Before anyone tells me to search, I have, and read till my eyes bled. :flipoff2: I want to see some setups of what people are using to deal with axle wrap on Scout II's. I don't care what axles or drivetrain you are using, but what springs do you have and have you stretched the wheel base any. There are a ton of threads on anti-wrap bars in other forums, but I need to see what people have done, with exhaust and stuff for the scout II. Is it even possible to use a dual exhaust setup, or do you have to have a single driver side exhaust. Post up some pic's of what you have. Thanks!

Before anyone tells me to search, I have, and read till my eyes bled. :flipoff2: I want to see some setups of what people are using to deal with axle wrap on Scout II's. I don't care what axles or drivetrain you are using, but what springs do you have and have you stretched the wheel base any. There are a ton of threads on anti-wrap bars in other forums, but I need to see what people have done, with exhaust and stuff for the scout II. Is it even possible to use a dual exhaust setup, or do you have to have a single driver side exhaust. Post up some pic's of what you have. Thanks!

Really?....I mean Really, you searched and you read? I don't buy it!

First, putting a traction bar on anything is the same basic design, be it a Scout or a Camaro. So all that stuff you read on other forums applies. Second, your asking what springs people use to stretch their wheelbase, but you don't give us any idea of how much of a stretch you are looking for, so how is anybody suppose to be able to recommend you springs? Scout II's came from the factory with dual exhaust, so yeah I would pretty much assume it's possible. For you, I have no idea and frankly am surprised you were able to put a post together.

Really?....I mean Really, you searched and you read? I don't buy it!

First, putting a traction bar on anything is the same basic design, be it a Scout or a Camaro. So all that stuff you read on other forums applies. Second, your asking what springs people use to stretch their wheelbase, but you don't give us any idea of how much of a stretch you are looking for, so how is anybody suppose to be able to recommend you springs? Scout II's came from the factory with dual exhaust, so yeah I would pretty much assume it's possible. For you, I have no idea and frankly am surprised you were able to put a post together.

Thanks for the input. I am not looking to stretch my wheelbase, but I wanted to see if others have done it and how much that has affected their spring wrap issues. I know the 63" springs that people use have a ton of flex and have issues with the spring wrap, some people have used the chevy 56" springs and the ford 57" springs which have helped stretch their wheelbase with the offset pins. But, I want to see how people are mounting the forward point of the anti-wrap bar and the crossmember that they have fabbed up. I read your buildup of rockscout and saw what you did, but I wanted to get some more ideas and if people were able to make a anti-wrap bar fit with dual exhaust.

I am getting parts together to swap axles to a d70hd and a front d44 (I know I should just get a 60, but funds are limited). I have the axles and 37" tires with double beadlocks waiting, I am trying to see if I should just plan on building a wrap bar at the same time as the swap or if I will have to address exhaust issues first.

Thanks for the input. I am not looking to stretch my wheelbase, but I wanted to see if others have done it and how much that has affected their spring wrap issues. I know the 63" springs that people use have a ton of flex and have issues with the spring wrap, some people have used the chevy 56" springs and the ford 57" springs which have helped stretch their wheelbase with the offset pins. But, I want to see how people are mounting the forward point of the anti-wrap bar and the crossmember that they have fabbed up. I read your buildup of rockscout and saw what you did, but I wanted to get some more ideas and if people were able to make a anti-wrap bar fit with dual exhaust.

I am getting parts together to swap axles to a d70hd and a front d44 (I know I should just get a 60, but funds are limited). I have the axles and 37" tires with double beadlocks waiting, I am trying to see if I should just plan on building a wrap bar at the same time as the swap or if I will have to address exhaust issues first.

LOL that wasn't so hard!!

OK I'll play here's mine, the exhaust is dual 2.5" back to muffler then 3" out.

OK I'll play here's mine, the exhaust is dual 2.5" back to muffler then 3" out.

You forgot to put a shackle in there, it will never work:flipoff2::flipoff2:

I know this is not what you asked for, but are you sure that you will need a traction bar. I have an 80 with fullsize Blazer springs and have NO problems with axlewrap. I do have two "zero rate" springs on the bottom for some extra height but it does not seem to have hurt the axlewrap department. I run 38'' tires and can smash the skinny pedal as hard as I want on any terrain and NO wheel hop. I say keep the bar design in mind but only install it if you really need it.

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g149/prospectorc4/IMG_0151-Copy.jpg

IDScout was axle rap ever an issue with the 152, 38" tires and the skinny pedal:flipoff2:

Forgot the shackle ~humm~ maybe thats why the damn thing is flexy.

I know this is not what you asked for, but are you sure that you will need a traction bar. I have an 80 with fullsize Blazer springs and have NO problems with axlewrap. I do have two "zero rate" springs on the bottom for some extra height but it does not seem to have hurt the axlewrap department. I run 38'' tires and can smash the skinny pedal as hard as I want on any terrain and NO wheel hop. I say keep the bar design in mind but only install it if you really need it.

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g149/prospectorc4/IMG_0151-Copy.jpg

I know the axle wrap will be an issue. Right now I am running stock springs with an add-a-leaf to stiffen them up AND an extra full length leaf that I cut the eyes off of. With the wider/heavier axles and tires axle wrap will be more of an issue than it is now.

Glad to see you posting up:flipoff2: I got some good pic's just need to dig them up. I switched over to Chevy Suburban rear springs, same length, but they have a huge overload and thats been my anti wrap.:laughing: Billiavists is hooky at best.

Heres a couple off the net.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=391036&stc=1&d=1221447622

See how they did not weld one side to the pumpkin, better to have one side welded to the housing and the other on the tube.

Thanks for the reply Craig. I talked to you about your springs in Hollister and was debating making the swap, but I just like how flexy the stockers are, granted they have a few extra leaves now but they are already on the scout :D. I know the stock springs will eventually die, but I think an anti-wrap bar will help them last a while longer. (Especially since the d70 has a welded carrier.)

I saw Rocktractor's anti-wrap bar back in july and was trying to figure out if it would have fit with dual exhaust or not. The mounting on the axle is easy to figure out, but I want to see some pic's of the crossmember at the forward mounting of the anti wrap bar.

Ladder Bar (http://www.tmcom.com/~tsm1/postnuke/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=160)

Works fine. I can finally run 2wd with the Terra tires and it doesn't just sit still and shake - it digs trenches now.

http://whiteknucklemotorsports.net/gallery/albums/scout80ss/2008_oct20_canon_008.sized.jpg

tough to see but I just used a piece of pipe between the two spring hangers, it is flanged on the ends. The flange has two holes, one is the spring bolt and the other just goes through the hanger. No it's not an SII

I could not find the originals as I could have cleaned them up so you could see it better.

You will need to add a cross member or work off the existing one. The springs you have are fine. There no better or worse than any other leaf spring thats for sure. Sound like you got them beefed up with an extra leaf which is all they really need.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=218812&d=1134362235

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=218816&d=1134362585

Thanks for the pic's. Keep them coming.

IDScout was axle rap ever an issue with the 152, 38" tires and the skinny pedal:flipoff2:

Forgot the shackle ~humm~ maybe thats why the damn thing is flexy.

Oh how I remember the rattle can death trap don't dare drive over 40mph for fear of EXTREME death wobble 152'd 2.5 speed 29''p-rated bald tired Scout I started with. Those were the days.......don't remember any axlewrap then either. :flipoff2::flipoff2:

Mine.Post#67
http://www.justih.org/Binder-Bench/showthread.php?t=7352&page=3

Mine.Post#67
http://www.justih.org/Binder-Bench/showthread.php?t=7352&page=3

That is by FAR the most different solution that I have seen! How is it holding up? And if you had to do it over again, would you do it the same way?

I had mad wrap issues (63" chevy's)

That is by FAR the most different solution that I have seen! How is it holding up? And if you had to do it over again, would you do it the same way?

Love it and wouldnt change a thing.The main reason for me doing it that way was because I built a fuel tank between the frame rails and didnt have the clearance for the longer style off the axle tube.

That is by FAR the most different solution that I have seen! How is it holding up? And if you had to do it over again, would you do it the same way?



There is at least one thread on this board discussing it. I think they call it a Bam Bar.

Here's the pic's from the boys up north.

http://www.justih.org/Binder-Bench/attachment.php?attachmentid=8233&d=1205205088

http://www.justih.org/Binder-Bench/attachment.php?attachmentid=8234&d=1205205088

http://www.justih.org/Binder-Bench/attachment.php?attachmentid=8235&d=1205205088

http://www.justih.org/Binder-Bench/attachment.php?attachmentid=8236&d=1205205088

Thanks to everyone who posted up. Does anyone have any pic's of a scout II with a traction bar AND dual exhaust?

I have 4" lift skyjacker springs and I have not stretched it. Im also running dual exhaust.

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa233/dannyisrael_2007/IMG_4549.jpg

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa233/dannyisrael_2007/IMG_4552.jpg
damn looks like its time for a lock nut
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa233/dannyisrael_2007/IMG_4553.jpg

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa233/dannyisrael_2007/IMG_4559.jpg

Having the bar close to the driveline should give room for the exhaust.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_YNaTlxPI9Lg/SWtRKVA3vvI/AAAAAAAAAQ4/JcJNHNxUTf8/s640/DSC00597.JPG

I have 4" lift skyjacker springs and I have not stretched it. Im also running dual exhaust.

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa233/dannyisrael_2007/IMG_4549.jpg

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa233/dannyisrael_2007/IMG_4552.jpg


Might need more bugger welding on that upper link.

I have 4" lift skyjacker springs and I have not stretched it. Im also running dual exhaust.

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa233/dannyisrael_2007/IMG_4549.jpg



Maybe I am missing something, but don't you need to have TWO points of attachment on the axle to prevent axle-wrap? How is this setup working out for you?

I have 4" lift skyjacker springs and I have not stretched it. Im also running dual exhaust.

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa233/dannyisrael_2007/IMG_4549.jpg

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa233/dannyisrael_2007/IMG_4552.jpg
damn looks like its time for a lock nut
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa233/dannyisrael_2007/IMG_4553.jpg

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa233/dannyisrael_2007/IMG_4559.jpg


If you make a piece that welds to the truss and bolts to the pinion support, it would be a great place to add a second point of attachment to stop all axle wrap.

It works perfect. No, you don't need two points unless you are running coil over type suspensions,

All you need is something to keep the axle from twisting up or down.


It does not need to be overly compilcated just remember these 4 words and it will all fall in to place, "KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID.":)

Might need more bugger welding on that upper link.

You know, If you are such a bad ass lets see your rig or at least offer some good tech. All you do is make rude remarks and criticize.:flipoff2:

you know, if you are such a bad ass lets see your rig or at least offer some good tech. All you do is make rude remarks and criticize.:flipoff2:

ohhh snap!!!!!!!!

ohhh snap!!!!!!!!

Yeah, thats what those ?welds? are going to do alright.


And PLEASE put a longer bolt in the bottom link.

FOOD FIGHT!!!!!!!!!!:laughing::laughing::laughing:

And PLEASE put a longer bolt in the bottom link.[/QUOTE]



I did not realize that the nut has backed off. I will be putting a lock nut on that. I actually haven't looked at it since I put installed it in April.:eek:

It works perfect. No, you don't need two points unless you are running coil over type suspensions,

All you need is something to keep the axle from twisting up or down.


Wrong.

You need three attachment points for a ladder bar to work - period. One frame side, two on the axle (or one fixed mount - no pivots or bushing)

You're using your leaf springs as part of your anti-wrap setup, and it's working fine for you because a) your springs are too stiff or b) you don't have enough b1) tire or b2) motor to make it wrap.

But a single link doesn't do much except stress your leaf springs some more.

And PLEASE put a longer bolt in the bottom link.



I did not realize that the nut has backed off. I will be putting a lock nut on that. I actually haven't looked at it since I put installed it in April.:eek:

Glad I could help:smokin:

It works perfect. No, you don't need two points unless you are running coil over type suspensions,

All you need is something to keep the axle from twisting up or down.


It does not need to be overly compilcated just remember these 4 words and it will all fall in to place, "KEEP IT SIMPLY STUPID.":)

Fixed!

wrong.

You need three attachment points for a ladder bar to work - period. One frame side, two on the axle (or one fixed mount - no pivots or bushing)

you're using your leaf springs as part of your anti-wrap setup, and it's working fine for you because a) your springs are too stiff or b) you don't have enough b1) tire or b2) motor to make it wrap.

But a single link doesn't do much except stress your leaf springs some more.

x2

Its not a latter bar like some of the ones others posted. Being mounted up extra high gives it more leverage that's for sure. It's more like a link that holds the axle from twisting. Worst case it comes loose and I've see that happen even on latter bar ones. Not much different then the one post on the JustIH site thats now seems to be gone.(edit.. its back up)

Can't tell for sure but the pinion might be a bit high. But hey anybody running 37" Pitbull rockers and Hutchinson aluminum bead locks on a Scout is ok with me:D

I just received my e-bay $18 backup camera and will mount it down under to see if my axle needs an anti wrap bar. It will be a few day as the Scout still needs some love after last weekend on the Rubicon.

Looking at Danny's bar it looks like it'll control axle wrap but also bind the hell out of the suspension since there's no swing arm to permit the springs to travel through their natural arc. As the axle moves downward the bar is going to force it to move forward.

Anyone else have pic's of their anti wrap setup that they want to post up? Looks like people are at least trying some new ideas out besides the standard ladder bar. Anyone have a ladder bar and dual exhaust?

Love it and wouldnt change a thing.The main reason for me doing it that way was because I built a fuel tank between the frame rails and didnt have the clearance for the longer style off the axle tube.and that gives you enough travel for rear suspension and flex? How long is the top from bushing to bushing?

Love it and wouldnt change a thing.The main reason for me doing it that way was because I built a fuel tank between the frame rails and didnt have the clearance for the longer style off the axle tube.

It's a bam bar. http://www.jeepaholics.com/tech/bambar/

Some peopl say it doesn't work, but it's probably better than not having one if you don't have room for a traditional traction bar.

Doesn't matter if it's a jeep or a scout, concept is still the same, and space is limited.
There's all kinds of different ideas, here's a few alternatives:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=335637&highlight=axle+wrap

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=332171

I've got a feelin' that I will need a traction bar once I get the Scout fully operational. I'll have the same problem as RickWestra, I got a big fuel tank between the frame rails in front of the axle. If I can fit a longer traditional antiwrap traction bar I will, but I might try a bam bar...dunno.

and that gives you enough travel for rear suspension and flex? How long is the top from bushing to bushing?

Plenty of travel and flex.poser shot (http://www.justih.org/photopost/showphoto.php/photo/5920/cat/500/perpage/18/ppuser/80)
From bushing to bushing is about 12 inches.

Plenty of travel and flex.poser shot (http://www.justih.org/photopost/showphoto.php/photo/5920/cat/500/perpage/18/ppuser/80)
From bushing to bushing is about 12 inches.

Hmmmm... one foot doesn't seem to be enough, but then again that's about a foot up then a foot down. That seems right...

I like the idea of the bam bar because of space! (freids truck)

But my truck I have plenty of room for a regular anti wrap bar. I like the regular anti wrap bar because it can double as a skid plate or at least protection of the drive shaft. So what's the rules or guidlines for this. Like rear should be center of the axle up to center of front of the leaf springs?

Should the axle tubes be welded to the center housing?

I guess you could really run two if you wanted, one on each side and plate the middle for a full skid... but then it would only work for flex if the front had one mount... two would bind... :homer:

I gust hope I helped you out with some alternatives. :D

You did. I think that I will do something similar to yours, but with a forward shackle and I will try and get someone to weld a plate to the diff to make a second attachment point at the axle. Definitely gave me some ideas though.

I gust hope I helped you out with some alternatives. :D

I can help you with your spelling if you like:homer:
And maybe someone can offer you some help with your welding, or lack of welding skillz

Edit...
Should the axle tubes be welded to the center housing?


Yes, or weld one of the perches to the housing and the second to the tube. This way your grabbing both. It you just weld it to the tube it won't be long before the rosette welds start to leak and then your just a wheeling trip away from the tube spinning in the housing.
To protect the drive line the closer you have the bar the better, so another reason to weld one to the housing and one to the tube:D

Wrong.

You need three attachment points for a ladder bar to work - period. One frame side, two on the axle (or one fixed mount - no pivots or bushing).


I didn't read where he said it was a ladder bar so how is he wrong???

In my experience some setups will work to control wrap better than others and USUALLY the better the wrap control the more of a restriction or bind. If you can do as little as possible to control the wrap and have it work for your setup then mission accomplished.

being that ive used just about every kind of anti wrap setup i will say this. the bam bar works excellent but if you have any real power you need to make that upper shackle very strong. i prefer 3/8" thick material. and the plate welded to the pumpkin needs to be better reinforced. simply welding a 2x4 flat plate to the center will end up ripping right off. id suggest a truss of some sort.maybe even tie into a strong diff cover. its very easy on a 9" rear as you can weld a shark fin all the way down the rear if ya want.

if your gonna use a typical style setup then mount it on the passenger side as close to center as possible. and id stay away from weling it to the center it will end up ripping off.
im saying this cuz ive had all these problems.
oh and i didnt check the links but theres a cable version that works ok on low hp toyota applications but stretched and broke on my rig no matter what size cable i used.

Costs if you buy premade parts. some items you have to buy, other you can cut and drill to save a few bucks.

$37 Johnny joint (http://www.currieenterprises.com/cestore/Product.aspx?id=1167)

http://www.currieenterprises.com/cestore/images/product//currie/ce9112.jpg

$74 for an axle kit from Ruff Stuff (http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/antiwraptraction-complete-system-p-168.html).

http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/images/Antiwrap%20traditional%20kit.jpg

http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/images/4%20inch%20shackel.jpg


You can make some parts.
DOM tubing. from polyperformance (http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/2.00-X-.250-Wall-DOM-Tubing-p-389.html)http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/images/P/t_389.jpg

these are only $10 bucks, and worth it.
http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/Poly-Performance-Bushing-Kits-p-16605.html

Thanks for the links. Is there a reason people use DOM for their anti-wrap bars instead of just using square .25" wall thickness box tubing? Seems like it would be much cheaper and still adequate in terms of strength.

You can use sch40 pipe if you want :D It's the attachment points that tear loose vs the bar getting tweaked. 1/4" sq tubing is some heavy stuff and my pig is already fat. :laughing:

Edit.. I use the 2"x.250 DOM for making bushings. The YJ bushing are dirt cheap and are 1.5" so the 2" DOM works perfact or you can use the 1.75"x.120" wall DOM too