I'm building a 30x40 with 14' walls. I'm still in the deciding factor. NOW MONEY ASIDE which would you do first, and why?

My options are get the area leveled and gravel down, then pour concrete.

Or level, gravel wait and let it settle for a few months, put the shop up, then pour concrete.

AGAIN, MONEY NOT A FACTOR, which would you do and why?

My thoughts are with the gravel settling it will help prevent the slab from cracking later. But I also have to make sure my building builders are on task with making sure the building is set high enough for clearances. And then the doors would have to be hung after the concrete is done.

So do I do concrete before to give the builders a solid platform to work with, and the clearances and doors will be the right height?

Or wait, let the ground settle, put up the building and fill in later?

I think it is safe to say that you could go either way. It is common to go either way. If you know what type of building you are planning on building, maybe ask the builder to see if they have a recommendation.

With proper compaction there is absolutely no need to let the ground settle. It will save alot of work to pour the slab and footings at the same time and then erect the building.

x2 on proper compaction as well as a compacted gravel base before you pour the concrete.

Yeah, they would compact it, but I'm just being overly cautious. I don't want to have to deal with cracks later.

It's a pole barn building.

funny you should ask this. I'm sitting here looking out the window as hurricane Ida drives rain down like a cow pissin on a flat rock. I've actually thought about this in the past... A lot. Every time I get ready to pour concrete it rains. And rains. And rains some damned more.

I'd put the building up now, then pour the concrete later, for LOTS of good reasons.

1) gives you a secure/dry space NOW to store stuff (building materials, etc.).
2) allows you to work on other stuff as you get money together for the slab you can get your electrical done, rough in your plumbing, lighting, some HVAC, all out of the weather, so you will have something to do when you have shitty weather this winter.
3) When you DO pour the slab you won't be limited by the weather and you don't have to give a rat's ass about weather it rains within XX hours of when you pour.
4) This could also get you a better price as you'll be able to contract it with a contractor who would normally be sitting on his ass when it's raining. I am getting ready to pour a slab right now and this saved me some money, cause it's covered and I told the guy to schedule for a day when it's raining.
5) with a pole building, you don't HAVE to pour the whole slab at one time. You can section it and do it as you can afford it. Maybe do one small section for your tool-boxes, etc then park on the gravel. Heck I know a guy who has had half his building in gravel for years, it's where he parks all his leakers/muddy junk so he doesn't have to worry about messing up the concrete.

I don't want to have to deal with cracks later.

That's a pipe dream. There's two kinds of concrete pads. Those that have cracked and those that will crack.

That's what we cut control joints in for. If compacted correctly the cracks will happen where the joints are.

Since it is a pole building, put up the building first.
If it was all steel, I think they work better on an existing slab.
If the building is up, they can pour concrete any time (almost). And if the building is up, it gives you more time to ponder putting the rigid insulation down and putting the PEX-AL-PEX tubing down for the in floor (hydronic) heat,:).
Also TOTALLY agree with CSP. There is cracked and going to crack.

That's a pipe dream. There's two kinds of concrete pads. Those that have cracked and those that will crack.

That's what we cut control joints in for. If compacted correctly the cracks will happen where the joints are.
we have a 2 car garage with a 15ft long section added on the back. the 2car part if it has been up since we bought the house 23 years ago. the back boom was added maby 15 years ago. none have cracks, there are also the weight of about 7 milling machines and the such sitting on the 2 car portion.

my shop is 30x50 pole barn style.we built it and ran a 2x6 around the outside and poured after,it's 5.5'' thick 3500psi with fiber.we split it into 4 sections with key joints and it's been 5 years and no cracks.could be the 5.5'' but joints are the key,mine are so flush that you don't even feel them with anything on wheels

The last pole barn I helped build we started with a level sand pad, we then set poles, hung the headers, set trusses, sheeted and shingled the roof, at this point we had basically a carport style structure, we then had the floor poured and we finished framing out the doors and put up the steel siding. Doing it this way made it very easy for the concrete guys and made it easy to get door height perfect.

I helped build a steel building a few years ago and we tried doing it the same way, we poured piers for the columns and planned on doing the floor later, this turned into a total mess, if I ever do another steel building it will have the floor completely done before I start.

The last pole barn I helped build we started with a level sand pad, we then set poles, hung the headers, set trusses, sheeted and shingled the roof, at this point we had basically a carport style structure, we then had the floor poured and we finished framing out the doors and put up the steel siding. Doing it this way made it very easy for the concrete guys and made it easy to get door height perfect.

Sounds similar to how I did mine, no roof sheeting though.
http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/8504/cimg0865jh9.jpg

I put up the shop first then poured concrete. 6" of fibermesh cut in 10' x 10' sections. it's been up for 10 years and only one small crack next to a post. It was built on a very stable gravel base.

1) gives you a secure/dry space NOW to store stuff (building materials, etc.).
2) allows you to work on other stuff as you get money together for the slab you can get your electrical done, rough in your plumbing, lighting, some HVAC, all out of the weather, so you will have something to do when you have shitty weather this winter.
3) When you DO pour the slab you won't be limited by the weather and you don't have to give a rat's ass about weather it rains within XX hours of when you pour.
4) This could also get you a better price as you'll be able to contract it with a contractor who would normally be sitting on his ass when it's raining. I am getting ready to pour a slab right now and this saved me some money, cause it's covered and I told the guy to schedule for a day when it's raining.
5) with a pole building...

Yep, did the building first and then the slab pretty much for the first four reasons (pole building didn't apply to me) and also that not only do you not have to worry about rain, but you also can keep it out of the sun and not worry about it curing too fast.

Sounds similar to how I did mine, no roof sheeting though.
http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/8504/cimg0865jh9.jpg

We were fighting the weather, I would have liked the slab before shingles, roof was a little wobbly with no concrete and no walls.

Never seen the 2xs supporting the siding run like that, was it for ease of finishing the interior? How did it work out?

Never seen the 2xs supporting the siding run like that, was it for ease of finishing the interior? How did it work out?

It's called commercial girts. It gives the walls higher wind (side) load and allowed me to use 6" of rolled insulation and then finish the inside with sheeting.

I've built a few pole barns. Most of them have had the slab poured first and a few have had the poles set before the slab. But the best way is to pour a footing lay a block foundation, and then pour the slab. That will also cut the waste down on your lumber package.

If you pour the slab first, set the poles on some aluminum flashing and anchor them to the slab with something substantial. I've not been happy with the Simpson line of products or any kind of strap for that matter. What I do like is angle iron.

The only time I prefer a post sunk in the ground is for structures that carry a load ie. hay lofts and tobacco barns. And if you do sink them in the ground, make the bottom of the hole twice as large as the pole and pour some concrete in there for a footing.

Sounds similar to how I did mine, no roof sheeting though.
http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/8504/cimg0865jh9.jpg

This looks like what I am thinking about doing to add some cold storage space (IE I don't need to pull a permit for a 24'x36') onto the back of the shop, would you mind posting up some details as to what you used for posts, trusses etc. and spacing?

With a pole barn you sort of have to follow the order. Holes drilled, install posts and horizontal girts, put on trusses, metal it. The first girts are your form boards to pour the floor.

If it is compacted, pour right away. If not compact it. Waiting takes forever and if you put stuff inside you will just have to drag it out to pour the floor. Huge pain.

How about this?

Since I will but putting some load onto the barn itself I'll be tying in some wall hoists and such.

Put up the barn like Jeepdude_Jay, then run some bar through the poles, and then pour concrete. That would help isolate and stiffen the poles and structure, right?

Something else to consider is getiing some Sonotube (Concrete tube forms) and set them in the ground, pour concrete pads, set up your polebarn on top of them, (or in them) then pour the pad later. Ther are lots of commercial buildings built this way.

That's a pipe dream. There's two kinds of concrete pads. Those that have cracked and those that will crack.

That's what we cut control joints in for. If compacted correctly the cracks will happen where the joints are.

My shop was build in 2001. 30x40 5" slab, 300psi w/ fiber, NO rebar, NO joints.

Exactly when should I expect my first crack to show up?

if you put stuff inside you will just have to drag it out to pour the floor. Huge pain.

This would be my #1 reason to do the floor at the time of the shop build... There is no way I want to drag all that stuff back out again to do the floor once the shop starts filling up.

My shop was build in 2001. 30x40 5" slab, 300psi w/ fiber, NO rebar, NO joints.

Exactly when should I expect my first crack to show up?

Don't be an ass.

There is no question the floor will be done before moving in. But that was why I'm trying to figure out the best way to do it.

I'm going to have my concrete guy come out and give me his ideas. And coordinate with the builder to see if they will give me a week between framing the pole barn, and skinning it.

I like the idea of the poles being tied into the concrete for rigidity. But at the same time leaves them prone to rot.

This looks like what I am thinking about doing to add some cold storage space (IE I don't need to pull a permit for a 24'x36') onto the back of the shop, would you mind posting up some details as to what you used for posts, trusses etc. and spacing?

30x48x14 with about 14" eaves all around. Poles along the sides are 4x12 PT in 18"x3' of concrete. End wall poles are 6x6 PT. Side wall poles are every 12'. Trusses are 4/12, single on the ends, double at each inner wall pole. Girts and purlins are 2x6 evert 2'. 16'x13' door.

Don't be an ass.

I'm simply showing how silly his claim is that every pad *will* crack. Some don't, and that is due to proper prep, good workmanship, and the right materials for the right job.

Send me a PM with your address so I can send you a cookie DRM. :rolleyes:

My shop was built in 1980. I have no idea what psi the concrete was, but it didn't have a single crack in the floor when I bought the place in 2001. Now it has a couple after a really cold week a few winters ago.

My "claim" was a generalization. Don't take things too literally or seriously.

I'm simply showing how silly his claim is that every pad *will* crack. Some don't, and that is due to proper prep, good workmanship, and the right materials for the right job.

Wrong...control joints (properly called contraction joints) are put in place to control the cracking that invariably comes from the volume of the concrete changing as it cures...called shrinkage cracks. You can reduce the number and severity of the cracks by ensuring that the concrete is cured quickly and contolling the water in the mix...but you can't prevent them unless you can prevent water from escaping the concrete as it cures.

I'm not saying that all slabs crack, just that a slab cracking is not necesarily any indciation of improper prep, bad workmanship, or the wrong materials for the right job. The fact that your slab has no control joints cut into it, however, might be an indication of all of those things.

Put plastic down under your slab, it makes the moisture in the slab come out the top rather then be absorbed quickly by the ground. This makes the slab cure slowly making it harder and less prone to cracking. This with control joints. My nieghbor did this with his shop in the early 70s, literally laid plastic down on about 10 feet of grass and it still hasn't cracked to this day.:eek:

I'm planning to do my shop just like Jeepdude Jay's pictured above. I know the outside of the post MAY be a little more prone to rot but don't figure it will be much at all being they are PT wood. I also plan if money allows to install I-beam crane or lift that'll have the I beam along the wall and between so I can sling my lift ANYWHERE in the shop...sounds nice anyhow:laughing: So hopefully the poles sunk into the ground filled with concrete will hold any weight I plan on hanging from them.

Jimbo

First off let me say if you are going to put the shop up and pour the concrete before you move any thing in.

i would say put the building up first do the concrete in a few weeks at the most.

Pouring the floor lets say a year later having to move all your stuff 2 or 3 times gets old real fast . even worse if you need to be at work while this happens . Labors have no clue what could be thrown out and what is used on a regular basis.

I am going through this now.:shaking: Brand new mounted tires are now back against the wall with 5 or 6 feet of stuff that to be honest has been left by people who said can I keep this here for a few weeks and becomes forever.

It does not help that I am a pack rat from both sides

My 2 cents