TBI question

[abigassbowtie]

IM getting a 92 chevy 3/4ton with a 454 and 5 speed! Im just curious if I was to put the throttle body injection off of it on my 396 if it would support the 380-400 horse power that the 396 makes? and is it worth the swap to put this in a older non fuel injected truck?
and yes I searched just didnt find any definite yes or no

[brokenparts]

the 454 throttle body should be able to handle it... you will more than likely need to increase the fuel pressure however.

[KWTMECH]

It's worth the swap, I converted my 1968 to TBI

[Urban Wheeler]

It's always worth ditchin a carb.

[abigassbowtie]

hey kwtmech got any suggestions or pointers on doing this swap any pictures? and thats all i have been able to get so far is it should or I dont think so I want someone to chime in and say they have done it and their motor is similar hp. thats what Im hoping for anyway

[larboc@hotmail.com]

1) Go here and read the faqs. http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=75
2) Install TBI
3) Build a cable for your laptop to data log, and buy the moates chip burner and some eeproms. modify the chips like you find on the BP so you don't have to spend a dime on adapters.

4) Learn how much nicer fuel injection is to drive than a carb.

[brokenparts]

there's no quick explanation... There is a ton of info on the web and in books available. JTR (jags that run) has a pretty good book help you start to get your brain wrapped around the process. http://www.jagsthatrun.com/OrderingBooks.html .

Third gen (kinda like a pirate forum) is also an excellent resource for info:

http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/

[MTblazer87]

I did some research on www.tbichips.com, and ended up using one of his chips for my build. I also looked at these guys for a better flowing tbi http://marine-performance-parts.com/cfmtechportedthrottlebodyforgmtbi74l.aspx

In retrospect I would probably try to burn my own chip if I was to do it again so I could get the tune perfected for my motor.

[larboc@hotmail.com]

I did some research on www.tbichips.com, and ended up using one of his chips for my build. I also looked at these guys for a better flowing tbi http://marine-performance-parts.com/cfmtechportedthrottlebodyforgmtbi74l.aspx

In retrospect I would probably try to burn my own chip if I was to do it again so I could get the tune perfected for my motor.

yes, there are tons of people that try to order a chip for their non-stock motor and never have it work right. Too many variables with a speed density setup to burn a chip without datalogging.

[abigassbowtie]

thats great information guys I think i have my spare time all taken up reading up on this stuff now thanks alot I appreciate it

[mikenholly07]

YES.
I have a carb to tbi swapped 468 in my buggy, not much to it really. You said you were just under 400hp, you will need for sure a bigger tbi unit and more fuel(pressure). Extreme efi, in texas and on ebay, does it pretty cheap. I would get the 850 cfm, that should support upwards of 500hp if you ever want a little more. From my own experience I would stay on the smaller side of the cams out there for BBCs. Don't bother buying the edelbrock intake, it's really only good for the stock head tbi motors, they have peanut ports. One more thing, 454s did not come factory with knock sensors until multi port. So if you run anything but a stock spec tbi 454, I would reccomend an isntall of a knock sensor. Actually pretty easy, just have to run one wire from ecm to esc(electronic spark control) module, the rest of the wires go from esc to negative ,switched hot, and knock sensor(I used newer delphi style), pretty easy.

Fuel pressure, well if you can use an external pump, I would. Last longer and generally have higher than stock pressure. Also either homebrew adj regulator or aftermarket, you'll need 18-20lbs maybe. This is all assuming your making that much HP. In stock trim a TBI set-up will work on your motor without mods but, it will piss you of more than it will make you happy. Is your 396 square or oval port? Do you know cam specs?

One more thing, 454s did not come factory with knock sensors until multi port. So if you run anything but a stock spec tbi 454, I would reccomend an isntall of a knock sensor. Actually pretty easy, just have to run one wire from ecm to esc(electronic spark control) module, the rest of the wires go from esc to negative ,switched hot, and knock sensor(I used newer delphi style knock sensor), pretty easy.

[KWTMECH]

hey kwtmech got any suggestions or pointers on doing this swap any pictures? and thats all i have been able to get so far is it should or I dont think so I want someone to chime in and say they have done it and their motor is similar hp. thats what Im hoping for anyway

What year truck is the 396 going in

[Urban Wheeler]

YES.
I have a carb to tbi swapped 468 in my buggy, not much to it really. You said you were just under 400hp, you will need for sure a bigger tbi unit and more fuel(pressure).

the 454 unit is the biggest factory one made. I wouldn't bump the fuel pressure up much, I'd probably spring for larger injectors. IIRC there is a spacer that raises the injector body some for better airflow.

An alternative to chip burning is the EBL flash version.
http://www.dynamicefi.com/EBL_Flash.php

[mikenholly07]

the 454 unit is the biggest factory one made. I wouldn't bump the fuel pressure up much, I'd probably spring for larger injectors. IIRC there is a spacer that raises the injector body some for better airflow.

An alternative to chip burning is the EBL flash version.
http://www.dynamicefi.com/EBL_Flash.php

There are no larger injectors(90pph inj in factory 454), the only way to get more fuel is to increase fuel pressure. Stock TB is only 600 cfm, you don't get 400 hp big blocks fed through 600cfm TBs or carbs. I totally agree with the EBL upgrade though.

[Binder]

the only way to get more fuel is to increase fuel pressure.

No you can also increase pulse width. If you can increase pulse width enough to get where you want without the injectors going static you're better off than upping pressure too much. If you try to raise the FP too much and tune down the idle pulse with to compensate then you may run into idle quality issues.....

[abigassbowtie]

the truck is a 79 I dont know cam specs! my dad built the motor and he past away about 3 years ago. I will find out when i do this swap I think i will have to to get this to run properly wont I ? I do remember that it was a crane grind and they quit doing this grind cause they were having issues with exhaust lobes going flat this was in the 80's and the oval port cylinders and intake manifold have been ported he built this motor to pull the cabover camper and our boat and he said he never had to downshift even going through the oregon mountains wich some are 6% for 7 or 8 miles

[MTblazer87]

I would suggest that if that cam has been discontinued for wear problems get a new one now so you have the cam specs and hopefully a cam that won't wear flat. Be a good time to do it while the motor is out and your swapping the intake.

[abigassbowtie]

well the motor has been in there and running great for 25 plus years so i think the cam is not gonna go flat the #1 killer for camshafts is letting them sit for years and then not dumping oil to the motor through the valve cover before running it preferrably doing an oil change but my dad also told me he went through a whole shit ton of valve springs to find some good and soft ones for the exhaust side cause thats the side that was going flat this is what he did for a living was build engines so im pretty trust worthy of his work and love the way this truck pulls so f-ing hard in any terrain so changing the cam is not an option unless i nut up and go hyd/roller wich is gonna happen just not any time this year

[abigassbowtie]

well the deal fell through so I didnt get the truck with the t.b.i. unit so any other suggestions on a fuel injection unit whats the best bang for the buck for a easy install as well as easy tuningand capable of say 500 hp

[mikenholly07]

TBI is the best bang for the buck set-up and very easy to install. I wouldn't worry too much about it, all you need is a BBC w/3spd auto wire harness with sensors and ecm plus, tbi unit, fuel pump and tbi distributor. Only four sensors to manage and one IAC. If you are wanting iit to support 500hp, you will like I said before, need more fuel and air. Which means larger tbi unit and more fuel pressure or custom chip.......I have run my injectors at over 24 psi for over 2 years with 0 issues. There are plenty of folks(like myself) runnnig Healthy big blocks @ 500hp with stock style tbi and have done it for less than 500-600 bucks in most cases, it can and has been done. If you want to spend lots of money and plug and play, go buy a kit with instructions and enjoy efi.

[abigassbowtie]

well I got a throttle body set up minus half :shaking: of the wiring harnes and ecm but I have a complete wiring harness off of a small block here and the ecm off the small block i pulled myself off of a truck i recently parted out so all the sensors should work off of the small block and what about the ecm and harness if i replace the chip in the ecm it should work right ?

[abigassbowtie]

well i been doing some research and it looks like the ecm that is most desirable due to the aftermarket availability is the 1227747 and mine is 312320232 so it looks like i need a new one but they arent to expensive just kind of nervous about buying that kind of shit after i hear about that jeff roberts guy in the other threads and can someone verify for me about the wiring harness's being the same for the big and small block and i need to know if the pinouts are gonna be the same for the two different ecms so i can use the wiring harness i have with the 1227747 ecm i am gonna get

[mikenholly07]

I think the ecm you have is a newer one for electronic controlled trans and they are wired differently in the harness. There are a couple places on web you can view harness corrections for diff ecm configs. I don't think they are too bad to do, or you could print off a pinout and do it yourself. Sensors vary year to year, you may have to splice. Hope that helps.

Try some periods and comma's.

[mikenholly07]

Go to thirdgen.org, there is way more tech on tbi stuff there.

[ballardmotorsports]

affordable fuel injection.

[chevy_man]

Just my .02 after driving a tbi since I got my license and recently buying a MPFI car.

TBI is awesome to work on, super simple if you have the service manual pages for the wiring. It's only failed me once when my alternator went bad and reversed polarity frying my ecm.

For up to 400 hp it's not a bad system. After that it takes some work and expensive throttle bodies. The more and more I look at building my 350 to around 400hp the more sense it makes to just swap in an LQ4. BUT for my particular build I'm looking at taking a stock motor and building it from the bottom up with better performing parts.

Also, if you want simple and are going to buy a holley or similar tbi setup, I'd just go to MPFI. Not much more money and even better driveability and easier to make big power.

[abigassbowtie]

hmm lots to think about
another question is I just got rid of my vss 205 output stuff so since i have no interst in having a speedometer can i just use my turbo 400 vss stuff and let that be the signal to the ecm or is their a way around having to deal with the vss output?

[brokenparts]

Honestly, you'll have more problems trying to tune around/half-ass it than it will just wiring up the VSS properly. There really isnt too much to it. The JTR VSS that adapts directly to the 205 speed meter makes it stupid simple... it just a matter of pulling the correct pins on the ECM (I dont have my book in front of me to tell you which one it is).

[abigassbowtie]

now say i want to program my own prom i have to have a aldl cable to go to my laptop if i copied this guys set up would it work for my application you think?

http://cable.invisibill.net/