Im looking to build a Formula 4 out of my 85 ext cab and have a few qustions.

I want to build the 4 because i prefer the longer wheelbase and i HAVE to have a back seat for my 2 young kids. I seen one buildup where they put the backseat in a stock size F chassis but it seemed a bit tight.

I keep reading that the Forumla 4 is not capable enough to be competitive in the Ftoy class.

The plan for me is to Compete at every west coast event in 2010. Understandably im not expecting to win :laughing: but i really dont want to be driving home and kicking my self in the ass for not building a smaller chassis to stay competitive.

Some questions i have.

- Is the extra wheelbase hinder that much ability comapared to the smaller chassis?

- How much $ after the chassis would you estimate to finish building the Ftoy? ( My rig is 100%built from axels up )

- If you could reasonably afford it would you spring for the 4130 tig welded chassis?

My goal is to build a 4 seater that could be loaded up with camping gear and the family on the weekends and yet still be very competitive when race day came.

My interent connection is very limited so it takes about 10 minutes for any page to load, so i have searched as best i could. Thanks for any and all help. Look forward to competing against you guys in 2010. I have 2 private courses to practice on too. :flipoff2:

You are right--a back seat in the standard F-Toy chassis will be pretty tight. Mine isn't installed yet, but I'm shoehorning a flip/fold TJ back seat into my standard Chassis, and it'll have quite a bit less leg room and head height than my 4Runner.

I haven't competed, but I believe that an F-Four would be less maneuverable on a comp course because of the longer wheelbase/wider turning radius.

The chassis isn't really the limiting factor--it's the frame. The framerails kick up at the back axle and limit interior space.

How about taking a longbed/xtracab frame and setting a standard FToy chassis on it? From what I've seen, most Comp FToys are running ~5" TG rear leaves (or equivalent), and uptravel wouldn't be an extreme issue. Or...maybe take the same longbed/xtracab frame and shorten it ~5"...just to push the framerail kickup farther back than the stdcab/4Runner frames.

From my understanding of the rules, you can't take away anything from the standard FToy chassis, but nothing says you can't add more rear cage to keep your kiddos safe when you push that rear seat back (while keeping the overall chassis length at 153"). Losekannon's FToy has the rear diagonal down bars removed and taller hoops added (not legal, per my understanding)--you'd have to leave those bars and add more tubing above them/extend the roofline.

As the only person running an F4 in comp I will say that there are times it can be an advantage but more often the length will hurt. I dont think that the longer chassis will prevent a person from winning, I finished ahead of quite a few short wheelbases at Reno and broke before the one obstacle I had an advantage on.. I will be running my F4 next season in all the west events and plan to kick all your arses.:flipoff2: Selectable lockers are a must with the longer wheelbase and a front line lock. Cost? I started with nothing and have less than $10K into my rig (but mine is pretty ghetto fab), if your already have a "fully built" rig I would say budget $3K. Yes I would spring for the chromo chassis, skip the dash bar and grill hoop and give it your own touch. Good luck with your build!

I installed a yj rear seat in my f-toy. My kids are 12 and 7. every thing is cool except for the bar i installed behind the front seats for the seat harnesses.The bar is too low, and coflicts with the knees of the rear passingers. If i had put more thought into it i would have bent the rear bar upwards, and given them more room, however i was trting to get redy for comp at the time and know the kids are paying for it.

Thanks for the info guys. Look forward to competing against you guys next year.

Im still very undesided on what to get. If i buy from Hendrix than ill get the F4 if i find one used or trade than ill take whatever i can get.

I also just put my rig up for trade for a ftoy if anybody is intrested.

http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?p=10312023#post10312023

:D Some good pics of my wife in the thread also.

After reading a few builds it seems to take most quite a bit of time to do the buildup. My biggest concern is to be without a rig for a few months.

I have no problem building most of it but im afraid of wiring. Would it be dumb to leave the wiring harness fully intact and just "hide" the wires?

If you are scared of wiring go with propane and it is very easy. For comps propane illiminates the spill factor too.

Check out the 22R to 22RE swap thread on the Pickup and 4Runner forum. It covers most of the wiring--explains all the necessary parts.

90-up engine harnesses are separate from the body harness.

Edit: After checking out your For Sale thread, strip off the body, sell it whole--somebody has rolled theirs and would need one. Sell the flatbed whole.

Unplug all your harness wires and set the chassis in place.

If you don't want a lot of sheetmetal in the passenger compartment, you could have it swapped in about a month.

If you are scared of wiring go with propane and it is very easy. For comps propane illiminates the spill factor too.

I ran Propane on a rig a few years ago and didnt really like it. It ran great but i hate the smell of propane and it had a 350 so it was a pain in the ass to carry spare tanks on the trail.

Check out the 22R to 22RE swap thread on the Pickup and 4Runner forum. It covers most of the wiring--explains all the necessary parts.

90-up engine harnesses are separate from the body harness.

Edit: After checking out your For Sale thread, strip off the body, sell it whole--somebody has rolled theirs and would need one. Sell the flatbed whole.

Unplug all your harness wires and set the chassis in place.

If you don't want a lot of sheetmetal in the passenger compartment, you could have it swapped in about a month.


Thanks for the advice. Pretty postive im going this route. Im on disability right now for a few months so this would be a nice project to help take up some time.

-------------- Another question

Are front/rear suckdown winchs legal?

Is anybody running 63" chevy springs? i dont plan on running them but kinda curious if anybody did.

Any advice on what size fuel cell to run?

Does anybody know the weight differance between the Hrew chassis and the 4130? I looked and have not found an answer. Ill call Hendrix today to find out.

Im in the process of buying a new house so thats the only thing keeping me from biting the bullet on a new chassis. It will be soon though.

Are front/rear suckdown winchs legal? Yes, very much

Is anybody running 63" chevy springs? i dont plan on running them but kinda curious if anybody did. Lord Orange was putting them on his rig, but I don't think it's completed yet. Rear departure angle would fully suck--they'd stick out 6" behind the back of the chassis. I like them on my 4Runner, but wouldn't put them on a buggy. Go for some 2wd springs or some 3" or 5" TG or Davez springs. I also tried stock Rears, inboarded with 2 extra leaves--but I had to run too tall of a shackle, and the axle walked a lot on stuff/droop.

Any advice on what size fuel cell to run? For comps, you don't need much. For trail running, compare it to your stock tank. Pretty easy to go a full weekend on one tank with the 22RE.

Does anybody know the weight differance between the Hrew chassis and the 4130? I looked and have not found an answer. Ill call Hendrix today to find out. I doubt it's much.

Im in the process of buying a new house so thats the only thing keeping me from biting the bullet on a new chassis. It will be soon though. It's a fun project, but honestly, the place your family lives is more important!
.

Same weight, but the moly will hold up better.

youll want ARBs front and rear. this is an absolute advantage and with the competition so tight in that class, youll need it.

id say you wont even be competetive without the air lockers, but then someone will chime in that was on the podium with detroits...:flipoff2:

i did a calrocs event in an Ftoy...get ready to have fun, not necessarily from the competition(i dont really think i liked it), but from the Ftoy, best bang for the buck!

I have F005. I've been wheelin mine at the Hammers for about two years now. I didn't do the cleanest build because I wanted to get back on the trail as soon as possible. Now I'm having to go back through and rebuild a lot of what I'm not happy with.

As far as being capable, I don't see any reason why you couldn't give the short wheelbase rigs a run for their money. If you have the driving skills you'll be fine. I've done every trail I've put my FFour on without any real trouble (except for Backdoor so fuck that trail). The only other place I've ever broken anything was at Calico. I broke a hub which ground down the splines on my Longfield and ruined it. After a comp at Cougar Buttes I went out and ran comp courses just for shits and giggles. The only obvious problem I had was having to make multiple 3,4 or,5 point turns because of my welded rear, Lock Rite front and long wheelbase.

As for rear passenger area, I have plenty space. I'm 5'7", 160lbs and I can sit in any seat comfortably. I've had guys over 6' in the back seat. It's not the most comfortable thing for them but no one complains. The back seat if fine for kids. I put a PRP bench seat in the rear. In hind sight, I wish I would have put individual bucket seats. The bench seat sags in the middle. Individual buckets would be more comfortable and provide better support.

Mine is built on a 1981 Long bed frame.

This is when I broke the hub:
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p31/chvyhs/Calico%20Trip%20Mar09/100_0630.jpg