so who runs them? what i am curious about is the fact that CTM requires you to run alloy shafts with the dana 44 and those of us with d60's do not have that option. how does that work for the warranty?

if you don't have alloy front 60 axleshafts your wasting your money.the ears on the yoke will rip off and eject the ctm 60 joint.

Originally posted by onetonwillysands10
if you don't have alloy front 60 axleshafts your wasting your money.the ears on the yoke will rip off and eject the ctm 60 joint.

Ohh... that would SUCK!

You nkow the joint would probably be ok... just imagine not being able to find it. Then some other dude comes around the corner later and just happens to find it. "wow man! I got a free 5-332x CTM!"

Durham and Hamilton both run them w/o alloys. Hamilton has gotten his caps replaced on warranty I believe. He lost one when he blew a 35 spline stub, crazy bastard :D

Originally posted by bigdude
Durham and Hamilton both run them w/o alloys. Hamilton has gotten his caps replaced on warranty I believe. He lost one when he blew a 35 spline stub, crazy bastard :D

At the last Erocc event Hamilton said he has broken 6 35 spline 60 shafts this year:eek: :eek:

Originally posted by syko


At the last Erocc event Hamilton said he has broken 6 35 spline 60 shafts this year:eek: :eek:

Bawahahahahaha :laughing: Crazy Bastard :eek: I know I watched one explode at the Pro Rock event in Attica.

I keep thinking about this but I don't want to try it because I don't know enough about these things and don't want to ruin a new axle. Is there a way to harden the yokes yourself? I think you could temper them, but could you harden them?

you might talk to the guy, Bobby long, who does the work on the birfields ... he might have ideas.

- jack

I've been using CTM's with stock shafts(35spline outters) for about 8 month.
To fit the CTM full circle clips, you need to cut the inner surface of the yoke, weaking it even more. I choose not to cut the yoke, use the regular clips and tack weld the caps to the yoke. I haven't had any problems yet. Jack(@CTM) is working on some trick Alloy shafts(two piece, with removable yoke) that I plan on using, I heard Camo is looking at these shafts too(?).

Moser has new Dana 60 alloys inners and outers.

http://www.moserengineering.com/moser_interior/60_front_axels.htm

Yeah, but the yokes are not hardened :(

i agree with pyro i tacked my caps and haven't had any probs

High 5, Toby1 (Orange Blazer) was running those in Katemcy when he blew the ears off of the inner and outer and broke the draglink all at the same time at the top of your hill.
The joint was fine but needed 1 new cap. Jack sent 4 new ones under warranty.
The u-joints are well worth the money. I run them on my D44 and love them but if you get it then you need to go alloy

Originally posted by PYRO
Jack(@CTM) is working on some trick Alloy shafts(two piece, with removable yoke) that I plan on using,

tell me more!! i need these!!!!

Originally posted by Ricktard
Moser has new Dana 60 alloys inners and outers.

http://www.moserengineering.com/moser_interior/60_front_axels.htm

i have read on this board that the mosers are junk.

Originally posted by TheLakeRat
High 5, Toby1 (Orange Blazer) was running those in Katemcy when he blew the ears off of the inner and outer and broke the draglink all at the same time at the top of your hill.
The joint was fine but needed 1 new cap. Jack sent 4 new ones under warranty.
The u-joints are well worth the money. I run them on my D44 and love them but if you get it then you need to go alloy

yeah i remember and that is one reason i don't want to do the ctm's until i can get a good set of alloy shafts. with the warranty and all i probably can't go wrong just going ahead and getting a set though.

I've been using the CTM's from Jack for about two months and I'm using the stock shafts. I machined out the yokes and put the full circle snap rings in and they seem to hold up fine with an LT1 and 37" Krawlers. Jack told me on the phone about a month ago that these new shafts were on the way and were going to be chromoly as well.

my ctm's will be attached to 40 spline 1.75" 300m gun drilled shafts

( jack is still working on my yokes )

Originally posted by lt1wrangler
Jack told me on the phone about a month ago that these new shafts were on the way and were going to be chromoly as well.

Any idea on timing? I'll limp along my 35 spline stuff for the winter season w/o CTM's if Jack's axles will be hitting the market soon! Man I can't wait!

--D

Originally posted by RockRover


Any idea on timing? I'll limp along my 35 spline stuff for the winter season w/o CTM's if Jack's axles will be hitting the market soon! Man I can't wait!

--D

What are you talking about? Are you breaking 35 spline Dana 60's regularly? WTF?

40 spline good god!:eek:

Originally posted by camo
my ctm's will be attached to 40 spline 1.75" 300m gun drilled shafts

( jack is still working on my yokes )

Someone, a long time ago, posted a pic of a d60 u-joint yoke with splined ends that you could just get straight shafts made for to slip into them. I can't find that pic any more, but think they may have been by SunRay Eng. or something like that. Anyone know what I'm talking about?

J. J.

Originally posted by patooyee


Someone, a long time ago, posted a pic of a d60 u-joint yoke with splined ends that you could just get straight shafts made for to slip into them. I can't find that pic any more, but think they may have been by SunRay Eng. or something like that. Anyone know what I'm talking about?

J. J.

yes sunray uses a setup like that.

That is not the strongest setup I have seen....

However this is the latest from Sunray.....

totally bad ass (http://www.sunrayengineering.com)

Yes, that's what I was talking about. They look costly though?

J. J.

ya i have a setup like that in my garage. no thanks. they claim they have been doing it for years but i decided to have jack at ctm make me somthing a bit stronger.


fyi. those are spicer yokes from a crystler dana 80. 35 spline

O.K. folks, I emailed Jack last night after reading this. Here is the reply I just got



"I will have a sample of the first prototypes at the arca event this weekend
in johnson valley .I am looking for any ideas that may help make it
stronger.I plan to make a complete kit stub to stub or in pieces depending on
what you can afford.Right now the price for the complete set including
u-joints is about $3,500.00 , I hope to bring the cost down in the future but
that depends on demand and how fast I can make them.It took about 6 months to
come up with this design.I hope you like it. Jack."

WOW:eek:

Depdog

That's pretty cheap.:eek:

Guess 'ya gotta pay to play, huh?

Jesus :eek: I guess I'll just live vicariously through camo. That's $3500 I don't ever think I could spend.

does he take checks....

ya i just talked to him. i am stoked to finally get to hold some parts in my hands.

they still need to be broached,splined, deburred and heat treated but at least i have a part. :D

i'll post pics on monday when i get back from the hammers

Originally posted by patooyee


Someone, a long time ago, posted a pic of a d60 u-joint yoke with splined ends that you could just get straight shafts made for to slip into them. I can't find that pic any more, but think they may have been by SunRay Eng. or something like that. Anyone know what I'm talking about?

J. J.

I know what you are talking about. The thread is here. (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6708&highlight=sunray+AND+yoke)

the guys at OTT industries are doing the double splined 60 axles. they are making there own double 35 splined 4340 alloy shafts and then using a 3 or 5 ton yoke (can't remember) that accepts a 60 joint. then it uses u-joint straps so it is impossible for the caps to wonder out.

Originally posted by cornjeeper
the guys at OTT industries are doing the double splined 60 axles. they are making there own double 35 splined 4340 alloy shafts and then using a 3 or 5 ton yoke (can't remember) that accepts a 60 joint. then it uses u-joint straps so it is impossible for the caps to wonder out.

sounds like they are doing the same thing as sun ray and using spicer yokes. not a whole lot of point in using ctm joints or cro-mo axles if you are running spicer yokes since they will fail way before any of the 300m joints or cro-mo shafts.

i dont get it,, u buy 4130 d44 axle for 300$ or whatever,, when come to d60 axles 3500$$$ to get something that is stronger than stock i am totally confused...why is that we can put a hillbilly on the moon but to make a pair of axle shafts out of 4130 something stornger is a problem at least to get it for like 500$.. this is retarded,, i need to become a machinist

as for lt1wrangler(rusty i presume) your just not wheeling hard enough yet....

the way see it now(kinda cloudy) is that there is really no reason to upgrade from what im running now,, moser inners and stock spicer joint and 30 spline outers,, if get ctms then my 30 spline will still break, if upgrade to 35 spline outers and ctms them i will just shear the ears off,,,,seems much cheaper to just keep breaking 30 spline outers.. untill i can get some axles with some stronger ears...im done now off i go to work on my junk..

Hey Camo... buy gun drilling your shafts are you taking the abillity of "twist" out of the axle along with hardening that would cause a break to explode vs twist or shatter? I would love to hear that bad mother explode if it ever does...:eek:

Mike-

first off people need to under stand that these are still very proto type setups. they are extremely expensive because of the hundreds of hours spend proto typing them and cnc maching them they are made from 300m not 4130 or 4340. by the time they are ready for mass market they will be more in line with other 300m axles which will run around 700 to 1000 a pair for the axle and hopefully only another 1000 for 4 yokes.

when i set out to build my frond end i simply wanted the strongest, lightest most badass 60 in the nation. we shall see how it turns out


anyhow by gun drilling them it is for weight savings only. ( well ok it is to be cool as also. :D lets face it who else do you know with gundrilled axles.hehehehe ) the hole does not effect its ability to twist. with 300m material we can get 120 degrees of twist without breakage.

ok i dig it where is the waiting list... i need a bullet proof front axle so i can take bigdude to school....

Okay, smack me for being a dumb Dana 44 guy (I'll be ordering my CTM's this winter) but do you plan on capping the ends of the gundrilled titanium kryptonite alloy super double bling bling shafts? Or is the gear lube going to run out and lube the joints? Or are 60's so tough they don't need gear lube?

Originally posted by 4Bangler
do you plan on capping the ends of the gundrilled titanium kryptonite alloy super double bling bling shafts? Or is the gear lube going to run out and lube the joints? Or are 60's so tough they don't need gear lube?

Lube is overrated... except for the kind it'd take to get that kinda cash outta my wallet. Well... hell... I don't have that kinda cash anyway, so you couldn't grease it up enough to get it out. :)

You don't go all the way through, or if you do, you cap it. Most gundrilled axles I've seen, stop the gundrill just before getting to the flange.

I don't get it. I mean why is it you can take a dana 44 and buy moser alloys and ctm's, and it a dope set up, and when they come out with 60 stuff for 400 a pair wich is reasonable(not that jacks prices are not reasonable because i understand the work that goes into one pair) people are saying they are crap. I have head a whole bunch of crap on this board about them and they have only been out one month. Does anybody actually own them and use them, or test them in arca. I have heard there warenty sucks, but it is the same as warns warenty for there shats, and the same as the moser 44 stuff. It should all be relative, to 44 stuff if you use alloys with 297x your gunna fuck the yokes up, same with 60 if stock is combined with alloy shafts yokes distort when the joint goes. So what i am getting at is i would like to hear the story from someone who has wheeled HARD on a set of moser 60 alloys and CTM's. because i belive that that setup should be very bulletproof for 95% of us if it makes it as stron of an upgrade as alloys and ctms did for the 44.

my .02

Ian not andy

Originally posted by patooyee
Yes, that's what I was talking about. They look costly though?

J. J.

Sunray is going to provide these monster Knuckles for nearly the same as I paid for my D60 Chevy knuckles machined down to 6 on 5.5.

They are installing their first axle/new knuckle as we speak into the rear of a Sunray modified Scorpion.

These will be WAY less than $3500 added to YOUR axle.

Hell, I think you are nuts to pay $3500 for the CTM setup. Just convert to 35 spline and be done with it.

first off(somebody tell me if not right here,,been over this ten times this week maybe ill get it right) the moser shafts are not even a 4130 alloy they are 15somethin which may not be as strong as say the warn shafts, further more the ears are not hardened and thats why they distort,,i blew up a stub and the clips blasted off the joint,didnt even break the joint and the new spicer caps went in very easy,, now im only one person,, i think there was somebody else who sheared off the ears on the moser axles,,, it simple to assume that if the yokes are not hardened are not of high strength steel then they are going to SUCK...SO in conclusion i have wheeled my axles hard and the ears did stretch some,But i am still running the axle until it total wasted,, too poor to shell out 400$ again ?, I dont think that running a CTM would change anything..Until there are some axles worthy of such a Great joint

Originally posted by OTTERGONEJPN
first off(somebody tell me if not right here,,been over this ten times this week maybe ill get it right) the moser shafts are not even a 4130 alloy they are 15somethin which may not be as strong as say the warn shafts, further more the ears are not hardened and thats why they distort,,i blew up a stub and the clips blasted off the joint,didnt even break the joint and the new spicer caps went in very easy,, now im only one person,, i think there was somebody else who sheared off the ears on the moser axles,,, it simple to assume that if the yokes are not hardened are not of high strength steel then they are going to SUCK...SO in conclusion i have wheeled my axles hard and the ears did stretch some,But i am still running the axle until it total wasted,, too poor to shell out 400$ again ?, I dont think that running a CTM would change anything..Until there are some axles worthy of such a Great joint

Thanks that was strait forward like i was lookin for.

Ian-

Originally posted by wngrog


Sunray is going to provide these monster Knuckles for nearly the same as I paid for my D60 Chevy knuckles machined down to 6 on 5.5.

They are installing their first axle/new knuckle as we speak into the rear of a Sunray modified Scorpion.

These will be WAY less than $3500 added to YOUR axle.

Hell, I think you are nuts to pay $3500 for the CTM setup. Just convert to 35 spline and be done with it.

Nolen you know what it is like always breaking crap, those sunray outers sound like what avalache did to one of their beffy axles, and it is stronger, but the stuff that Jack is making i am willing to bet is 3 to 4 times stronger than the big sunray stuff, and when you may break on the trail and have to pull out your wrenches, which would make a crummy afternoon of wheeling, others may point out an obstacle or a whole day of comp which they cannot gain back and there supporting sponsors would not be to stoked about.
That is just how i take it, because of ARCA and other comp series there is a damand for stuff that will NEVER fail.

my .o2 once again


Ian not andy

Originally posted by OTTERGONEJPN
I dont think that running a CTM would change anything..Until there are some axles worthy of such a Great joint

AMEN, brother! Why the hell can't the manufacturers meet the demand in this scenario! I hope someone is reading this out there!

ATTENTION: Money to be made! Come collect!

J. J.

Originally posted by camo
first off people need to under stand that these are still very proto type setups. they are extremely expensive because of the hundreds of hours spend proto typing them and cnc maching them they are made from 300m not 4130 or 4340. by the time they are ready for mass market they will be more in line with other 300m axles which will run around 700 to 1000 a pair for the axle and hopefully only another 1000 for 4 yokes.

when i set out to build my frond end i simply wanted the strongest, lightest most badass 60 in the nation. we shall see how it turns out


anyhow by gun drilling them it is for weight savings only. ( well ok it is to be cool as also. :D lets face it who else do you know with gundrilled axles.hehehehe ) the hole does not effect its ability to twist. with 300m material we can get 120 degrees of twist without breakage.

120 degrees :eek:

Damn I wish I had those in dads station wagon...that woulda made the reverse/drive burnouts last much much longer.....


:flipoff2:

hey camo I think you should stuff those gundrilled shafts with hundred dolla bills foo. dat would be dope

Originally posted by Moab Austin
hey camo I think you should stuff those gundrilled shafts with hundred dolla bills foo. dat would be dope

I heard he's having them 24K gold plated fo da bling facta :word:

120 degrees... damn...and that is with them being Hardened??

Mike-

Originally posted by camo
ya i just talked to him. i am stoked to finally get to hold some parts in my hands.

they still need to be broached,splined, deburred and heat treated but at least i have a part. :D


Camo, I was at Jacks shop on wednesday and got to handle youre yokes.:flipoff2: They look real beafy.

I don't care how BEEFY they are, I don't think I would advertise the fact that I handled another man's YOKE:eek:

Ewewewwwweeee

Depdog:D

Originally posted by Depdog
I don't care how BEEFY they are, I don't think I would advertise the fact that I handled another man's YOKE:eek:

Ewewewwwweeee

Depdog:D

Thats the point. I got to it before he did:D

$3500!!!:eek: man i was thinking the warn d44 shafts were $600 a set so i was figuring the d60 shafts would be in the $800-$1000 range. i guess i'll just go 35 spline spicer and forget it if i have to spend that much.

Originally posted by patooyee


Someone, a long time ago, posted a pic of a d60 u-joint yoke with splined ends that you could just get straight shafts made for to slip into them. I can't find that pic any more, but think they may have been by SunRay Eng. or something like that. Anyone know what I'm talking about?

J. J.

Here's the e-mail that Lance Gilbert of SunRay sent to me when i asked him about those yokes:

"A572 its a stuctural steel that has 60-65 thousanth yield,(std yokes are less than 30) very strong. The u-bolt keeps them from spinning and distorting, these yokes have stoped any failures we had. What type of 60 do you have? Some of the knuckes require some machining to get the yokes to fit because they are larger. We use the Moser axles inner and outer, the outter ends up being like 9 and 5/8 on a chevy/ dodge style. They charge you just as much for that little piece as they do for the big ones so be prepaired. The yokes are about 158.00 a piece because we are building them in small quantities."

J. J.

Originally posted by patooyee


Here's the e-mail that Lance Gilbert of SunRay sent to me when i asked him about those yokes:

"A572 its a stuctural steel that has 60-65 thousanth yield,(std yokes are less than 30) very strong. The u-bolt keeps them from spinning and distorting, these yokes have stoped any failures we had. What type of 60 do you have? Some of the knuckes require some machining to get the yokes to fit because they are larger. We use the Moser axles inner and outer, the outter ends up being like 9 and 5/8 on a chevy/ dodge style. They charge you just as much for that little piece as they do for the big ones so be prepaired. The yokes are about 158.00 a piece because we are building them in small quantities."

J. J.

I did not opt for these when I got my Hybrid 609 made at Sunray. I don't think they are as strong as standard 35 spline D60/D70 stuff, but that is my opinion.

Of all the Sunray axles I wheel with, i have never witnessed one of their standard 35 spline outers break, but I have seen 2 of their earlier splined axles like Lance described above take a dump.

Not saying that that is the gospel, but I HAMMER my 35 spline stuff with 42's and I have not had a break.

Somebody chime on on gundrilling? How it works? I've heard the term plenty, why the funky name.

Originally posted by Slagburn
Somebody chime on on gundrilling? How it works? I've heard the term plenty, why the funky name.

gundrilling is called that because they drill a hole down a soild peice of bar stock just like a gun barrel.

Originally posted by 4Bangler
Okay, smack me for being a dumb Dana 44 guy (I'll be ordering my CTM's this winter) but do you plan on capping the ends of the gundrilled titanium kryptonite alloy super double bling bling shafts? Or is the gear lube going to run out and lube the joints? Or are 60's so tough they don't need gear lube?

after they are drilled you weld in a little plug.

Originally posted by KrustyKruiser
I don't get it. I mean why is it you can take a dana 44 and buy moser alloys and ctm's, and it a dope set up, and when they come out with 60 stuff for 400 a pair wich is reasonable(not that jacks prices are not reasonable because i understand the work that goes into one pair) people are saying they are crap. I have head a whole bunch of crap on this board about them and they have only been out one month. Does anybody actually own them and use them, or test them in arca. I have heard there warenty sucks, but it is the same as warns warenty for there shats, and the same as the moser 44 stuff. It should all be relative, to 44 stuff if you use alloys with 297x your gunna fuck the yokes up, same with 60 if stock is combined with alloy shafts yokes distort when the joint goes. So what i am getting at is i would like to hear the story from someone who has wheeled HARD on a set of moser 60 alloys and CTM's. because i belive that that setup should be very bulletproof for 95% of us if it makes it as stron of an upgrade as alloys and ctms did for the 44.

my .02

Ian not andy

sandy has a set of 35 spline moser shafts sitting in his shop and we have discussed them plenty. i would not call them JUNK but then again they were not made with the intention of being the strongest shaft possible. they lack in several areas. one is materials. they seem to be a comprimise between cost and strength. a axle built for ultimate strength would be made from 4340 or 300m. second the heat treating is far from ideal. they are induction heat treated instead of through heat treated and even at that they do no treat the ears because of the extra time and money it would cost. so in my opinion the moser shaft while not junk is far from a high performance unit. seems to me they are just trying to sell a "alloy axle" because they relize that for most people they will be good enuff. and they are probally correct.


oh and by the way i think the warn 44 shaft is better than the moser. ;)

Originally posted by bigdude


I heard he's having them 24K gold plated fo da bling facta :word:

trust me.....now that i have them in my possesion i assure you they do not need any gold plating to be the ultimate bling bling axle

when all else fail and you are ready for the ultimate .......................................

sorry about the blurry pics. i couldn't afford a good camera. :flipoff2:

fyi. yup thats a twisted 30 spline cro-mo shaft in the other pics. just shown for size comparesion to a 40 spline

Those are some beefy looking yolks!:eek:

Gun drilling has most of it's roots in drag cars where rotating enertia and general overall wieght is kept to a minimum to excel quickly.

It is not as forgiving with torsional twist as a solid shaft (think thin wall D.S.). It will twist a little, then fail catasrtophically.

So the trick is to go big. Camo, if you are going 40sp, you should be good to go.
jmo.