it out.
http://www.jeepaholics.com/tech/quarterellip