Figure this still belongs in Jeep because the axles ARE going on a Jeep. I am swapping to ford knuckles on my Scout D44 so I can run 30 spline outers, will this make me wider? Or not? And by how much?

bump

Okay, how about if I used CJ7 knuckles and Reemed them out to fit a 30 spline shaft? Eh' eh'? Would work right? How much weaker would these be than Ford knuckles?

Ok, I'm assuming this is going on your current build. Width does not change much at all no matter what outers you go to. My scout 44 front with Chevy outers is like 61". That being said, unless you are running heims in your steering, you cannot use Ford knuckles SUA, the tie rod is under the knuckle, directly in line with the springs, been there, tried that. Chevy's are on top of the knuckle and clear fine. Not sure about the 30 conversion, never tried anything like that, but 30 knuckles are significantly weaker than a chevy 44 knuckle.

Okay, how about if I used CJ7 knuckles and Reemed them out to fit a 30 spline shaft? Eh' eh'? Would work right? How much weaker would these be than Ford knuckles?

Why would you need to make the hole in the knuckle larger for a (I'm assuming an aftermarket) larger diameter outer axleshaft? The axleshaft is still going to be much smaller than the hole that's already there for the ujoint yoke. The outer shaft part doesn't really even go through the knuckle other than the yoke where it attaches to the inner yoke. Unless you switch to a non-existant larger axleshaft ujoint there's no need for a larger hole, so WTF?

Are you sure you're using the right terminology for the parts you're talking about?

Why a 30 spline outer shaft and who makes them? I don't know of any 30 spline lockouts either.

Ok, I'm assuming this is going on your current build. Width does not change much at all no matter what outers you go to. My scout 44 front with Chevy outers is like 61". That being said, unless you are running heims in your steering, you cannot use Ford knuckles SUA, the tie rod is under the knuckle, directly in line with the springs, been there, tried that. Chevy's are on top of the knuckle and clear fine. Not sure about the 30 conversion, never tried anything like that, but 30 knuckles are significantly weaker than a chevy 44 knuckle.

My big thing is running 5 5.5, I guess I could still achieve this with Chevy knuckles right? Because they are all 6 bolt spindles? And thanks for the heads up on Ford Knuckles. And yes it's for the Flatty.

Why would you need to make the hole in the knuckle larger for a (I'm assuming an aftermarket) larger diameter outer axleshaft? The axleshaft is still going to be much smaller than the hole that's already there for the ujoint yoke. The outer shaft part doesn't really even go through the knuckle other than the yoke where it attaches to the inner yoke. Unless you switch to a non-existant larger axleshaft ujoint there's no need for a larger hole, so WTF?

Are you sure you're using the right terminology for the parts you're talking about?

Why a 30 spline outer shaft and who makes them? I don't know of any 30 spline lockouts either.


I was using the wrong terminology, not the knuckle itself but the actuall spindle needs to be bored. And Warn makes 30 spline locking hubs.

I did the same thing.

I swapped chevy knuckles, spindles and calipers onto the housing and used ford wheel hubs and rotors.

You keep your 5 on 5.5 and get the better knuckles with good spindles.

Warn does not make the hub conversions any more. Randy's R&P has procured the equipment and personnel to manufacture those kits. Randy's has been taking their sweet time making everything perfect. They are just now shipping some products. They look the same and maybe somewhat better than the old warn stuff which was really good.

Those conversion kits tend to be VERY expensive for what you are really gaining. Unless you are breaking outers at the locking hub every time you wheel it's not worth all the extra money. Just get some stock size cromo's and you can go to any junkyard for trail spares.

I did the same thing.

I swapped chevy knuckles, spindles and calipers onto the housing and used ford wheel hubs and rotors.

You keep your 5 on 5.5 and get the better knuckles with good spindles.

Warn does not make the hub conversions any more. Randy's R&P has procured the equipment and personnel to manufacture those kits. Randy's has been taking their sweet time making everything perfect. They are just now shipping some products. They look the same and maybe somewhat better than the old warn stuff which was really good.

Those conversion kits tend to be VERY expensive for what you are really gaining. Unless you are breaking outers at the locking hub every time you wheel it's not worth all the extra money. Just get some stock size cromo's and you can go to any junkyard for trail spares.

Awesome, thank you sir.:grinpimp: Looks like that'll be my plan of action at pick-and-pull. The scout axle right now is complete, but the knuckles need to be reamed, and I don't see spending the money on them when I could just go 30 spline, and get a better turning radius with a different setup. So, since I have rotors/and the sort, I need this, right?

Chevy D44 knuckles (any year I guess? Or should I stay away fro mcertain ones?)
Chevy D44 spindle
And Ball joints for it

Double check me and see if I got my shopping list right. Thanks for the help again.

I must not have explained this very well. I'll try again.

30 spline kits were only offered to replace late model jeep (XJ,MJ,YJ,ZJ,TJ,LJ) dana 30 unit bearing assemblies and convert to full float 5 on 5.5 wheel hubs. You NEED >>>>>Warn<<<<< wheel hubs, locking hubs, spindles, axle shafts, and some not-so-common seals and bearings to convert to 30 spline outers. It used to cost around $1000 for the entire 30 spline kit. You end up with no junk yard parts and BIG expensive head ache when you break stuff. I have a kit. I wish I just built a junkyard front D44 for My XJ.

The CJ kits cost around $400 and all you get are internal spline wheel hubs and locking hubs. The cheap kit does NOT replace the axle shaft and comes with 27 spline locking hubs.

>>>>>>>>>>Warn does not make the kits anymore!<<<<<<<<<<<<<. The only place to get this stuff is over stocked warehouses.

Randy's R&P has taken over. I'm not sure any kits have been released yet.

Solid is the only company making a kit for what you want.

30 spline outers can be a weak link on a dana 60. 19 spline outers on a dana 44 are not a typical weak link. Wait and see how fast the $$$ stacks up when you by CTMs, lockers, gears, good USA made chromo axle shafts and all the small parts for an axle. You are welcome to spend your money how you want. I march to a different drum sometimes, but your pimp 44 build will begin to approach the cost of a mild D60 build. GOOD 19 spline chromo's will do you fine. Frivolous expenditures for nominal upgrades will cease to warrant any attention once you price all this out.





As for Junk yard stuff...

search info on small bearing vs big bearing Chevy/wagoneer spindles. You need to know about that. If you go the full junkyard route, you will need:

Chevy D44 small bearing spindles
Chevy D44 flat top Knuckles
Chevy Calipers for your knuckles.
Ford Wheel hubs
Ford Rotor


I'm almost certain that Scout wheel hubs will not fit on a chevy spindle and the axle shafts are a different length. Ford D44 wheel hubs will fit perfectly on Chevy D44 spindles and the rotor will line right up inside the caliper.

Get the axle shafts out of just about any D44 and some locking hubs and you will be fine.

Keep it simple. The Junkyard build above is easy, cheap and parts are plentiful.

Not sure if this will help but here is what I did..
76 CJ 7...
Put in a 44 out of a scout.. The knuckes on it where very close to a flat top knuckle..so I kept them in there. I have a 60 in the rear, wanted to match the wheel pattern. From the knuckle out I put in chevy, including the axles. If I remember correctly they are longer, to match with the longer spindle. I had to drill the correct hole pattern for the spindle to mate up with the scout knuckle. Really easy to do.

As for Junk yard stuff...

search info on small bearing vs big bearing Chevy/wagoneer spindles. You need to know about that. If you go the full junkyard route, you will need:

Chevy D44 small bearing spindles
Chevy D44 flat top Knuckles
Chevy Calipers for your knuckles.
Ford Wheel hubs
Ford Rotor

Going to need the Chevy calipers as well (which are cheaper for replacement than Scout anyhow and better).

Awesome. Thanks. I understand the cost Vs. a D60, but a D60 is much too large for a Flatty, especially a flatty running 35's. And I also already have the D44's, so why not?

I'll go to the junkyard and grab all those parts, and pull the shaft out of the chevy (or ford I guess) while I'm at it. And looks like I will be wider on chevy knuckles right? Not by much, but by a little. So I will have to do all this before I get my axle measurments to find out where I need to cut it to center it.

I'll search and try to find out the big spindle/small spindle and what vehicles they came on. Also, any special reason for flat top knuckles?

I agree a little flatty on 35"s does not need a nuke-proof axle.

Flat top chevy knuckles will give you a myriad of options should you run into clearance problems with your drag link and tie rod when the suspension cycles. It's pretty hard to get better D44 knuckles than a stock chevy flat top.

The wheel mounting surface probably won't change much at all, but the hubs might stick out further.

I don't care if the hubs stick out a lot, just if the WMS changes. Will it be more or less than a 1" (estimating?). Reason I ask is because I would like to move forward with my front end and start the tear down, but don't want to do this if my measurments will change with the knuckles. Right now my tire sits about the same place as my rear, but I want it at least 1" wider that way it will track truer. If it's hardly any difference than great, I can measure, re-measure, and measure again, and then rip apart the front end and get to work tearin the sucker down.

to quote my Grandpa:
"shit or get off the pot, boy"
:flipoff2:

to quote my Grandpa:
"shit or get off the pot, boy"
:flipoff2:

I can't shit till wensday, everythings half off.:flipoff2:

Well, done some thinking (whoa, catch your breath, I know this is amazing) and have come to a few calculations (another first?). I don't see how I would brake a D30 knuckle, and I have a narrow trac D30 sitting in the yard for spares to my CJ. I can jack the knuckles off it and run the scout brakes. I would have to bore out the spindle, big deal.

I can just bore out and ream the scout crap, but I think I may not have enough turning radius. I will do the math tomorrow, measure, and find out. I am running the same steering as my CJ, so I can get semi accurate measurments.

Or the chevy/ford idea, which is most pricey.

Who makes these 30 spline outers you keep talking about?

Are they part of the old Warn internal hub conversion that is no longer made?

If so, no boring of the spindles was necessary with them.

I'm interested to see what you're trying to put together as I don't believe some of it is even produced any longer.

Who makes these 30 spline outers you keep talking about?

Are they part of the old Warn internal hub conversion that is no longer made?

If so, no boring of the spindles was necessary with them.

I'm interested to see what you're trying to put together as I don't believe some of it is even produced any longer.

Your right, except Randys has it.:flipoff2::laughing:

But, they are NOT made anymore (just like you said), meaning that if I break one, I have to buy a custom shaft, and I am screwed over on replacing a hub.

And I am going to try and use the scout stuff, but run chevy/ford 19 spline outers with Warn internal spline hubs. We'll see how this goes, I'll have more updates on friday (maybe sooner). Taking the front axle to get worked on since I don't have a drill press, etc.

What does a lack of a drill press have to do with swapping the outers?

From the sounds of things, you're not really familiar with the parts in question. There's nothing needed other than hand tools for the swap you're wanting to do. You'll need a balljoint press, but Autozone has those as loaners and all of this can be done with the axle on the vehicle. :confused:

What does a lack of a drill press have to do with swapping the outers?

From the sounds of things, you're not really familiar with the parts in question. There's nothing needed other than hand tools for the swap you're wanting to do. You'll need a balljoint press, but Autozone has those as loaners and all of this can be done with the axle on the vehicle. :confused:

No no no no.:laughing: I have to take the axle in because I needed parts reamed and what not (which now I don't), and I don't have the tools to press the ARB onto the R/P and the tools to make sure it's lined up right on que. I figured drill press on boring out the spindle.

But, another turn of events, guess what, I'm back to using ford stuff. I still think I could use Ford knuckles, but as mentioned someone said it will get in the way of the springs SUA? If so, then I gotta get chevy stuff too.

Why are you swapping anything in the first place? Whats wrong with the scout stuff?

Why are you swapping anything in the first place? Whats wrong with the scout stuff?

External hubs are a pain (bolts always go loose) and would prefer a stronger shaft over the 27 spline.

Yukon also makes 30sp outers, they had them in stock when I ordered mine. Warn was the only one making lockouts, you can find slugs lots of places same as rear full float kits. I would bet you can find some stocked somewhere or somebody is going to start making them to go with the RCV stuff. The only thing you need to do to go 30sp after that is order the hub (which I was sure I could find a junk yard equivelant but didn't research it, I had a 83 full size Bronco that had a very similar hub with a TTB 44) bore the spindle to 1.35" and get some lockouts/flanges. All the seals are the same.

If you already have all of the Scout stuff but want to run hi steer you can drill the Chevy flat top knuckle from 6 to 8 bolt and use all of the Scout outer stuff. 2 of the holes line up just put studs through those 2 and use the scout caliper mount as a template. You will have to grind the hi steer arm to clear the caliper depending on the arms you go with.

I ended up going with chevy stuff, I am going to run the scout roters/calipers with ford hubs. Picked up the spindles, whole axle, and everything for $60. I am going to use the chevy housing instead on the scout since I only have to cut each end instead of lengthening one.:smokin:

http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/qq207/2003_ram/PB211099.jpg

search info on small bearing vs big bearing Chevy/wagoneer spindles. You need to know about that. If you go the full junkyard route, you will need:

Chevy D44 small bearing spindles
Chevy D44 flat top Knuckles
Chevy Calipers for your knuckles.
Ford Wheel hubs
Ford Rotor


I'm almost certain that Scout wheel hubs will not fit on a chevy spindle and the axle shafts are a different length. Ford D44 wheel hubs will fit perfectly on Chevy D44 spindles and the rotor will line right up inside the caliper.

Get the axle shafts out of just about any D44 and some locking hubs and you will be fine.

Keep it simple. The Junkyard build above is easy, cheap and parts are plentiful.

I figured I would update this for anybody searching and doing the same swap. I took your guys advice and got all the parts. Here's what I did...

Went to the junkyard and grabbed chevy caliper brackets with backing plates, and chevy calipers. $25

Went to Check Auto and gave them the old calipers, which in turn they give me $25 a piece! Making my prior purchase absolute, and making it so I only spent $40 on brand new calipers and pads.:grinpimp:

I bought the Ford Rotors (from a '86 Bronco) and ford hubs (same year Bronco) for $150 brand new.

And then the priorly mentioned small style chevy spindle. I am able to use all bearings/seals from the scout axles which saves me $80 on a rebuild kit. I also had to buy a different chevy housing because my junkyard find had crack in the center section. New housing costed me $40 with Mile Marker lockouts in working order, came with a 3:73 R/P in great shape which is worth the $40 easily, offsetting that cost.

Overall my cost was $190 using almost all new parts. I pre-assembled it yesterday to insure working order, and it works perfectly. Thanks JPwizard for that list because thats what I worked off of buying the parts, and to everyone else that helped out.

Glad to see you finally came to your senses:D

Just curious why you bought the wheel hubs brand new? They are rarely a problem.

I probably could have gone to the junkyard and found them, but the nearest one with Ford trucks is about 30-40 miles away. It was just easier to get them 2 miles away new. I paid about double what the yard wanted, but hey at least it's new junk!:D