I need to find a solution to my epidemic:
1. My suspension needs to be as close to free as possible
2. I want it to be super flexy yet still dd

my options, as I see it are:

1. SOA
2. 1/4elip front / 1/4elip rear
3. soa front / 1/4elip rear
4. CO's f/r
5. coils f/r
6. air bags f/r
7. coil front/ 1/4elip rear

i want + 90 degree approach and departure angles so that rules out soa. cost rules out co's. so that leaves the rest. air bags would probably end up costing the most because the materials would be pricey, but they are really cool. I've thought about an air spring with a buggy leaf on the top mount, I'd like to know what y'all think of that. coils are always a good option. The suspension that I am most intrigued by is the 1/4eliptical front and rear. However, I have never seen it except in a tube rock buggy. I am wondering if it is any good on the street (of course i'd run a sway bar). Just in case you are wondering my planed drivetrain is fuel injected 2f/sm465/203box/4spd tcase/fj60axels with my stock 4.10's oh and I'll most likely run 37"krawlers or mtr's. My rig will be driven EVERY day, 5days a week to school and work and on the weekends for 4wheeling, skiing and camping. It will see alot of highway miles. Thanks in advance for your input

just soa it. if it is going to be driven every day i doubt it us really that important to have a full 90degree approach and deparure angle. the rest is going to cost you. quality links for any link suspension will cost you. the link material it's self needs to be beefy to take abuse and the hiems or jonny joints add up quik. a soa suspension works. yes you may have alittle overhang but if you build it right you will not have much. just my op.

Originally posted by missingmy84toy
my planed drivetrain is fuel injected 2f..........My rig will be driven EVERY day, 5days a week to school and work and on the weekends for 4wheeling, skiing and camping.

Ditch the 2F first! :flipoff2: V-8!

Why do you NEED more than 90* approach & departure? Gonna climb the walls at school?

I second the SOA.

An soa can be done for not much more than time, $20 in perches, shocks and a traction bar. Quick math says easilly under $500- porbably less. Can you even buy the airbags for that-not to mention all of the associated costs in materials like high5 said.

I say SOA. There is nothing wrong with an injected 2F, but if you are running 37's and 4:10's, you may be a little dissapointed on your dail drive.

Another reason in my mind against the SOA is that I would have to buy the springs ( right now I have 2.5in stiffies ) and I would need to buy link materials for the rear anyway. Someone with 1/4elip speak up!

and where would you get the springs for a 1/4 eliptic?

stock FJ springs are cheep.

Why don't you order some mermaids and a unicorn or two while you're at it? :flipoff2:

Just kidding! It seems to me that the requirements you list are close to impossible. You want a daily driver with fantastic offroad performance, yet you want it to be close to free? You're considering 1/4 elliptical and/or airbag suspension, but you don't want to fork up the $20 you'll need to buy a set of worn-out stock FJ40 springs? C'mon, man, be realistic, there are a ton of people on this list that have very capable trucks, but they've had to spend money to get there. I'm not saying you can't do a nice SOA on a budget (you can), but if you're questioning the expense of a set of old springs, you might as well scratch the other options, ain't no way you're putting together a reliable airbag setup for under the cost of a SOA.

I always chuckle when I see posts about aspirations to have a reliable daily driver with superb off-road capabilities. Again, not that it's impossible, but considering that improvements at one end usually come at the expense of the other (i.e. a better trail rig usually sacrifices daily-drivability, and vice-versa), there aren't many ways of doing this without spending good cash.

Ultimately, I think a well-designed and well-executed SOA axle conversion with worn stock springs, some kind of axle-wrap control device, and mildly aggressive tires (BFG MT's, G MT/R's) will get you want you want.

Jason Harsch in McKinney, TX has such a beast, an FJ40 that is very capable off-road and yet is a blast to drive on the road. Butch Baker (Texican), Medusa (Jack Rice), Butch Lewis, Adam Tolman, to name a few....

Trust me, I've been trying to find a compromise between daily drivability and good offroad capabilities for more than 10 years, and I for one have never come across the right combination. What's more, I've spent more than even I want to know....

1/4elip springs can come from the junkyard, you don't have to buy avalanche springs for them to work.

1/4elip is a great suspension, it flexes way better than soa :flipoff2: , what I am really looking for is does anyone have experience driving a 1/4elip FRONT on the street, I dont want to build it and then not be able to drive it because of excessive body roll. Y'all may love your soa suspension but that is just not what I want.

You guys are the same people that said I couldn't find a good cruiser for less than 4 or 5 thousand dollars, well guess what?, I was patient and methodical and I got a 77 fj40 with an aluminum tub, 2.5in lift, 33in M/T, a Warn 8274 winch, a full rollcage and brush bar, 122,000 miles and the engine doesn't leak a drop of oil! I paid 2,100 dollars! So I don't want to hear your pessimism!

Springs are the junkyard are cheap, whether stockers for the FJ40 or F350's or whatever. Links, properly done, are not. QA-1 heim joints are $25 each for 5/8" (XML or XMR 10's - just picked up 2 for steering last night) and their 3/4" joints are ~$40 each. Lets see....you need 8 in the rear and 8 in the front to properly setup JUST the links, that's 16 x $40 each = $640 -- and you haven't made the arms yet. You can buy cheaper joints, but they turn into a yearly expense then, rather than one big up front purchase. You can buy cheap joints...remind me to NOT be on the road when you are. I would never buy a joint other than QA-1 - period.

You are likely considering 30" length arms for the suspension, trangulated front and rear. (any longer in a FJ40 is unrealistic - I'm playing with ideas myself now) Unfortunately, proper triangulation requires spacing, specially when you account for a motor in front. Not impossible, but adding enough built-in height to allow for some compression in front means either a high-mount motor or some monster tires, all of which effect your roadability.

It's not pessimism, it's realism. Developing "unlimited" travel will create a highly unsafe road vehicle without building in something that allows you to alter it's suspension performance from road to trail.

In short, if you think you can do it cheap, go for it. It's your truck and your money. If it were mine, I'd keep a simple SOA in front and do the 1/4 in the rear. I get 14" of stroke on my front shocks and feel that's sufficient. Rear is up for improvement, and 1/4 is one of many I'm exploring right now.

Additonally, developing a 1/4 ellip front suspension system is going to require steering....if you really want the travel, standard old link steering will bind up with the travel. That leaves you with full hydro, which can be done, but is NOT a DOT approved steering, making your truck illegal to drive on the street. Additionally, it's drivability is questionable unless you spend a fair amount on a quality double ram and a return-to-center valve which also allows for power when the motor is off. None of these are cheap.

Originally posted by missingmy84toy
I need to find a solution to my epidemic:
1. My suspension needs to be as close to free as possible
2. I want it to be super flexy yet still dd



You have a rash or something? Is there a virus going around your neck of the woods? Is that why you have an epidemic?

Answer to question 1):

free/close to free is easy - you just need the patience and resourcefulness you had in finding your rig in the first place, and be prepared to invest some hours putting it all together. I applaud you for your ambitions.

Answer to question 2):

90% approach and departure, super flexy - sounds like 1/4 eliptical to me. But forget about it as a daily driver (or does dd mean really big boobs? - 'cos you'll have some really big boobs if you drive a full 1/4 eliptical rig on the street). The answer as you have already been told is to go SOA. Dont take our word for it - go pose your epidemic (dilema, I think you mean) on the General section of the BB - you will get some, er, interesting answers.

Good luck!

PS Keep us posted on your findings - we love to be proven wrong!

Originally posted by KrustyKruiser


Dont take our word for it - go pose your epidemic (dilema, I think you mean) on the General section of the BB - you will get some, er, interesting answers.

Good luck!

PS Keep us posted on your findings - we love to be proven wrong!

I seriously doubt those answers are going to be the one you're hoping to get;) You've been given some great advice here by people who know what they're talking about, take it;)

Ok, you asked for input from someone with experience with 1/4 elliptical suspensions. I have a little, so I reckon that gives me the chance to add my opinion. I strongly agree with everything that has been said above. Basically you are asking too much from a single rig, especially if the modifications are to be done on a limited budget. The best compromise in terms of cost, manners on the highway and respectable off-road performance is SOA. PERIOD, END OF STORY!

Let me address some of the specific issues you have raised with respect to a 1/4 elliptical suspension. First of all, a rear 1/4 suspension is pretty straightforward to design and build (but the devil is in the details). Since you state that the suspension must be done for almost no cost, I am assuming that you have fabrication and extensive welding experience. If not, I don't see how you will get any suspension that falls within the budgetary constraints. A front 1/4 elliptical is much more complicated, and in my opinion not worth it compared to a SOA with long springs. I would not consider myself capable of designing and building a front 1/4 elliptical suspension that was going to be driven extensively on the highway (I simply don't trust my own knowedge and skills to do a front 1/4).

Sure, springs for a 1/4 elliptical can be found a a junk yard, but ones that will work well will not be cheap. I am using late-model F350 springs on my rear 1/4 suspension, and the salvage yard price for those is about 5 times that of an FJ40 spring.

Finally, let me point out that increased suspension flex always costs more in terms of the little items that are often ignored in price estimates. For example, with all of the movement afforded by a 1/4 rear suspension, you will need long-travel shocks, and if you are truly trying to maximixe both on- and off-road performance they will need to be adjustable units like RS9012 (Ka-ching!). Also you will need to have long-slip driveshafts, although your proposed drive train is not going to leave much room for any sort of rear driveshaft.

1/4 eliptic front is a great idea on paper but doesn't work that well on the trail I/E trying to push a cruiser with a heavy ass 2f in the front and a suspension that is trying to push the truck backwards does not work you would be much happier following the good advice here with a soa front, and possibly 1/4 rear but don't expect it to be cheap a good joint cost 30 - 35 $ and good 2.50 wall DOM is at least 6 $ a foot + springs + shocks but good luck :flipoff2:

I have a question...say you found a set of bronco front springs in the junkyard, wouldn't it be somewhat feasable to make a coil front that would be fairly flexy, have decent on road handling, and still be within range of "stock" steering? That would give more of an approach angle than leaf springs, and probably cost about the same as a 1/4 front, wouldn't it?

Originally posted by TheDragoneater
I have a question...say you found a set of bronco front springs in the junkyard, wouldn't it be somewhat feasable to make a coil front that would be fairly flexy, have decent on road handling, and still be within range of "stock" steering? That would give more of an approach angle than leaf springs, and probably cost about the same as a 1/4 front, wouldn't it?

Have you ever actually seen a Bronco front end flex???? My cruiser does a lot better with a simple SO than an EB does with "long travel" springs...

If you designed a three link or a 4 link (or even a 5 link) for the front you would be fine. If it was designed well.
Hell aren't you talking about what a TJ has???

Originally posted by TheDragoneater
I have a question...say you found a set of bronco front springs in the junkyard, wouldn't it be somewhat feasable to make a coil front that would be fairly flexy, have decent on road handling, and still be within range of "stock" steering? That would give more of an approach angle than leaf springs, and probably cost about the same as a 1/4 front, wouldn't it?
Yup - I have seen an FJ45 with EB front suspension (including axle). Approach angle would be better than SOA, and possibly more flex than SOA (but SOA can be made very flexy). But, my guess would be the cost of acquiring the complete front end from an EB would be too spendy - based upon the criteria indicated above. Nice try, though :idea:

Bronco's use D44's or D30's..
I could get one cheap if I thought it was a good idea..
Or it would be simple enough to make one..
Plus there is the drivers side drop thing...

Simple three link. two long travel arms and a panhard rod...

My buddy with his bronco still looks at my cruisers flex in the front with admiration....

Okie, well, that answered the flex question...not like it matters much, I live in AK, and up here the perfect rig is roughly a 966 Cat...Not much flex on those!

NOT SURE IF YOUR STILL READING THIS CAUSE YOUR NOT REPLYING, BUT THINGS ARE GONNA ADD UP. ALOT OF GUYS SAY YOU CAN DO A SOA FOR NOT TOO MUCH, BUT YOU FIND IF YOU WANT TO DO THINGS "RIGHT" EVERYTHING ADDS UP. IN MY CASE, DRIVESHAFTS, BRAKE LINES, HARD LINES, FITTINGS, CUTTING DISCS, GRINDING DISKS, GRADE 8 BOLTS, BUSHINGS....
IT JUST GOES ON AND ON AND THOSE LITTLE THINGS ADD UP AFTER AWHILE.

P.S. FROM WHAT I HEAR, YOU'VE GOTTA BE HIGH TO PLAN ON RUNNING KRAWLERS ON A DD 5 DAYS A WEEK TO SCHOOL, YOU'LL BE BUYING A NEW SET IN HALF A YEAR, WAY TO SOFT.

MATT :skull:

The bronco radius arm suspension can be made to flex like mad! Scott @ rockstomper gets gobs of travel out of his wristed radius arm suspension. I asked him about this and he directed me toradius arm suspension (http://www.rockstomper.com/images/products/custom/shopjunk/hybrid/)

Thanks for the suggestion about coils, that could be inexpensive and stable on the road, I will think about that some more. Good positive thinking, thats why this board rocks.