I am planning on adding a roll cage on the inside of my RRC. What is the best way to attach it? I assume that just bolting it to the body will add only minimal protection and only for low impact.

My problem is how do I attach it to the frame, through the body, and still have a relatively sealed car. Or if the solution is to bolt it through the body wont the stress from having part of the body attached directly to the frame and part indirectly (body bushings) cause problems?

Matt.

Replace the rubber body mounts with solid ones, go through the floor and weld it to the frame, plate in the holes with sheet-metal, apply 3M seam sealer and enjoy.

Solid body mounts wont cause damage? I always assumed rubber mounts were there for more than comfort.

Where do I get them or do I make them? I would rather make them.

Matt

I'm trying to be as kind as I can.

If you are asking these sorts of questions, it might be best for you to do a lot more research on the topic, or consult someone who has been involved in rollcage construction in the past with success.

I know that I do a lot more math than the vast majority of Pirates when it comes to rollcages, but I don't want to hurt myself.

PT,

I have found a lot of information about the design of the cage above the body. I have not been successful finding good information about how to connect it to the frame while keeping the body mostly intact. I figured this would be the place to get the right info. I know a lot of people who have built their cages but they dont inspire confidence when I ask questions.

I figured that connection to the frame is just as important as the top side.

One of the reputable shops here said that if I wanted to just have a cage inside they just mount it to the body. I know that you will say that they are idiots and I agree. But searching as shown me that alot of people feel that attaching to the body is acceptable. Even fiberglass bodys. That is why I am here.

I don't plan on rolling it but if I do I want the cage to be able to hold up and not remove itself from the body. I also know that the body will not survive if I do roll. But that will be the point when I start a truggy

I never even thought of sold body mounts. It would solve many problems but I was concerned with flex. When I used to guide mt bike tours and we would use a van as a sag wagon we would occasionally break windows from too much flex and that was with rubber body mounts. I know that Rover frames are much stiffer.

Matt.

PT,

I have found a lot of information about the design of the cage above the body. I have not been successful finding good information about how to connect it to the frame while keeping the body mostly intact. I figured this would be the place to get the right info. I know a lot of people who have built their cages but they dont inspire confidence when I ask questions.

I figured that connection to the frame is just as important as the top side.

One of the reputable shops here said that if I wanted to just have a cage inside they just mount it to the body. I know that you will say that they are idiots and I agree. But searching as shown me that alot of people feel that attaching to the body is acceptable. Even fiberglass bodys. That is why I am here.

I don't plan on rolling it but if I do I want the cage to be able to hold up and not remove itself from the body. I also know that the body will not survive if I do roll. But that will be the point when I start a truggy

I never even thought of sold body mounts. It would solve many problems but I was concerned with flex. When I used to guide mt bike tours and we would use a van as a sag wagon we would occasionally break windows from too much flex and that was with rubber body mounts. I know that Rover frames are much stiffer.

Matt.

Here is the fast and easy and you can decide for yourself. The people who tell you to mount to the body are the ones that are either stupid, or they are also mounting the seats to the cage and expect in a hard roll to have the body and cage separate and make a sort of protected cockpit for the driver and passengers. I have never seen that happen in anything other than a cartoon. The roadrunner seems to always get away though.

Anyway, so there are two ways to go. You can get all fancy, and mount the cage to the floor, then bolt through the floor to the frame with a poly bushing between. It resolves all your issues and you only drill 4 holes in the floor per frame connection. Or.....

Cut a hole in the floor, weld straight to the frame. Patch hole with sheetmetal around tube. Done. Body will flex independent of the frame and cage. I would go with the easy route. Just get to the frame, and build a cage that won't let you die.

Here's where my D pillar goes through, still need to finish welding it but you get the idea

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f306/maxyedor/Upload0558.jpg

Then to keep rattles to a minimum the cage gets plated into the cab in as many places as possible, this is the fridge-mount to wheel-well
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f306/maxyedor/Upload0556.jpg

Solid body mounts wont cause damage? I always assumed rubber mounts were there for more than comfort.

Where do I get them or do I make them? I would rather make them.

Matt

FWIW series and defenders are solid mounts.

You could make your own.
Get a stock mount and measure its diameter and height
Get some dom of the same diameter, 3/8 wall is probably more then thick enough.
Cut to a half inch less then the body mount.
Get a holes saw same dia as mount. Cut some .25 thick discs with the hole saw.
Cap both ends of the DOM.
You can then enlarge the center hole cut with the pilot to the proper diameter for your body bolts.

If the body mounts are under say 1.5" tall, then maybe just find some alum plate of the proper thickness and cut with a hole saw.

Dont tear it up too bad, IM gonna be down there in oct so be ready to go! ohh did you ever find your 24 spline axles? let me know........

Have a look at this link to Safety Devices RRC cages, well respected cage builders in the UK. http://www.safetydevices.com/images/products/4x4/2008%20catalogue%20-%20range%20rover%20classic%20&%20series%202.pdf

Some of the cages are only designed to prevent injury in the event of a 'fall over' and to add support to a heavy roof rack (as used for Camel Trophy) and do not link to the frame. The HD cages designed for racing, comp safari in the UK and Paris/Dakar, have an under-floor structure that links cage to frame.

Regarding frame twist and body mounts, the van you mention probably had a pressed U frame rather than the Rover's fully boxed frame designed for off road use. Also by adding a decent cage your going to massively increase the rigidity of the whole rig, particularily in torsion (twist). In effect by adding solid mounts and linking cage to body and frame you're creating a braced unibody structure and the whole thing will act as one.

I like the idea of the solid body mounts and creating one solid unit. The mounts less than 2" thick so I think I will get some aluminum bar and with a little chopping and drilling I will be done and ready to start the cage.

Lane, I havn't gotten my 24splines yet. But I am still looking. Really I have found some diffs and I would just need to pony up the cash and do it but my daughter just started college at the UofU and so I am feeling a little poor.

I would love to go on a trail with you when you are down here. I have no chance of doing the trails that you will probably be doing but we'll see. When are you going to be here?

If you do notice a good deal up there I drive up about once a month to Weber State for school.

Matt.

I like the idea of the solid body mounts and creating one solid unit. The mounts less than 2" thick so I think I will get some aluminum bar and with a little chopping and drilling I will be done and ready to start the cage.

Lane, I havn't gotten my 24splines yet. But I am still looking. Really I have found some diffs and I would just need to pony up the cash and do it but my daughter just started college at the UofU and so I am feeling a little poor.

I would love to go on a trail with you when you are down here. I have no chance of doing the trails that you will probably be doing but we'll see. When are you going to be here?

If you do notice a good deal up there I drive up about once a month to Weber State for school.

Matt.


if your coming up here we will just run up to the j-yard, and we will grab you 2 good axles complete...quick and easy! i live really close to weber

Could you use the body mount change as a way to get a little lift?

you can but you will run into issues with the steering column seat belt frame tensioners transfer case linkage and radiator.

The seat belt stuff would be pretty easy to change. Just add some longer grade 8 eye bolts between the frame and the body. Radiator would be easy with some spacers. I dont know about the steering column. I havn't looked but it seems that an inch or two would be easy and taken up by the flexibility of the column. Much more than that might require something more creative. I have a super custom aftermarket dash so I dont know how it would work for stock stuff.

What I really need is more space between my front drive shaft and my bell housing. I cracked the aluminum oil pan before I put in the longer bump stops. I only have three or four inches of up travel right now.

Lane, I would like to come by and check out what you have been doing. My next school dates are Sept 10th and 11th I think. I dont know what axles would cost and I am a little tight right now but I am interested.

Matt.

let's see what you're currently working with.

I can take some pictures this weekend. I was also going to do the body mounts this weekend. I got some 2" aluminum dowel that I am going to use.

Matt.

I didn't get any new pictures this weekend but I did attach a picture of my engine because I think it is cool!:flipoff2:
463851
I did spend a lot of time talking to people about cages and I decided to use rubber bushings and cut put the cage through the floor like in maxeydors picture but I am not going to weld the cage to the body. I will leave a little larger hole in the floor and seal it with rubber matting or door trim. As long as I dont get the body moving so much that the cage hits the interior of the body I should be good.

Matt.

I did spend a lot of time talking to people about cages and I decided to use rubber bushings and cut put the cage through the floor like in maxeydors picture but I am not going to weld the cage to the body. I will leave a little larger hole in the floor and seal it with rubber matting or door trim. As long as I dont get the body moving so much that the cage hits the interior of the body I should be good.

Matt.

That is going to rattle like a motherfucker unless you built it loose as hell. Just plate it all into the body, you will more than likely end up doing it after a couple trips anyway when the noise gets on your nerves, may as well do it now while everything is torn up anyway.

Trucks had an episode where they installed a roll cage in a Cherokee. They seemed to think what they did was plenty to protect you in a roll over. Cherokee's are unibody and they welded 1/4" plate 8"x8" for the mounting locations right to the floor.

I agree the frame mount would be ideal but is it really required?

Plating the floor in an XJ is the only option they have, and at that an XJ has a little more beef in the floor than a Rover because on an XJ it's a structural member, on a Rover it's just there to hold the carpet up.

Yes you will be safe in a well designed cage that's been bolted to the floor, but it's still not ideal, nor close to it. It really isn't hard to cut a few holes, plate them back in and fill any gaps with silicon. It will seal better than the bolt-through plates, be safer, add a tremendous amount of rigidity to the chassis and is as safe as you're going to get, why wouldn't you do it?

Plating the floor in an XJ is the only option they have, and at that an XJ has a little more beef in the floor than a Rover because on an XJ it's a structural member, on a Rover it's just there to hold the carpet up.


Don't most guys add "frame" tie ins to their transfer case cross members? I'd guess that most people with XJ's that build cages probably have some sort of long arm kit that has a beefy cross member/ skid plate. I think my friend with ZJ also tied his in to his rear upper coil buckets.

Dont laugh at this but my Disco has such nice interior that I am reluctant to go hacking holes on the floor. lol. But if its the safest way then so be it. I want to put in 2 hoops just to protect in case of roll over. Nothing as serious as I have seen.