which ones are better, and why?

12 can use radial or bias tires. Its a wheeling rig, do whats cheap.

Are you wanting to run these on the street? Not to say you cant but I read your other thread and if it was me wanting to run beadlocks with 39.5+ Id get some Trailready HD or Allieds.

best person to ask for info/advice on the hummer rims is 406yj. He recenters them, knows a lot about them. I'm pretty sure the 12's are better, but he sells both. I have 5 8 bolts that i'm going to have him recenter and powdercoat.

Are you wanting to run these on the street? Not to say you cant but I read your other thread and if it was me wanting to run beadlocks with 39.5+ Id get some Trailready HD or Allieds.

that's exactly right. i will be driving this on the street, like my other post said, but i can't afford trailready's or allieds....or any custom beads for that matter. the h1's are the most economical next to weld on rings, and i know they're not exactly street legal in most places.....but i'm figuring they'll be good for now until i can afford to get something a little better.

so the 12 bolts are the more ideal ones to go with?

i read that they were better because of the number of bolts... more bolts = less stress per bolt. and there's an issue, as stated earlier in this thread, with the 8 bolts only being able to run radials, no bias.( i think that's right). but again, PM or 406yj, he is the H1 guy on here.

8 bolts-Bias
12 bolts-Radial or bias

I have 8 bolts that i recentered and installed rock rings on i run 39.5-18-16.5 boggers on. We drive it on the street all the time and never had any problem ot of them i do check the tourqe on the nuts every so often. I will say those pressed centers that 406yj or mad mac sells is the way to go.

I will say those pressed centers that 406yj or mad mac sells is the way to go.

i agree, but it's too little back spacing for my needs. i'll need around 4.5" at least

we have run 8 bolts and 12 bolts.....we have run bias and radials on each. i do not see a strength difference. we drive on the street and beat the tar out of them on the trails. I do like the 12 bolts better because theya re a little easier to recenter, but the rubber run flats are a son of a B even with the nice military removal tool.

I run Radial and Bias on H1's pretty much teh same thing. As far as legality, if you are driving a rig with 40's on the street, you may have other problems, like tires sticking out, no fenders, no mudflaps, etc. So beadlocks will be the last thing PO's will have an isseu with :D I woudl say go 8 lugs, they worked well for me for both. I also have another set of 8 lug H1's recentered and tehy are a sweet setup. It is hard to justify the extra oney on other whjeels when you will have only an external beadlock. And H1's are on civilian hummers that drive up and down the street and freeway, so not sure why people kee saying they are illegal ;)

Save up and get the new 24 bolt ones.. They look bad ass too.. :)

not really remembering exactly what the unassembled wheels look like, could you just add extra studs to an 8 bolt to make it a 16 lets say?

seriously, could you?

I built a set of 12 bolts and welded in pressed centers (from MAC), the most back spacing I could get was ~3.2". That was with the center all the way down into the wheel until it stopped.

My buddy built a set of 8 bolts and he claims with pressed centers he could get over 4" of backspacing (same centers as I have).


There is a difference where the center stops, so if you are building your own, you could make it easier on yourself picking the right wheel.

I have 8 bolt H1's. As I recall they are stamped with a DOT number and max inflation pressure of 30 psi. I'm running 40" Irok bias ply and feel 20-22 psi is good on the street. I believe the military needed to increase load capacity and switch to radials and higher tire pressure. 12 bolts were needed to handle the additional tire pressure, not so much a wheel strength issue.

The other major difference is that with an 8-bolt wheel the inner flange mounts to the axle, meaning you can separate the wheel and replace the tire while the inner wheel flange is still mounted on the vehicle. Of course, if you unbolt the wrong eight bolts while the tire still has pressure in it something might come flying off. On 12 bolt wheels the outer flange is what mounts to the axle and I believe this was a safety design change so that nothing can fly off in case of explosive decompression ;)

I think I might have a little to add to this thread:D

8 bolt Vs 12 bolts.

Unless you plan on running 46's or bigger there is no need for the 12 bolts. To be honnest with you I've made up 8 bolts for guys running 49's and they haven't had a problem. I know at some point there is a dif. But I'm yet to see it. Maybe if they were on a school bus or something of that size and weight we could find out which is stronger. If someone would come out with a 1 bolt beadlock I'd be all over them:flipoff2: I've had the bling of trail readys before. Pretty wheels I'm not taking anything away from them. However they are SINGLE beadlocks. Something about dicking with 32 bolts per wheel and torqing them to 18 #'s ea.........well there isn't much fun in that. H1's however are put together by your impact gun. Strong, Good enough design that we send our men all day every day to fight on them, double beadlocks, lots of after market support, a steel wheel that can have rock ring welded inside the lip that keeps it from bending and it won't crack like an alum. wheel.

I get a call once a week from someone that droped some serious coin on fancy high dollar beadlocks that are single beadlocks and they tell me that when they went to a bigger tire they are rolling their inside bead. NO THANKS! The last thing I want to do is haul to the trail to have that happen.

With the way these wheels are designed you could cut a 6" hole in your tire and not roll out on the back half of your rim. Both beads are locked in place. So even with the worse of tire damage you still have that tire under your rig, flat do doubt but you will not be driving off the trail on the back half of your wheel. I hear people all the time asking if I have the newer style of wheels that have more bolts. NO, AND I DONT' WANT THEM. There is no need and then back to my point. Who wants to dick with that many bolts:shaking:

As for pressed VS flat. Anything pressed is going to be stronger than anything flat. I've sold wheels to a lot of guys that jump cars with their rigs. Not just beat on them on the trail. They jump them 15' in the air. For that type of guy, pressed is the answer. If the rig is going to see a lot of street time. Pressed is a good choice too. The way they drop into the shell limits you to 3.5" bs true. But knocks the margin for error of not welding in a flat center correct. However. My flat centers are 3/8" (I would NOT wheel on 1/4", and don't offer them) centers. They are beef. With a flat center you can set your BS from 2-4.5" Maybe even 5" never tried for it.

I'll post up some pics just to show what an 8 and a 12 bolt look like. Once they have been fabed on they end up almost the same. In stock form the WMS (wheel mounting surface) on the 8 bolts is in the "shell" part of the wheel. The shell is the back half that has the studs in it. When you take the 8 bolts off you can lift the ring off. This is the ring that the rock rings are welded to and the ring that holds the outside bead in place by your internal beadlock runflat/pvc.

On a 12 bolt wheel (in stock form). The shell does not have the WMS on it. However the WMS is part of the pressed ring on the 12 bolt or the "dish", that is held onto the shell by the 12 bolts. (good picture below)

When you cut the stock centers out of an 8 and a 12 bolt what you are left with is a shell with no wms and they are just about the same at that point. This is the point you weld in your new center in the "shell" part of the wheel and with rock rings they are just about the same wheel.

12 bolts the valve stem bolts through the wheel. They have a small O ring on them. This is a hex shaped piece that has a screw in tank valve fitting. Problem with this is that you can not bend your valve stem to air them up. They may as will be welded in. I use 45 degree adapters and new tank valve fittings on the 12 bolts when adding rock rings. This allows you to air your tire up with any style of chuck behind the rock ring and not trying to fit an air bubbly style air chuck thru a 2" hole. Which doesn't work. 8 bolts however have a rubber valve stem and though we cut the holes in the rock rings these stems can be bent back so you can air up behind the rock ring as well if you don't have the right chuck.

Both styles of wheels need a rubber o ring. This o ring is what seals the 2 halfs of the wheel. When I sell a new or used wheel you get a free NEW rubber o ring.

Inserts. In stock form the 12 bolts had rubber runflats and 37" radial tires. The 8 bolts had mag. runflats and 36" bias ply tires. The rubber runflats though 2 pc. with a small collar are 1 huge piece of rubber and VERY hard to cut down (cut down=cut the profile off). The mag. runflats have a taller profile than the rubber runflats but can be cut down on a bandsaw and bolt together. Even if you run the stock mag runflat you can bolt the 2 halfs together inside the wheel. 3rd option is pvc inserts. PVC's are there too and I'll get into that here in a sec.

Why do they have runflat or need them? In stock form the Humvee's run the H1 double beadlocks we talk of. But for them to be double beadlocks there has to be something inside of the tire that allows it to pinch both inside and outside beads. When you put your tires on your wheels you need to have this runflat or pvc inside your tire already. In stock form they were designed to be able to take a bullet at war and drive out of combat. They work perfect for that. They make them beadlocks and allow you to get a hole in your tire even with no air in it allow the tire to remail as if it still has air in it because of the tall profile of the runflat. Problem for most of us is that we like to air down our tires. When we do we hit the runflat. The runflat was not designed to run on all day. Just give our men at war a chance to get out of a tight spot. That being said if you ran on that runflat all day you would destroy the inside of your tire. Now is where pvc inserts come into play. PVC inserts are machined on the edges and have been machined and have a hole drilled in them for air to go into the tire. They are installed inside the tire. When you put the tire on the wheel there is no profile like the runflat. So you could cut your valve stems off and wheel all day and not hit the profile of them. 98% of my orders sell with pvc inserts. I run them in all of my rigs.

Can I make my H1's wider? Yes. The safest way I have found to do it can be done on 12 bolts only without hacking the wheel up. They end up almost 15" wide when using 2 back halfs of the 12 bolt wheels. So.......To run 4 wide wheels you have to have 8 12 bolt wheels to make it happen. (Pictures below is on 46's)
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t213/406yj/Buggy%20Trailer/BuggyTrailer7-27-09002.jpg
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t213/406yj/Buggy%20Trailer/BuggyTrailer7-27-09003.jpg
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t213/406yj/Buggy%20Trailer/BuggyTrailer7-27-09004.jpg
Everything I have talked about I offer and don't have any problems answering any questions that anyone might have. Here are the pics I had talked of.

Stock 8 bolts
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t213/406yj/BULK%208%20BOLTS/Bulk8bolts.jpg

Stock 12 bolts (These tires I do not sell and have been trashed, I do however sell 90% and better 37's and 36's)
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t213/406yj/H1s%2010-29/CID__1029081837b.jpg

Recentered 8 bolts (with green "half rings" have flat centers) Black with silver half rings have pressed centers
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t213/406yj/PowderCoated%20H1s%2015/8boltbeadlocks9-24-09006.jpg

Recentered 8 bolt with pressed center and NO rock ring. Stock wheel ring.
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t213/406yj/PowderCoated%20H1s%2015/8boltbeadlocks9-24-09001.jpg

This picture shows 2 things. zip tied are the Black rubber o rings used to seal both sides of the wheel together. YOu have to look close but the blue thing around the bottom of the wheel. That is how low profile that the pvc inserts are, this gives you a good feel as to how far you could air down.
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t213/406yj/PowderCoated%20H1s%2015/8boltbeadlocks9-24-09007.jpg
Sandblasted 12 bolt H1's with pvc inserts "standard" rock rings
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t213/406yj/PowderCoated%20H1s%2014/Doublebeadlocks9-16-09005.jpg
12 bolt. "Standard" rock ring. Pressed centers. Hammered Jet black powder
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t213/406yj/PowderCoated%20H1s%2014/Doublebeadlocks9-16-09001.jpg
12 bolt with ring off showing the back half of the shell with pressed center and pvc inserts
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t213/406yj/PowderCoated%20H1s%2013/RC812boltspressed004.jpg
8 bolt. Hammered Jet black ring, Bright Silver shell "standard" rock ring
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t213/406yj/PowderCoated%20H1s%2013/RC812boltspressed009.jpg
8 bolt "Wicked" ring. Bright silver powder with hammered jet black shell
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t213/406yj/PowderCoated%20H1s%2013/RC812boltspressed011.jpg
Wet Black with "Wicked" rings. This pic shows how I run my 45's on the 12 bolts for the cores
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t213/406yj/PowderCoated%20H1s%2012/7-23-09004.jpg

Stock 12 bolt wheel. Notice how the WMS is on the outside of the wheel. NOT part of the back half or the "shell".
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t213/406yj/WaterJet/DSCN1852.jpg
This picture shows what it looks like when you pull the ring or the wms off of a 12 bolt. You can also see in this pic that the 12 bolts have a goofy hex shaped metal valve that bolts thru the wheel.
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t213/406yj/WaterJet/DSCN1855.jpg

This is the back half of the wheel after the WMS part of the 12 bolt or we call it on the 12 bolts the "dish" has been taken off.
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t213/406yj/WaterJet/DSCN1853.jpg

On the 12 bolts only because of the way the shells are designed and the fact I can get a shell under the waterjet but I can get the dish of a 12 bolt under the waterjet we take it to this bad boy. And let it go to work........
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t213/406yj/WaterJet/DSCN1856.jpg
That dude will flat cust through some $hit and clean!!! (not wheel related)
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t213/406yj/WaterJet/DSCN1860.jpg

Remember how the "dish" of the 12 bolt looked before?
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t213/406yj/WaterJet2/DSCN1952.jpg
Cuts clean!!! No heat. Got to love Water Jets
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t213/406yj/WaterJet2/DSCN1955.jpg

No more stock center.........Most people don't have a clue what it takes to turn a high quality wheel. There are a lot of steps and this was just a fraction of it. I hope if nothing else someone will learn the dif. between 8's and 12's and know that once the centers are cut out they are just about the same wheel only one of them has 1/3 more bolts holding it together.
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t213/406yj/WaterJet2/DSCN1958.jpg

which ones are better, and why?

:DI think I just covered that for you:D

I will not be making another H1 post for 3 mo now:laughing: Just fawking with ya. Glad I could help!

thank you very much for that post 406 yj that totally is everything i ever wanted to know

thank you very much for that post 406 yj that totally is everything i ever wanted to know


No Sweat:D

If you think of anything feel free to fire away.

Thought I might throw a few more pictures at this thread. After I'm all done this will be the official if you don't know it about H1's here ya go thread.

This picture shows the size dif. between mag runflats, Rubber runflats and PVC inserts
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t213/406yj/PowderCoated%20H1s%2016/ReCenteredH1sandbulkwheels024.jpg

Mag runflat. You can see how large the profile is. That they bolt together which makes it to where you can run them. Not suggested if you plan on airing down.
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t213/406yj/PowderCoated%20H1s%2016/ReCenteredH1sandbulkwheels025.jpg



Rubber runflat. This is for the most part a 1 pc runflat. It does not bolt together. This is the hardest rubber I've ever been around. Everyone I know that has cut them down has had to work at it. I have never put one back into a tire and never will but some guys say they have good luck with them.

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t213/406yj/PowderCoated%20H1s%2016/ReCenteredH1sandbulkwheels016.jpg
2nd pc of the rubber runflat.
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t213/406yj/PowderCoated%20H1s%2016/ReCenteredH1sandbulkwheels020.jpg

PVC inserts. Have no profile and far as height when compared to a runflat. One of these 3 things needs to go inside your tire before mounting the wheel to make them Double beadlocks.
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t213/406yj/PowderCoated%20H1s%2016/ReCenteredH1sandbulkwheels011.jpg
There is a pvc insert on this wheel but you can't tell because of their low profile
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t213/406yj/PowderCoated%20H1s%2016/ReCenteredH1sandbulkwheels013.jpg

A better view of 8 vs 12

http://77cj.littlekeylime.com/mrnimages/Hummerrims12vs8_iroks_39.JPG

These are pictures of a cut down magnesium run flat if you want to take the time to do it. The guys whole thread can be read here (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=836572)

Tonight's work sucked the balls, and not in the good kind of ball sucking way...

Cut the H1 runflat's off for Dave's wheels. I had some concerns leaving them in, as he is only running 40" tires. That doesn't put much space between that magnesium and the rubber when aired way down. I think a runflat is was cut my tire in Harlan, and I run 44's...

So, used my convertible bandsaw to cut the major part off, then took the 4.5 grinder to them to knock it down the rest of the way, then used a 4.5 flap wheel to take all the sharp edges off.

http://www.sigmamotorsports.com/ImageFolio4_files/gallery/Shop_Projects/Off_Road_Projects/Lazarus/runflat02.jpg

http://www.sigmamotorsports.com/ImageFolio4_files/gallery/Shop_Projects/Off_Road_Projects/Lazarus/runflat03.jpg

http://www.sigmamotorsports.com/ImageFolio4_files/gallery/Shop_Projects/Off_Road_Projects/Lazarus/runflat04.jpg

http://www.sigmamotorsports.com/ImageFolio4_files/gallery/Shop_Projects/Off_Road_Projects/Lazarus/runflat05.jpg

http://www.sigmamotorsports.com/ImageFolio4_files/gallery/Shop_Projects/Off_Road_Projects/Lazarus/runflat06.jpg

http://www.sigmamotorsports.com/ImageFolio4_files/gallery/Shop_Projects/Off_Road_Projects/Lazarus/runflat07.jpg

So, contrary to popular belief, the magnesium does not burst into flames and explode when you cut it. It doesn't catch on fire with the inability to be extinguished, etc. So, just out of curiosity, I took some shavings and made a little pile, and took a lighter to it. Took a second to catch, but then it did burn pretty bright, but burned out rather quickly. I took a bigger chunk and tried to catch it on fire, no luck. So, not as dangerous as people once thought. I did save all the scrap huge chunks and a tin of powder and shavings from teh cutting and grinding. Next hot campfire, I'ma toss the shit in there, see if it will burn. Leads me to believe that they are made from some sort of magnesium alloy and not pure mag... will see if i can find out, just for reference...

This whole process for the 8 half runflats took me about 2 hours. Not too bad i guess. Not looking forward to it, but I have to do it all over again with my own rig in a few days.... ugh.

awesome 406yj, thanks much. so you can run the radial 37s on the 8 bolt wheels if i understand correctly?

One thing I realized was when putting my 8 bolts together was that there would be a benefit to having 12 bolts so you can tighten it down better.

The beads on my 47s are fucking thick and it took a lot to tighten the two halfs together. I kept stripping the studs and nuts getting them so tight.

I finally swapped all the studs to course thread bolts and it got it done.

I'm mounting my 37's on 8 bolts and cant get them tight. I think it was too cold in the garage last night, so i'm going to set them out in the sun and let them warm up a bit. I had them on once before, but it was warm. I had to swap out leakey valve stems. I think the rubber was to cold to compress all the way, i had a .01" gap where theres suppose to be no gap at all. So theres that...

awesome 406yj, thanks much. so you can run the radial 37s on the 8 bolt wheels if i understand correctly?

The tire shop I use does it almost every day, for me. I am a huge pusher of PVC inserts. Not because I make a dollar on them (which IS close to what I make on them) but because they are cut to the correct width, rigid and do not have a profile. I'd guess 99% of the wheels we mount 37's on 8 bolts get pvc's
The other 1% get mag runflats.

One thing I realized was when putting my 8 bolts together was that there would be a benefit to having 12 bolts so you can tighten it down better.

The beads on my 47s are fucking thick and it took a lot to tighten the two halfs together. I kept stripping the studs and nuts getting them so tight.

I finally swapped all the studs to course thread bolts and it got it done.

Guessing your tires are LTB's in that size. All swampers have hella thick beads on them. I've seen a lot of guys punch out the studs, stick bolts thru the same hole and weld the bolt to the shell. Not sure what kind of insert you were running but the pvc's make it much easier because the edge of them has been machined so not only do they stay in place but they allow it to go into the tire rather than just push something flat up against the edge. On tires that big we use the 3/4" impact to put them together:D

I'm mounting my 37's on 8 bolts and cant get them tight. I think it was too cold in the garage last night, so i'm going to set them out in the sun and let them warm up a bit. I had them on once before, but it was warm. I had to swap out leakey valve stems. I think the rubber was to cold to compress all the way, i had a .01" gap where theres suppose to be no gap at all. So theres that...

I'm not saying you have done this so please don't read into it as such. I've had people hit me up with this problem and most of the time even though I tell people to just impact them until you can't go any more with it (which is how tough they are). If you start at 3 o clock then go to 9 then to 12 then back down to 6 and only tighten them don't hammer the first one down as far as you can go or you will not pull them together even. This goes for all beadlocks not just H1's. If you had some single beadlocks and you started at the top and worked your way around there is a chance that you will not be able to pull the one at the bottom half as tight as the first one because they are not sharing the load even. However when you have 172 bolts to tighten up they do share the load better but I'd pass on that style of wheel for the fact they are single beadlocks.

well, im not sure what i did, but i did it alright.....last night, started backing them off little by little to take the outters all the way off. One of the studs stripped going back on and one of the nuts stripped on another. Needless to say I've been reading alot today on bolts instead of studs. May pressem all out, try to go that route, then see where we go. I knew i shoulda just ordered a complete mounted set from you, Todd.

I heard somewhere that the studs are only grade 5? I know that Todd says they can take some abuse, and i'm sure they can, but why wouldnt they make them grade 8 to be able to handle more abuse? kinda the whole 5 is good 10 is better principle.

who here had done Nut and bolt (no studs) on some 8bolts, non recentered?

I know my studs strip all the time and it pisses me off. they will just randomly start eating themselves up when im backing a nut off, enough to make me not want to break them down. ive got 12 bolts and i love them, they are heavy as shit though