I have a 250 amp Miller industrial stick box. It works great. I love it.

I do a bunch of fabrication work for projects using mostly 7014 rods, but sometimes 7018s.

I am in need of a plasma cutter something fierce. I used a small 30A unit freehand. I liked it. Someday I would probably build a CNC cutter table for a plasma cutter.

A MIG would also be very handy. I'm tired of changing rods ! I know nothing about recent MIG technology, ie flux core wire, etc. How does the cost compare to rods ? Is it suitable for welding 3/8 and 1/2" material in one pass like my Miller does ? How is the flux core wire weld quality compared to stick welds ?

I've never TIG welded. What am I missing ?

Is there one box that does MIG/TIG and Plasma ?

How do the small, high technology boxes do with stick welding compared to the big transformer based boxes (ie my 250 Miller) ?

I've tried to figure this out by searching and reading, but nothing seems to directly address these questions.

Thanks

I haven't seen MIG/TIG/Plasma all in one machine... but I think you can do something like that with a centralized power source, and then add the separate/small units.

Do you need it portable like a gas/diesel MIG/TIG/STICk setup then plug a PLASMA into it..?

Powermig 255
Precision Tig 225
Hypertherm 45 (or whatever their new small model is)

Would be a good shop / non-mobile setup.

powermig 350mp does TIG and MIG but I believe only DC tig.

If you are going to weld 1/4, 3/8 with a real MIG you won't use fluxcore...

I haven't seen MIG/TIG/Plasma all in one machine... but I think you can do something like that with a centralized power source, and then add the separate/small units.

OK. I thought it was just me, but I guess not.


Do you need it portable like a gas/diesel MIG/TIG/STICk setup then plug a PLASMA into it..?

Generally, shop use only. I don't want an engine driven unit.


Powermig 255
Precision Tig 225
Hypertherm 45 (or whatever their new small model is)

Would be a good shop / non-mobile setup.


What makes them good ?


powermig 350mp does TIG and MIG but I believe only DC tig.

If you are going to weld 1/4, 3/8 with a real MIG you won't use fluxcore...

I am trying to avoid having to deal with gas bottles, etc. I might only do 2 or 3 projects a year.

if you only do 2 or 3 projects a year stick with the Miller 250 cc unit it is a good unit for what you are doing

OK. I thought it was just me, but I guess not.



Generally, shop use only. I don't want an engine driven unit.



What makes them good ?



I am trying to avoid having to deal with gas bottles, etc. I might only do 2 or 3 projects a year.

You can't go wrong with any of the Lincoln or Miller heavy duty welders. Their quality, warranty, customer service, etc is what makes them "good".

As far as gas bottles... how do you plan to TIG then ??? If you are wanting to upgrade to these type of machines gas bottles is pretty much the least expensive thing. The gas stores no the back of the welders and rolls with them, it's not a concern and it won't be going bad anytime soon.

Watch CL for owner bottles and then swap out or upgrade based on your needs. Most places let you swap for different types of bottles too... IE: C02 to Nitrogen, c02 to argon, etc... you just pay the difference.

If you are like me you don't want to have to go back and forth so just get hte LARGEST you can fit on the welder, and be good for 2-3 years :D

You don't want a nice MIG welder and then use fluxcore that is no fun at all.

if you only do 2 or 3 projects a year stick with the Miller 250 cc unit it is a good unit for what you are doing

Or that.

I don't understand how you need a PLasma REALLY BAD but only do 2 or 3 projects a year. Get a good torch setup, and call it good. Hell, even the cheap HF torch KIT w/hose will work for that... mines going strong after 5 years and I got it nearly free on CL new :smokin:

Most of the Miller tig machines will also allow arc welding. I do believe there are some with a spool system on their tig welders on the miller forum.

if you only do 2 or 3 projects a year stick with the Miller 250 cc unit it is a good unit for what you are doing

The problem with stick welding is that its no good for light stuff and I always seem to burn through a rod half way through my bead. I'm tired of changing frigging rods all the time.

You can't go wrong with any of the Lincoln or Miller heavy duty welders. Their quality, warranty, customer service, etc is what makes them "good".

OK.

As far as gas bottles... how do you plan to TIG then ??? If you are wanting to upgrade to these type of machines gas bottles is pretty much the least expensive thing. The gas stores no the back of the welders and rolls with them, it's not a concern and it won't be going bad anytime soon.

Well... I bought a CO2 bottle and got it filled about 5 years ago for a project. Don't ask. Anyway... went back to get it refilled and its expired. DOH !

I have no idea what the consumables cost for MIG versus stick. Enlighten me. How long does a cylinder of various gas last versus doing the same amount of welding with rods. How much is MIG wire compared to rods. I generally burn 1/8 and 5/32 7014s.

Watch CL for owner bottles and then swap out or upgrade based on your needs. Most places let you swap for different types of bottles too... IE: C02 to Nitrogen, c02 to argon, etc... you just pay the difference.

What is CL ?

If you are like me you don't want to have to go back and forth so just get hte LARGEST you can fit on the welder, and be good for 2-3 years :D

I wouldn't want to run out on a weekend in the middle of a project !

You don't want a nice MIG welder and then use fluxcore that is no fun at all.

Excuse my ignorance, but why do you say that ? Can one weld fairly thin material with fluxcore wire ?

Thanks for the reply.

Or that.

I don't understand how you need a PLasma REALLY BAD but only do 2 or 3 projects a year. Get a good torch setup, and call it good. Hell, even the cheap HF torch KIT w/hose will work for that... mines going strong after 5 years and I got it nearly free on CL new :smokin:

I like plasma a lot better than a torch.

Yesterday I spent 4 hours drilling and pounding out 6 rivets on the frame of my truck. Man I was frustrated. A plasma cutter would have made short work of them. I don't think I would have wanted to take a torch under there.

You can't cut aluminum with a torch. You can't (easily) put a torch on a CNC cutting table. Plasma cuts smoother and nicer.

I have a good stick box. I'll keep it no matter what. I need the plasma functionality. I think MIG would be more useful to me than TIG, but both would be really nice.

I was looking at the Everlast units and they have stick, TIG and plasma. I wish they were MIG, TIG and plasma because together with my stick box I would have the whole spectrum covered.

Comments ?

CL = CraigsList

And if you are only doing a few projects a year or even just normal hobby work the large bottles will last 1 year at least.

I forget what I paid for a 33lb spool of wire, it wasn't much.

Fluxcore sucks. Period. It's great for using in the field where it's windy, or in a readywelder that you carry in your wheelin rig. For welding in the shop there's just so much spatter and mess that it really defeats all the high points of a MIG.

As for cost, a 11lb spool of wire runs around $30 and I can just about build a whole buggy with one spool. A full tank of argon/CO2 mix is $40-45 and will last 2-3 spools of wire. Even with using my MIG every day I generally only refill my MIG tank about every 2-3 months. The TIG lasts much longer because of lower usage.

I dont know how much rods cost, but once you get used to MIG I doubt you'll care which one costs more.

Fluxcore sucks. Period. It's great for using in the field where it's windy, or in a readywelder that you carry in your wheelin rig. For welding in the shop there's just so much spatter and mess that it really defeats all the high points of a MIG.

As for cost, a 11lb spool of wire runs around $30 and I can just about build a whole buggy with one spool. A full tank of argon/CO2 mix is $40-45 and will last 2-3 spools of wire. Even with using my MIG every day I generally only refill my MIG tank about every 2-3 months. The TIG lasts much longer because of lower usage.

I dont know how much rods cost, but once you get used to MIG I doubt you'll care which one costs more.

Do you get the hookup for tank swaps $40-$45 for an entire tank... ?? Or, I guess how many CF are your tanks?

FYI - Cylinder Size Chart (http://www.airweld.net/images/Cylindersizechart.gif)

I think mine is stamped 313cf.

The $40-45 is for just the gas "refill". They just swap tanks. I use the largest standard tanks, 300-350cf. I cant remember what the initial cost of the tanks was, but like others said you can get em pretty cheap if you watch craigslist.

The $40-45 is for just the gas "refill". They just swap tanks. I use the largest standard tanks, 300-350cf. I cant remember what the initial cost of the tanks was, but like others said you can get em pretty cheap if you watch craigslist.

Yeah, same tanks as me... hmm I think they charge us up here $60-80 depending on discount rate.

For argon I think it was around $90 :eek:

You guys are so lucky you don't have tank size limitations in the States...
Over a certain (I believe 80cf) I have to lease the tank... I believe I'm capped at a 60cf bottle, which isn't too bad for the home shop...

I can't even imagine how big a 300cf bottle must be... I don't think I'm ever see one....:eek:

;10508692']You guys are so lucky you don't have tank size limitations in the States...
Over a certain (I believe 80cf) I have to lease the tank... I believe I'm capped at a 60cf bottle, which isn't too bad for the home shop...

I can't even imagine how big a 300cf bottle must be... I don't think I'm ever see one....:eek:

not a very good pic but the one nearest me taking the pic is 330cf.

http://www.4x4blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/lincoln-welder-family.jpg

;10508692']You guys are so lucky you don't have tank size limitations in the States...
Over a certain (I believe 80cf) I have to lease the tank... I believe I'm capped at a 60cf bottle, which isn't too bad for the home shop...

I can't even imagine how big a 300cf bottle must be... I don't think I'm ever see one....:eek:

The tank size limitations on lease versus own are from your supplier, not the government. The supplier I use is more than happy to sell you a 460 CF XPR cylinder and exchange/refill it for you.

;10508692']
I can't even imagine how big a 300cf bottle must be... I don't think I'm ever see one....:eek:

You should see some one the 2900cf dewars sometime then, running full bore with ice coming off the lines. :smokin:

Im confused here, you only run 2-3 projects a year and get tired changing rods? I think you need bigger rods or something, a 1/8 7018 yields 6-8" of weld. Are you really doing that much welding?

I think you'd be best skipping on the MIG for now and buying a nice torch AND plasma set. (Get the torch first, way more useful than a plas) You were talking about cutting rivets off? A torch is probably the best tool for that, you can clean the heads right off and not touch the base metal.

To get a MIG thats going to do good on 1/2" plate requires alot of power and .035-.045 wire but you'd be better off running dual-shield (flux-core wire with external shielding gas) if thats something you do the most. It's much smoother, cleaner and faster than stick.

Im confused here, you only run 2-3 projects a year and get tired changing rods? I think you need bigger rods or something, a 1/8 7018 yields 6-8" of weld.

Bigger rods = less penetration and they need more heat which you sometimes can't use on lighter material.

Are you really doing that much welding?

Burned through 2/3 of a 5 Kg (11 pound box) in the last 2 days. I probably go through 3-4 boxes a year.

Question: do the electronic stick boxes weld as nice as the big transformer boxes ?

Thanks

Who told you bigger rods=less penetration? If your comparing a 3/32 6010 to an 1/8 7024 then you might be right, but thats apples to oranges. Bigger rods run more amps which gives you more penetration.

So you did about 3-4 lbs of rods per day for 2 days and your tired of changing rods? :shaking: Thats nothing.

If your set on getting a MIG and want to be able to do thick plate like you mentioned just make sure it has the amps for it. You can run smaller wire on a big machine, but not vice-versa.

I have never run an inverter with stick, but everything ive heard varies with the person your talking to. It comes down to personal prefrence, but its not going to be a huge advanatge at all (if any) over the machine you have now.

Who told you bigger rods=less penetration? If your comparing a 3/32 6010 to an 1/8 7024 then you might be right, but thats apples to oranges. Bigger rods run more amps which gives you more penetration.

FOR THE SAME CURRENT, a smaller rod has less arc area = more intense energy density = deeper penetration.

As I said above, when you are welding thinner material you have to keep the amps down so as not to overheat it. Therefore a smaller rod will give deeper penetration on the same material. Its all about penetration... :D

Even with thicker material, one often has to keep the amps down in order to avoid warpage.

So you did about 3-4 lbs of rods per day for 2 days and your tired of changing rods? :shaking: Thats nothing.

Make that 3 days in a row. I'm just in from the shop after a morning of fabricating. Changing the rods isn't the end of the world, but its just another thing that takes time.

What is the cleanup like after a MIG weld ?

If your set on getting a MIG and want to be able to do thick plate like you mentioned just make sure it has the amps for it. You can run smaller wire on a big machine, but not vice-versa.

What do you call a big machine ? I'm wondering if I could sell my Miller and be happy with a MIG and an all in one box that does stick.

I have never run an inverter with stick, but everything ive heard varies with the person your talking to. It comes down to personal prefrence, but its not going to be a huge advanatge at all (if any) over the machine you have now.

My Miller is a sweet welder as far as I can tell. It is huge and noisy though... but one can weld forever and it never overheats or trips the breaker and the arc quality seems to be really good.

Even with thicker material, one often has to keep the amps down in order to avoid warpage.


No, one doesnt. One who welds thick material with low amps is a dumbass and shouldnt be trusted to weld such material. Distortion cant always be controlled by altering the welding parameters, sometimes you just need to find ways to cope with it.

Your reasoning for wanting a MIG machine is lost on me but alas, Id say your looking at something in the 200-300A range if you want to be able to do 1 pass 1/2" material. Id defiantly invest in a spool of dualshield wire then, if you get a E71-T1-M wire you can run it in all positions and use the same gas you would for regular MIG. Then all you have to do to change back is switch wire.

Cleanup is almost non existant if you get the parameters right. The slag on dualshield should almost fall off, and MIG should need no cleanup at all. Self shielded fluxcore is another story, I hate that crap.

Powermig 255 or Powermig 350mp if you want to go big.

Powermig 255 or Powermig 350mp if you want to go big.

Thanks.

Thanks.

Post some "projects" that you are doing.

Curious what you regularly do that requires 1/2" all the time :smokin:

The projects where I weld 1/2" material are for work. I am not allowed to share them. Lets just say that some of the stuff I work on makes your trucks look like tinker toys.

The project I am working on this week is an air ride 4 bar rear suspension for my truck. I'll post some pictures when its done. I'm painting pieces and bolting them on now.

nifty:D

me2 you have a PM