Ok grade 8 is easy enough, but the heck is B7?

check this out.
http://www.americanfastener.com/technical/grade_markings_steel.asp

I busted my D60 leaf spring studs. I bought them from Dyna trac. They said there grade 8, but that does not exist in all thread. So I'm thinking there grade B7

These are much cheaper
http://www.fastenal.com/web/products/detail.ex?sku=0133656&ucst=t

I busted my D60 leaf spring studs. I bought them from Dyna trac.

About time you broke those, I've gone through about 6 of em...:nuke:

If I remember right, do you have hydro assist?

After I limited my ram, I never broke another stud. (I'm running Dynatrac's studs)

:flipoff2:

Go with CAT bolts, and put in one more just for the heck of it.

B7 Tensile strength 125,000 psi
Grade 8 Tensile strength 150,000 psi
Grade 5 Tensile strength 120,000 psi

War pony, Cat bolts are the best!

Go with CAT bolts, and put in one more just for the heck of it.

Thanks again Dan. Last time I got to do the stud extraction, it was on my driveway and I was nervous as hell. Last thing you want to do is mess up and weld the stud in permanently. I had some of the SS 312 rod and it work great out on the trail.

So what are Cat bolts ( grade 10 and where do I find them. I thought studs were a better way to go and then use a nut to hold them down. Like the steering arm are held in place. I hear ya on the extra bolt, remember you saying that the last time I broke a stud.:shaking:

Brian these are the leaf spring studs.


Edit.. I called WFO and he is sending me the parts for the 3rd stud

Here the video last time. ( My first movie) YouTube - Dana 60 stud removal (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWS2J6QtVbM)

Cat standard gade 8 bolts exceed SAE grade 8 specs, so 150,000 +. If you can get the Cat high strength hex bolts or hex socket head's, both are 170,000 psi minimum.

Craig, It needs to be CAT, not John Deere, :D They my be green and that again is bad luck. Let me know if you can't find them. The are a bit more than your LE bolt ,and worth it for this aplication.

Brain these are the leaf spring studs.


Doh... ...:homer:

broke those too.. got Dynatrac's stud there too

Well.. this might have a :flipoff2: way of getting back at ya for going wheeling every weekend :flipoff2:

I thought about that 3rd stud idea before, and thought about tying into the diff cover with an extra bolt/sleeve.

'

I pulled the studs today and the Dyna track studs are stamped B7. Fastenal has the same stud for 1/10 the price.

My box of goodies arrived from WFO and I pulled the leaf spring and started the process of drilling and tapping the 3rd hole in the axle. I believe the one's WFO sent are B7 grade too. I had him send the spring plates, two 5" 5/8 studs and one 9/16 stud for the new center position. Plus new U-bolt as the other one is going into the spares bag.

when those give up, let me know and I will get you the CAT bolts . That way you wont need to do it again :D

Talking with Trevor he said when the u-bolt gets loose the studs will break from the rocking action. So the key is to keep the U-bolt tight. I find mine seems to come loose a lot. Like every hard core trip. He said the 3rd stud helps a lot with that too. I will take you up on the Cat bolts next time:smokin:

Couple pic's of the progress. I drilled the hole like a 1/4" deeper than needed, should have made it a 1/2 deeper as the stud needs to go a bit deeper before bottoming out.. I will just cut the end of the tap off and make into a bottom tap. :D
I drilled the spring plate on the drill press and then used it to hold the bit straight up and down while drilling the axle. At first I thought why did the plate not come with the 3rd hole cut, but not having it worked out way better as I could use it make sure I drilled straight down.

Wouldn't it be easier to install a second u-bolt in place of the studs? That's the next mod I'll be doing....sooner or later :shaking:

Wouldn't it be easier to install a second u-bolt in place of the studs? That's the next mod I'll be doing....sooner or later :shaking:

we did the ubolt thing with my sons dodge 60 on his cummins truck. worked great ....if i break them again thats what i'll do..... i had the studs of trevors and the 3rd stud.... its a good setup....i eventually went to the cat bolts, with a gobb of red locktight....almost the only way i have found the studs or the bolts break is if they get loose or you attatch you hydro to the plate

i do believe the third stud is the key... that and keeping them tight! good luck craig...........leaving tomarrow for the cantina for the con weekend, if you get it fixed come on up, trying to get a spot at loon

glenn

I bought the BTF D60F U-bolt kit w/ studs. It has actual studs in it... not pieces of all-thread. Of course, I haven't installed them yet, so I have no testimonial.

The stud and nuts seem to stay tight, it's the u-bolt that comes loose.
I got the hole tapped and all three studs installed with red lock tight.

As for which is easier, hard to say. drilling a hole did not take too long. I would worry about grinding on the housing to make the u-bolt work.

Edit..
Got a pic of those BTF studs?? It's the cycle action of the back and forth that bust the studs/all-thread/bolts. Once the u-bolt gets just a tad bit loose the rocking action is like wiggling a paper clip back and forth.
I just need to check the u-bolts after each time out.

The stud and nuts seem to stay tight, it's the u-bolt that comes loose.
I got the hole tapped and all three studs installed with red lock tight.

As for which is easier, hard to say. drilling a hole did not take too long. I would worry about grinding on the housing to make the u-bolt work.

Yeah... I am now weary of grinding on the axle housing for obvious reasons. :laughing:

Yeah... I am now weary of grinding on the axle housing for obvious reasons. :laughing:

Now don't let this scare ya.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=272619&stc=1&d=1163564941

Now don't let this scare ya.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=272619&stc=1&d=1163564941

I don't think that would scare him, his pic was a lot more dramatic, but just as tragic:D

I don't think that would scare him, his pic was a lot more dramatic, but just as tragic:D

:laughing::laughing:

That is my axle Chi.... only that picture was taken after I put the chain/ratchet binder truss on axle and pulled the halves back together so I could get it off the trailer and into the driveway. When I go to swap it out, I'll jack it up, remove the truss and let the weight of the Scout back down on the axle to get some pictures of the true carnage. :flipoff2:

I plan on outboarding the leafs and run a ubolt instead of studs. I need to point the pinion up a little too so...I run the skyjacker 1st generation leafs, so 2in spring isnt hard to do.

Ok in my hurry to get this done, I painted the spring plate and went to install everything. Then remembered I needed to do some cut and paste on the center hole. Since I'm running 8 degree shims the spring center pin is tilted to the rear about 1/2" from center. :( So tonight I get to use some carb cleaner on my paint job and make the mod.
I think I will just cut out all the holes and weld in some flat bar and then redrill it where it needs to be.


Here what it looks like with all the studs installed and new plate

So if the reason that the studs keep breaking is the u-bolt coming loose what can be done about this. Things coming to mind are larger u-bolts, double nuts, I am sure that loc-tite is being used. What is the mechanism that causes the u-bolt to loosen? This is a common problem with all of us cheap ass leaf spring assholes. Does the u-bolt stretch? I honestly am stumped. I usually just torque the shit out of mine and them seem to hold most of the time. I know that probably it is due to the spring being compressed and stretched out. So from the BTF site it is a 5/8 x 3 5/8 u-bolt. Why not go up to a 3/4 u-bolt? We have a driveline line shop here in KC that can bend you about anything that you want. Don't know if they are using as good of wire as BTF or not. Here is a pretty good site discussing u-bolts U-bolt information (http://www.clampsinc.com/guidelines%20for%20ubolts.htm#COLD DRAWING AND BOLT STRENGTH).

Are you using the longer u-bolt nuts that look like they are about two nuts high? Could you double nut with standard grade 8 nuts on the u-bolt to keep them from getting loose?

Sorry for the rambling post. I am riding out to Colorado to go to Rocky Mountain National Park for the weekend and I thought we could have a good tech discussion instead of all of the newbs asking will this fit or what D44 do I have.

So if the reason that the studs keep breaking is the u-bolt coming loose what can be done about this. Things coming to mind are larger u-bolts, double nuts, I am sure that loc-tite is being used. What is the mechanism that causes the u-bolt to loosen? This is a common problem with all of us cheap ass leaf spring assholes. Does the u-bolt stretch? I honestly am stumped. I usually just torque the shit out of mine and them seem to hold most of the time. I know that probably it is due to the spring being compressed and stretched out. So from the BTF site it is a 5/8 x 3 5/8 u-bolt. Why not go up to a 3/4 u-bolt? We have a driveline line shop here in KC that can bend you about anything that you want. Don't know if they are using as good of wire as BTF or not. Here is a pretty good site discussing u-bolts U-bolt information (http://www.clampsinc.com/guidelines%20for%20ubolts.htm#COLD DRAWING AND BOLT STRENGTH).

Are you using the longer u-bolt nuts that look like they are about two nuts high? Could you double nut with standard grade 8 nuts on the u-bolt to keep them from getting loose?

Sorry for the rambling post. I am riding out to Colorado to go to Rocky Mountain National Park for the weekend and I thought we could have a good tech discussion instead of all of the newbs asking will this fit or what D44 do I have.

Good write up and brilliant simple idea, just up the size to 3/4 I'm sure it would fit and the plate can be drilled if needed.

A bit of back ground on my setup. My u-bolt nuts come loose by the bolt stretching. When I first put everything together they all need to be re tighten. But the rear don't come loose anymore. The front one seem to come loose more often, and the passenger side with the studs I need to watch closer. As for torque I found this U-bolt torque (http://www.portlandbolt.com/technicalinformation/bolt-torque-chart.html?gclid=CLyugP7d2ZwCFRgSawodw2RNEA)
I got my u-bolts from Betts spring and they said they were grade 8. looks like I could have torque them more as I was only going to 125-150, and the spec is 212 ft lbs. for grade 8. I don't know the ASTM info on my new one yet, but I really like the idea of going 3/4" as it's 1/3 stronger to resist stretching.

I'm also running shims top and bottom to keep the clamping force even.

I'm sure Betts will have 3/4 bolts, but heres an online source (http://www.truckspring.com/3-4-diameter_915.html)too

edit... I was running the stock cast plate and no way that thing can bend, it's an inch thick. the new one is a 3/8 bent plate.

I'm glad this thread was started, since ChiScouter just happened to sell me one with both studs sheared off. :flipoff2:

I'm glad this thread was started, since ChiScouter just happened to sell me one with both studs sheared off. :flipoff2:

thats so you could start practicing on getting them out before you have to do a field fix:D

Based on my experience with stockers I would say that having studs on one side and U bolt on the other is an inherent problem. Im guessing that the U bolt expands more under stress which overstresses the studs. I bought Tims axle already pulled, but IIRC the original studs were torched off. Of all the Chevy axles I pulled at the boneyard over half the axles has one broken stud, a sheared off leaf spring center bolt, or the studs and/or U bolt were loose. Even the stockers driven on the road in the flatlands have problems.

thats so you could start practicing on getting them out before you have to do a field fix:D

Based on my experience with stockers I would say that having studs on one side and U bolt on the other is an inherent problem. Im guessing that the U bolt expands more under stress which overstresses the studs. I bought Tims axle already pulled, but IIRC the original studs were torched off. Of all the Chevy axles I pulled at the boneyard over half the axles has one broken stud, a sheared off leaf spring center bolt, or the studs and/or U bolt were loose. Even the stockers driven on the road in the flatlands have problems.

Nah....these studs were sheared off. I think somebody just over torqued them, and they snapped. They have that right hand (I want to call it) wave to them. If that makes sense.

I'm glad this thread was started, since ChiScouter just happened to sell me one with both studs sheared off. :flipoff2:

He sold me a 60 with both holes so rusted the threads had vaniashed :homer:

My redrilling skills didn't turn out so well. The 3/4 threads look buggered for some reason :(

2 u-bolts are in the future for me :D

He sold me a 60 with both holes so rusted the threads had vaniashed :homer:

My redrilling skills didn't turn out so well. The 3/4 threads look buggered for some reason :(

2 u-bolts are in the future for me :D

That's probably what I might end up doing, not sure yet though. I also have extract a spring center head out also. :laughing:

So if the reason that the studs keep breaking is the u-bolt coming loose what can be done about this. Things coming to mind are larger u-bolts, double nuts, I am sure that loc-tite is being used.


Use green loc-tite. :evil:
















No, don't. Green loctite is worse than welding, you'll rip the threads off before you break it free.

I'm not sure if this would make a difference but what if you flexed it out so your springs where flat and then tighten the shit out of it. It might remove any unwanted play, that could cause failure.

I'm not sure if this would make a difference but what if you flexed it out so your springs where flat and then tighten the shit out of it. It might remove any unwanted play, that could cause failure.

This is a actual good tip. I had the springs fully extended and tighten the nuts to 120lbs and then lowered the jack and the nuts turned a bit more. Then I jack up the other side and could tighten them up a bit more again. I will go to my "flex" rock near my house and torque them again. Since everything is new I will stop every so often and check the torque.


On a side note I fixed that rear hanger Blind driver pointed out a while back.
I also noticed the housing had a seam on the bottom and I smoothed that out so it would not wear into the housing and come loose.
Once the nuts were tight, then center pin was not. I did not use C-clamps to put it together like normal as the new bolt was a lot longer so that could have been the cause there. FYI you can't check the center pin to see if it's tight if you use the stock cast plate.

Not to be an ass but this seems like a great time to get going with the link setup:flipoff2: But when I had leafs I would tighten my U bolts with a 1/2 impact gun about once a week until the bolt were streached out and the gun stoped turning. I know that lots of lift spring manufactures tell you to retorque after X amout of driving. I have had the centering pin break a couple times and then the axle then has nothing to locate it~lots of fun on the way home from a wheelin trip~I found this happens as the Ubolts streach. I think the larger Ubolts would be harder to streach and a good upgrade also.

Not to be an ass but this seems like a great time to get going with the link setup:flipoff2: But when I had leafs I would tighten my U bolts with a 1/2 impact gun about once a week until the bolt were streached out and the gun stoped turning. I know that lots of lift spring manufactures tell you to retorque after X amout of driving. I have had the centering pin break a couple times and then the axle then has nothing to locate it~lots of fun on the way home from a wheelin trip~I found this happens as the Ubolts streach. I think the larger Ubolts would be harder to streach and a good upgrade also.I've done this on severel differant vehicles. Seems like they need to be re tourqued 3-4 times. Once half way throught the first wheelin trip.

figured I should wrap this thread up with a couple pic that did not get posted.

As for links, thats a lot of work and money, maybe on the next rig.

It will take a while to get these new bolts stretched and tighten, but I will just have the torque wrench behind the seat, so it will make it quick and easy.
The annual Rubicon trip in just 4 days away:smokin:

just keep checking them for a while craig........ i was looking for you this weekend, was a blast.:smokin:

I got my cantina tickets early so I'm good there. I was up there the last 3 weekends, and we have a run is this comming weekend. So I went to my dads place and help him. He needed help digging a foundation that could only be reached with a shovel. Got it all done and the rebar installed, just need to pour concrete.

Ok grade 8 is easy enough, but the heck is B7?

check this out.
http://www.americanfastener.com/technical/grade_markings_steel.asp

I busted my D60 leaf spring studs. I bought them from Dyna trac. They said there grade 8, but that does not exist in all thread. So I'm thinking there grade B7

These are much cheaper
http://www.fastenal.com/web/products/detail.ex?sku=0133656&ucst=t
A B7 grade bolt or stud and the accompanying 2H nut or heavy hex nut is used in Low pressure/ temperature steam, any gas, and process piping lines. B7 Hardware was not meant for automotive use. Merely used to bolt up flange connections on pipe, such as at refineries, power plants, etc. Some retard at a 4wd shop probably thought it would be good to use cause he couldn't find a a G8 stud, or threaded rod, so now B7 is the "in shit" to use. Both are common at most industrial supply houses in B7. Accessible to 4wd shops. I don't know about CAT bolts, but you might try Grade 9 or F911 hardwainfore from Foremost Threaded Products. Good tensile, side load/ shear strength. About the best that can be had.

i would not run those slotted spring plates, get some 1/2" plate and make your own. also look into some stover locknuts.

i would not run those slotted spring plates, get some 1/2" plate and make your own. also look into some stover locknuts.

The nuts don't come loose, the U-bolt/bolt stretches. I don't like the slots either, and can weld them up a bit. 1/2" plate will bend, but you could weld some wings on the ends to give it more strength. My 3/8" plates are not bent and I just got done running the Rubicon trail. I tighten the U-bolts about 5 or 6 times. The B7 rod stretched a little bit, but the u-bolt stretched like a 1/2":eek: I also marked the spring pack with a sharpie to see if the pack moved and it did a bit.

I will get a pic so you can see the before and after one trip for reference. But I'm going to call Betts about the 3/4" u-bolt before the trip to Fordyce in Oct.

Here a couple of threads. The first thread has links to other threads.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=653718&highlight=dana+60+studs

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57396

Good read thanks.

I guess they streched less then I thought, just seem like I just keep turning and turning and turning them.

so guys im in this sam predicament. at least now i know what studs to order from fastenal. Also if cast is stripped is there a kit to install helicoils or something. beleive me i have searched fastenal, mcmastercarr etc and cant seem to find a solution other than going to 3/4" studs

With all the torque on those studs, I don't like a Helli coil would last long. You will need to go 3/4 and use a lot of oil when cutting. Just cut a bit and back off. I found the cast cuts different then plate steel, just take your time.

Other options would be to fill the holes in and start over, or go u-bolt on that side too. I've seen people make a shoe that fits the housing and then run a u-bolt.

think that's the situation i'm in also.while tighening the two bolts i heard a pop,thought i broke a grade 8.then i looked and lifted the bolt up with full thread still left.haven't dug deeper yet,but i think the threads are shot.if i decide to go to 3/4,i will have to redrill and tap and while i'm at it,i might as well add the 3rd.wich i will keep 9/16th

look at the bottom pic in post #41, that huge shim is what is causing the problem... w/o that 8* taper put back on the top of the ubolt plate you are side loading the hell out of all of the hardware, look at the ubolt in the bottom left, you can see it is bent a little because of the plate is not perpendicular to the bolt...

all this and still NO CAT BOLTS wtf!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's the three boats and a helicopter story all over again

look at the bottom pic in post #41, that huge shim is what is causing the problem... w/o that 8* taper put back on the top of the ubolt plate you are side loading the hell out of all of the hardware, look at the ubolt in the bottom left, you can see it is bent a little because of the plate is not perpendicular to the bolt...

It has a shim on top too.

It has a shim on top too.

some people say thats how you do it to make it "right", but I still dont think it helps much. Out board your springs a little and ubolt it, it's what Im doing Then you can pivot the pinion up if need be.

It has a shim on top too.

wow, is this you being a dick or what... i offer unsarcastic problems in a diagnostic topic and i get this petty shit... :shaking: look for help elsewhere ...

wow, is this you being a dick or what... i offer unsarcastic problems in a diagnostic topic and i get this petty shit... :shaking: look for help elsewhere ...


Not being a dick just wanted to be sure everyone knows I run shims top and bottom, as the small print got missed on post 23..



I'm also running shims top and bottom to keep the clamping force even.



I could add some fangs to the front and get rid of the shims, but others are running 8* shims.

Go with CAT bolts, and put in one more just for the heck of it.
were can i get cat studs

were can i get cat studs

At a CAT dealership

were can i get cat studs

At the Humane Society.

NO,NO,NO, the humane society neuters all their cats! There are no cat studs at the humane society. You gotta watch the ads on craigslist and get a kitten before it gets neutered to have your own cat stud!:laughing:

i went there and they said they didnt have anythign colse to what i needed, the guy said he didnt even know if they cary stuff that would come close to the size i need

If you were at a CATERPILLAR dealer, you got a doofus for a parts guy or something.
Figure out what you need and call Specialty Fastener,(google it, they are in Commiefornia) they handle all the ARP line of bolts, nuts and studs and have lots of stuff not in their catalog and ARP's catalog.
For this application, I wouldn't use the stuff from Fastenal. They have lots of good stuff, but like one guy pointed out, it aint made for this kind of stuff.

i went there and they said they didnt have anythign colse to what i needed, the guy said he didnt even know if they cary stuff that would come close to the size i need

Yeah, I think most Cats use 3/4" studs to hold the cup holders on. 3/4" is for the pussy, home owner models.

CAT part # for 9/16" studs 5P-3887

$14 each as of yesterday

CAT part # for 9/16" studs 5P-3887

$14 each as of yesterday

He might be looking for the 5/8 studs or bolts. I've been happy so far with the B7 all thread and 9/16 extra stud. If I were to do it again I would upgrade the U-bolt from 5/8 grade 8 to 3/4 grade 8 for extra insurance. The U-bolt stretched a lot when I first installed it. I would wheel and tighten the nuts, wheel and tighten nuts, after about 3 or 4 times it stopped stretching. The last 3 trips the nuts have been tight:smokin:

CAT part # for 9/16" studs 5P-3887

$14 each as of yesterday

i called them and they said that that part number is for 5/8 and that they dont make 9/16:(

oh, yea I guess it was 5/8

oh, yea I guess it was 5/8

Good thing as that is what size it takes:smokin: 5/8-11 is what the stock bolts are. i'm running 5/8-11 studs in the stock holes and the 3rd stud is 9/16

Is there room for the 3rd stud to be 5/8" also ????

Good thing as that is what size it takes:smokin: 5/8-11 is what the stock bolts are. i'm running 5/8-11 studs in the stock holes and the 3rd stud is 9/16
yea, I got confused, those are what I have to put in the stock holes, and I am gonna get another one if it will work for the 3rd hole.

what is the stock size for the studs 9/16 or 5/ 8

Guys, I didn't see it posted, but McMaster sells Grade 8 all-thread in 5/8-11. That is what I use on my 60 in the standard ubolt/2 stud configuration. I also use G8 nylocks. I torque them to 120 ft/lbs with the weight of the truck fully on the axle.

what is the stock size for the studs 9/16 or 5/ 8

Stock did not have studs:flipoff2:

I'm just going to do the fabled D60 2nd u-bolt mod. Might be this Spring when I'm extending the frame and converting to chevy leaves.

Stock did not have studs:flipoff2:

then whats the bolt size so i can out studs

then whats the bolt size so i can out studs

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11898758&postcount=62

Talking with Trevor he said when the u-bolt gets loose the studs will break from the rocking action. So the key is to keep the U-bolt tight. I find mine seems to come loose a lot. Like every hard core trip. He said the 3rd stud helps a lot with that too. I will take you up on the Cat bolts next time:smokin:

Couple pic's of the progress. I drilled the hole like a 1/4" deeper than needed, should have made it a 1/2 deeper as the stud needs to go a bit deeper before bottoming out.. I will just cut the end of the tap off and make into a bottom tap. :D
I drilled the spring plate on the drill press and then used it to hold the bit straight up and down while drilling the axle. At first I thought why did the plate not come with the 3rd hole cut, but not having it worked out way better as I could use it make sure I drilled straight down.

can you tell me how this set up worked for you? it looks heavy duty! but why didnt you make all 3 bolts/studs 5/8 instead?

can you tell me how this set up worked for you? it looks heavy duty! but why didnt you make all 3 bolts/studs 5/8 instead?

It has worked out good. The u-bolts took a few trips before they stopped streaching. The 9/16 stud is off a chevy high steer. 5 trips on the Rubicon this year and no issues

What's the resaoning for using 9/16" for the 3rd stud? It'd be nice to use the same hardware and socket size for torquing. What am I missing? There appears to be enough room.

I would guess that using 9/16 is so you can have another shot at rethreading the hole bigger should it strip again.

does cat bolts come n 9/16.

Use B7 studs, you can special order them through HD Supply/White Cap and use grade C all metal lock nuts. Or if you have a resale license I can sell em to you. Set screws are also made of hardened steel and are easier to work with because of their allen drive. F911 grade bolts are one of the strongest bolts available and the people that sell them know their shit. All of the options I listed are available in all fractional sizes in both USS and SAE standard thread pitches. Something to take into consideration when drilling and tapping into your housing is thread depth. You want to be sure you have the correct tap. Standard taps are designed to be threaded all the way through something. In you application you are essentially making a "blind thread" meaning it will not go all the way through. You will need what is referred to as a bottoming tap. There are places that know their shit about taps like MSC, Travers, and JT tool. I hope this helps

Well , they dose make a 5/8 . So I would dose that size.:D