Anyone heard about this story yet? You can hear the 911 call at the link below, IMO both of the 911 operators (especially the woman who answers the original call) need to be finding new lines of work. The second woman was a lot nicer but still could have cost the guy his life. She instructed him to put down his weapon as the intruder kicks down his bedroom door while he's hiding. :shaking:

http://www.txcn.com/sharedcontent/dws/txcn/houston/stories/khou091012_jj_lima-shooting-homeowner-speaks.20e01a937.html

I also thought it was interesting to hear him tell the woman "please hurry, I don't want to shoot anybody". That right there is a strong statement, most people don't want to shoot anybody but like Mr. Guzman are willing to if that's what it takes to protect their life and family.

In this case it looks like a legally owned firearm was used by a concealed handgun license holder to protect his own life, I can't possibly see why someone would want to deny another person their right to do this. :confused:

Just goes to show, in TX, if someone is in your house and they're not supposed to be, especially if they're kicking down your door, shoot first, then ask questions later :flipoff2:

<-- has loaded .45 and/or 12 guage in arms reach at all times when at home :D


Looks like a good shoot, from my limited understanding of the situation.


All I know is if someone's in my house and they're not supposed to be, the phone is not the first thing I'm going to grab...

the operator sounded pissed that the "deputies were outside the house for four fucking minutes" so the home owner had to shoot the intruder.

Huh.

/shrugs

Seems to me the majority of 911 dispatchers go through Socialist Gun Hating "I'm a useless t*at" training.

Yes, even in Texas.

:shaking:

Here's an idea: If you're a Sheriff, and you know you're answering a home invasion call, how about you fucking identify yourself? Or tell the dispatcher to tell the homeowner that they're at the front door?

:shaking:

Fucking bullshit, same god damn thing that happened up here about a year or two ago to a family. Home invasion in an upper scale white lib family, husband escapes and calls the cops, cops sit outside trying to determine what to do while the pieces of shit light the guys family on fire as a diversion to escape, killing them and he has to listen to them scream because the cops still won't go in. 4 fucking deputies, amazing, they need to mount up and go inside and sweep that bitch clean. Even the dispatcher was saying "They were out there for four fucking mins....and the guy had to shoot the dude.....four mins and they couldn't get in the house?"

On a side note, is it even worth it to call 911 if a home invasion is in progress? It almost seems like a liability to call before you shoot somebody. Another perfect example also of why you can't rely on the cops to save you.:mad3:

The only thing I got from that, and maybe I didn't hear right because I was pretty done by the time the shooting started, did he only shoot one round? What the hell?

The only thing I got from that, and maybe I didn't hear right because I was pretty done by the time the shooting started, did he only shoot one round? What the hell?

Maybe two. It's hard to hear on the audio feed, and really irritating that the caller is so quiet and the operator so loud. If I was him and the operator kept asking me to speak up, I think I'd have put the phone on speaker, set it down, and gone on with handling things myself.

I just kept thinking "this is the logical result of no duty to protect, duty only to maintain order". On the one hand, I'm happy for the cops and the guy on the phone, that they didn't go in; on the other hand, it sure would've been nice for the 911 operator to have had a half a clue, and told the guy "the cops aren't going to go in until you say it's OK", rather than "the cops are right there" when they weren't, "put the gun down", and "speak up".

Maybe two. It's hard to hear on the audio feed, and really irritating that the caller is so quiet and the operator so loud. If I was him and the operator kept asking me to speak up, I think I'd have put the phone on speaker, set it down, and gone on with handling things myself.

I just kept thinking "this is the logical result of no duty to protect, duty only to maintain order". On the one hand, I'm happy for the cops and the guy on the phone, that they didn't go in; on the other hand, it sure would've been nice for the 911 operator to have had a half a clue, and told the guy "the cops aren't going to go in until you say it's OK", rather than "the cops are right there" when they weren't, "put the gun down", and "speak up".

OMFG I wanted to slap that first bitch so fucking hard. The guys scared, hiding from the perps with his weapon out and she's telling him to speak up and announce his presence inside the house and possibly alert the shitheads to his whereabouts.

I think at one point I probably would have told the dispatcher to tell the pussy ass deputies to stay outside and I will do their job for them and clear the house, if they come inside they are likely to get shot. Especially if I had a family member in another room. It might light a fire under their ass and they come in and shoot me, or I get shot my a bad guy, but at least I won't have to live with the "What if" for the rest of my life because a family member got killed.

I think at one point I probably would have told the dispatcher to tell the pussy ass deputies to stay outside and I will do their job for them and clear the house, if they come inside they are likely to get shot.

This.
However, you have to see it from the Deputies point of view. Would you go walking in the house?

This.
However, you have to see it from the Deputies point of view. Would you go walking in the house?

This is a good question. But, when i was a child in school, they urged us to have a family plan in case of a fire(in this case, home invasion). Its a great idea, and also a necessary one to avoid any losses that could be prevented.

To answer your question, yes, i would walk around in my house, I am going to go get my child and take him back to the ferthest room and do just as this man did. Call 911. Post up in the room with my weapon and if i don't hear "this is the police/sheriff/FBI ect i am shooting at the door when i hear it be messed with.

This.
However, you have to see it from the Deputies point of view. Would you go walking in the house?

Nobody held a gun to their head and made them take the job. They are supposed to protect and serve. They aren't protecting shit sitting outside by their cruisers waiting for whatever is going down in that house to play itself out. Bullshit.

Nobody held a gun to their head and made them take the job. They are supposed to protect and serve. They aren't protecting shit sitting outside by their cruisers waiting for whatever is going down in that house to play itself out. Bullshit.

Actually, the SCOTUS determined that LEO's are under no direct obligation to "protect." They only have to take the reports after and go about their business with the paper work.

Actually, the SCOTUS determined that LEO's are under no direct obligation to "protect." They only have to take the reports after and go about their business with the paper work.

Yes, it was because the father of the family that I was speaking of sued the Police and it went before the surpreme court. CT guns sales doubled and tripled overnight because of it. SCOTUS has determined alot of bullshit that goes against the natural laws of nature. Between telling the guy to put his weapon down so he doesn't shoot the cops, the cops showing up and not doing shit, an the possible legal and civil reprecussions that this man face, its all bullshit.

Then you have to ask yourself, if you live in a state that has castle doctrine laws, why the fuck even call the police while there's an intruder in your house?

You mean that, aside from having one less hand to handle my pistol/shotgun/flashlight/put on my clown mask, I'm going to have to deal with the additional stress of some dumbass yelling at me on the phone?

Fawk that :shaking:

If you're in the right, take care of business and call the cops once it's done. If all they're going to do is fondle paperwork, at least make it worth their while.

Wow do I ever appreciate my call takers at work. This stuff doesn't happen. Both dispatcher and call taker did a sub-par job imo.

Fucking bullshit, same god damn thing that happened up here about a year or two ago to a family. Home invasion in an upper scale white lib family, husband escapes and calls the cops, cops sit outside trying to determine what to do while the pieces of shit light the guys family on fire as a diversion to escape, killing them and he has to listen to them scream because the cops still won't go in. 4 fucking deputies, amazing, they need to mount up and go inside and sweep that bitch clean. Even the dispatcher was saying "They were out there for four fucking mins....and the guy had to shoot the dude.....four mins and they couldn't get in the house?"

On a side note, is it even worth it to call 911 if a home invasion is in progress? It almost seems like a liability to call before you shoot somebody. Another perfect example also of why you can't rely on the cops to save you.:mad3:

You have to consider a couple things. Not to excuse the officers but -

1.) Choke off the exits...what good is rushing the front and they slip out the back or worse?

2.) Dispatcher is the Quarterback, she needs to work between the call taker and the officers. Call taker should have spent more time talking to dispatcher updating victims location in house etc.

Maybe two. It's hard to hear on the audio feed, and really irritating that the caller is so quiet and the operator so loud. If I was him and the operator kept asking me to speak up, I think I'd have put the phone on speaker, set it down, and gone on with handling things myself.

I just kept thinking "this is the logical result of no duty to protect, duty only to maintain order". On the one hand, I'm happy for the cops and the guy on the phone, that they didn't go in; on the other hand, it sure would've been nice for the 911 operator to have had a half a clue, and told the guy "the cops aren't going to go in until you say it's OK", rather than "the cops are right there" when they weren't, "put the gun down", and "speak up".

All the call taker would have to say is stay in your room, where is it located int he house (left or right is useless detail). Cops go in identifying themselves...victims knows to relax. He calls out confirming his location...cops take him at gun point o be safe and short and dirty...problem done.

Can't hold the officers too responsible...not because they don't care, but because you have a triangle of communication going on and IMO the call taker failed the dispatcher.

/shrugs

Seems to me the majority of 911 dispatchers go through Socialist Gun Hating "I'm a useless t*at" training.

Yes, even in Texas.

:shaking:

Here's an idea: If you're a Sheriff, and you know you're answering a home invasion call, how about you fucking identify yourself? Or tell the dispatcher to tell the homeowner that they're at the front door?

:shaking:

LOL, maybe in Texas, but no in Oregon. We actually attempted to have a CCH class put on at our center, so people working odd shifts could attend. Most of the woman have CCH's and talking about guns is a normal thing at work. We constantly have a rotating stash of gun and hunting mags in the center.

The active home invasions I've delt with we ALWAYS let the subject on the phone know where the officers are. We always tell them, they are up the street waiting for cover, they are in your driveway or at your do or doing a perimeter search. Just like we always get an idea of where the subject is, where the intruder or noise is coming from and where the firearms and other weapons are, do the you have a butcher block on the counter is a common question.

I really wish people would stop painting dispatcher with such a wide brush and judging them by the small amount of tape that makes it onto the news and into the national media. It pisses me the FUCK off. I do a damn good job, I am NOT some badge bunny. This is MY job, I enjoy it, I enjoy educating and helping people. Gun owners suffer the same sort of treatment in the media, but they are typically one of the groups who jumps on dispatch. I am not condoning any actions by this dispatcher or any, the comment above just pisses me off. I don't know what kind of training they go through, or service requirements they have. The 100's or 1000's of home invasions that go down correctly with the subject being taken into custody and nobody getting hurt DON'T make the NEWS! I get calls from news services and they will ask me flat out if there was any death or traffic fatalities today. I never get, did everyone do there job and come out okay today?

You have to consider a couple things. Not to excuse the officers but -

1.) Choke off the exits...what good is rushing the front and they slip out the back or worse?

2.) Dispatcher is the Quarterback, she needs to work between the call taker and the officers. Call taker should have spent more time talking to dispatcher updating victims location in house etc.



I find this to be an issue of priorities. Whats more important, getting the good guys out alive or not letting the bad guy get away? We've already seen what "Not letting the bad guy get away" gets you first hand up here to that family in Chesire. If that's the priorities of the police then calling them before the deed is a complete waste of time and dare I say, a liability. Dead men don't argue and all that......

the first dispatcher is a joke. second one does a better job. but if you are police and enter a house anounce your presence cause i will shoot anyone that enters without identification.

Not a chance i wuold have put down my handgun.

And what good do they do if they are outside lol.

And no deputy is gonna kick down a bedroom door un announced

LOL, maybe in Texas, but no in Oregon.

I'll agree with that. Every time I've called 911 since I moved back to Oregon, and it's been a few times, I've had fantastic dispatchers. They're on the ball around here.

from my 911 experiance here in MO (2 calls in 5 weeks) both instances i explained the situation only to get told to hold for the correct dispatch. Then start over. :( WTF?! i thought glad this is not life threatning some would die before i got the "right" person. guess i always assumed 911 was for emergency not operator. YMMV oh if your wondering, nothing juicy just traffic shit, wrecks and impaired driver.

from my 911 experiance here in MO (2 calls in 5 weeks) both instances i explained the situation only to get told to hold for the correct dispatch. Then start over. :( WTF?! i thought glad this is not life threatning some would die before i got the "right" person. guess i always assumed 911 was for emergency not operator. YMMV oh if your wondering, nothing juicy just traffic shit, wrecks and impaired driver.

Were you calling from a cell phone? Were you calling about traffic problems on a State Highway or Freeway? If this is the case you were most likely routed to a county dispatch center. Once they determined you were not calling about something life threatening or something in their jurisdiction, they shipped you off to the proper dispatch. If it had been a life threatening situation then you would have experienced something completely different. Where I live, one county dispatches medical/fire and another police. We have I-5 running through the middle of town, which is State Police's patrol area, who is dispatched by their own dispatch. If I call 911 from a land line, I'll get the county who dispatches police. The immediately ask me for my address, determine where I live and ask if I need police, fire or medical. If I need anything other then police I am on with the proper dispatch within seconds, and typically the dispatcher I was talking to will brief the one that picks up the phone with what information you they have.

I guess we just give and get a better quality of service here in Oregon.

yes X2

yes X2

That is why you were transfered, the state police or highway patrol most likely has their own dispatch. Cell towers typically have 3 receiver's. Each receiver must be programmed to go to a 911 center. So where the coverage are of the receiver determines what 911 center you reach. It's far from an exact science, but it works well most of the time. Cell towers also have the ability to transfer the call load onto another tower, which can really mess with where your 911 call ends up. Driving on a state line or near a state line makes it worse, because you may end up with the wrong state.

When you dial 911 from a cell you are sent to a primary PSAP (public safety answering point). This is typically the county you are in, from there you are transferred as needed to the correct call center. Most State police and highway patrols are secondary PSAP's, meaning they take no direct 911 calls, everything is transferred to to them from a primary PSAP. This is simply because SP/HP's have no medical service associated with them, and medical is the most time sensitive in the majority of situations.

The best thing for anyone to know when they are calling 911 is where they are. If you are mobile, know the milepost, exit or cross street. Things like by the red barn or by Joe's house don't help us. If you don't know at least know your direction of travel, odd numbered highways go north/south and even go east/west. If you are not mobile, knowing the address is the best or at the very least knowing what street you are on. If you are visiting a friend, find some mail, or give them a license plate of a vehicle registered to the location.

i digress (sp) and retract my complaint! :D The first time is was on the MO KS border but new exactly where I was. The second in the middle of the state at a county line. :/hijack back to regular thread discussion.

To answer your question, yes, i would walk around in my house, I am going to go get my child and take him back to the ferthest room and do just as this man did. Call 911. Post up in the room with my weapon and if i don't hear "this is the police/sheriff/FBI ect i am shooting at the door when i hear it be messed with.

So your plan is to shoot through a door at an unknown target/threat? Good luck with that.....