-Stands-

Hello, my name is Francs and I have a problem.

-Sits-

The problem is I suppose that I have the wrong 4wd in my driveway. Local to me is a 404.115 VLF that has been sitting for a long time. Non one around here really knows what a unimog is and I don't have the time to tell them because they'd just argue that it's not a 1 ton ram so what good is it.

The kink is the guy who has it knows about it and it seems thinks that just because it is a unimog, it is worth prime money.

So based on the attached pics I'm interested to know what you actual unimog owners think of it and what I'd be looking at in terms of throwing money down the hole once I potentially brought it home.

I floated some initial cost questions past a US based vendor and never got anything back which sucks because the question of how much do I need to lay aside to R&R is a nice thing to know and helps to build good business relationships. Being in manufacturing I can tell you it's never a waste of time to educate and inform a potential customer because odds are they'll call YOU BACK when it's time to spend money.

Anyway, attached are some shots of it.

Based on the VIN and some rummaging around I know it's a 1965 404.115 VLF with the Margius Duetz cargo/tank body. The PTO, Winch and Pump have been removed but the tank is still in it, the cab has a manway as does the fire body but no pass through. It has the air assist brakes and the remains of a trailer coupling.

I'd like to save it but I'd not like to lose myself in the process. I know the engine needs a tear down in addition to fuel and brakes and my question abut costing is mostly related to if I assumed a total lose and opted to replace versus rebuild, what are the numbers I should expect to hear. My CJ while an okay beater is not the working vehicle my old dodge is but neither of them represent the type of project potential I want. If I'm going to build something I want it to be special, something that can DO what I want it to without sacrificing something else to get there.

It says 6900 in the window and he's mentioned 6500 but I know it needs real work and real parts money. As it sits and assuming the worst, whats a good cash on the barrel head number?

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/9851/dsc02026afv5.jpg

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/2207/dsc02027ash4.jpg

Yikes, thats a project!

So, as it sits and the things that you mentioned that are missing I wouldn't pay over $2500 for it and thats still kinda high not knowing if it even runs.

I assume you are in the US?

Check out.....

A dealer in the US that sells both vehicles and parts... and he is also on this board.
http://www.expedition-imports.com/

A website for Unimog classified ads.
http://www.unimog.net/exchange/.

Yeah I need to fill the additional information out. I'm over in NY. Funny thing is I got hooked up with Unimog NA for a bit during their failed "Let's Bring Unimog Back to America" experiment and I have a whole little black book of unimog parts % equipment dealers in europe but then the economy did this little dace and my 'merkun money is worthless right now. Drat!

Yeah the truck sits and hasn't started and ran in just about FOREVER. Some history on it, it was apparently purchased to be used as an on-site pump truck for some reason or another but ended up not getting used and just sat and got slowly striped of the working bits. For my needs the pump is not a big lose bit the PTO winch would sure be nice. I suppose I could always call superwinch and order up a hydraulic setup and mid mount it but that's dreams for another day.

It's in rough shape but as far as I've seen nothing that couldn't be repaired, replaced or fabricated. Being a professional draftsman goes a long way towards knowing what can be easily made and what can't.

So as for a curb value you'd peg it right now as 2500 or it's weight in scrap?

I wandered out this morning to see if it was still where it should be and there have been some developments. Seems the owner is looking to make it presentable with some paint and such. But I figured I'd snap some more pics showing some of the warts.

http://yfrog.com/2mimg00069200910100929ijx

I was chatting with him this morning and he swears it runs but I doubt it would just start up. Between the contents of the fuel tank and the so gummed it's frozen carb I can make a good case for it not moving anytime soon.

With these pics, would we still be in the 2500 range?

Funny thing is he likes to point out that the tires don't leak down and "...in 15 years I've never added air to the tires...". And even though he's never been up top, supposedly the rood mounted spare is in "great shape".

Funny thing is he likes to point out that the tires don't leak down and "...in 15 years I've never added air to the tires...". And even though he's never been up top, supposedly the rood mounted spare is in "great shape".

So ask him how much he'll sell the truck for without the incredible never-leak tires he's so attached to. If the tires are worth so much to him you might get a good deal on the rest of the truck.

My assumption is that you're pussy-footing around this guy when you "chat" with him, afraid to hurt his feelings. You need to get down to brass tacks with this guy and tell him you don't care how well the tires hold air and that the fact they do doesn't really affect the price of the truck. You need to get this thing started and see if/how the engine runs, how the tranny shifts, how the truck moves along and if the brakes work. Without knowing these things the truck isn't worth near what he's asking for it, even if the tires are brand new.

Getting it home without the magic tires might prove to be a problem.

As for the price, I've been politly avoiding the topic becasue I know the number he had on it was way too high, the crux is I don't know what would be considered too low. While I like a good haggle, I don't like to be insultingly low. If it were some old jeep I could whip up a good round'a'bout price in the time it takes to inventory it's equipment and such.

If one you were looking at it, what number would you throw out?

Getting it home without the magic tires might prove to be a problem.

As for the price, I've been politly avoiding the topic becasue I know the number he had on it was way too high, the crux is I don't know what would be considered too low. While I like a good haggle, I don't like to be insultingly low. If it were some old jeep I could whip up a good round'a'bout price in the time it takes to inventory it's equipment and such.

If one you were looking at it, what number would you throw out?

You're being polite with the fear of throwing out an insultingly low offer, yet it's OK for this guy to have an insultingly high asking price for a truck that he can't even prove runs.

I paid $2900 for my 404. It's a little high for a truck that didn't run at the time (electrical fire scorched some dashboard wires and gauges). You need to convince this guy that unless he can start the truck and let you drive it, it's just not worth what he's asking for it. If this is a case where you really want the truck bad and the seller isn't co-operating, tell him you will bring two fully-charged batteries and try to start it yourself - and that is the only way you'll consider buying it.

Some guys buy these trucks because they are rare and perhaps they got a good deal on it. Then they park it in their driveway and hope that if it sits there long enough with a "for sale" sign someone will eventually be intrigued enough at it's rarity and come along and pay whatever the inflated price is just because it's different.

O.K. I bought my 404.114 Belgian soft top for about 2500
it needed:
paint (no really it actually had none, it had been stripped)
wood for the bed
new canvas top (doors were new)
clean the points
plugs
carb rebuild
complete brake overhaul (new wheel cylinders, master cylinder rebuild)
new batteries
shocks
generator
complete fluid change
fuel filter/oil filter

Now, if you wanted a running driving one from one of the importers I remember seeing them for around 14000$ so... what it is worth is very subjective.

I bought mine, fixed a few things and had it driving for around 4500$ ish... I drove it a little and had a catastrophic brake failure and have since invested in a brake upgrade. Some of my other repairs have been more in the direction of upgrades so my figures may be a little high but... so far I am into mine about 8500$ and I will probably be out another 1000$ before it goes back out on the trail with 49"s, power steering, disc brakes, 24V GM alternator, pertronics ignition, Radflow remote res shocks, and dual AGM batteries w/ 80Amp batterie equalizer. Plus I also have a Mega squirt w/mega spark and wide band O2 sensor assembled and "ready" to be installed. All as part of this same 9500$ including original purchase and towing fees.
P.S. I have still not replaced the top (it's my antitheft system):D

Now, all of these things did need to be changed but they really didn't need to be the bigger better harder faster items I chose. If I had it to do again I would definitely do the GM alternator swap and the pertronics. The rest of it could be done much more budget friendly.

Now, I feel that the hard top is more desirable so that might be worth something to you. The fire body is largely good for recycling value. If it does not have the PTO winch anymore I would estimate this truck as being worth about 3400$ IF THE MOTOR IS NOT SIEZED AND MAKES GOOD COMPRESSION at most.

I would talk to the guy and see if he will let you run a compression test on it. Then take two batteries and crank away. Don't worry if he doesn't have the keys odds are good the ignition cylinder is F*d anyway and any key will work. The Oil press gauge is mechanical so you should be able to tell if it has pressure. If you are really feeling bold, take some starting fluid too, the worst it can do is nothing. If it cranks over (and you want a hard top) it is worth 3500$ AT MOST from a private sale without knowing more about it.

What you need to do is convince this guy that it is worth what the axles would sell for (about 2400$ for the set) and that you are doing him a favor by removing the rest of it from his property. Don't be afraid to throw around phrases like county auditor, junk, eyesore, unsightly, rusty, heap and derelict.:D

A complete set of MB shocks will cost you about 800$ and the steering Damper is about 400$.:eek: I never priced the generator because I thought it was junk anyway but I paid about 150$ for my GM Marine diesel 24V large case. New points and the users manual (worth its weight in gold) misc filters and seals about 200$ ish. I new Gov Surplus set of Michelin XL tires (like with the rubber tits and all) will likely set you back about 500-600 dollars in an 11.00R20 (37" ish, the OE size) So, I would S*can the magic tires or let him keep them if he wants.

I didn't have the faintest idea where to get parts when I got started so I called my local MB car dealership, they referred me to Classic Mercedes (the people you get the high KM badges from). And Classic MB finally referred me to Eurotech Services in Oregon as the authorized MB Truck support for the West Coast.

The bottom of my fuel tanks look a lot like those ones but I have never had any problems with filter clogging though I did have a banjo fitting rust through from the outside. Make sure you change the fuel filter and I wouldn't worry too much about them, worst case scenario replace them with something different.

Be aware when changing the fluids that the transmission DOES NOT take GL5. I don't think the portals or the diffs would be affected by using GL5 but just to be sure I filled them With Royal Purple gear oil to be safe but GL4 is just fine.

As for your buddies with the Dodges, tell them this is a Daimler product as well.:grinpimp:

Okay so some good information here. If I'm reading it correct, any given unimog 404 is worth only as much as someone is willing to pay for the axles in the event that the truck is like the one I'm looking at; a downer.

I've tried rolling the motor over by hand which given the low compression and light displacement should be easy and it didn't want to move. The carb is gummed solid and in this case I would feel nervous about cranking away on it. But this is perhaps better for my needs as I can show up with my -ahem- dodge full of tools and then scrub the whole attempt based on not wanting to scrub the bearings to dust.

A bit of background on the truck, it was brought into the US by an importer on Long Island and purchased to act as a water buffalo on an asbestos abatement job. But it ended up not being used and parked. It seems it was used on some other jobs as a pump truck but never saw much real use. Somewhere along the line the winch was sold off with the PTO and the pony pump was likewise sold off. So all of the technical equipment is missing leaving only the 600L tank behind.

It rolls around out of gear and doesn't appear to be leaking transmission or axle lubricants. The hood is sticky because the cable is caught up so I can't check the engine oil too easily. Likewise I can't see the brake reservoir to gauge what the fluid looks like. And since the truck would need to be towed to move I can't clearly define if the brakes are at least functioning if faulty.

So if I show up with my truck eager to proof test the truck only to have to back down under the aegis of I don't want to break a truck I don't own and just start the write down process:

no factory tool kit so can't jack the frame and inspect brakes
hood cable caught up, can't inspect engine oil or belt and hose
fuel tanks dry and rusty, adding fuel may horribly foul system
carb gummed solid, adding fuel pointless
while I could connect some batteries, might also destroy engine due to lube issue
missing drivers door glass and missing cabin door glass
tires while holding air, show badly worn tread and dry rotting
rust pitting and holes
missing PTO, winch and pump
unknown condition of air assist brakes

10 line items, valued at 450 bucks each would bring me down to a base of 2000 which it appears to be a fair market value for a downer I can't prove works. Armed with the FSM and parts films I can make some assumptions about what I'd need to purchase right out of the gate, mostly brake hydraulics and an ignition overhaul plus the usual fluids exchange.

The humor is I could probably liquidate my CJ runabout into parts and cover a good chunk of that.

And as for the guys with the rams, these are the same yokels who think Sterling is made by Ford and Detroit is GM product. I'd have an easier time teaching my cat to speak french than getting them to understand that Ma'Benz owns a lot of the game.

Hey if all the local 4X4 guys are such tools then this guy is probably very frustrated by the lack of serious offers on his "exotic" "hard to source parts for" "expensive" "project" vehicle, then he is probably more willing to sell/settle/be rid of it than you might think.

Really I think you should stick to the things you can prove are gonna be a problem. When I bought mine, there was no mistaking the bad brakes, the pedal would go right to the floor. That will be a big clue. Those tires would not pass a Commercial DOT inspection so no matter how well they hold air they NEED to be replaced. The hood release cable is not available from MB but you can get a universal from Napa/Checker/Oreily/Cut rate for about 10$ so I would just reach up under from the drivers wheel well and dike that thing.
I also think you should bring a jack and some wood blocks. Even if he wont let you use them, it shows you are ready and that you are not a complete retard. And if he wont let you jack it up then you have more grounds to bargain from since you will have to assume those uninspectable parts are bad. The other thing that jacking it up will allow you to do is check the locker functionality.
Play up the missing glass angle, I know it is flat glass and any shop can cut you a new one; But, odds are, he doesn't or he wont expect you to.
Not having the PTO and sundries essentially makes it like any other 404 so play that end up, so what if it has the upgraded brakes, that is just more parts you are gonna have to replace... that is as far as he needs to know.