As some of you are aware, there's been talk of assembling an axle chart with as much info as possible from the collective PBB brain on any given axle. Such a task needs to be taken on piece by piece, so I think we should start with the most popular front axle, swap and stock application wise. Okay, that being said, I've come up with a little Excell spread sheet listing all the Dana 44 info I can think of, in a format I feel is understandable, check it out and let me know what you think.

http://thunderbayoffroaders.rockcrawler.com/axles.htm

Savage is also working on a similar chart, so check his out too.

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/king.savage/

Lets decide on a format that will work for this and all other axles, with the eventual result being the whole 4x4 world looking to the PBB for info on any axle out there, and getting reliable info from experts in each particular axles specific features and nuances.
I would also like to include all bearing, seal, and steering component part numbers (common brand) and the BOM number for all the housings and knuckles at a later date, but let's start with what we have here. Please post any suggestions and information sources in this thread.

some info for your chart:


1978 J-20 D44
Pass. side drop

8 lug
Flat top knuckles
297x
9.94" outers

short inner - 16.75
long inner - 35.5


fyi .... you can't lump all the j-series trucks together, the J-10's
are 1/2 ton and the J-20's 3/4 ton ... can't speak for any of
the other J-models ...

- jack

Need a note that GM's transition from the D44 to 10-bolt front axle was gradual; I have a stock front axle in my yard from a '78 GMC Jimmy that IS a 44 and has two flattop knuckles. Some stock front 44's have been seen as late as 1980 model year.

Originally posted by Lloyd
Need a note that GM's transition from the D44 to 10-bolt front axle was gradual; I have a stock front axle in my yard from a '78 GMC Jimmy that IS a 44 and has two flattop knuckles. Some stock front 44's have been seen as late as 1980 model year.

I just parted out an 80 blazer with a 12 bolt rear and dana 44 front. All parts were stock. Flat tops on both sides.

I will take some measurements tonight when I get home.

Morpheus:

Thanks for the info, I added it to the chart. I will keep the J-truck housings lumped together until I can confirm any difference between them, same as the GM K5, K10, K20, the differences seem to only be in the hubs and knukles used, MAYBE the tube thickness. Once the charts gets filled out more and I start including BOM numbers, they years and models will get separated more. Keep those measurements coming, and if you've got more than one axle, check them all, the more confirmation the better.

Lloyd:

GM trucks are so popular and so many of them have been swapped around and switched back and forth that it's hard to tell what's stock and what's not, for the most part from what I've seen, Dana 44 up to mid '77, GM 10 after mid '77, but I added your note in the comments. Actually, I think 1980 was a big 'ol garage sale for the GM truck line, lots of quirky things on the ugliest truck GM ever built

Glo:

Thanks for offering up the measurements.

Originally posted by 4Bangler
GM trucks are so popular and so many of them have been swapped around and switched back and forth that it's hard to tell what's stock and what's not, for the most part from what I've seen, Dana 44 up to mid '77, GM 10 after mid '77, but I added your note in the comments.

Thanks man. You're absolutely right, but in this particular case the guy I knew bought that truck new from the dealership, and that's what came under it. :p I've also seen 38's on a pair of 10-bolts under a '70, but never ever thought the factory might've put that combination together. ;)

i have a 76 1/2ton with stock dana 44. the measurement from upperball joint to upperball joint was about 57 and 3/4 and lower balljoint to lower ball joint was about 54.5"

Ummm.....how drunk? Did you measure you truck while it (or you) was upside down? The upper ball joint measurement should be less than the lower, by 4" on the axles I've measured, you may have the measurements reversed, in which case you're at 3.25" could your axle be bent? Or does one of us have sloppy measuring skills? I'll take your numbers under advisement, I'm hoping to get duplicate measurements from several sources before I publish the chart.

Go to www.WARN.com and they have a PDF file in there with a ton of shaft demensions.

Yup, I've already included that stuff, except for the mistakes, but the main reason I'm doing this is to list all the stuff that Warn DOESN'T list, like the Jeep J-trucks, IH pickups, Ford F-250's, and anything made by Dodge.

I'm looking at some of the BOM# info from Patooyee's site, and some from Mr. N, but I'm already finding some discrepancies so I'm not sure about including BOM#'s.

I would like to include Federal Mogul (or another common brand if anyone can suggest a better one) part numbers for all the seals, and bearings for the different applications, and Moog (might as well list the good stuff) part numbers for all the steering components.

I know some of you have done the reasearch, look at the chart (http://thunderbayoffroaders.rockcrawler.com/axles.htm) and see what you can add. I'll try to update it on a daily basis.

My front Dodge housing has 3" tubes. They appear to be ~0.375" thick. Passenger drop w/ SOA. Don't know if it was 1/2 ton or what & it was cut down when I got it.

75ish D44 from F-150 (Drum Brake) .5" tube thickness (Can't tell if they are 3" or 2.75" diameter):

Coil sprung,
UBJ = 52.75"
LBJ = 55.5"
Long tube from housing to 'C' = 24.125"
Short tube from housing to 'C' = 9.25"
Long shaft looked to be 34"
Short shaft looked to be 19", but Warn's measurments of 33.91 and 18.91 are probably closer.

**Disclaimer: All measurments were taken a few minutes ago after a few beers, and all by myself. So measurments may not be exact, like center of ball joint to center of ball joint, it's not like I could be at both ends at once to tell where center was (but it's close).**

Once other fact: I will be using knuckles from a 83ish Dodge diconnect D44. They are both flat top, and have 5x5.5 pattern. When installed on this axle gives a WMS to WMS measurment of 66". It may be one of the best Disc Brake swaps available for EBs and Old Fords running drum brake D44s.

I have this axle on the bench, so if you need any more measurments, let me know.

Willis

The front Dana 44 in the 1/2 ton IH pick-up is SOA.

If you've got the axle on the bench, some sober measurements with a buddy would be very helpful, almost all the Ford Coil sprung Dana 44's I have access to seem to be smiling. Double check your UBJ and LBJ measurements, your measurements show a difference of 2.75", indicating 1.375" positve camber at the balljoint. All of the other Dana 44's I've measured (leaf sprung Jeep and Ford models) indicate 4" difference between the UBJ and LBJ, for 2" positive camber per side at the ball joints. If in fact the coil front axles use less camber at the ball joints, this may be an inportant fact for people cutting down axles.

Also, is the axle disassembled?

Measurements of the hub offset and spindle pattern (bolt cirlce), would be very helpful, as well as knuckle offset (LBJ to SMS and UBJ to SMS)

Hub offset is best measured with the hub and spindle off the vehicle. Seat the hub on the spindle, maybe even tighten down the adjusting nuts, and place a straight edge on the spindle mountnig surface, not the indexing bore. A second straight edge (a carpenter's square works perfect) on the wheel mounting surface, with the distance bewteen being the hub offset.

Knuckle offset is best measured with the knuckle off and the balljoints out, a carpenters square across the SMS measureing to the center of the balljoint bore works well.

I could also use some measurements from the center of the coil bucket to the center of the coil bucket.

Thanks for you help, I'll be measuring my parts pile this weekend, as it is 250 miles away from me at the moment.

I know its not as useful but will you be added rear axle information as well.

arndog

Yup, once I get more front axle info, the rear axle stuff will be on another page of the same document ie: Dana 44 fronts, page 1-3, Dana 44 rears, page 4-5. Dana 60 fronts, page 1-2, Dana 60 rears, page 3-6, etc. Each popular axle will have it's own chart, with some of the odd ball stuff lumped together in a seperate chart. I'm starting off consentrating on common 4wd stuff, but once the format gets nailed down, I'd like to pass it on and allow people to add to it, creating an ever evolving document of reference. Of course I'll have to come up with some sort of information verification plan, right now I'm just looking to get the same measurements from at least three sources, and at least two verifications of the measurements I take on my own junk pile.

I'm not padding, just trying to keep this in full view of potential information sources. Anyone? Anyone? Anyone?

Scout II 74-79 0* castor
Scout II 80 3 * castor
Spring CL 32.25
UBJ-UBJ 50.25
*some* came with 260x joints most with 297x

All for a Scout II 75-79... 74 also had D44 fronts but some came with Drum brakes so I don't know if there measurements are the same. And 1980 had a different amount of caster built into the axles so I didn't inluded that year (all units in inches):

Drop:
Pass LP
Spring CL:
31.125
Axle tube:
2.75 x .50
UBJ to UBJ:
47.50
LBJ to LBJ:
50.5
U-joint:
297X
Short Axle:
14.78
Long Axle:
32.91
Comments:
Zero Caster
Lug Pattern:
5 on 5.5
Lockout:
external
SMS to WMS:
54
Rotor Offset:
1.5
Outer axle:
8.72 27sp
Driver/Passenger Knuckles:
Both Round top
Spindle pattern:
8 on 4"
UBJ to SMS:
3.25
LBJ to SMS:
1.5


There you go!

Thanks for the info guys, now I just need to come up with a way to deal with contradicting information. I have access to a Scout II Dana 44 of unknown origin that I will double check these measurements on and we'll see what we end up with.

My numbers on the Scout II axle are correct. I taped them this morning using a bare housing, sitting right next to a Chevy D44 bare housing. The Spring CL on the Scout is 1/2 narrower than the Cheby.
:rolleyes:

I do like the idea of this whole list - it would be great to just go to one spot to get an answer on swapability. Thanks!!

Since you've got both housings bare, how about some confirmation numbers. If the Scout is 1/2" narrower than the Chevy, I get 31.25" not 31.125", I know, 1/8", but still, I'd like to get it all right. Could you post some measurements from the Chevy? Also, your UBJ/LBJ measurements seem a little off, I've been finding about 2" positive camber at the ball joints, meaning the LBJ to LBJ should be 4" more that the UBJ to UBJ, but if the Scout knuckles are offset different, maybe the end fordgings are different too, may be they run less camber at the ball joint as well as crappy caster, no wonder they steer like tractors :D

Still looking for info........anyone?

Great idea, and well executed

Ive got a 76 wag front 44, Ill give you some measurments form in the morning ( when sun is up)

its bare, but I can measure the BJ centerlines, and the shaft lengths, for reference, or back up info.

Thanks, the more info the better

I measured again and got the following number for my Scout II axle.

Spring CL: 31 1/8 inches (The chevy axle had 31 5/8 or so...)
UBJ to UBJ: 47 3/4
LBJ to LBJ: 50.25

Thanks, keep 'em coming!

Originally posted by 4Bangler
I'm looking at some of the BOM# info from Patooyee's site, and some from Mr. N, but I'm already finding some discrepancies so I'm not sure about including BOM#'s.
If I didn't typo the info (been known to happen) the BOM numbers I'm using are from the "Spicer Front & Rear Axle Kit" X510-8 DSD. It has LOTS of great info! Get your hands on one if you can find it for sale.

I'm 90% done with my Dana 44 Revers Spiral article, just need a couple more pics. I'll send you the link to the page, it should have some info for you, and dispell a lot of bunk info floating around this board.

Originally posted by 4Bangler
Yup, once I get more front axle info, the rear axle stuff will be on another page of the same document ie: Dana 44 fronts, page 1-3, Dana 44 rears, page 4-5.
Here is some info for you

Rear Dana 44 axle
BOM is to the right of the pumpkin, just to the right of the date code.

Year, BOM Axle shaft and length.

Dodge None for at least 68-78

Ford
1967 602909 24820x 29 3/4”
1968 602964 25983-2z 29 25/32”
1977 603830 706587-1x 706587-2x 31 7/64” 32 39/64”
1977.5-78 603869 706647-1x 706647-2x 31 7/64” 32 39/64”
78.5 603903 706587-1x 706587-2x 31 7/64” 32 39/64”
79 603973 71025-1x 71025-2x 31 35/64” 33 3/64”
All 1 5/16” at 30 splines in F100 and F150’s

Chevy
1967-68 602925 C10, I1000 ( ½ Ton pick up or station wagon) Not available
1968 603039 C15 ( ½ Ton pick up or station wagon) Not available
1968 602988 K15 ( ½ Ton pick up or station wagon) Not available


IHC

Lots of Dana 44 rear axles! (too many to list)

Jeep

Lots of Dana 44 rear axles! (too many to list)

I made this pic back around 97
http://home.off-road.com/~b.nelson/family/axledraft.gif

I have scans of the Precision Gear D44 ring and pinion install manual. The are kinda big, around 350k.
Page1 (http://www.trailhed.com/images/d44/d44p1.jpg)
Page2 (http://www.trailhed.com/images/d44/d44p2.jpg)
Page3 (http://www.trailhed.com/images/d44/d44p3.jpg)
Page4 (http://www.trailhed.com/images/d44/d44p4.jpg)

Thanks for all the info, anyone else wanna share? Aw come on, everybody needs to share.

Originally posted by Mr.N


I made this pic back around 97
http://home.off-road.com/~b.nelson/family/axledraft.gif


I didn't know Jeep made an AMC 20 front? :p

Originally posted by troutbum
Scout II 74-79 0* castor
Scout II 80 3 * castor
Spring CL 32.25
UBJ-UBJ 50.25
*some* came with 260x joints most with 297x

1980 Scout's D44 have 2.5 degree's caster. This is from the IH manual.

back from the archives... but the links are dead.. any one still have this spread sheet?

Did anyone save a copy of this?

bump.

whatever happen to the chart?

The slacker lost his job so now he's some sort of caveman living in northern Michigan without internet access.