I was thinking maybe we can put together a list of what most people agreed how easy to difficult the trails can be? I know its hard to say for sure because the trails are constantly changing but maybe to give us some kind of a rating scale? :D

I can try to compile the information and give a running total. What do you think? I try to go to the hammers 1 or 2 times a year and am always looking for the next level to push myself as a driver and the limits of my rig.

I'll start with the trails I have ran:

1=EASY 10= MOST DIFFICULT/UNPASSABLE

The Hammers:

NOTE: The Ratings of the trails are approximate and ever changing.

Up Sledgehammer: 4
Down:

Up Jackhammer:4
Down:

Up Jack North:
Down:

Up Aftershock: 3 or 4
Down:

Up Resolution: 4
Down:

Up Back Door: 7
Down:8

Up Front Door: Unpassable-still working on it
Down:

Up Claw Hammer: 2
Down:

Up Sunbonnet Pass: 4
Down:

Up Outer Limits:
Down:

Up Bender Alley:
Down:

Up Upper Bender Alley:
Down:

Up Outer Limits: 3 or 4
Down:

Up Misery Mile:
Down:

Up Nightmare:
Down:

Up Boulder dash: 2
Down:

Up FOH: 7 (taking the bypasses)
Down:

Up Big Johnson: 2 or 3
Down:

Up GateKeeper:
Down:

Up FOL:
Down:

Up Highway 18:
Down:

Up Highway 19:
Down:

Up Highway 20:
Down:

Up Chocolate thunder:
Down:

Up Fissure Mountain Trail:
Down:

Up Tackhammer:
Down:

Up Spooners Canyon:
Down:

Up Wrecking Ball: 6
Down:

Up Turkey Claw:
Down:

Up SOS:
Down:



Fry Mountain Range:

Up Crowbar:
Down:

Up Riffel Canyon:
Down:

Up Shaft Canyon:
Down:

Thanks for any help :D

Harold

I'm glad your doing this I was wondering the same thing. Wow If Jack and Sledge are 4's then I've got alot of work to do.

This will be interesting.. i would put sledge a step up from jack..
Choc Thunder is probably around 3 or 4
Outer Limits 5 or 6
Aftershock 3 or 4
Boulder Dash 2
Big Johnson 2 or 3
Sonbonnet 3 or 4

kinda hard to nail a number down, a lot depends on what Obstacles you try or go around... and the conditions can raise or lower the number by atleast 1 and after KOH it could have been 2.. they were pretty tore up that saturday..

Devil Dog- thanks for you input! Tore up - or even better? :D:D
Yeah, I agree. There is the water fall on chocolate thunder about 3/4 of the way up that can be a nasty climb. I have only seen a couple of people climb it. That is one of the obstacles on my checklist for KOH 2010.

i went right up that waterfall... so fast my partner didn't even get video of it.... that was a fun short trail close to the lakebed.. i thought the entrance was nastier... or atleast where we dropped into it..

Sounds like fun! I cant wait to give it a shot. Also want to try FOH and outer limits :D

Back Door is a 4 and Wrecking Ball is a 6? somethings not right here.

...somethings not right here.

No doubt! For example, Backdoor has denied me twice in a row, after doing it countless times. KOH knocked out the lower step, and I haven't been able to find the way w/o a winch or turning around. Wrecking Ball is much easier than in years past, but still fun as heck. And Chocolate Thunder was a challenge when fresh, but now it's a cakewalk due to it's getting beat'n down.

Also, the ratings change all the time...
Due to several factors ranging from weather (flash-floods), KOH running the trails (not a bad thing IMO), and perverted stacking by others (suckers).
In other words, what was mild is now wild (cool in my mind), and what was wild has been tamed (bummer). But nonetheless, the Hammers rock all the same.

The ratings DO change. And you wont know till ya repeat a trail. I see it all the time. So with that said, your ratings that you choose should be footnoted as approximate and ever-changing.

I "assume" the ratings are all going up these trails? :flipoff2: Maybe its just me, but going down seems to raise the intensity big time. For example Wrecking Ball. Going up is a blast.:grinpimp: Going down it, pucker time!:eek:

This is the same thing I've been thinking, but there has to be more range from say Claw to most of the ones that are rated 5 now. Claw is like a 20 minute trail and the others,... well you know. To me, Sledge ,OL, WB, SB and others like em would be in the 6-8 range reserving 9, 10 for unusual conditions like really tore up or buggy only trails. JM2$

Air Ride- Thanks for the heads up! I havent been there since 2007 since my little girl was born back in 2008 and wasnt able to attend KOH. I will change the rating of back door, what do you think it is currently?:D

Hammer Hog-Thanks for your input. Yes, a footnote of the trails ever changing is a great idea. I will add it now.
What is your rating of backdoor? Any others to add? :D

shoyrtt- Thanks for your input! Yes, I never thought about "down" the trails since we usually go up there. I will add that now. Great idea!

This is the same thing I've been thinking, but there has to be more range from say Claw to most of the ones that are rated 5 now. Claw is like a 20 minute trail and the others,... well you know. To me, Sledge ,OL, WB, SB and others like em would be in the 6-8 range reserving 9, 10 for unusual conditions like really tore up or buggy only trails. JM2$

Thanks for your input! With your rating these trails a 6-8 it should raise the average. Trying to keep up on it :D

All agree with the changes? :D
Let me know!

Your missing Turkey Claw and SOS on your list. I have never been good at rating trails, so I can't help there.

Rick.

I have never been good at rating trails, so I can't help there.


As often as I go, and as often as I see changes, I feel the same way.
All I can say is, it's the Hammers...if you're not built for the Hammers, expect carnage!

However once you put some numbers down on all you have, I could possibly give you some sort of consensus.

I think Camo said it best,
"If ya haven't been to the Hammers, you don't know Jack."

:smokin:

Easy Rick- Thanks for your help! Added those trails. Harold

Hammer Hog-Thanks for your help! I agree, hammer trails are unforgiving.

:D

Whats the criteria?

1= dirt road
10= not passable even with a winch

If so I dont think any of the trails would be 2 or 3.

Air Ride- Good question!
Considering that the hammer trails are some of the hardest in the country.
I would think that we should consider them from a modified rig stand point and not just a street/daily driven vehicle on 30" tires. I think there is a sign at the bottom of jack and sledge that says something like ( minumum of
33" tires with at least 1 locker?) something like that.
That is what I was basing my opinion on.
What do you guys think?

:grinpimp:

If I'm not mistaking, there already is a trail rating system. I think it tops out at 5+
Doesn't the Victor Valley 4-Wheelers have a rating system for some of the original trails they established? Ya may poke around their website.

Whats the criteria?

1= dirt road
10= not passable even with a winch

If so I dont think any of the trails would be 2 or 3.

This is why I hate numeric trail ratings. What type of truck/buggy are they based on? If Claw is a 2, what's a trail like Odessa (taking the bypass around Gatekeeper) rate? 1? Making something like Miller Jeep Trail a 0? and Cleghorn a -1? Now we're all mixed up.


I think a list of generally accepted minimum requirements to run the trail and what the main difficulty is would be a better way to go.

For example,

Claw would be something like 33s, sliders and a rear locker, main difficulty is that it's tippy. Rather than just a 2, which depending on who's rating it is very vague and pretty misleading.

If I'm not mistaking, there already is a trail rating system. I think it tops out at 5+
Doesn't the Victor Valley 4-Wheelers have a rating system for some of the original trails they established? Ya may poke around their website.

I believe on that rating system, they are all 5 or 5+

I think what this thread is about is which one is harderest which one is easier. And like you said, that always changes. One time I went through outer limits at night and cruised it, came back months later during the day and had to winch multiple times (took twice as long). Obviously there are trails that are easier like claw and there are others that you wouldn't want to take a normal body rig through.

If I'm not mistaking, there already is a trail rating system. I think it tops out at 5+
Doesn't the Victor Valley 4-Wheelers have a rating system for some of the original trails they established? Ya may poke around their website.

Thanks for the heads up! I have never been to their site. Anyone from the victor valley 4 wheelers have any information on this? Help please?
Thanks!!

This is why I hate numeric trail ratings. What type of truck/buggy are they based on? If Claw is a 2, what's a trail like Odessa (taking the bypass around Gatekeeper) rate? 1? Making something like Miller Jeep Trail a 0? and Cleghorn a -1? Now we're all mixed up.


I think a list of generally accepted minimum requirements to run the trail and what the main difficulty is would be a better way to go.

For example,

Claw would be something like 33s, sliders and a rear locker, main difficulty is that it's tippy. Rather than just a 2, which depending on who's rating it is very vague and pretty misleading.

Hmmmm. Soo far, it seems like most people are not having trouble throwing a guess out with the 1-10 rating system. I would think that most people that come out to the hammers dont try to push the limits of their fresh off the lot rigs bur rather come prepared for what is called "some of the most difficult trails in the country". Some footnotes can be added with some equipment minumum criteria but not sure if its needed. I dont see many people on the trails today that do not have lockers.
The ratings we are coming up with are basic ratings and can be interpreted in many different ways.
Im sure your always going to get the guys that will say, " I can run that in my 4wd yugo with no lockers".

I believe on that rating system, they are all 5 or 5+

I think what this thread is about is which one is harderest which one is easier. And like you said, that always changes. One time I went through outer limits at night and cruised it, came back months later during the day and had to winch multiple times (took twice as long). Obviously there are trails that are easier like claw and there are others that you wouldn't want to take a normal body rig through.

Thanks for your input. I agree! :D

This is why I hate numeric trail ratings. What type of truck/buggy are they based on? If Claw is a 2, what's a trail like Odessa (taking the bypass around Gatekeeper) rate? 1? Making something like Miller Jeep Trail a 0? and Cleghorn a -1? Now we're all mixed up.
Which is why this post is BS. You're either ready and trying, or your not!!!! Numbers do not make a difference!!

Looks like you'll just have to go out and rate each trail and tell us what you think. Kinda like the testicle-factor, if they retreat 3", well then it's a 3, and so on.

If anything it would be interesting to have a list, easiest to hardest, for folks to work there way in, a place to start as it were.

bob

www.extremewheelers4christ.org

I am from VV4W and found and built most of the original trails(more trails to come). I agree that 1 to 5 doesn't justify some of that stuff out there and isn't sufficient to describe such a diverse set of trails. For example, if 80% are all 5 or 5+ then we need 5+++ to decribe BD and others. If we describe a 1 to 10 system for use at the Hammers, so what, it's a Hammer thing and that's where most things evolve anyway.
Maybe you want to use Sledge(the absolute original hammer trail and still tough) as a 5 and judge everything else above or below that. This would leave room(6 to 10) for tougher trails and better rigs for future sport evolution.
Keep in mind that would make Claw around a 2?

I am from VV4W and found and built most of the original trails(more trails to come). I agree that 1 to 5 doesn't justify some of that stuff out there and isn't sufficient to describe such a diverse set of trails. For example, if 80% are all 5 or 5+ then we need 5+++ to decribe BD and others. If we describe a 1 to 10 system for use at the Hammers, so what, it's a Hammer thing and that's where most things evolve anyway.
Maybe you want to use Sledge(the absolute original hammer trail and still tough) as a 5 and judge everything else above or below that. This would leave room(6 to 10) for tougher trails and better rigs for future sport evolution.
Keep in mind that would make Claw around a 2?

:SALUTE:

Thanks for all your hard work Sir. I as well as many others enjoy the trails you guys broke very much and hope that the hammers will stay open forever.
:D

Looks like you'll just have to go out and rate each trail and tell us what you think. Kinda like the testicle-factor, if they retreat 3", well then it's a 3, and so on.

Make it more like a pucker factor rating. :eek:

If Backdoor is a 5+++, then we already have 6's, 7's, and 8's out here no problem. It's all relative. In JV, that's a "hard" trail. Out here that waterfall is a just another "easy" obstacle on over 1/2 the trails we run. Different terrains, different ideals, and rigs that are usually built to what they normally wheel. That's why rating systems suck. Like someone else said, either you're ready to run, or you're not. More than likely you'd be running any given trail with someone who has done it before and they can give you an idea. It also comes with how confident you are in your driving skills and your rig.

If Backdoor is a 5+++, then we already have 6's, 7's, and 8's out here no problem. It's all relative. In JV, that's a "hard" trail. Out here that waterfall is a just another "easy" obstacle on over 1/2 the trails we run.

oh here we go... our trails are tougher than your trails.. blah blah blah.. if yours is a 5 then ours is a 6.. :flipoff2:

but seriously, like stated above, 1 - 10 is a good base system to go off of, all you need is simple guidelines, 1 = stock vehicle (or whatever) 10 being moon buggy or what not and 5 is something else.. all trails could be put into these catagories with the obvious footnotes of changes and what not.. i'm not saying we need them or want them, but i think ratings have their place for the newer wheelers in giving them general ideas.. for most "hardcore" guys, i am sure ratings are never looked at, unless it's to justify towing your junk that far to drive what?

oh here we go... our trails are tougher than your trails.. blah blah blah.. if yours is a 5 then ours is a 6.. :flipoff2:

but seriously, like stated above, 1 - 10 is a good base system to go off of, all you need is simple guidelines, 1 = stock vehicle (or whatever) 10 being moon buggy or what not and 5 is something else.. all trails could be put into these catagories with the obvious footnotes of changes and what not.. i'm not saying we need them or want them, but i think ratings have their place for the newer wheelers in giving them general ideas.. for most "hardcore" guys, i am sure ratings are never looked at, unless it's to justify towing your junk that far to drive what?

Then why rate the buggy trails? If it's an already rated trail, then fine. If it's not rated and a buggy trail, newbies don't need to worry about it.

If Backdoor is a 5+++, then we already have 6's, 7's, and 8's out here no problem. It's all relative. In JV, that's a "hard" trail. Out here that waterfall is a just another "easy" obstacle on over 1/2 the trails we run. Different terrains, different ideals, and rigs that are usually built to what they normally wheel. That's why rating systems suck. Like someone else said, either you're ready to run, or you're not. More than likely you'd be running any given trail with someone who has done it before and they can give you an idea. It also comes with how confident you are in your driving skills and your rig.

In Jv that is not a hard trail. Just the only trail everyone shows up to want to make... Jv has crazy stuff just not where the mainstream go..

The Hammers are like no other. Just knowing you're going to wheel here means you are in for some serious wheeling..."Like no other!"
In my opinion, putting numeric ratings at the Hammers is kind of redundant, but may have it's place for the newb as said above. Most all the trails are known as Hardcore...period. When something new is put in, (if) when asking how hard it is, it's usually compared to an existing trail and such. Then just go do it.
I'm asked all the time what trails I recommend. The answer is given when I know how capable and experienced they are. Usually they want to do something "easy." I can't tell you how many times Claw is where I send them.
But if they're built for it, I sent them to Sledge and so on.
Going 1-10 may be a bit too wide of a range, unless you use 1 as a dirt road, and 10 as winch sections.

I do technical rock climbing as well, and there's what is know as the Yosemite Decimal System (http://www.climber.org/data/decimal.html). Check out the link and try to understand it. It's fairly simple and could be used similarly for what's being attempted here. ...just a thought.

In Jv that is not a hard trail. Just the only trail everyone shows up to want to make... Jv has crazy stuff just not where the mainstream go..

I know there's harder(and will be running them soon), but if a JV person is saying BD is a 5+++, I don't think so. As I said it's all relative. I've been out there and will still stand by what I said. Have you been out here? Leave the 1-5 trail rating system of the common trails for newbies/average wheelers. The buggy stuff is on a different level and if you have a buggy, then you know what's what and what you can do. Or atleast you should have a pretty good idea.

I know there's harder(and will be running them soon), but if a JV person is saying BD is a 5+++, I don't think so. As I said it's all relative. I've been out there and will still stand by what I said. Have you been out here? Leave the 1-5 trail rating system of the common trails for newbies/average wheelers. The buggy stuff is on a different level and if you have a buggy, then you know what's what and what you can do. Or atleast you should have a pretty good idea.
The last bunch of responses, is why I don't rate trails, its all open to interpretation, and I am so disconnected with average trail rigs, that my idea of Easy, is different than a guy with a Jeep on 40's. If you think backdoor is simply a 5, or 6 at best, then your taking the easy line. Try all the way to the right, and report back when your done.

IMO, 1-5 should be for full bodied rigs, and 5-10 for buggies. Sure you can blur those lines as well...................interpretation. But that at least it gives a rough estimate on what your rig can do, without the chance of serious body damage, or catastrophic mechanical failure. .02

Funny story;

I led trails for our local club a couple years back, and we had just opened a new trail. I said it was buggy only, but we had gotten Jeeps through there as well, so that was deemed to be a 5 rating. I protested, and lost. During our morning of grouping,................ I approached a guy waitng in line, and tried to convey what his Completely restored full bodied rig was in for, and he let me know that he was no rookie, and knew what he was doing, been to all the 5 rated trails in the west, and his buddies all backed him. I said alllllllrighty then, and within 2/3 of the trail, his rig was ruined externaly, along with some other overachievers.:p He never said a word to me, but later he let every one know I should never lead a run again, as that was not a 5, more like a 10.:laughing: Apparently some folks use a different scale in different spots, we stop at five!:laughing::laughing:

Careful what ya wish for, you just might get it.:D

Rick.

...it's all relative....
The buggy stuff is on a different level...

Exactly!
That's why rating the Hammers is redundant.
The idea is in good intention I'm sure, but w/ such variation factors, it's going to be next to impossible to give each trail a universal numeric rating. Having a rating system exclusive for the Hammers will never catch on for that reason alone. Using the more common "trail" rating system will not work here due to the wide range of variables as stressed above.

But going back to the first original post, if you are wanting a general consensus on a 1-10 rating of difficulty based from experience between JUST the Hammer trails, that's one thing, but for an actual rating system to be used/implemented won't work in my opinion. And again, what ratings I may give today would be different than how I would have rated it from last year...due to the continuing changes due to traffic/flash-flooding/stackers/etc...

This topic is dumb.

The Hammers are not Moab where every trail stays the same year after year. At the Hammers the rocks get shuffled around year after year, either by nature or the anti-nature, stacking.

It's the fuckin Hammers, just go wheel it, you might get spanked, you might blow on through without a reverse. Whatever it may be, enjoy your time out there.

This topic is dumb.

The Hammers are not Moab where every trail stays the same year after year. At the Hammers the rocks get shuffled around year after year, either by nature or the anti-nature, stacking.

It's the fuckin Hammers, just go wheel it, you might get spanked, you might blow on through without a reverse. Whatever it may be, enjoy your time out there.


So what trails should I run in my 90 YJ with a bad fuel pump? Its Open on 31's, but I know what I am doing, cause I have lost the last two KOH races with style!:grinpimp:

Your right MD, my scale was dumb. It should be 1-3 for IFS rigs, 3-5 for full bodied, and 5-10 for the rest of us!:laughing::laughing:


Rick.

But I want my trails to go to 11, it's 1 more:laughing:

This topic is dumb.

The Hammers are not Moab where every trail stays the same year after year. At the Hammers the rocks get shuffled around year after year, either by nature or the anti-nature, stacking.

It's the fuckin Hammers, just go wheel it, you might get spanked, you might blow on through without a reverse. Whatever it may be, enjoy your time out there.

:beer:

It's the fuckin Hammers, just go wheel it, you might get spanked, you might blow on through without a reverse. Whatever it may be, enjoy your time out there.

I couldn't agree more.. after spending 12 years on the east coast.. only dreaming of this place.. i now get to live it.. and all you will hear me say is the hammers is the greatest place on earth.. :D

but for the love of pete, turn the damn wind off will you.. :flipoff2:

But I want my trails to go to 11, it's 1 more:laughing:

Oh shit, another overachiever!:laughing:

My scale will forever go to 11 cause, MD is my hero!:D 10-11 will only be passable with MD spotting you! :grinpimp:

Rick.

I know there's harder(and will be running them soon), but if a JV person is saying BD is a 5+++, I don't think so. As I said it's all relative. I've been out there and will still stand by what I said. Have you been out here? Leave the 1-5 trail rating system of the common trails for newbies/average wheelers. The buggy stuff is on a different level and if you have a buggy, then you know what's what and what you can do. Or atleast you should have a pretty good idea.


I hope to make it out there some day...:grinpimp:

YouTube - Mark BD (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKf0kMSOIIo&feature=related)

This topic is dumb.

The Hammers are not Moab where every trail stays the same year after year. At the Hammers the rocks get shuffled around year after year, either by nature or the anti-nature, stacking.

It's the fuckin Hammers, just go wheel it, you might get spanked, you might blow on through without a reverse. Whatever it may be, enjoy your time out there.

Thanks for your input :flipoff2:

Exactly!
That's why rating the Hammers is redundant.
The idea is in good intention I'm sure, but w/ such variation factors, it's going to be next to impossible to give each trail a universal numeric rating. Having a rating system exclusive for the Hammers will never catch on for that reason alone. Using the more common "trail" rating system will not work here due to the wide range of variables as stressed above.

But going back to the first original post, if you are wanting a general consensus on a 1-10 rating of difficulty based from experience between JUST the Hammer trails, that's one thing, but for an actual rating system to be used/implemented won't work in my opinion. And again, what ratings I may give today would be different than how I would have rated it from last year...due to the continuing changes due to traffic/flash-flooding/stackers/etc...

What I was looking for was a general consensus on a 1-10 scale. Doesnt have to be something with every technical little thing because I agree, its impossible to give it an exact rating. After the next flash flood things change. I agree.
There will be lots of people coming out for KOH 2010 and im sure a lot of people will be wondering where to start. I figured I would help out the wheelin' community but I seem to be getting a lot of opposition.

Thanks for your help! :D

Back to what I said, if you're ready, run them. If you're not, then don't. There's not a rating system that works for the Hammers, because they change every day. How else do you explain people cleaning up on Sledge one day and having their asses handed to them the next day. You can apply that to every trail out there. And if they are coming out for KOH, they know what they're in for!!

I agree with MD, turn them up to 11 :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

I hope to make it out there some day...:grinpimp:

YouTube - Mark BD (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKf0kMSOIIo&feature=related)

Nice rig and climb:smokin:

I read this whole post, and I agree there's no way to rate the Hammers, as the constantly change..

I think there is a way to have a "minimum recommended (not required) rig set-up" which is what the "rating" system is based on any way. The FS has been using the 1-5 system for years and most of the 4wd orgs have adopted the same 1-5 system. Problem is the sport has evolved so much (and palces like the Hammers, NM, and AZ) that what used to be extreme and unpassable, is now driven up unassited with todays technology. The system should be based on the vehicles capabilities, not the trail. Then the drivers can make the decision to go or no-go based on their ability of what is considered recomended. I've done trails in my 6000lb wagon that people told me flat out I can not do and will have to turn around with nothing more than (7) 3 point turns in the whole 33 miles. I made the decision based on what people told me the majority of the rigs that run the trail are set up like and I knew I could hang with those rigs just fine.

something like:

1- stock
2- lift and 33's
3- 35+ and rear locker
4- 35+, rear locker, winch, front posi
5- 35+, f&r lockers, body damage, under armor
6- 38+, minimal body panels or Exo
7- 40+
8- 40+ tube Buggy
9- be as cool as Mustard Dog
10- be as cool, tatted, and intimidating as MD
11- you're not MD, don't even think about it :flipoff2:

:usa:

I don't think you can put a number on the trails. They change each time a rig goes over it. I think the the only way you can label a trail at the Hammers is like this.

Boone road.
Possible body, drivetrain damage.
Minor body, drivetrain damage.
Major body, drivetrain damage.
Bring a sleeping bag and extra beer.

I guess I'm a newb , at least when it comes to the Hammers thats probably why I like the idea of ratings, so I know what I'm in for even if the ratings are decieving. I am also I rock climber and use the guide books with ratings to determin the climbs I will do. Some times though depending on your style a 5.8 can climb like a 5.10 and so on but these ratings are not based on the ability of the climber. Unlike climbing the type of rig you drive has alot to do with the difficulty of any trail. Also unlike Climbing the trails often change and the climbs do not.
The more I wheel the more I realize that the difficulty of trails is really realative. I just want to go out and have fun and at the same time take my rig to the next level. By the way ,what is that next level?

I taked to this guy yesterday, & he told me asbout this thread.

What I got was he wanted to know what trails were easy, hard.real hard
thisway for people who have never been there, they know what trails to try in the little time they have while there.
if you only have 1 day, no sence hitting the hardest trail in your rig on 33s to break 1st 20minutes there:D:(

so with that said, I think the whole point of this thread was just worded wrong is all:p


I never been to the hammers, I think that place would eat me alive,lol

I taked to this guy yesterday, & he told me asbout this thread.

What I got was he wanted to know what trails were easy, hard.real hard
thisway for people who have never been there, they know what trails to try in the little time they have while there.
if you only have 1 day, no sence hitting the hardest trail in your rig on 33s to break 1st 20minutes there:D:(

so with that said, I think the whole point of this thread was just worded wrong is all:p


I never been to the hammers, I think that place would eat me alive,lol

Seabass44- Great to meet you yesterday! Great driving on that bypass we took. Really cool to see a HUGE full size full bodied rig on the trail getting it :D

Seabass44- Great to meet you yesterday! Great driving on that bypass we took. Really cool to see a HUGE full size full bodied rig on the trail getting it :D

thx, good meeting you too.
way cool rig ya got:grinpimp:

nobody got good pics of me there either.....:p
got out of there around 6pm, home by 8:30pm
can't wait till spring/summer to do some longer camping trips:smokin:

first timers need to attempt claw or lower big johnson first, if they are still smiling, upper big johnson, aftershock, sledge, jack, by then you will get the picture

bob

ew4c

first timers need to attempt claw or lower big johnson first, if they are still smiling, upper big johnson, aftershock, sledge, jack, by then you will get the picture

bob

ew4c

sounds like good useful advice, thx

if I ever get down there I'll just have to get md to show me the trails:)

first timers need to attempt claw or lower big johnson first, if they are still smiling, upper big johnson, aftershock, sledge, jack, by then you will get the picture

bob

ew4c

By the time I finished Jack I was laughing my head off of coarse I had drank a few Monsters and it was 2:00 in the morning, maybe I was delerious.

Before I went to the Hammes, I searched this section of the board. I had heard and talked to my buddies before hand about all the trails....I had a pretty good idea of what it was all about....

Before I went to the Hammes, I searched this section of the board. I had heard and talked to my buddies before hand about all the trails....I had a pretty good idea of what it was all about....

Where are the Hammes?:flipoff2:


Rick.

Maybe your stil delerious, for posting something like that.



Where are the Hammes?:flipoff2:


Rick.

AAAAWWW DANG Rick!! Caught me quick posting at work....next time I'll run SpellCheck!!

No big deal Hoss.:flipoff2:

Before I went to the Hammers, I searched this section of the board. I had heard and talked to my buddies before hand about all the trails....I had a pretty good idea of what it was all about....

Don't you feel sorry for the average dude, without even your faint attachments for guides. If he was to search this section, and there was a scale of 1-11, he "may" be better off, than if he bought a book of maps. Don't ya think? I mean, MD can't be everyones personal guide, can he?
:confused: With MD, these trails are all 2's anyway!:flipoff2:

Not everyone is as well conected as you, that is all,

Rick.

[QUOTE=Easy Rick;10566199]Maybe your still delerious, for posting something like that.


(May be) I was those Monster drinks can really get to you,at least they kept me awake.

No big deal Hoss.:flipoff2:



Don't you feel sorry for the average dude, without even your faint attachments for guides. If he was to search this section, and there was a scale of 1-11, he "may" be better off, than if he bought a book of maps. Don't ya think? I mean, MD can't be everyones personal guide, can he?
:confused: With MD, these trails are all 2's anyway!:flipoff2:

Not everyone is as well conected as you, that is all,

Rick.

I'm pickin' up what your layin' down!!

If everybody had a pimp ass buggy, we wouldn't need these threads....just sayin'......:D

I'm pickin' up what your layin' down!!



I figured you were!;)

What would you say are the TOP 5 HARDEST trails right now??? We all know trails change constantlly and is tough to judge but, what trails gave up the best battle on your last trip?

1. Upper Bender Alley
1. FOH
3. SOS
4. FOL
5. Back Door

Off the top of my head.