: Help!!! My 302 isnt running right lol
Gaslessyota 11-01-2009, 04:58 PM Hey so I have been working on swapping a 302 into my 1995 ford ranger.
Originally had a 2.3L and it decided it didnt like the #2 con rod so it parted with it at 70mph.
Anyways I bought a 1988 Lincoln Town car for $400 and drove it an hour home and it ran 110%, had lots of power and only had 91K on it.
It has the AOD (all mechanical) and wile yes I know its not a GT-40 from an exploder, it was cheap and available and my ranger needed a new engine and I shure as hell wasnt putting another POS 2.3L in it.
So Its almost all done but it doesnt seem to run quite right, it has a rough idle to it and is lacking power big time.
BTW I am still using the 2.3L in tank fuel pump, and it has 170K on it so I am thinking it might be that but I am not shure.
I put an exploder front cover on the engine along with harmonic balancer and accessory mounts.
So I have no real way to accurately set the timing but i got it close to where it was when the engine was installed in the Lincoln.
It really seems like a fuel problem (or lack there of) but I am at a loss and need some help.
Its OBDI so not much help from the computer and I checked all the sensors and they all checked out.
It currently just has exhaust manifolds on it but I am putting a muffler on it this week.
Any help would be appreciated, thanks.
recoiljunky 11-01-2009, 05:28 PM I've got a timing pointer on my Explorer timing cover. I don't remember where I bought it, but I do remember googling for it. Something like "explorer crank position sensor timing pointer". Or you could make your own with a coat hanger. It mounts on the passenger side of the cover.
Greggk 11-01-2009, 06:17 PM agreed find a timing gun and REPLACE THAT FUEL PUMP!
Cucamongan 11-01-2009, 06:28 PM how are the vacuum lines?
cslimfu 11-01-2009, 06:31 PM agreed find a timing gun and REPLACE THAT FUEL PUMP!
x2! also, change out the fuel filter. you may need to replace all the fuel lines with bigger ones, not too sure on that though.
FORDTECHGURU 11-01-2009, 09:08 PM sooo, just manifolds.... wheres the o2 sensor mounted... did you wire it in (heater power from key) i doubt it's a fuel problem with the stock pump, but i'm kinda new to this :flipoff2:
FORDTECHGURU 11-01-2009, 09:10 PM btw, did the power steering line work out?
Gaslessyota 11-02-2009, 08:04 AM Well I ended up getting another town car P/S line (3/8" on one end, 5/16" on the other) and had the truck parts place splice that onto the exploder hose, I will post up some pics later but it works perfectly and its all high pressure crimped fittings.
It doesnt have o2 sensors yet but those shouldnt come into play untill its reached operating temp correct??
It runs crappy the second I start it and has no power if I try driving it.
I replaced the fuel filter and it seemed like it has good pressure but I have a strong feeling that poor tired little 4 banger pump cant give the thirsty 302 enough fuel.
And being that its running with no o2 sensors it should be running quite rich and thats prob not helping either.
I will get some pics for you tho and maybe they will help lol.
Gaslessyota 11-02-2009, 09:00 AM http://i637.photobucket.com/albums/uu91/DieselHilux/Mobile%20Uploads/Image038.jpg
http://i637.photobucket.com/albums/uu91/DieselHilux/Mobile%20Uploads/Image023.jpg
http://i637.photobucket.com/albums/uu91/DieselHilux/Mobile%20Uploads/Image036.jpg
http://i637.photobucket.com/albums/uu91/DieselHilux/Mobile%20Uploads/Image037.jpg
Gaslessyota 11-02-2009, 09:25 AM It has 32psig when its idling
FORDTECHGURU 11-02-2009, 12:29 PM did you change the plug wires? firing order is correct? fuel press is fine... check for vacuum leaks...
Gaslessyota 11-02-2009, 12:41 PM Brand new plug wires, firing order is correct, I replaced ALL the vacuum lines with brand new ones.
Brand new plugs also, and again its not missing or anything, just seems like it should have more power and has a rough idle and wouldnt idle at all before I re-adjusted the idle.
But it never had any problems when it was in the lincoln, it had a silky smooth idle, good power, no codes, ran great.
It idles like a engine with a big cam in it but it doesnt have a big cam (or any mods for that matter)
rock-rod 11-02-2009, 12:48 PM That's a speed density motor. do you have the MAP sensor hooked up correctly? also, what's the fuel pressure showing at the rail? s/b about 40psi with no vacuum to the regulator and about 35 with the vacuum hooked up. the ff/p should also go up when you try to accelerate, and go down when you coast. if it drops when you gas it, then the motor is not getting the correct fuel pressure and it will not run well.
FORDTECHGURU 11-02-2009, 03:24 PM what do you mean "readjusted the idle," there is nothing you should be adjusting, betting a ground isn't connected somewhere...
Gaslessyota 11-02-2009, 03:41 PM I had to adjust the manual idle screw cause the engine wouldnt run otherwise. When its first started you can hear the IAC open and the engine idles up but then it drops back down and would actually stall if I hadnt adjusted the screw.
I made sure the grounds were connected, it goes from the Batt to the block, then from the block to the rad support.
The fuel pressure acts exactly as rock-rod described it, rev the engine and it increases, it gets higher with the vacuum line to the F/P reg. disconnected, ect.
The MAP sensor is correctly hooked up as far as I can tell.
FORDTECHGURU 11-02-2009, 10:26 PM no, i mean the pcm grounds, obviously it runs but there are several grounds that need to be there, it's not the fuel pressure, so quit checking it. try this, turn the key on, check the wiring at the tps sensor (leaving it plugged in) one will be 5v, one will be ground, and the one in the center should be like .8-.9vdc.... if you get 5v on the center wire in the connector, you have no sensor ground, check and advise..... also put the "idle" screw back where it was.
FORDTECHGURU 11-02-2009, 10:44 PM it looks like you have two power grounds, one case ground and one hego ground, probably the case ground black w/green stripe, maybe near pcm connector, the hego ground says it's orange. can't tell you where exactly these are without a ford evtm but if you removed the engine and wiring recently maybe this will ring a bell..
Gaslessyota 11-03-2009, 08:59 AM Hey I measured everything and here is what I got:
Ignition On, Engine Off
TPS:
Orange-5VDC
Green-1.196VDC
Black-32 Ohms to batt ground
MAP:
Orange-5VDC
Green/Black-2.45VDC
31.7 Ohms to ground
On the ECM I got 16.5 Ohms to Batt ground
On the ECT sensor I got 70K ohms on the signal line with the engine cold and it had been sitting all night and it got pretty cold.
Again there are no O2 sensors currently but I dont think that should affect it untill its warmed up.
On a side note the damn thing wont idle, it I back off the manual idle screw it just dies unless you give it throttle and it never did that in the lincoln.
Also if you give the throttle a quick snap it dies as though it cant catch its self before it dies.
FORDTECHGURU 11-03-2009, 11:15 AM ground resistance needs to be measured with key off, circuit disconnected... the ground values given are terrible, remeasure as above and report, also take pic of harness near pcm connector. check the voltage w/key on at the self test connector black wire w/white stripe.
Gaslessyota 11-03-2009, 12:35 PM Ok so this time I measured everything with the batt disconnected (pics to follow) and the Neg wire of the multi-meter attached to the neg batt cable and the positive multi meter wire connected to the various grounds I was checking:
The ECM power ground pins (2 of them) both showed .2 ohms to ground
The MAP showed .3 ohms to ground
The ECT Sensor showed .1 ohms to ground
The TPS showed .1 ohms to ground
Then I checked each sensor's sig output wire to the respective ECM's pin for that sensors wire.
They all were within .1-.3 ohms
I also checked the ECT sensor and it was reading 12.82K ohms and the engine is cold and hadnt been run yet today.
I will check the intake manifold for leaks in a little bit.
Oh and the case ground as well as the ignition harness shield are grounded to one of the two studs that hold the PCM into the firewall and have .1 ohms to batt neg cable.
This is starting to sound like a vacuum leak to me and my dad and a few other people that I have talked to but I will not rule out an electronic problem.
BTW I did have the upper and lower intake apart but I installed a brand new gasket when I put them back together.
Gaslessyota 11-03-2009, 12:37 PM Hey you guys think it would just be easier to get a damn CFI (throttle body injection) manifold and computer and just run that instead???
Gaslessyota 11-03-2009, 12:45 PM I sprayed the intake and vacuum lines and could not find any leaks and I do not hear the tell tale hiss of a leak either so I am at a loss.
FORDTECHGURU 11-03-2009, 03:48 PM hold the phone, did you use the original map sensor from the town car? your map reading koeo is waaaaayyyy off. koeo map voltage for a 1988 town car at sea level is 1.59 vdc, 1000ft 1.56vdc. sorry to run you through the ground problem, just seen it lots w/engine swaps and i don't know you. looks like they are fine, did you use the baro sensor from the ranger?
2.45 vdc on a map would be like at the bottom of the ocean...
Gaslessyota 11-03-2009, 04:19 PM Hey yea I am at sea level, I live on LI in NY and its like 60 ft above sea level lol.
Yea I am very good with grounds, I am a mechanic and have seen first hand what happens when a computer gets a bad ground.
That is the original Lincoln Town car MAP sensor but it did sit in the bed of the truck in the rain for a wile cause I forgot about it lol.
You think the MAP is bad?? I can go and get another one if that is the problem.
I just hate trouble shooting electronics, I am a diesel guy but this truck is really my dads and I am fixing it for him as I was the one that blew up the 4 pooper lol.
I convinced him that a 302 would be a sweet swap and he agreed and we went and got the town car cause it was a good deal and being that I got the entire car I could make shure it ran and drove and I would have all the little things that really add up/
I wish I would have gotten a GT-40 from an exploder (Mass Air and DIS and OBDII) But you cant always get what you want.
Gaslessyota 11-03-2009, 05:01 PM Hey checked it again, Ignition on Engine Off and I got 2.59VDC at the MAP sensor and 5 VDC at the other line and ground on the ground one.
FORDTECHGURU 11-04-2009, 09:34 AM the numbers i gave above are directly out of a 1988 ford pc/ed manual, i actually found one upstairs (go figure), the values you are getting are out of range, the sensor is bad.
the ect sensor read o.k.
the tp is high, unless you readjusted it, .8-.9vdc should be fine.
the reading the map was giving you would make it run rich as hell, i think it makes sense now, the sensors on the engine are fine, the map sensor took a dump
Gaslessyota 11-04-2009, 01:08 PM That makes sense, it was afterfiring and it the exhaust smelled REALLY rich so I will try and replace it and try it and let you know what happens.
Gaslessyota 11-20-2009, 02:28 PM I Re-wired the engine and wired up the 2 oxygen sensors and the damn thing still doesnt run right!!!!
It has NO power, afterfires, and just doesnt run correctly.
It also will not idle, and is difficult to start.
This damn truck is pissing me off!!!
I did a KOER test and came up with the following codes:
12, 16, 13
KOEO Test:
31, 81, 82, 84, 85
Gaslessyota 11-21-2009, 04:32 PM Hey I got it running perfect, I had the incorrect firing order (DAMN ALLDATA!!!)
I went on google and found the proper way to route the wires, and the correct firing order and it now runs awesome.
I also replaced the fuel pump with a 1988 lincoln towncar pump and it dwarfs the shitty ranger pump that came out of it.
http://i637.photobucket.com/albums/uu91/DieselHilux/Mobile%20Uploads/Image017-1.jpg
http://i637.photobucket.com/albums/uu91/DieselHilux/Mobile%20Uploads/Image018-1.jpg
FORDTECHGURU 11-22-2009, 12:56 PM HATE IT WHEN THAT HAPPENS :emb2: , glad you got it sorted out...
i think a burnout is in order...
Gaslessyota 11-23-2009, 01:10 PM Yea I'll get some pics of a burnout, I bought brand new tires for it not too long ago but I still have the old ones on the old shitty wheels (upgraded those too) so its just a simple bolt on to swap tires and light um up!!
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