Hi,

newbie here ;-)

Does anyone know if the bellhousing from a 2H diesel 6 cylinder (HJ60) has the same bolt pattern as a 3B 4 cylinder diesel? Is the bolt pattern the same as the gas motors?

Also, what size (inches) is the clutch disc commonly found on landcruisers? Anyone know the thickness of it?

I'm planning on putting a 2H in my truck, but I need to make some adapters as I'm running a non-standard transmission and transfer case.

The truck is a 1966 Land-Rover that I've completely rebuilt. Most of the original parts are gone, and I've replaced them with better, stronger and tougher ones. It currently has a ford 300 inline six, but I have wanted a diesel for a long time now, and I am told that the 2H is one of the best. I found one locally (scrapped truck, good engine) that I want to buy and install in the Land-Rover.

I hope you guys don't mind the cross-post, I hope I'm not being a pain in the arse by asking these questions even though they don't apply to a regular Land-Cruiser.

thanks in advance,

J-L

1966 Land-Rover 109 Xpedition camper
Ford 300, T-18 SII transfer case.
Custom chassis
Power steering
Hydroboost
SPOA
Range Rover axles
Marshall ambulance body
Galvanized everything (right down to the gas pedal)

Hi Jean-Leon,
You may remember me from the LRO - I think I'm the one who talked you into the 3B conversion for your Rover! You might want to check out my site which has some (but admittedly minimal) information about the 2H & 3B diesels (as well as others).

1) I'm not sure if you've bought the 2H yet, I would say avoid it. All Canadian spec 2H's are 24 volt which will make for some $$ to replace the starter motor, alternator, glow plugs, edic motor etc to all function under a 12V system. Or you could wire in dual alternators but you might find that to be much more of a hassle than not.

2) The 3B in my opinion is a much better engine, will better fit in a Land Rover with the short bonnet, has almost identical power output as the 2H, but weighs less because it's 4 cyl and is known to last forever, even more so than the 2H.

3) From what I know the bellhousing and bolt patterns are the same. The only diffence is that transmissions with the 3B have a longer input shaft (the shaft the throwoutbearing and clutch is operated with) with a different spline count. Therefore 3B with H series transmissions need to have the input shaft changed to a B series input shaft and vice versa.

4) I'm not sure what the clutch size is.

5) You might have trouble finding a bellhousing to mate the 2H to your Ford transmission but the first place I would try is Advance Adapters. One benefit of the 2H is it has the same bellhousing and basically the same dimensions as the 2F gas Land Cruiser engine which is quite popular with conversions, so you might be able to find the bellhousing. Otherwise, you might try Lakewood Industries or another (email me backchannel) for a generic bellhousing that you can drill yourself.

6) But finally, after seeing a H55F Toyota 5 speed (fairly heavy duty and came in Canadian Land Cruisers from 83 to 87) in a Rover with a Chevy V6 Vortec with the Land Cruiser transfer case, I think it's the best tranny / tcase setup for a Rover because it has a low 1st and a high 5th, and the T-case is offset. You can find them in 12 volt BJ60s from 83-85, coupled with the stock Toyota offset transfer case it would be awesome. If your Range Rover axle is centered in the rear then switch to a FJ40 rear axle which is roughly the same width.

Good luck and let me know how it goes. That 3B (and 2H) is somewhat quiet (good for an old boxy Rover) and has a higher RPM range (3000 RPMS is no problem) than standard diesels but a torquey low. In my opinion an all around a great candidate for your 109. Email me backchannel at andre@collegeinternetsolutions.com if you have have any questions, maybe I can help.

Later,

the bellhousings and bolt patterns are different

ive converted form a 3b top 2h, input shaft on gearbox is different (fine spline = 3B) and coarse spline = 2H, 2H clutch = inch bigger..noticeable by eyes, 3b clutch is smaller, bellhousing is longer, but same bolt pattern to gearbox (four bolts in square pattern) slave cylinder is on the other side, the inlet and outlets, fuel pumps and exhaust, everything is on the opposite sides, so its a fairly difficukt conversion, brake lines are in the way..... and on and on..... my turbo 3B had almost as much power as my turbo 2H, in fact...i hardly notice the difference, except the 2H uses more fuel :( not worth the conversion costs IMO, engine mounts and radiators are different.....

there is more...but..that should be enough

BJ On Roids
How much HP and NM does your turbo 2H give?

Mine, using a non-wastegated turbo (not the like the AXT kit) we estimate gave about a 15-20% increase in power. I estimate somewhere near 130hp and 220 ft/lbs of torque after the installation. AXT claims much higher, you might might want to check out this site with the actual statistics: Ray Hall Turbo Charging (http://www.turbofast.com.au/welcome.html)

Here is a link to the actual 2H page with output rated in NMs. I think the AXT kit is best option for the money and they do ship internationally. http://www.turbofast.com.au/2hkit.html

from what I remember Rob (BJ on Roids) quoting, his 2H puts out like 139kw (aroung 185hp I think ) at the rear wheels & 750nm torque!!!

"garret turbo from 8.0L cummins, 17psi, stainless flat topped pistons, by armagroove, 40 thou overs, ported, tuned length manifold, mandrel 3" exhaust (2 feet long in total) 3" mandrel inlets,"

thats one BAD motha!!!

that's right sixty, its running very PHAT

:flipoff2:

had to make all the conversion from 3B effort to 2H effort wirthwhile, very fuel economical too (NOT) i can watch fuel go out the exhaust

and seriosuly reduces engine life......i'd guess.......but its only done 10,000km since complete rebuild sooooo.......when it dies, im gunna get a 400chev to pump my horsies.... supercharged YUM YUM :flipoff2:

and according to ruff a 4 cylinder corrolla has more horsepower and if geared right could have more torque so apparently its pretty lame.......

i want to be in the 1000s for both with a chev....

who needs gears? :flipoff2:

MEEEE...i NEED some gearing options URGENT>>>>

BUT we are waiting on a few things to be released and so forth

What did you do to the 3b if you could get almost the same HP and NM as in the tubo 2H?

I think a big misconception is that the 2H is significantly more powerful than a 3B because the 2H is 6 cyl and the 3B is four. In fact their power outputs, stock, are pretty close, and I think Toyota's main reasons for switching from the 3B to the 2H were to imporve the engine's smoothness and increase sales because a 6 sounds more attractive in a 4 in such a large truck when in fact Toyota was probably happy with it's output otherwise they would have made it more powerful! However, I've heard many arguements why a 3B is a much better engine than the 2H mostly for longevity, simplicity (though they are both admittedly simple), and the fact they are 12V in Canada versus the 24V HJ60. The 3B also has piston skirt oiling, a squirt of oil to the bottom of each piston to reduce heat, a standard feature of all 3B's but not 2H's though 12H-Ts (factory turbocharged 2H) is piston skirt cooled. Piston skirt cooling is considered a major advantage when turbo charging.

Stock output of a 3B is 90@3500 HP and 159@2200 FT/LBs of torque. The 2H is 103@3500 HP 177@2000 Ft/lbs of torque so as you can see not much difference.

With a turbo things change quite considerably which is why 4 & 6 cyl diesels are just as powerful as 8 cyl diesels in some situations. With added air you can manipulate it to burn as much fuel as the amount of air can digest. Therefore, get a whopper of a turbo and crank the fuel up and you can get a 4 banger screaming. Also, it's a whole lot easier than turbo charging on a gas engine, a whole lot less to worry about IMO.

24v is far superior to 12v. The starting motors on the 24v are stronger and more reliable because they need less current. Everyone says that it's PITA to get spares for 24v, but I just go to the local generator and starting motor dealer and and order the parts I want.

I actually 100% agree and if I have the choice, I would probably take the 24V truck again any day of the week. This year I was on an obstacle on the Pritchett Canyon trail that was very steep down to about a 1/4 tank of fuel. Due to the angle it caused my engine to run out of fuel, which unlike a gasser it a totaly PITA. So I actually put it in 1st and used the starter motor, over probably 30 feet of the obstacle to get up and over it, and of course the battery never died. Likewise 24V winches kick ass even with low amp alternators. I think 24V is far superior, I just wish 24V cars and trucks (and their related excessories) were more popular in the US!

Originally posted by jbt
What did you do to the 3b if you could get almost the same HP and NM as in the tubo 2H?

HAHAHA...i meant, similar to stock, my 3B turbo was similar to stock turbo output figures on a stock 2H....

"I think a big misconception is that the 2H is significantly more powerful than a 3B because the 2H is 6 cyl and the 3B is four. In fact their power outputs, stock, are pretty close, and I think Toyota's main reasons for switching from the 3B to the 2H were to imporve the engine's smoothness and increase sales because a 6 sounds more attractive in a 4 in such a large truck when in fact Toyota was probably happy with it's output otherwise they would have made it more powerful!"

but then i had my 2H stripped and thought...yeah why not, pistons, cam, crank, $$$ :eek:

rego and insurance went up, but instead of a huge truck and people going....coool, what sort of 8 have you got in it, :shakes head: (LOSERS) and me feeling a bit silly.....now i just go....ill beat your 8........ you name the time...ill name the place

this was my second and to date the longest surviving cruiser, getting nearly 3 years, before being totally destroyed... the engine is still running and the front diff...... most of the rest is toast :D

3B, 35" muds...its all about BOOST :flipoff2: head lifting, fuel burning, piston eating BOOST!!