Unimog Axles or Hybrids?

[EUROTRUCK]

I started a new thread because we were muddying the waters around USA6X6's buildup.

Concerning axles, I personally took the path of least resistance and just built up a Unimog. I happen to like the Unimog and it's design, but I also know that it's not the do all/end all of off-road machines. I'm very happy with it though.

Here begins the Unimog axle dialogue that will revolutionize off-roading as we know it. Not!

Originally posted by Wolfgang
The Chevy at the TTC with MOG axles run a 472 Caddy motor (300HP) 44" Swamper and also no problems with the axles.
I run my truck (chevy pick up) with a 6.2 Diesel 42" Swampers and Mog axles with no problem so far. My previous truck (CJ5) had cast axles (421). I had a lot problems with the pinion bearing and the upper (ball?) joint (bronce bushing!!)
The 404 has 3 pinion bearings instead of 2 on the cast axles.



Hi Daniel T., it seems as though you prefer 404 axles because of their construction. The price doesn't hurt either. :p The 3 pinion bearings are great for longevity and higher speed applications, but doesn't the increased length of the 3rd member make it more difficult to use stock 404 axles in a short wheelbase rig? A definite plus for the 404 axle is the mechanically activated locker. No air system to cause problems on the trail.

I have seen both a TJ from Poland and your friend Eggeman's FJ40 from Germany running the cast axles. Has Eggeman had any problems from his 406 axles? Did you put smaller rotors on the outers so that he could run smaller rims?

So it seems that for cost, funtionality and quality, the 404 axle is the way to go if you want to use the whole UNIMOG Axle in your rig.


Originally posted by Wolfgang
The TTC was won by a bronco with Mog9"axles, a 426 Ford motor (430HP) 42"Swamper without a axle problem.



That brings me to my next round of questions.

I'm assuming that the lure of using Mog hybrid axles is due to space considerations and of course the plethora of diff. ratios available? JR and 6X6 Daniel, please shed some light on your thought processes once again if you don't mind.

Knowing that many people will be building hybrids in the future, do you recommend using 404 or 406/416 outers and why? Hellical cut gears vs. straight cut gears? Conventional wisdom says that the straight cut gears are stronger, but it seems that it would take a lot more modification to use a 406/416 portal on a 9" center and is the gain in strength really worth the effort?

I want to know what's the best variation of a Unimog/hybrid axle for most off-roaders and why? I'm not trying to be a PITA. I just want to kick around a few thoughts and ideas for the benefit of us all. This niche is growing rapidly and there are many great ideas floating around. Let's hear from everyone!

EuroTruck

[Wolfgang]

Hi Euro... I also love UNIMOGS und grosse Busen!

Yes, we prefer 404´s because of their construction, the weight and the possibility to mount disc brakes. The fly in the soup is indeed the long pinion shaft. You are right, that makes it more difficult to use in a short wheel base rig. But believe me it´s also not easy to put the cast ones under your short whel base rig.
My friend Burkhard (Eggemann) uses, like i did on my CJ 5, the narrow cast iron 421 axles. He runs the axles with stock width with adapter plates to fit the bolt pattern and 15"wheels. The big problem on these axles are the brakes. I can not see an acceptable way to mount disc brakes on these hubs.
Up to now he broke 2 geared hubs due to overheated brakes . He also had some probs with the pinion bearing, like i had.

You´re right, it seems that the 404´s for cost, functionality and quality are the axles to go. That´s my opinion!
The hybrid´s are a good choice where limited space is an issue. Also the variety of ratios is a point to choose the hybrid´s.
But we were working on a 6-1 overall gear ratio for the stock 404´s.

I would say that helical gears are stronger than strait cut gears, but they produces more heat. Heat is no problem if you use the disc brake conversion. The hubs are running a lot cooler!!
I don´t like to discuss which one is stronger. I know for sure, that 404´s are very strong for the most applications and a lot cheaper and lighter and easier to get.
We sell all the parts to build a good a reliable portal axle as well as good used axles. If you like we try to find a 421, 406 or U1300 for you but for the most applications the 404 axle will be the best choice.
I try to go to the supercrawl in Farmington and display some MOG axle parts.:rolleyes:

[tj7]

hey euro, i called ya last weekend about the dude with the tj from poland.i couldnt find any way to get in touch with him:confused: but i would luv to know what he did about the rear fitting in with the size of the driveshafts and if he had them cut down to fit ...(front and rear) if i can find a way to fit them in and change out the gears to something more feasable to drive daily i would be all over them...

any help daniel?also i wrote ya tons of emails and have not heard back from ya....

[EUROTRUCK]

Originally posted by tj7
hey euro, i called ya last weekend about the dude with the tj from poland.



Even if you did get in touch with him, there's no guarantee that he speaks Ingles.

They look like the narrow cut 421 axles that Wolfgang was mentioning earlier. See for yourself and is that an Atlas I see up between the rails? That driveshaft looks awfully thick too.

http://www.teamunimog.com/pics/05090010_1024x768.jpg

It is a very nice TJ and they put lots of $$$$ into it. I wish I had paid closer attention to everyones rigs but I had other things on my mind at the time. Hey, at least we got the photos.

http://www.teamunimog.com/pics/05090008_1024x768.jpg
http://www.teamunimog.com/pics/05090011_768x1024.jpg
http://www.teamunimog.com/pics/05090043_1024x768.jpg
http://www.teamunimog.com/pics/05090045_1024x768.jpg

The same mog axled FJ in a river crossing. Damn that's deep and they forgot the paddles!
FJ under water (http://www.jeep-power.com/photos/croatia2002/israel/Seiten/isra%20(122)_jpg.htm)
See the tire sticking out of the water to the left? That's a capsized and overturned Sammy. Believe it or not, they drove the Sammy back to camp three hours later and had fish for dinner.:flipoff2:

EuroTruck

[tj7]

hahahahhaah! i know dude i am drooling here ...i want those in my tj-7....ahhh well i guess ill just have to settle for my 60's unless my bot wolfy can figure out what the did....it doesnt look stretched at all...

[unissamog]

Originally posted by Daniel
will someone explain these axles?

What do you want explained?? They are the non 404 type. They have a bolted together housing.

[unimogken]

Those are the diesel style axles. You'll find those on 406 and 416 models. Maybe others also... my interest stops at the 416 models cause theres no way in hell I can afford the bigger rigs yet.

Daniel check your PMs, I sent you a link about a week ago with a rolling chassis for sale with those axles on it.

Later.

Ken S.

[Wolfgang]

These are 421 axles!! 406´s are wider.

www.killeraxles.com

[Jare]

Originally posted by Daniel
will someone explain these axles?

Well these are the axles that we call cast type here in Finland. Name comes from the axle tubes and center that are made of cast steel/iron.

Jare

[unimogken]

Ahhh yes the good old 421...heheh I know where to find a set of those attached to a fixer upper/donor. PM me if someones interested.

Later.

Ken S.

[orangefj45]

grosse busen are allways a bonus!:D
take it from a guy who's married to some.

[tj7]

hell ya i want those 421's under my heep .lets talk are they the same dimensions as 404's both front and rear are off centered.
who even knows please let me know i wont even waste my time slapping in my 1 ton's....

[Wolfgang]

TJ7 check your PM

The 421´s are also off-centered front and rear like all Mog axles.
They are narrow, to fit under a Jeep, but you have to stay with the drum brakes. It´s easy to build an adapter plate for 5-lug or 6-lug bolt pattern. If you use a 1" plate, the 15" rim fit the drum perfect. It does not look like, but the pinion is only 2,5" shorter than the 404 pinion. That is not too much.

421 axle
pro: narrow, shorter pinion, strong (but really not much stronger than 404´s)

con:very heavy, hard to get, more expencive also the parts, no disc brake and 8-lug possible(?), Pinion conversion hard to make (1 pinion bearing is in the torque tube), weaker pinion (only 2 bearings instead of 3 on the 404)

404 axle
pro: light, easy to get, easy to get parts, conversion parts like axle shafts, drive shaft conversion, brake conversion, 8 lug conversion are easy to get. More than strong enough for most applications. Most used axles are in better condition than cast axles. Easy to make a hybrid axle. Soon are also a differnent ratio available(6-1). CTIS available.

con: long pinion shaft, maybe slightly weaker (i don´t believe it)
:confused:

The last 7 years, i used the cast iron Mog axles. But now i am really happy with the 404´s. There are more pro´s than con´s.

www.killeraxles.com

[road1will]

personally i like the 9" hybrid because of its adaptability and the options it provides. IE lockers, gear ratios, etc. plus i think that it is more effective in a light truck because of the short pinion.

[cruiserrg]

I personally am going to use complete MOG axles in my tube chassis buildup. I am getting them with 7" taken off the short side front to clear the engine better, and 7" off the long side rear to center the pinion. I will probably make the length back up with dics conversion hubs. This give me the benefit of only 2 custom axles, and the use of the stock lockers. Since I am building a custom tube chassis with a 110 wb I can deal with the long better. This is probably the easiest way to go as you can get the cut down housings easily.

JMHO

[Wolfgang]

Cruiserrg
Thats the easiest way to go. See my homepage, i did exactly the same on my Pick Up. More offset on the front axle and the rear is in center.

www.killeraxles.com

[cruiserrg]

Originally posted by Daniel
Rueben you can get that whole axle complete from Taradon for @ 1800 per axle:)

Yep, Don is a great guy to work with. My MOG stuff hopefully will show up by the end of Oct. They'll get shipped once I get the parts Don wanted from me out to BC.

P.S. Don the crate is going to the shipper in the morning :D

[jimmyhats]

TJ7 check your PM

The 421´s are also off-centered front and rear like all Mog axles.
They are narrow, to fit under a Jeep, but you have to stay with the drum brakes. It´s easy to build an adapter plate for 5-lug or 6-lug bolt pattern. If you use a 1" plate, the 15" rim fit the drum perfect. It does not look like, but the pinion is only 2,5" shorter than the 404 pinion. That is not too much.

421 axle
pro: narrow, shorter pinion, strong (but really not much stronger than 404´s)

con:very heavy, hard to get, more expencive also the parts, no disc brake and 8-lug possible(?), Pinion conversion hard to make (1 pinion bearing is in the torque tube), weaker pinion (only 2 bearings instead of 3 on the 404)

404 axle
pro: light, easy to get, easy to get parts, conversion parts like axle shafts, drive shaft conversion, brake conversion, 8 lug conversion are easy to get. More than strong enough for most applications. Most used axles are in better condition than cast axles. Easy to make a hybrid axle. Soon are also a differnent ratio available(6-1). CTIS available.

con: long pinion shaft, maybe slightly weaker (i don´t believe it)
:confused:

The last 7 years, i used the cast iron Mog axles. But now i am really happy with the 404´s. There are more pro´s than con´s.

www.killeraxles.com

im looking at a set of 404's for my 86 runner with a 350 v8 possibly? What am i looking at for gearing in this thing ? Where do you get parts for these axles?

[4Mogger]

im looking at a set of 404's for my 86 runner with a 350 v8 possibly? What am i looking at for gearing in this thing ? Where do you get parts for these axles?

You are looking at 7.56:1 final axle ratio. I think a 3.4 Toyota swap would be a better choice than the 350 especially considering the gearing. The 3.4 would LOVE that gearing with about 40 to 42 inch tires.
Exaxt is another great source for the highest quality parts AND great service.
http://www.exaxt.ca/

[unimogken]

Wow, someone pulled up a 5 year old thread!

[ryeguy]

421 axle
pro: narrow, shorter pinion, strong (but really not much stronger than 404´s)

con:very heavy, hard to get, more expencive also the parts, no disc brake and 8-lug possible(?), Pinion conversion hard to make (1 pinion bearing is in the torque tube), weaker pinion (only 2 bearings instead of 3 on the 404)


Mostly I agree with you, but we've had a disk brake conversion for these axles for years now.

The 404's under my Blazer (mentioned in the 1st post) held up just fine. But when I sold the truck to a local, and he jumped it with 6 FEET of air under the front tires, things started to fail. Everything has its limits, and he found them! But yeah, for MOST people, the 404's are strong enough.

--Rob
www.exaxt.ca

[Wolfgang]

thread is 5 years old now. We offer the disc brake conversion (8 lug)for 411, 421 and 406 since 2003.

www.killeraxles.com

[jstarnes]

thread is 5 years old now. We offer the disc brake conversion (8 lug)for 411, 421 and 406 since 2003.

www.killeraxles.com

you also need a yellow star to pimp your shit