well sold my 500hp big block camaro and im looking for a big lifted truck again for driving in the winter as our winters were i live we got LOTS of snow...

my old 2wd car sucked and i live out in the middle of nowere compared to living in a small town when i had my other car so a 4x4 i think is a must !!

down to the good stuff now..

got a line on a 78 chevy pick up..

454, th-400, 205 t-case, d60 front and d70 rear with 410 gears, on 40" tsl's it got a 12" lift he says.....

just curious is that enough gear with that setup ? also what kinda milage you think it would be ? i mean ya i know it a big block and 40" tires... but im talking like i dont wanna be putting in like 40 bucks every other day to go to work type deal..

i drive 20mins in the summer for work, winter usually takes 40mins or more depends on weather...

here are some pics, let me know what are the good and bad about all of this, along with what to look for on the truck and etc, oh and he is wanting 5,000 cdn for the truck.. (i live in ontario)

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a209/89_Jeeper/10575df_20.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a209/89_Jeeper/1576j5m_20.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a209/89_Jeeper/5238n0j_20.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a209/89_Jeeper/9767jk3_20.jpg

Id buy it. Lower it like 6 inchs and be happy.

Price, depends on your local market. Here in Ca you can pick up clean rust free K30's (gas or diesel) for about $3-$4k without looking too hard. Obviously you are not near here, so the price depends on what its worth to you. I just picked up my crew cab im starting to build for $3k and its super clean.

As far as gears, id change those 4.10's with the quickness.
Compared to running stock size tires (32") with 4.10 if you have 37" tires you would be around 4.88 gears if my rudimentary math is correct. So for running 40's with 4.10 you will be bogging that thing bad. Plus the 205 has a lame Low gear ratio, 1.8? Rock crawler its not.

Street and fun in the snow you will probably be ok, but likely you will want some sort of locker so when you do that id suggest changing your gear ratio.

just found the gear ratio calc.
http://www.grimmjeeper.com/gears.html

well i was thinking maybe yank out the body lift as im sure it has one by the looks of the pics i think, and change from a 40" to a 38" maybe..

Price, depends on your local market. Here in Ca you can pick up clean rust free K30's (gas or diesel) for about $3-$4k without looking too hard. Obviously you are not near here, so the price depends on what its worth to you. I just picked up my crew cab im starting to build for $3k and its super clean.

As far as gears, id change those 4.10's with the quickness.
Compared to running stock size tires (32") with 4.10 if you have 37" tires you would be around 4.88 gears if my rudimentary math is correct. So for running 40's with 4.10 you will be bogging that thing bad. Plus the 205 has a lame Low gear ratio, 1.8? Rock crawler its not.

Street and fun in the snow you will probably be ok, but likely you will want some sort of locker so when you do that id suggest changing your gear ratio.

just found the gear ratio calc.
http://www.grimmjeeper.com/gears.html

ya i figured it be ok for driving to and form work in winter and etc and i figured with that 454 big block it should be able to turn them tires easily i would think..

205 ratio is 1.96 to 1. it should turn those tires fine with the big block. it's not gonna be the easiest on gas but shouldn't be too bad if you keep your foot out of it.

what kind of steering setup does it have? looks like a big block of some sort.

seems a bit high depending on the exchange rate.

205 ratio is 1.96 to 1. it should turn those tires fine with the big block. it's not gonna be the easiest on gas but shouldn't be too bad if you keep your foot out of it.

what kind of steering setup does it have? looks like a big block of some sort.

seems a bit high depending on the exchange rate.

well it like a hour from me so exchange rate dont matter right... also dont know of the steering setup on it..

and as well it does have a big block it got a chevy 454 big block motor in it ;)

also i did think since it got a th400 tranny which is only a 3spd, i thought maybe a 700 r4 would be better but i dont think it gonna be strong enough behind a big block like that .. lol

You cannot use the words "big blocks" and "fuel efficiency" together in the same sentence.

Expect to get around 10 mpg, if your lucky. I get 5. And it doesn't matter how easy I am on the gas.

I ran 38.5s with 3.73 gears for a while. Can do. better, much better after 4.56 swap.

You cannot use the words "big blocks" and "fuel efficiency" together in the same sentence.

Expect to get around 10 mpg, if your lucky. I get 5. And it doesn't matter how easy I am on the gas.

I ran 38.5s with 3.73 gears for a while. Can do. better, much better after 4.56 swap.

well my big block camaro had over 500hp and it had a 3spd with a 28" tire and 308 gears and would get like 400km to a tank of fuel with a .5" fuel line lol.. so i think thats pretty good for a big block dont you ? lmao..

sorry, big block on the steering knuckle. look close at the pic.

sorry, big block on the steering knuckle. look close at the pic.

hmm, looks like a shawdow ??? how can you get away with a big block put in there like that ??

like how are they suppose to be normally ?

it does not have crossover if thats what you mean. i dunno, even if you step down to 38s you will still be sucking down gas. 10 on the freeway if you're lucky.

it does not have crossover if thats what you mean. i dunno, even if you step down to 38s you will still be sucking down gas. 10 on the freeway if you're lucky.

no free way here... i drive down back roads, and usually only drive like 80km or less in winter..

summer time it take me like 15mins winter usually takes like 40ish mins maybe.. so it aint a far drive at all....

ya i figured it be ok for driving to and form work in winter and etc and i figured with that 454 big block it should be able to turn them tires easily i would think..

yeah i ran 373s and 38 inch tires and it was perfect in my opinion. i was running a strong 400ci engine it was kinda like stock. and i liked the fact i could actually take it 60mph on the highway and not be at 3000rpms

yeah i ran 373s and 38 inch tires and it was perfect in my opinion. i was running a strong 400ci engine it was kinda like stock. and i liked the fact i could actually take it 60mph on the highway and not be at 3000rpms

exactly what i was thinking... 40" tires with 410 i think it said something like 2200rpm or something at 65mph.. our speed limit is like 80km which is around 50mph..

Judging from the home made square tube body lift with uncapped ends, I'd want to give the rest of the truck a very close look over, odds are there's alot of other half assed stuff on there.
Even with a relatively low criuse rpm, you're still going to get crap for mileage, think 10-11 imperial MPG, which works out to about 280-290km per 75L tank.
That's pretty much what my 460 used to get, crusing at 85-90kph, and it's in a much lower truck(3" BL only,) with a 4 speed and 4.10's, on 38.5 skinnies. Most of my other wheelin buddies don't even bother calculating mileage, especially those with big blocks, I just am crazy and drive mine 60+ miles to the trail sometimes... LOL

exactly what i was thinking... 40" tires with 410 i think it said something like 2200rpm or something at 65mph.. our speed limit is like 80km which is around 50mph..

As far as street driving you will be fine with that gearing, but don't forget your speedometer/odometer will be way off, so use your gps or install the correct ratio converter on the speedometer cable. You'll be going a whole lot faster than the speedometer tells you with those tires, but 2200 rpm is about right for that tire and gear ratio.

The TH400 has the worst first gear ratio of any GM trans ever made, 2.48:1 (same as the 4L80E). That's way too high to do any good in any truck.
The 700r4 has a 3.06 first gear which will be much quicker off the line and more fun to drive.

A 700r4 can handle as much power as you can make, but only if you have enough money to build it that way. It will also lower your cruise rpm at 60 to about 1530 or so, depending on your air pressure and rolling radius of the tire. If it's a stock 454, it should be able to pull that because peak torque is around 1600 rpm.

One other thing, I really doubt it's a Dana 70 in the back, it's probably a 10.5" 14 bolt GM. Only big difference is available gear ratios, 3.42 through 5.38 for the GM and 3.54 through 7.17 or so for the Dana 70.

edit: Just looked at your original post, and if you want if primarily for driving on the street in the winter, it is not the way to go. Those tires will suck, as will the steering. If you're driving in deep fresh powder, it'll do far better. Super wide Super Swampers under a super high lift are not ideal for snow/slush road driving.

Those big TSLs will bring the suck in the worst way on snow covered roads. Did you ever wonder why so many people take them off in the winter and run regular snow tires?

funny that everyone tells me that tsl arent good in winter and what not..

i had 35x16x15 boggers on my old lifted rig, and i never had a problem, they worked GREAT in winter over here...

and yup i realize the speedo will be totally off, which is why i watch either the tach or my GPS when i have it in there, that or put the GPS in test it for 50km, 80km and 100km, and then watch what rpms i should be at for certian speeds ;)

well im just going by what the owner told me in the email for what axles were in it and etc, ? so might be something else maybe it is a d70 i dunno..

when i go over and look at it, i will be sure to take my camera and take some pics of the axles and some other stuff for you guys to see whats all on it and see what you all think of it..

and im not worried about milage as my summer truck is really good on gas... i just dont wanna be putting like 40 bucks worth of fuel every day or so type thing you know lol.. hehehe...

Sounds like you found your truck then, just be sure to check out the body lift and steering setup like the other guys suggested. You don't want any block over 3" tall between the knuckle and the steering arm, and it really needs studs if it has one, not bolts.

Sounds like you found your truck then, just be sure to check out the body lift and steering setup like the other guys suggested. You don't want any block over 3" tall between the knuckle and the steering arm, and it really needs studs if it has one, not bolts.

ya ok, when i get over and look at it, i will take a few pics for you guys to check out stuff like that and see what you think it if "safe" type deal and or what to change on it and etc..

why is it not good to have a open boxed body lift ?? even if it was like a 3" rectangle block with like a 1/4" wall or something.. ?

[QUOTE=89_why is it not good to have a open boxed body lift ?? even if it was like a 3" rectangle block with like a 1/4" wall or something.. ?[/QUOTE]

You'll get as many opinions about this as anything else, but there is nothing unsafe about using steel over a purchased body lift kit. The problem would be in how it's all connected together, and how much flat surface is contacting the frame and the body mount. But, anyone who tells you that using steel there isn't as safe as using purchased body lift blocks, just because it's steel, and not a purchased body lift, is... misinformed.

It can be done safely, it's just that it usually isn't. Pictures should make it pretty clear if it is or isn't safe. Oh, and as for the rear, unless you plan on installing gears lower than 5.38, it really makes no difference which one ton rear it is.

You'll get as many opinions about this as anything else, but there is nothing unsafe about using steel over a purchased body lift kit. The problem would be in how it's all connected together, and how much flat surface is contacting the frame and the body mount. But, anyone who tells you that using steel there isn't as safe as using purchased body lift blocks, just because it's steel, and not a purchased body lift, is... misinformed.

It can be done safely, it's just that it usually isn't. Pictures should make it pretty clear if it is or isn't safe. Oh, and as for the rear, unless you plan on installing gears lower than 5.38, it really makes no difference which one ton rear it is.

aww, ok got ya ! well i also thought about if i bought it to take it to my buddies place and get him to gimme a hand to yank out the steel body lift and set it back down were it is from the factory, and then if tires are too big to down to a 38" tire..

aww, ok got ya ! well i also thought about if i bought it to take it to my buddies place and get him to gimme a hand to yank out the steel body lift and set it back down were it is from the factory, and then if tires are too big to down to a 38" tire..

...or just cut away that pesky sheet metal and keep the 40's!:D

...or just cut away that pesky sheet metal and keep the 40's!:D

lol or that too, all depends if there enough room after the body lift is gone right, if there enough room i prolly leave the 40's then when i need new tires get some 38's...

well i called the guy about the truck, and apprently it got poly bushing for the body lift.. NO STEEL

and also the block for the steering is 6" and it stainless steel, and it attached with studs ! he said he wheels it and it hasnt moved or anything.. no rust on the truck expect for front fender were the tire smacked in to them bottom side there from felxing..

and few dents in her, has 3" exhaust with flowmaster's.... 454 rebuilt 6 yrs ago, he says 130km she sit about 2500ishrpm, 100km roughly 2000rpm he said.. and he says it aint got any problem with the 40" tires and the 4:10's...

frame is good and solid, and it got a d60 front and a corperate 14 bolt FF rear axle, and both have posi's...also he converted so it has disk front and back.. cab is a 85,

I would get rid of that 6" block in the steering. With or without studs, that's too high and you're taking a pretty big chance driving it like that. It should have a combination of a dropped pitman arm, and a raised steering arm, or better yet, crossover steering with the proper frame and steering box bracing.

Sounds like you should go get it though, what are you waiting for :confused:?

Oh, also, you should be just fine with that gearing at highway speeds. 100km/hr = 62mph, 130km/hr ~ 81mph
(1 km/hr = 0.6213 mph) Unless it has a single plane manifold, rectangular port heads, and a really lumpy cam, there is no way a 454 would have trouble pulling that.

I would get rid of that 6" block in the steering. With or without studs, that's too high and you're taking a pretty big chance driving it like that. It should have a combination of a dropped pitman arm, and a raised steering arm, or better yet, crossover steering with the proper frame and steering box bracing.

Sounds like you should go get it though, what are you waiting fo:confused:r?

LMAO... the wife doesnt think it worth it cuz it old ? ... what does the cross over steering look like ? i know what a dropped pitman arm is, not sure about a raised steering arm tho..

Yep, I can understand that. But I have a 2006 'Jeep' Liberty CRD, '97 F350 Powerstroke, '87 Samurai witha 1.6, and an '84 K5 Blazer diesel, and the new one is the only one that has problems!

Crossover Steering:
http://www.offroaddesign.com/catalog/Dana60crossover.htm

Be warned! The frame needs to be tied together in front of the steering box for crossover steering, or the frame will likely crack. This is never advertised and usually denied, but it's true.

A high steering arm is just like a dropped pitman arm, but it's the arm that bolts to the steering knuckle on the axle. Dana 60's usually have a 3" block rather than a raised arm, but 6" is just too high, it puts too much leverage on the arm studs.

Yep, I can understand that. But I have a 2006 'Jeep' Liberty CRD, '97 F350 Powerstroke, '87 Samurai witha 1.6, and an '84 K5 Blazer diesel, and the new one is the only one that has problems!

Crossover Steering:
http://www.offroaddesign.com/catalog/Dana60crossover.htm

Be warned! The frame needs to be tied together in front of the steering box for crossover steering, or the frame will likely crack. This is never advertised and usually denied, but it's true.

A high steering arm is just like a dropped pitman arm, but it's the arm that bolts to the steering knuckle on the axle. Dana 60's usually have a 3" block rather than a raised arm, but 6" is just too high, it puts too much leverage on the arm studs.


ya i hear you lol plus my camaro is OOOLLLDD!! it worked alright ahaha...

so then for the steering i would just a high steer arm for passenger side, some pipe to go from one side to the other, and a small drop pitman arm then eh..

he says it got a regular steering set up doesn thave the push pull system on it ..

Yep, you would only need the steering arm for the passenger side (and the hardware for it) and the dropped pitman arm. The draglink you could make yourself. The problem happens when the frame flexes at the steering box though. The factory steering puts the forces in the same plane as the frame, but the crossover steering puts the forces perpendicular to the frame, and adds the extra leverage of the dropped pitmans arm, which often results in a cracked frame. That's why it needs bracing.

Yep, I can understand that. But I have a 2006 'Jeep' Liberty CRD, '97 F350 Powerstroke, '87 Samurai witha 1.6, and an '84 K5 Blazer diesel, and the new one is the only one that has problems!

Crossover Steering:
http://www.offroaddesign.com/catalog/Dana60crossover.htm

Be warned! The frame needs to be tied together in front of the steering box for crossover steering, or the frame will likely crack. This is never advertised and usually denied, but it's true.

A high steering arm is just like a dropped pitman arm, but it's the arm that bolts to the steering knuckle on the axle. Dana 60's usually have a 3" block rather than a raised arm, but 6" is just too high, it puts too much leverage on the arm studs.

so your talking about something like this with a 3" block under neather then eh ? that if i didnt go with a cross over set up that is...

http://www.offroadunlimited.com/orustore/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=502&idproduct=8236

Well that one is raised, it's not made for a block, but that would be the one for the passenger side. It would be best to see how it is first, and see what kind of arm you'd need to clear the suspension etc. But the dropped pitman arm for the steering box is needed too, because it's turned 90 degrees to work with crossover steering.

Well that one is raised, it's not made for a block, but that would be the one for the passenger side. It would be best to see how it is first, and see what kind of arm you'd need to clear the suspension etc. But the dropped pitman arm for the steering box is needed too, because it's turned 90 degrees to work with crossover steering.

oh ok, hmmm im more or less used to regualr steering setups lol.. i converted my stock steering on my jeep to a high steer system.. butt his is a little different since it push and pull and not lef to right..

like can you just get high steer arm for the passenger side, then bolt it to the top of the knuckle, and then from that arm a bar (drag link) to the steering box were there is a small dropped pitman arm on the steering box ? like is that what your meaning ?

that or just run 2 high steer arms and have the centre link up and above with the drag link up top...correct ?

like the steering box's dont operate any different from any others do they ? like they both spin one way or the other depending how the drag and centre links are setup ?

Well this is the picture I was trying to show you:
http://www.offroaddesign.com/catalog/D60crossoveraxle.JPG
(I don't have any affiliation with these guys, and I don't care where you buy your parts...)
But, in this pic, the red bar is the tierod, the one above it that's not painted, with the bend in it, is the draglink. If you notice the pitman arm on the steering box, it's facing rearward, not to the side. The steering box is the same, but you would need the correct pitman arm so it's the right height, and so it can be installed facing rearward as shown in this picture.

High steer has nothing to do with the steering ability or angles, it just moves the tierod above the leaf springs so it's in a safer spot and doesn't get bent on rocks. You don't need any arm on the driver side for crossover steering, you only would need that for high steer. (you still need it to retain the kingpin/spring, or have to replace the arm with the cap from the passenger side)

If you're not familiar with it, it may be best to just buy a kit, or you can do some searching around on the web or here on pirate. I really, really recommend bracing the frame for crossover steering though.

This is for 1/2 ton axles, so the steering arms are different, but otherwise it has some good info:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Steering/Steering_Research/steeringresearch.htm

ya prolly be best just to get a high steer arm made up from a buddy were he works, and a pipe bent and cut for the drag link on her, and then get a drop pitman arm to fit the appication it needs on her, and call her a day :)

prolly cheaper and easier to do that i would think,

I make whatever I can myself, and buy as little as possible. Just be careful with fabbed arms, I don't know your buddy's ability or what equipemtn he has, but factory steering and pitman arms are forged. The custom ones are usually machined billet.
Just remember to brace the crap out of the frame!

I make whatever I can myself, and buy as little as possible. Just be careful with fabbed arms, I don't know your buddy's ability or what equipemtn he has, but factory steering and pitman arms are forged. The custom ones are usually machined billet.
Just remember to brace the crap out of the frame!

i will ask him what kinda steel he can get at work, i know he made one for a friend on mine that did a cross over steering know that i think of it, and so far it seems to work really good as of right still holding up good and strong

i will ask him what kinda steel he can get at work, i know he made one for a friend on mine that did a cross over steering know that i think of it, and so far it seems to work really good as of right still holding up good and strong

cool, sounds like you're good to go

in deed, suppose to go look at it next weekend so we will see how that goes.. and i will update if i bring her home with me :)

thanks guys !

well buddy still has the truck now .. and he wants 3500 for it .. didnt have the 5000 at the time as the buyer for the camaro didnt pick the car up ..

so im trying to sell the camaro so i can buy this truck now lol ..

Wow, so you never got it, and the guy still has it for sale?
The pics are gone now, was this the big black Chevy?

Wow, so you never got it, and the guy still has it for sale?
The pics are gone now, was this the big black Chevy?

was the dark blue long box and yep pics are gone cuz i accidentaly delted them off my site lol :(

PM me info on your camaro

PM me info on your camaro

pm sent to ya man ..

she forwarded my email to her husband and hopefully he will send me some pics of the truck again, and if he does i will re-post them for you's

got your PM but your account isn't accepting PM's back...

sounds like a nice car, I have a 78 z28, just curious how much you are asking?

got your PM but your account isn't accepting PM's back...

sounds like a nice car, I have a 78 z28, just curious how much you are asking?

ahh ok try it now... i think i fixed it lol ...