Here is an image of the garage and an image of the service breaker box that is on the house that the garage is next to. I desire to bring electricity to the garage. I have no problems digging the trench and running the conduit and wires. The problem I have is how to connect the wires from the garage into the box on the house. The two wires on the top of the service breaker are the inputs from the meter. The two wires on the bottom of the service breaker feed the breaker box inside the house. There is no provision for adding extra lines to the bottom of the service breaker. How do I add the wires coming from the garage into the bottom of this service breaker?????

Thanks in advance (as always) and if you must flame at least make it entertaining...

I have seen where 'lectricians have "tapped in" to where the line comming in from meter is.

I think there is room for another wire to fit in there, if you look how deep that allen screw is, if'n it gets backed out, there is room to stuff a wire in there,,,,,,,

But, I'd get a 'lectrician to see if it was okay,,,,,,,,,,,

...How do I add the wires coming from the garage into the bottom of this service breaker?????


You don't.... you need a different main disconnect setup. Call and electrician.

There ain't much room for 'nuther wire on the bottom of the service breaker. The wires that's in them currently (ha) is taking up about 80% of the area (i.e. if I back out the set screw that's holding the wire in there is only about 1/8" that is available for a second wire.) I am running heavy gauge wire to the garage (compressor, welders, etc) and it simply won't fit if I try to put both the house and the garage wires into the bottom of the service breaker.

Thanks for the input though!

You don't.... you need a different main disconnect setup. Call and electrician.

If that is the case then I will definitely call someone. I ain't going near the two inputs to the service breaker.

yea i would look into a new service box with two disconnects on for the house and one for the garage. if room is tight maybe mount the new box on the left side of the meter. cost of a box shouldn't be two bad. and a electrician should only take an hour or so to set up the new box. with my electrician i mounted the box and conduit, to save a little labor. and he played with the big wires.

yea i would look into a new service box with two disconnects on for the house and one for the garage. if room is tight maybe mount the new box on the left side of the meter. cost of a box shouldn't be two bad. and a electrician should only take an hour or so to set up the new box. with my electrician i mounted the box and conduit, to save a little labor. and he played with the big wires.

Do you have the name and number of the electrician that did your work? I'm a little west of Golden, maybe he won't balk at the drive up GGC.

sent you a pm

Thanks very muchly.:beer:

I would take a look at what size of service you have as well as your house panel to see if you could run a big enough breaker in the house panel to supply power to the garage. IE I have 200A service coming into the shop and run a 100A breaker and sub-panel off of the main panel to save on running big conductors all over the place.

200amp service? You can't double lug. I went to a 400amp (C320) service which does have double lugs. From there, one set feeds the 200amp panel in the house and the other serves the 200amp panel in the shop. The other option is as Jason says - a breaker off the main panel for the shop if the main panel can support it.

I would take a look at what size of service you have as well as your house panel to see if you could run a big enough breaker in the house panel to supply power to the garage. IE I have 200A service coming into the shop and run a 100A breaker and sub-panel off of the main panel to save on running big conductors all over the place.

200amp service? You can't double lug. I went to a 400amp (C320) service which does have double lugs. From there, one set feeds the 200amp panel in the house and the other serves the 200amp panel in the shop. The other option is as Jason says - a breaker off the main panel for the shop if the main panel can support it.

I'm looking into the option of running a sub-panel in the garage off of a couple of slots in the breaker box that's in the house. However, the breaker box in the house doesn't have ANY empty slots. If I can fit a couple of narrower breakers in place of a couple of existing breakers I might have a chance.

Check with your electric supplier too. When I decided to run serious power to my garage (I wanted 200amp service) I found out that my local electric co-op would run the lines from the street, burried, for free. All I had to do was buy a 200amp panel and wire the garage myself.

That's an option but it all depends on your house load (in amps), your intended garage load and what the house supply is. I just ran 60amps out to my new garage of of the house box. Had the same issue with having no slots left. I used 2 piggy back breakers to consolidate 4 small house circuits. Then put a 220 60a breaker in the newly created spots which feeds the garage subpanel. Had to add a ground bar to the subpanel along with a local ground rod. It's only 60amps but that's all I need for my residential garage.

I've never been a big fan of the "narrow" breakers. Probably because more often than not it means that someone is trying to overload a panel.

I'm assuming that you have a 200amp service? How many slots do you have in the panel? Again, I tend to go for a 40 slot 200amp panel no matter what. If you have a smaller panel, you can run a sub-panel directly next to the main panel and swap some circuits over to it to free up space in the main panel to grab for the run to that sub-panel as well as the sub-panel for the shop.

Also depends on what you plan to be doing out in the shop. If you're only trying to grab enough for lighting, some 15amp receptacles, and such that's the way to go. If you're looking at 220V welder, air compressor, and such I'd step up to the C320 service and run two 200amp panels.

Check with your electric supplier too. When I decided to run serious power to my garage (I wanted 200amp service) I found out that my local electric co-op would run the lines from the street, burried, for free. All I had to do was buy a 200amp panel and wire the garage myself.

Hmmmm, I would have to check with the power company. Not so sure it would be free where I'm at. But that's something I hadn't considered.

That's an option but it all depends on your house load (in amps), your intended garage load and what the house supply is. I just ran 60amps out to my new garage of of the house box. Had the same issue with having no slots left. I used 2 piggy back breakers to consolidate 4 small house circuits. Then put a 220 60a breaker in the newly created spots which feeds the garage subpanel. Had to add a ground bar to the subpanel along with a local ground rod. It's only 60amps but that's all I need for my residential garage.

I will be running flourescent lights, a 220V compressor and a 220V welder/plasma cutter, all potentially at the same time. 60A might just be enough, barely, but enough. The garage is ~70 ft from the household breaker box. I would have to use the largest gauge wire to prevent a noticeable IR drop.

I've never been a big fan of the "narrow" breakers. Probably because more often than not it means that someone is trying to overload a panel.

I'm assuming that you have a 200amp service? How many slots do you have in the panel? Again, I tend to go for a 40 slot 200amp panel no matter what. If you have a smaller panel, you can run a sub-panel directly next to the main panel and swap some circuits over to it to free up space in the main panel to grab for the run to that sub-panel as well as the sub-panel for the shop.

Also depends on what you plan to be doing out in the shop. If you're only trying to grab enough for lighting, some 15amp receptacles, and such that's the way to go. If you're looking at 220V welder, air compressor, and such I'd step up to the C320 service and run two 200amp panels.

Yes, the input to the house service breaker is 200A. The household panel is, unfortunately, full. If I wanted 200A service to the garage I would have to contact the utility company and have them bury the lines and install a meter on the garage, no??? "I" couldn't pull the 200A after the existing meter for the garage as that's already feeding the service breaker shown in my first post, could I??

Hmmmm, I would have to check with the power company. Not so sure it would be free where I'm at. But that's something I hadn't considered.

It used to be free around here. Only one electric company so they figured they would hook you up to anything you wanted because then you'd consume more. Then they deregulated things to supposedly lower prices due to competition. So now they charge for any work and we're getting hit with a 50% (minimum) rise in electric costs at the end of the year... :shaking:

I will be running flourescent lights, a 220V compressor and a 220V welder/plasma cutter, all potentially at the same time. 60A might just be enough, barely, but enough. The garage is ~70 ft from the household breaker box. I would have to use the largest gauge wire to prevent a noticeable IR drop.

Your main costs are going to be in the service wire to the shop and in the labor. Upping the capacity is going to increase the cable costs, but it won't really make a difference for labor.

For me, running my plasma means at least lights, compressor, air dryer, and plasma - so 60amps wouldn't cut it right there. Then I have a 100amp circuit for the TIG. I also have a wood shop upstairs and there are times I'm working on things downstairs when my father comes over and runs stuff upstairs (220V tablesaw, planer, sander, dust collector, etc). So the 200amp service for the shop was a no-brainer. It is just me at the house, so if I'm out in the shop not much is going on at the house. But if you have a family and they're running the TVs, electric range, electric dryer, etc. in the house while you're out in the shop... I'd look into the costs for a C320 service...

Yes, the input to the house service breaker is 200A. The household panel is, unfortunately, full. If I wanted 200A service to the garage I would have to contact the utility company and have them bury the lines and install a meter on the garage, no??? "I" couldn't pull the 200A after the existing meter for the garage as that's already feeding the service breaker shown in my first post, could I??

I was typing while you were posting...

They'd have to provide a new service and meter. The C320 meter (C=commercial, and you're allowed to "use" 80% of capacity - so 80% of 400amps is 320) has double lugs. So from the meter you'd connect one set of lugs in to the existing panel in the house and then run from the other set of lugs to the shop.

So you'd have an electrician put the panel in the shop and run the service cables from it up to the house. The electric company would then bring a new service in to the house from the street, provide a new meter, and connect the two panels up to the new meter.

I was typing while you were posting...

They'd have to provide a new service and meter. The C320 meter (C=commercial, and you're allowed to "use" 80% of capacity - so 80% of 400amps is 320) has double lugs. So from the meter you'd connect one set of lugs in to the existing panel in the house and then run from the other set of lugs to the shop.

So you'd have an electrician put the panel in the shop and run the service cables from it up to the house. The electric company would then bring a new service in to the house from the street, provide a new meter, and connect the two panels up to the new meter.

Some places will allow shared meters for separate buildings. you would be getting a new 200amp feed from the meters output side.

It all depends on the utility provider

Yes, should have mentioned that. Some places will allow two meters. Here, the second meter has to be billed at commercial rates which enters into a whole different ballgame. To maintain my residential rates, I had to have everything on one meter.

Even if they allow a second meter, it is often better to have one because there is usually a minimum monthly charge for service. So even if you aren't out in the shop for three months over the winter because it is too cold you are paying that minimum service fee.

Thanks for everyone's input. I got plenty to think about now.:beer:

I would take a look at what size of service you have as well as your house panel to see if you could run a big enough breaker in the house panel to supply power to the garage. IE I have 200A service coming into the shop and run a 100A breaker and sub-panel off of the main panel to save on running big conductors all over the place.

We had them run the main to the garage then run a sub panel to the house. We took the opertunity to bury all lines at that time.

Some places will allow shared meters for separate buildings. you would be getting a new 200amp feed from the meters output side.

It all depends on the utility provider

They will not allow seperate meters here.

We had them run the main to the garage then run a sub panel to the house. We took the opertunity to bury all lines at that time.


To clarify I have a single phase rural service that the utility company calls 2 x 200, one 200A feed goes to the shop panel in the front of the shop which feeds a 100A sub panel in the back.

The other 200A feed goes to the house. One meter with two 200A breakers in the distribution box below and I am supposed to be able to pull 400A combined from the service.

When I wired my shop myself, I got lucky: My house has underground power to the meter, then to an external 200A box. That external box fed the interior house 100A panel, as well as the HVAC. I Simply added a 100A breaker to the outside panel and hooked that up to my shop.

That's the direction I'd suggest you go.

When I wired my shop myself, I got lucky: My house has underground power to the meter, then to an external 200A box. That external box fed the interior house 100A panel, as well as the HVAC. I Simply added a 100A breaker to the outside panel and hooked that up to my shop.

That's the direction I'd suggest you go.

So you're saying that I add another breaker to the service breaker box shown in the picture in my first post? HomeGrown was suggesting something similiar (both with the aid of an electrician, of course). This would be the easiest for the electrician I would think. I need to call an electrician....

If that narrow box will handle it - yes. Otherwise, you'll be upgrading to a box that will handle the additional breakers.

So you're saying that I add another breaker to the service breaker box shown in the picture in my first post? HomeGrown was suggesting something similiar (both with the aid of an electrician, of course). This would be the easiest for the electrician I would think. I need to call an electrician....

Well, I'm not there to see the box in person, but it sure as hell looks like a single disconnect box with no provisions for adding a second disconnect to me. A local electrictian or local code enforcement agency will be able to advise you as to just what you can and can't do with that box. Get someone out there that is qualified to determine the legal of the installation in your area. It doesn't matter what the internet or the PBB says as most electric ulities with not accept any major modifications to the service without a signoff from the local code enforcement agency. You will likely have to call the utility to deengerize the feed from the meter can so modifications can safely be made and they likely not reengerize the service without inspection and approval.

Your main out side in the pic looks like a 200A main, could be a 150A. You can tap off the bottom wires feeding your house, not on the lugs though. You have to use a polaris type connector or something simliar.This is called the 10 foot tap rule in the n.e.c. . then mount a 100a disconnect to the otherside (to feed your garage).But run a larger tri-plex to your garage like a 4/0 direct burial.they sell it at home depot. That way if you up grade your service you do not have to run new cable to your grage for more amps. I can explain better on the phone if you want advise.
p.m. for my number, and yes i am a electrician.:D

mike

Well, I'm not there to see the box in person, but it sure as hell looks like a single disconnect box with no provisions for adding a second disconnect to me. A local electrictian or local code enforcement agency will be able to advise you as to just what you can and can't do with that box. Get someone out there that is qualified to determine the legal of the installation in your area. It doesn't matter what the internet or the PBB says as most electric ulities with not accept any major modifications to the service without a signoff from the local code enforcement agency. You will likely have to call the utility to deengerize the feed from the meter can so modifications can safely be made and they likely not reengerize the service without inspection and approval.

Roger that. I will not touch that breaker. I'll gladly pay a qualified pro.


Your main out side in the pic looks like a 200A main, could be a 150A. You can tap off the bottom wires feeding your house, not on the lugs though. You have to use a polaris type connector or something simliar.This is called the 10 foot tap rule in the n.e.c. . then mount a 100a disconnect to the otherside (to feed your garage).But run a larger tri-plex to your garage like a 4/0 direct burial.they sell it at home depot. That way if you up grade your service you do not have to run new cable to your grage for more amps. I can explain better on the phone if you want advise.
p.m. for my number, and yes i am a electrician.:D

mike

Thanks Mike!