The planets finally aligned and I brought home a truck load of Salisbury axles yesterday.

While I'd prefer to avoid all of the discussion on the merits (or lack thereof) of the Salisbury, I do wonder just how bad the drum brakes are relative to the cost of the parts and the incredibly high price of the time to convert to discs.

As you might imagine, I have piles of parts from various vintages of Rovers with Disc brakes. I also have the flanges with the caliper mounts so if I really wanted to, I could weld the disc flanges to the Sals housings (one of them I brought home is BRANDFAWKINGNEW, I don't really want to cut that one up).

So, is it really absolutely necessary to do the conversion? This axle is going on a dedicated trail rig/trailer queen.

PT

Probably not worth it. The 109 and 110 Hi Caps had drum brakes and probably had to stop bigger loads than you'll ever need to.

Now, tell me about this "truck load of Salisbury axles" whereof you speak. http://www.council-of-elrond.com/forums/images/smilies/drool.gif

your welcome PT....:)

The planets finally aligned and I brought home a truck load of Salisbury axles yesterday.

While I'd prefer to avoid all of the discussion on the merits (or lack thereof) of the Salisbury, I do wonder just how bad the drum brakes are relative to the cost of the parts and the incredibly high price of the time to convert to discs.

As you might imagine, I have piles of parts from various vintages of Rovers with Disc brakes. I also have the flanges with the caliper mounts so if I really wanted to, I could weld the disc flanges to the Sals housings (one of them I brought home is BRANDFAWKINGNEW, I don't really want to cut that one up).

So, is it really absolutely necessary to do the conversion? This axle is going on a dedicated trail rig/trailer queen.

PT

Land rover drums stop better than land rover disks at stopping. I don't care how butthurt people get, thats the truth (at least in my experience). So if you do it, it's to save weight, or because you run in a lot of mud. If you don't care about weight, I wouldn't bother.

If I cared about weight, I wouldn't have bought three Salisbury axles and two one-ton fronts!

Kyle-I'd found them and was pursuing them when the guy who had them fell off the face of the earth. The funny thing is that the price on eBay was about half what he was asking on Craiglist!

They are US military surplus. Two of them look lightly used the other one is brandy new! The fronts have me a little confused. Keith said they were ten-spline and they may well be, but the outers are Hella beefy.

AFIRover has already spoken for the pair I was gonna flog off so they aren't any available now.

It only took me what, three years to find these and I got three for less than what one would have cost from ECR (and, two of these are complete, drum to drum, diff cover to flange). Not to mention the jerking around I got from Mike over two years.

I know PT i was messin with ya;)

Did you gey my PM?

Land rover drums stop better than land rover disks at stopping. I don't care how butthurt people get, thats the truth

NADA and Stage One drums brakes are great. Everyone and their brother busted my balls about not converting to disks on my 109 but I'm glad I didn't. They stop just fine. The best $3000 I ever saved.

NADA and Stage One drums brakes are great. Everyone and their brother busted my balls about not converting to disks on my 109 but I'm glad I didn't. They stop just fine. The best $3000 I ever saved.

Great. By the way, now that this has happened, the chances of that front 60 I got from you getting put into a Rover are much better.

Sadly, my friend who picked it up from you is no longer with us.

Cheers,
PT

Congrats PT!

I will stop harassing my sources for you.

Did you get three rears?

As far as discs, there is nothing wrong with the stock set up other than the typically downsides of drum brakes. The disc brackets are $75 EACH and have to be lightly machined, but that is it. Non-abs hubs and whatever you want for rotors and calipers/pads and that is it.

If I cared about weight, I wouldn't have bought three Salisbury axles and two one-ton fronts!Early 1 ton ENV's?

I'd found them and was pursuing them when the guy who had them fell off the face of the earth. The funny thing is that the price on eBay was about half what he was asking on Craiglist!Bugger! I really need to keep a better watch on ebay. :shaking:

Oh well, I still need to find a 1 Ton gearbox anyway.

Sadly, my friend who picked it up from you is no longer with us.

Sorry to hear that. He was a character.

Sorry to hear that. He was a character.

Tell me about it! I really miss him and if I get to see him in the afterlife, I'm gonna slap him for killing himself.

He left a lot of folks pissed off at him.

Congrats PT!

I will stop harassing my sources for you.

Did you get three rears?

As far as discs, there is nothing wrong with the stock set up other than the typically downsides of drum brakes. The disc brackets are $75 EACH and have to be lightly machined, but that is it. Non-abs hubs and whatever you want for rotors and calipers/pads and that is it.

The rears, two complete, one new. Two fronts that I still haven't fully identified.

I've ordered new wheel cylinders, they were less than $10! New shoes are on their way from Raybestos, I got employee pricing on them, direct deduction from my wife's paycheck even:D.

I'm in agreement, drums can/do have better stopping power. Larger frictional area, more pad/shoe surface.
But that also depends on how the rest of the brake system is set up. If putting in a vehicle that had disk brakes, you will need to (or at least should) fit a combination valve for rear drum brakes, and make sure the rest of the hydraulic brake system is laid out properly.
But, you probably know all that already :)

Land rover drums stop better than land rover disks at stopping.

Like that's saying much:laughing:


Drums almost always stop better than disks until you start talking about really bling set-ups, disks are the brake of choice because of their wet-weather braking, fade resistance and weight advantages.

I'd either leave the drums as they are, just freshen them up, or upgrade to real brakes, not Rover junk simply because you have it laying around.

I'm in agreement, drums can/do have better stopping power. Larger frictional area, more pad/shoe surface.
But that also depends on how the rest of the brake system is set up. If putting in a vehicle that had disk brakes, you will need to (or at least should) fit a combination valve for rear drum brakes, and make sure the rest of the hydraulic brake system is laid out properly.
But, you probably know all that already :)

Thanx JC! The truck this is going into is a really beat-up RRC that's gonna get torn up more.

I'm probably gonna retain the master cylinder and ABS pump, but dump the ECU and the rest of the stuff for ABS, neither the fronts nor the rears are set up for ABS-LOL. I'll be the only person on Earth with Defender calipers and RRC ABS master and pump!

The rears, two complete, one new. Two fronts that I still haven't fully identified.If they look like this:
http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss215/rover_driver/RoverParts/Drivetrain/ENV/ENV_unit.jpg
http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss215/rover_driver/RoverParts/Drivetrain/ENV/env_housing.jpg
and have bolt on swivels, then they are either 109 1-ton or 109FC axles (the FC had a wider track I think).
You can tell me to shut up if I'm telling you something you already know. :D

I thought the Forward Control axles all had integral swivel balls.

I'm trying to find a picture of an axle from a Shorland to compare. They are not ENVs, I suspect they came off one-ton Wolves or one-ton 110s.

I thought the Forward Control axles all had integral swivel balls.The 101's did. 99% sure the 109's did not. At least none of my IIa manuals show them with integral.

I'm trying to find a picture of an axle from a Shorland to compare. They are not ENVs, I suspect they came off one-ton Wolves or one-ton 110s.The ENV's were used some on early Shorlands I think since they entered service in the mid 60's when Rover was still using the ENV axle.
So are the swivels integral or bolt on?
Do they have Salisbury diffs?
If Salisbury diff and bolt on swivels then more than likely from a Wolf, though the 1-tons 109's had Salisbury fronts on the SIII Suffix B.
If Salisbury diffs and integral swivels then they are probably 101 fronts.

Come on man, post some photos.

They look like standard Rover axles with Defender calipers, solid rotors and huge drive flanges.

Pics to come.

A pile, just like I said:
http://i606.photobucket.com/albums/tt141/ptschram/_522.jpg

The drive flange end of the front:
http://i606.photobucket.com/albums/tt141/ptschram/_523.jpg

If I cared about weight, I wouldn't have bought three Salisbury axles and two one-ton fronts!

Kyle-I'd found them and was pursuing them when the guy who had them fell off the face of the earth. The funny thing is that the price on eBay was about half what he was asking on Craiglist!

They are US military surplus. Two of them look lightly used the other one is brandy new! The fronts have me a little confused. Keith said they were ten-spline and they may well be, but the outers are Hella beefy.

AFIRover has already spoken for the pair I was gonna flog off so they aren't any available now.

It only took me what, three years to find these and I got three for less than what one would have cost from ECR (and, two of these are complete, drum to drum, diff cover to flange). Not to mention the jerking around I got from Mike over two years.

PT, I tried hard for you. I would've liked to see them go.....:)

Those front axles look identical to my FFR 90’s front axle. What size bolts hold the balls to the housing? I just redid the brakes on my ’87 FFR 90 and the rears lock up before the front if there is nothing in the rear of the truck (kinda scary on a gravel roads at speed) They brake better than any toyota or chevy setup I’ve ever run. I can only imagine Sal brakes are even better.

PT, I tried hard for you. I would've liked to see them go.....:)

Sometimes the planets align and sometimes they don't!

I'm really happy I got these and that two of them are complete-lugnut to lugnut.

Mmmmm...Land Rover porn :)

CONGRATS! Now you have no excuses to get that truck done...and will AFI ever gonna finish his truck? Gary? Buehler? :flipoff2:

CONGRATS! Now you have no excuses to get that truck done...and will AFI ever gonna finish his truck? Gary? Buehler? :flipoff2:

That truck? Which one is that? I've gone on a serious buying spree this spring/summer and have enough projects for the rest of my life!

As if this isn't enough, I have now received a deposit for my second 300 TDi swap. At this rate, I won't get another chance to wrench on my own truck 'til the next presidential election! I'm also backed up on head gasket jobs, I finally got my back-ordered parts and am rockin' and rollin'.

That truck? Which one is that? I've gone on a serious buying spree this spring/summer and have enough projects for the rest of my life!

As if this isn't enough, I have now received a deposit for my second 300 TDi swap. At this rate, I won't get another chance to wrench on my own truck 'til the next presidential election! I'm also backed up on head gasket jobs, I finally got my back-ordered parts and am rockin' and rollin'.

Ha..."that" truck...I hear ya...well, at least you can practice with others' :flipoff2:

You got two pair of axles out of 1993 and down Defender 110s. I would bet they came out of Ex-MOD trucks out of canada.

Fronts are scrap metal. For one thing you need the narrow front radius arms to run them and they are 10 spline, but you could reuse the AEU23XX "1 ton" CVs and convert to 24 spline diffs with upgraded axles I guess -- turd polish, yup still a turd.

Awesome on all the backed up work, great place to be.

My late 70s leaf sals and late 80s coiled sals both have the same diameter and width drums. I converted to the same on the front, along with hydro boost. They will lock up a 4700lb truck on dry pavement at 35mph.

You got two pair of axles

And one brand new rear with no outers.


Fronts are scrap metal. For one thing you need the narrow front radius arms to run them and they are 10 spline, but you could reuse the AEU23XX "1 ton" CVs and convert to 24 spline diffs with upgraded axles I guess -- turd polish, yup still a turd.

The housings are the same dimensions as all the rest of the fronts I have, they fit the later bushings. If they were the narrow radius arms/bushings, I'd still have the ability to put these parts on a later housing.

I've already found the parts to convert to 24 spline, but I'm not sure what I'm gonna do for the fronts or when. I'd like to use these outers on a D60 front. More options than I expected.

You got two pair of axles out of 1993 and down Defender 110s. I would bet they came out of Ex-MOD trucks out of canada.

Fronts are scrap metal. For one thing you need the narrow front radius arms to run them and they are 10 spline, but you could reuse the AEU23XX "1 ton" CVs and convert to 24 spline diffs with upgraded axles I guess -- turd polish, yup still a turd.

If you had any Idea of the condition of the trucks the MOD send to Alberta you would be appalled. They basically send the soon to be retired, worthless crap, we dont want it back when you are done with it, beat to shit trucks to Canada.
They are cheap but beat. and all the axles are 10 splines!

IMHO those front axles are really worth using...bigger brakes and swivel housings. Sure you can find stronger CVs but those old style 1 ton CVs are better than anything else Rover used except maybe the ones in 101's. You can swap in heavy duty axles and a 23 spline diff and you are good. I would go thru them though and replace seals etc. I have one on my 110 and it uses the wide radius arms.

the swivel housing is the reason to use these axles. Strongest LR used. Makes the other parts live longer.

the swivel housing is the reason to use these axles. Strongest LR used. Makes the other parts live longer.

Is there any reason not to use the later housing that I have that is already prepped with a sewer cap? I measured again and sure enough, Ron was right, these housings have the narrow radius arm mounts. I don't think the advantage of supposedly better articulation with the narrow arms is sufficient reason to source a pair of radius arms.

I resolved the issue I left the voicemail message for you. Looks like we'll be converting to a manual to ease the project along.

Is there any reason not to use the later housing that I have that is already prepped with a sewer cap? I measured again and sure enough, Ron was right, these housings have the narrow radius arm mounts. I don't think the advantage of supposedly better articulation with the narrow arms is sufficient reason to source a pair of radius arms.

I resolved the issue I left the voicemail message for you. Looks like we'll be converting to a manual to ease the project along.

PT You can bolt the swivel housings from the old to the new no mods.

I've got several of these axle sets....as rolling chassis if anyone else is after them give me a shout. Rather not take them apart, or ship them which is probably why they are still here. Just no time. Then again I could really use the real estate more effectively if they were gone.

Pt...like most others agree, the rear drums are very fine. The front discs on the other hand are pretty fawkin feeble.

Do you still need 300Tdi mounts or just the location template?

I've got several of these axle sets....as rolling chassis if anyone else is after them give me a shout. Rather not take them apart, or ship them which is probably why they are still here. Just no time. Then again I could really use the real estate more effectively if they were gone.

Pt...like most others agree, the rear drums are very fine. The front discs on the other hand are pretty fawkin feeble.

Do you still need 300Tdi mounts or just the location template?

Both! The engine arrives late this week.

I'm curious about the front brakes as they have the larger pistons/pads, but solid rotors. I'd think they would have more clamping force due to the larger pistons, more friction surface from the larger pads, but less heat dissipation due to the solid rotors.

One pair of these are going on a '93 SWB with a modified ABS (well, no ABS, just the electrically driven hydraulic assist). I'll have to see if the RRC calipers will bolt to the defender swivels. The RRC currently has Imperial calipers on it.

Both! The engine arrives late this week.

I'm curious about the front brakes as they have the larger pistons/pads, but solid rotors. I'd think they would have more clamping force due to the larger pistons, more friction surface from the larger pads, but less heat dissipation due to the solid rotors.

One pair of these are going on a '93 SWB with a modified ABS (well, no ABS, just the electrically driven hydraulic assist). I'll have to see if the RRC calipers will bolt to the defender swivels. The RRC currently has Imperial calipers on it.

There are two bolt sizes for the caliper to swivel bolts. 7/16" and 12mm and some brakes have more material around those bolt holes.
A little trimming and drilling is the worst case, best case they bolt straight up.

There are two bolt sizes for the caliper to swivel bolts. 7/16" and 12mm and some brakes have more material around those bolt holes.
A little trimming and drilling is the worst case, best case they bolt straight up.

I've found that just drilling the bolt holes is enough when I've encountered it. I just wanted to make sure that these calipers aren't extra-special :flipoff2:

Once again, a project stalls just as the parts are acquired. This week is spent fencing as the county doesn't seem to want to believe me that the vast majority of the trucks around here belong to me. It's a good thing I have a new design engineer and fabricator working for me. In typical fabricator work ethic fashion. he doesn't have transportation to the shop so I have o go get him this morning-argh! Employees...