I have a hp 44 with open knuckle kingpin knuckles. I also have a line on 60 outers for 400 bucks. the 44 is not built yet(still needs gears and locker) and I hear that the small yokes on this 44 cannot accept aftermarket axles or ctm joints. im checking into it, but if they cannot, would it be worth it to attempt to graft my 60 outers onto this axle or do I have to bite the bullet and buy a 60 complete. I wanted to run 40" tires.

can I do the work myself? i can cut and weld. what else is involved? who can provide me axles with 60 yokes that will fit in my 44 carrier(maybe even 33 spline carrier?)

lay it on my guys, this should be a good topic.

i dont think that its worth it. there would be too much work involved, and by the time you spent the money on custom axleshafts you could have a whole front 60, and you would gain the much stronger ring gear and carrier.

if you are worried about ground clearance, you can shave a D60 to more clearance than a D44 very easily. do a search and you will come up with about a million topics about this mod.

good luck in any case!

Originally posted by thenodnarb
can I do the work myself? i can cut and weld. what else is involved? who can provide me axles with 60 yokes that will fit in my 44 carrier(maybe even 33 spline carrier?)

You will need an alignment jig to ensure the housing is true. A jig will probably set you back at least $400. So, I'd probably search for someone to do it, unless you plan on doing more housings for others. How complete are the 60 ends? If you are just getting the inner casting and the outer knuckles, then you have to add in the cost of spindles, rotors, hubs, brakes, etc... I imagine that the cheapest you could get axles made would be $250. Plus the cost of outer stubs. Just laying out some of the costs. It is do-able, Just depends on how much you want to spend.

Don't crosspost...
You posted the same thing in JeepTech.

Personally, I'm interested in the idea.
D44 isn't just a Jeep part, you know.

Man this is a bad idea,the 44 has a 2 3/4" tube, the 60 is 3 1/8",the 44 is 30 spline - those 35 splines will not fit and the 60 is 8 lug, it cost too much for five lug. steve

If you had a D44 already setup with a locker, this might make sense... Seems like a lotta work, otherwise.

An HP44 in front axle usage would be pretty darn strong, but 40" tires is pushing it.

You could do the work yourself, if you had a lathe to turn down the outside of the D44 tubes and the inside of the 60 tubes... you won't need an alignment jig for the front axle -- interference fit from the tubes should work well enough.... You would have to have the 60 inners resplined to work with the 44 center section.

Randii

Originally posted by randii
[B You would have to have the 60 inners resplined to work with the 44 center section.

Randii [/B]
not if ya got a 30spline D60. If the knuckles were spaced right, you could still use stock 30spline D60 shafts. Haven't heard of too many D44 ring/pinions bustin up (other than old stock units). Wonder if ya could get a D44 Detriot side gears broached to 35 spline??

Whoa, whoa, whoa! It's not that difficult! As Mathew S O'Bryan can tell you, Maxles Engineering out of Rapid City, SD has been doing this for years.
They are taking HP 44s, running Dana 50 35 spline guts, and Dana 60 or Ford F450 outers. Done deal. The only downside(if you can call it a downside) is the choice of differentials for the Dana 50 Carrier. You are stuck with an OX locker, ARB, lock-Right, or by now they should have the custom spools out.
I, personally, think it is too much work. But in the Hills, low and skinny vehicles get it done. The factory 60's weigh WAY too much, while the 44/50/60 hybrid wieghs in the same as a 44 or only slightly more. Thicker tubes are installed at the same time, as is your desired width.
Now what's so "impossible" about that?

Originally posted by twistedmetal
Whoa, whoa, whoa! It's not that difficult! As Mathew S O'Bryan can tell you, Maxles Engineering out of Rapid City, SD has been doing this for years.
They are taking HP 44s, running Dana 50 35 spline guts, and Dana 60 or Ford F450 outers. Done deal. The only downside(if you can call it a downside) is the choice of differentials for the Dana 50 Carrier. You are stuck with an OX locker, ARB, lock-Right, or by now they should have the custom spools out.
I, personally, think it is too much work. But in the Hills, low and skinny vehicles get it done. The factory 60's weigh WAY too much, while the 44/50/60 hybrid wieghs in the same as a 44 or only slightly more. Thicker tubes are installed at the same time, as is your desired width.
Now what's so "impossible" about that?

that sounds sweet!!! :eek: how much cash are we talkin? :D

If the knuckles were spaced right, you could still use stock 30spline D60 shafts.
Ummm... FRONT axles with 30 splines at the diff?

Originally posted by 9V


that sounds sweet!!! :eek: how much cash are we talkin? :D


I have an idea, but it would be better if you talked to them. They keep coming up with new ideas and faster ways of doing things. Call Bradley Williams at (605)381-3854. Leave a message if you don't catch him. I'd try later at night.

OH YEAH! Tell him Cody told you to call him.

Originally posted by randii
If the knuckles were spaced right, you could still use stock 30spline D60 shafts.
Ummm... FRONT axles with 30 splines at the diff?
Yes, a lot of Dana 60 fronts come with 30 splined inners, mainlly 77 and ealier. That's basic knowledge. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by twistedmetal
Whoa, whoa, whoa! It's not that difficult! As Mathew S O'Bryan can tell you, Maxles Engineering out of Rapid City, SD has been doing this for years.
They are taking HP 44s, running Dana 50 35 spline guts, and Dana 60 or Ford F450 outers. Done deal. The only downside(if you can call it a downside) is the choice of differentials for the Dana 50 Carrier. You are stuck with an OX locker, ARB, lock-Right, or by now they should have the custom spools out.
I, personally, think it is too much work. But in the Hills, low and skinny vehicles get it done. The factory 60's weigh WAY too much, while the 44/50/60 hybrid wieghs in the same as a 44 or only slightly more. Thicker tubes are installed at the same time, as is your desired width.
Now what's so "impossible" about that? Hey twistedmetal, there is NO dana 50 35 spline! steve Differential eng. inc.

Originally posted by randii
You could do the work yourself, if you had a lathe to turn down the outside of the D44 tubes and the inside of the 60 tubes... you won't need an alignment jig for the front axle -- interference fit from the tubes should work well enough.... You would have to have the 60 inners resplined to work with the 44 center section.

Randii
Hey Randii, have any odeas for me here? Thanks
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=81964

Originally posted by steve gerstner
Hey twistedmetal, there is NO dana 50 35 spline! steve Differential eng. inc.

Really?:eek: Gosh, then how is my brother running a 50 ring gear with 35 spline axle shafts? Even stranger, is that he has a Dana 50 35 spline lockrite. That IS strange!

Originally posted by twistedmetal
...running Dana 50 35 spline guts, and Dana 60 or Ford F450 outers. Done deal. The only downside(if you can call it a downside) is the choice of differentials for the Dana 50 Carrier. You are stuck with an OX locker, ARB, lock-Right, or by now they should have the custom spools out.


OK... how do D44 inards and D50 innered vary... can you run D50 stuff in a standard D44 housing??

And this is the first I have heard of 35-spline D44 ARB's... is this true?!?!? that would be sweet.... and could lead to some really intresting possabilities.... including the rear axle idea I have been kicking around for a little while...

I have heard you can get D44 35-spline SPOOLS from Reider Racing (I think it was them, maybe it was Strange).. but a ARB or OX would be MUCH cooler :beer: :beer:


please tell me more, e-mail or PM if you would like...

Anything (other than spool) with a 35spline to go in a D44 would be way sweet. I haven't heard of anything available yet tho (haven't realy looked yet either).
Mosers makin D60 shafts now right? are they 35 & 30spline or just 35spline??
I thought all D50's were 30spline, Pretty sure the TTB's are. Whats the advantage to using the D50 center over the D44 center??

umm why cant i find a dana 50 lock rite with 35 splines? but any why does tera call there tera 50 a 50 when it is just a dana 44HP? think that maybe the Dana 50s that are in the super dutys cold just be dana 44s with dana 60 outers????

The largest spline count available for a D44 is 33 spline. There isnt enough room in the carrier for 1.5" shafts.

My understanding is that they don't use anything 44 other than the housing. The guts are dana 50 stuff. I have no clue as to how it works, I just know that 6 people I wheel with are running them.
Their website is www.maxles.com Check it out. The man in charge is Mason Thorson. His partner is my pal Bradley. I just got my 60's back after having them narrow,re-tube and 35 spline the rear. It was cheap, and done well!

What is the Dia. of the 33spline D44 shafts?? Are they REALY any stronger than the 30spliners?

hmmm... It *could* be possible....


just for grins, I just ran out and measured a D44 carrier... Side Bearing surface measures out at 1.80".... one sould be able to bore the inner out to just over 1.50 and still leave plenty of meat for the bearings (a .125" wall thinkness should be sufficient), so it could be possible, if you found a different bearing, it could work even better..

if anyone finds out anything, keep us informed.... not ALL of use are ready to give up on the D44 just yet. :D

Originally posted by twistedmetal


Really?:eek: Gosh, then how is my brother running a 50 ring gear with 35 spline axle shafts? Even stranger, is that he has a Dana 50 35 spline lockrite. That IS strange!

Spicer lists 30 and 31 splined axles for the 1980 Dana 50 IFS (F350),
it even lists 30 and 31 splines for the Dana 44 IFS in 1980.

First off, what's with this 1980 crap? Second, stop trying to tell me birds don't fly! IT IS BEING DONE! IT HAS BEEN DONE! IT WILL BE DONE AGAIN! Good grief! Check the damn website. Talk to Mason. But, for god's sake, stop calling me a liar!

I can back twisted up.
I've seen the 44/50/60 'breeds w/ my own eyes.

Like he said, up here, a Scout is W-I-D-E, and the sawzall lift is common, just to keep the rig low. One CJ up here runs 40's, SII width axles, no lift.

Might not make sense for some poeple, but the Hills are an entirely different ball game.

Mark, I can check up on them axles if you like, maybe even deliver one to NWBRU next year :D:D

THANK YOU! Geez. Hey, Mick? You checked out www.midwestcrawler.com , yet? We have a few other RC boys on there. Be nice to have another western dakota boy on there to keep me informed!

Originally posted by twistedmetal
<snip>
I, personally, think it is too much work. But in the Hills, low and skinny vehicles get it done. The factory 60's weigh WAY too much, while the 44/50/60 hybrid wieghs in the same as a 44 or only slightly more. Thicker tubes are installed at the same time, as is your desired width.
Now what's so "impossible" about that?
No, I'm not calling you a liar by any means, but I do have a question...

You say these hybrids are good because D60s weigh too much. Hmmm, complete D60 outers, thicker tubes, (guessing) shafts comparable to the D60, and a D50 carrier/ring/pinion(?). How much less would that weigh than a full D60? I can’t imagine it would be over 30-40 lbs at most. Just pulled that number out of, well, you know where, but it doesn’t seem worth anywhere near that trouble. And it doesn’t seem to me that the max clearance for a D44/D50 center would be that much more than an HP D60, assuming both were shaved to the max reasonable level.

I’m obviously missing something, please give me a clue, otherwise, it seems to me these hybrids fall right in the same place with those Wagoner C14FF based front axles. They are cool, I respect anyone with the skills to make such a beast, and I envy anyone with the $$$ to buy such things, but, I don’t see why I would really want one…

OK, I've got so far that there ARE 30 spline 1.31" diameter 60 front inner shafts. Can't remember the tube size on my EB front end, but I'm sure it could be adapted to the 60 inner "C". So with the money already invested in an OX locker, why not replace the "C" and knuckles and throw in 60 shafts as opposed to droppin the dime for warns and CTM's? This should save a bunch since I wont have to find the $$$ driver side drop 60, but could use the parts off of just about any front 60 I find in a parts pile. End up with bigger joints, king pin knuckles, easy high steer, and 8 lug to match the 60 rear that is down the road a ways. I'm not talkin about buying an already assembled hybrid as there are better choices, but as for upgrading what you already have, why not? I think this got way off topic with the arguements about wasting money, I just want an answer about the possabilities.

Kwrangln

Now THAT argument, I understand... :D

Originally posted by BadDog

No, I'm not calling you a liar by any means, but I do have a question...

You say these hybrids are good because D60s weigh too much. Hmmm, complete D60 outers, thicker tubes, (guessing) shafts comparable to the D60, and a D50 carrier/ring/pinion(?). How much less would that weigh than a full D60? I can?t imagine it would be over 30-40 lbs at most. Just pulled that number out of, well, you know where, but it doesn?t seem worth anywhere near that trouble. And it doesn?t seem to me that the max clearance for a D44/D50 center would be that much more than an HP D60, assuming both were shaved to the max reasonable level.

I?m obviously missing something, please give me a clue, otherwise, it seems to me these hybrids fall right in the same place with those Wagoner C14FF based front axles. They are cool, I respect anyone with the skills to make such a beast, and I envy anyone with the $$$ to buy such things, but, I don?t see why I would really want one?

BD, you live in Arid-zona.
'nuff said.

The Maxles are a specific solution to specific problems brought about by the unique wheeling around here.

Whats the cost of a cut down HP60????
Try finding an HP60 here in the upper Midwest.

OTOH, D44s/D50s are dirt cheap and common. My understanding is a savings of nearly 100lbs/1" of clearance over a 60, besides the difficulties in locating the damn thing in the first place, then getting it narrowed.

Originally posted by That Mick
Mark, I can check up on them axles if you like, maybe even deliver one to NWBRU next year :D:D


ya, check up on those if you can... wheels are spinning in my head (ouch, it hurts!!)


get me info on how they do it/what they use... I'll build it my self... I love a challange :D

BTT


Now that the arguing has died down, does anyone else have any ideas on this? A Dana 50 is basically a 44 diff in a 60 housing with 60 axles, so why not put the yokes off a 60 on to my 44 housing?

following that same line... why not just run the D50???


not familur enought with them to know the answer my self.

The 50 stil has the 60 pumpkin, just more space around the 44 sized ring gear, so same clearance underneath as a 60. Could probably shave the hell outa one tho. But thats neither here nor there since I already have 5.38's and an OX for my 44.

Originally posted by twistedmetal


Really?:eek: Gosh, then how is my brother running a 50 ring gear with 35 spline axle shafts? Even stranger, is that he has a Dana 50 35 spline lockrite. That IS strange!

Cody, you should know if it has not been done on the coasts, it can't be done.:rolleyes:

Originally posted by kwrangln
OK, I've got so far that there ARE 30 spline 1.31" diameter 60 front inner shafts. Can't remember the tube size on my EB front end, but I'm sure it could be adapted to the 60 inner "C".
Kwrangln
Axle tube measures
'74 EB D44 (mine)=2.753" (??" wall tubes)
'76 D60 (mine)=3.121" (3/8" wall tubes)
'79 HP D44 (mine)=2.956" (1/2" wall tubes)

Not trying to re-start the fire, but I keep in ming that I never said that they are THE SHIZNIT. I just said that it could be done. Basically, it works like this: Someone ALREADY in the market to buy a custom built axle, who would kinda like to shy away from the size of a full on 60, and shave off a few pounds in the process, would love to buy a Maxle. They aren't that expensive. I didn't really want to say a price because I would hate one of you guys calling up tere and rattling off this number. I checked into it at one time and a fully tricked out 44/50/60 HP44 Hybrid was going to run me around $4000. That's with custom 35 spline alloyshafts and all. Now add up the cost of CTMs, custom shafts, or shaving and bracing a 60, and narrowing it. Throw in a Detroit and gears and suddenly, you've spent more than you would have had you went fully custom. Basically, it's just a "while I'm in there..." type of deal.

I believe kwrangln is tryin to save buy using what hes already shelled out for(Locker/Gearset/driveshaft). If he goes D60 or D50 he needs new locker, gears, and most likely get drive shaft adjusted.
Howz this for pricey-
get any D60, I got one for $300 Can (so like $100 US).:flipoff2:
put knuckles on D44 (some machining & shit I'm sure)
adjust short side so a stock shaft will work
custom longside axle
re-assemble knuckles out.
perches, spring mounts, shock mounts already in place
NO $$$ for gears & locker & front shaft doesn't change.
leaves you running and upgradable to full custon shafts and CTM's for the future. Altho limited to 30spline inners.(maybe 33spline Supper D44 crap).
Altho a 35spline Detroit for a D44 would make it "SUPPER SHIZNIT" :D :D

Originally posted by Rogue Bronco
... I got one for $300 Can (so like $100 US).:flipoff2:
put...


can you get any more for that price?!?!


if so.... I'll be up with my trailer this weekend and we can load some up :D :D

Hey...Rusto...

I am in Edmonton, Alberta Canada right now, aaa!

Will be home tomorrow...lets go get some axles, aaa!

you should be worrying about getting married next week, aaa!

Originally posted by TR
rockslut how did keith at redline make 35 spline side gears for a dana 44 detroit? BTW i know Keith was a absolute asshole but it can be done.

being an ex redline employee... let me correct you bad info here :flipoff2:

the 35sp side gears for detroit's were for toyota's, teh D44's were enver actually made, just a wet wet wet wet wet dream :D

Originally posted by That Mick


OTOH, D44s/D50s are dirt cheap and common.

are any of you REMOTLY aware that a true Dana model 50 ONLY came as a live axle in 99-01 Fords? how can they be plentiful?? and if there is such a thing as a 35sp D50 ARB or lockrite, someone produce a part number... i have the ENTIRE ARB unit listing sittin in front of me as i type and there is NO 35sp D50 lsited... and i am to lazy to get my tractech manual out of the closet to chec there too, but having looked it up before for a personal project i know as of 4 months ago tractech didn't even PLAN to build one...

now i DO know how to retro a different 35sp lockrite into a true ford D50 carrier ;) all it takes is a set of dial calipers, a lathe, and both lockrite's in hand to get the spec's off of... though it makes the outer gears to teh L/R mighty thin :D

i have a pile of busted 30 spline custom shafts from my foray into hybred 60's. i am of the opinion that if you are gonna make custom shit make it bigger,stronger and lighter than what is available. otherwise you are wastin money.

fwi. mine was a hp toy 8" and 60 outers. i kept breaking the 30 spline shaft. now i am building a 40 spline 60.

Originally posted by twistedmetal
Whoa, whoa, whoa! It's not that difficult! As Mathew S O'Bryan can tell you, Maxles Engineering out of Rapid City, SD has been doing this for years.
They are taking HP 44s, running Dana 50 35 spline guts, and Dana 60 or Ford F450 outers. Done deal. The only downside(if you can call it a downside) is the choice of differentials for the Dana 50 Carrier. You are stuck with an OX locker, ARB, lock-Right, or by now they should have the custom spools out.

I hate to punch another hole but I sent OX an e-mail and they don't have a locker for a Dana 50. certainly not of the 35 spline variety.
I'm working out the details for a hy-brid 44/60 I'm doing for a friend.
We're all over a selectable locker that fits a 44 that has 35 spline sides! But I keep coming up empty.
Maxles must be re-cutting the sides.

Does a D44 detroit have enough 'BEEF' to broach the sides to accept a 35spl axle??
or would they become mirco thin, adding the 'fusable link' to the side gears??:D
{fingers crossed/hoping sides are huge w small hole}

Originally posted by doctor_G

I hate to punch another hole ...

You can't "punch a hole" in it. It is not a theory or an idea.
THEY ARE DOING IT.
I don't know all the details, so call the people that do!

I remember hearing about someone performing this setup, Dynatrac or Currie. The benefits would be the clearance but there are a lot of things to change over with this. All the odds and ends add up fast. Also theres the shafts that would have the beef on the ends but the inners would still have to be smaller. I've seen HP 60's posted for as low as $800, for that cheap you would probably be better off with a 60 than a hybrid.

HOLY CRAP THIS THREAD IS CONFUSING :flipoff2:

All I want to know is this...

What lockers (if any) are available for a D44 in 33 or 35 spline?

I'm pretty sure you can get a 33 spline spool and Ox locker. Anything else?

What's the bottom line on a 35 spline D44 locker? I want proof it there's one out there :flipoff2:

Thanks,

Mike

Originally posted by DSI


being an ex redline employee... let me correct you bad info here :flipoff2:

the 35sp side gears for detroit's were for toyota's, teh D44's were enver actually made, just a wet wet wet wet wet dream :D

so you can broach a toyota side gear to 35 spline? :confused:

Curt Hidelbrand competed all last year with a 44/60 hybrid in his green YJ. If I recall he ran a 33 spline locker and saved 125lbs over a Tera 60R. Never Broke a front shaft.

Originally posted by BJ On Roids


so you can broach a toyota side gear to 35 spline? :confused:

broach, i don't know, don't see why you couldn't... keith had new 35sp V6 detroit side gears made, i know they were made... i had the very first one ever made sitting on my desk :D

Originally posted by DSI


broach, i don't know, don't see why you couldn't... keith had new 35sp V6 detroit side gears made, i know they were made... i had the very first one ever made sitting on my desk :D

how cool is that? where can i get some? who made them?

how much $$ are we talking? :D

Originally posted by boz88xj
Don't crosspost...
You posted the same thing in JeepTech.

Ummm...I'm interested in this topic, yet I never go into "JeepTech," but thanks for your input anyhow. :rolleyes:

?!?!There is a 'Jeep Tech'?!?!?! LOL
Anyone contemplated getting the D44 junk broached to 35spl.??
And, the side gears on a Detroit/ARB would be hardened correct? Can you broach somethin thats hardened?? Or would you have to start from scratch??

Does anyone have an actual measurement for the Dana 50 ring gear? I've seen 3 different numbers (8.5";9";9.25")

Also, is the 30 spline Dana 44 really the same size as the 30 spline Dana 60? I.E. will one actually slide into the other's side gear?

My TTB D50 ring gear measures 9"
And the D44 30spl side gears are the same as D60 30spl. (bin there, done that), and the same as D50 30spl (tried it outa curiosity).

Originally posted by XtremeEngineering
Curt Hidelbrand competed all last year with a 44/60 hybrid in his green YJ. If I recall he ran a 33 spline locker and saved 125lbs over a Tera 60R. Never Broke a front shaft.

FYI, that custom housing was built by MaXles Engenieering(you know, that company I've been spewing on about?:D ).
And for what it's worth(enjoy this, it only happens once a year!), I was wrong....It isn't a 50 chuck with a 44 ring gear wrapped around it, it's the other way around. 50 ring gear, 44 carrier, and 60 outers. The available 35 spline carriers are a spool and a Lock-rite. They have also just dug into some new 'Moly 60 shafts in 30 and 33 spline, which will open up a whole new world of options. If you guys want some info, call Bradley Williams at (605)381-3854, he's probably tagging along with this thread right now, just can't reply(he's a Yahoo).

I have the first 35 spline HP 44 that MAXLES made! My TJ is on their website.
To set the record straight, they are only available with a lockright or a spool.
I'll try to post a video in the next week of the 35 spline Maxles rear end.
Maxles built a front and rear for Curt H. and also partially built the 60's that Paule used before the TeraFlex sponsorship.

If you call them, the number on the website is no longer good. call 605-381-3854.

HA! I beat ya' to it, Chin! BTW, I dig yer quote, man! 'Bout ready to do some wheelin? I'm gettin' closer....:(

Originally posted by ChinLei and twistedmetal
... only available with a lockright or a spool....



hmm, I knew about the spool, but the LockWrong is available as well??.... hmmm. Is this a custom part or avaliable strait from Lock-Right... you have to bore the case then I assume... since the stock case won't take a 1.5" shafts... but there is plenty of meat there to do so...


hmm, may have to talk to my buddy with the lathe..... :D


oh great, I got wheels turning in my head again.... that can never be good. And I thought I just made up my mind on what axle to build.... for now.... :rolleyes:

Like I said, for more and better info, call Bradley. There must be some tricks to it or everyone would be doing it, no?

Twisted,

I sent you a pic of my 35 spline Dana 44. Can you post it here for me.

:( Dude, I lost my star! That blows. I'll get a new shiny one in a few days, unless you can talk one of these cats into doing it?

Originally posted by ChinLei
Twisted,

I sent you a pic of my 35 spline Dana 44. Can you post it here for me.
I'd be happy to.

I sent it to you, Doc. Thanks a lot!

Here ya go.

Can someone post a video to this thread for me?

I have a movie of the MAXLES 35 spline D44. It shows a 44 High Pinion housing with a 35 spline axle engaging the side gears and turning the R&P. For comparison a D60 cover gasket is shown so you can tell that it is a D44 and the axle is then pulled out and compared to a standard 30 spline axle.

rumor has it that crane high clearance will have a mock up of somthing similer to this at easter jeep. dont know any thing else about it though. they are pretty tight lipped bunch.

umm.....bump :laughing:



Soooooo.....we've had 7 years to perfect this right? :D Does anyone have the part number for the 35 spline Lock-Right used in the 44 carrier? Is it the 60 unit?

nice. :laughing:
i saw the title and i was all ready to flame. 2002. wow. i have been coming here way too long. i remember when this was a "good" idea.

nice. :laughing:
i saw the title and i was all ready to flame. 2002. wow. i have been coming here way too long. i remember when this was a "good" idea.


Let clearify there might still be merit to these ideas. weight savings, 9" R&P and less cost than a 609.

A front 6054
So essentially you are talking in HP applications of a a name sake of 6050 or 6054
35 spline ARB RD147 with 9" Dana 50 r&p in a 44 housing and 60 outer's may or may not be as strong as a 609 but a healthy improvement and cant be called just a 44/60 hybrid
dana 50 R&P into a HP D44 housing info
http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=948996


A front 608.9
In Low pinion applications there are options too and you could call it a 608.9 Same RD147 ARB drilled out to run a JK dana 44 Ring and pinion and with the cut of the gears lending itself to more contact patch and the larger diameter of the pinion shaft the same diameter of a dana 60 it has little in common with the D44's of yester year. 35 spline shafts with this ring and pinion and an ARB could be very interesting. i just built a D44 low pinion front end with the JK gears RD147 and 35 spline shafts, king pin knuckles and 5 on 5.5 hubs for less than $2k finished. i couldnt have touched a comparible 609 for anywhere near that even with my parts swapping.
JK gears in a low pinion 44 housing
http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=957491


The point is that there is some wiggle room in the jump from a dana 44 to a dana 60. there are many factors, weight is a big one and if you dont want to dump the coin for a 609 a hybrid 608.9 or a 6054 front end can be done for 1/3 less to 1/2 less money with many junkyard parts and bargin shopping. it was a half brained idea 9 10 years ago when it was concieved because teh R&P's werent gaining you any thing and werent there but today with the jana kits guys have a middle ground option between high dollar 9 inch front end or heavy ass dana 60 front end. the dana 44 housing has some life still left in it with these potential upgrades question is is it wortht eh bucks for a 9 inch, worth the weight and hang down of a 60 or is there something to be said for the off color and very much improved D44 hybrids?

its food for thought

just to add fuel to this OLD fire.... a couple of years ago we built a D44 with 60 outers and toyota spindles and hubs for my buddy Rick's sidekick project

yukon Cromoly inners turned down to 30 spline and 30 spline ford outers with OTT made spindle/brake adapters

most people would say why??

and I would reply ..... because we had that shit around... and a CNC to play with ( at the time )

I was even asking questions about this set up! I was noticing the weak link was the u-joint.

why not a hybrid 44/60 running in HP style. It makes sense.

I was even asking questions about this set up! I was noticing the weak link was the u-joint.

why not a hybrid 44/60 running in HP style. It makes sense.

install a dana 50 ring and pinion and the momentary torque strength of the ring and pinion is very close to a lp dana 60 in strength.

from the original jana thread it was something like Dana rates the 44 @ 3460Ft-lbs maximum momentary output torque. Dana rates the 50 @ 5000 Ft-lbs maximum momentary output torque. 30 spline dana 60 @ 5500 and 35 spline Dana 60 at 6000 ft/lbs for the dana 60 r&p. with the jk 44 having a pinion shaft larger than that of a D50, better contact patch on the gear cut and similar diameter ring gear it can probably be assumed that the lp jk gear set and the 50 are close to equal improvements, and possibly the jk set may have an edge

since the 50 and the 44 share a very similar carrier case it can be argued that the D44's weakness is in its ring gear bolts (smaller bolt, the ring and pinion, then the u joints since the shafts on a 50 and 44 are the same dimension) if you can increase the momentary torque capacity of a D44 R&P by 1500 ft/lbs via installing either low pinion JK gears with or high pinion D50 gears into your older D44 housing you are opening the door to upgrading knuckles and going to larger joints and shafts without the cost of a 609 but getting into the ball park where 36's-38's maybe even 39's arent out of the question and ground clearance without a shave is still good, shave that 44 and clearance gets even better.


the arguement could be made that these hybrids might be worth discussing again even though they were at one time a laughing stock because it was good money after bad. And it gains clearance and weight and especially if you pickup a cheap dana 61 front end that you can rob parts off of while using larger R&P's in the stock D44 housings its a pretty interesting discussion.

So the real question is how cheap can one get jk 44 center sections or entire axles for ?

So the real question is how cheap can one get jk 44 center sections or entire axles for ?

is it easier to retrofit an older dana 44 with thicker tube walls and larger diameter tubes or retro fit and beef up a jk housing? since jk gears can be made to fit other 44 housings doesnt that make it a wash?

a new R&P the gear prices are equal, carrier they both share the same ARB you jsut drill out the ring gear bolt holes, the bearing kit is $250+/- with spacer and mix mached bearings vs a std kit at $125 so i assume the jk housing would have to be had for $125-200+/- since a std d44 housing can be had for $100?

oh yeah that 5.0 is still running like a swiss watch that we got from your buddy

is it easier to retrofit an older dana 44 with thicker tube walls and larger diameter tubes or retro fit and beef up a jk housing? since jk gears can be made to fit other 44 housings doesnt that make it a wash?

a new R&P the gear prices are equal, carrier they both share the same ARB you jsut drill out the ring gear bolt holes, the bearing kit is $250+/- with spacer and mix mached bearings vs a std kit at $125 so i assume the jk housing would have to be had for $125-200+/- since a std d44 housing can be had for $100?

oh yeah that 5.0 is still running like a swiss watch that we got from your buddy
If tube strength is a hangup, what about starting with a 3/4 ton 44 that has thick tubes from the factory? Then either D50 gears or JK gears depending on your original application.

If tube strength is a hangup, what about starting with a 3/4 ton 44 that has thick tubes from the factory? Then either D50 gears or JK gears depending on your original application.



thats excatly what i already did

Okay, I am curious about this axle. I have a d44/ ford 9 in my jeep now, and I really want to stay 38 inch tire and under. I had a rig on 42's/ tons and although it was fun I got tired of dealing with the behemoth.


It would be awesome to keep this housing and not have to start over again.

1. Locker options- Is the ARB the only choice? This makes it a hard sell due to the fact thats a $1000 (locker plus air) spent right there before any other parts bought

2. Currently running an Aussie Locker. Wonder if it can be broached to 35 spline? Need to research this. There are rumors of a 35 spline lock-rite in this thread, does it still exist?

3. Would it be worth it to keep my current HP 44 gears or is it a time bomb and should I go straight to HP 50? Currently running 4.56 but wanna go to a 5.13 or 5.38 in the future. If I built it now with the 4.56 gears and then changed gears at a later time I wonder how much I would be walking over myself money wise?

4. With a standard HP44 gear set, 35 spline shafts and dana 60 joints whats the reasonable tire size on this thing?


I find this a really cool option. Mainly because it is different and unique but still using mostly stock off the shelf parts.

To be continued

sdf

Okay, I am curious about this axle. I have a d44/ ford 9 in my jeep now, and I really want to stay 38 inch tire and under. I had a rig on 42's/ tons and although it was fun I got tired of dealing with the behemoth.


It would be awesome to keep this housing and not have to start over again.

1. Locker options- Is the ARB the only choice? This makes it a hard sell due to the fact thats a $1000 (locker plus air) spent right there before any other parts bought groupbuy4x4.com or whatever that site is quoted shipped for $850 +/-, its still a big pill to swallow

2. Currently running an Aussie Locker. Wonder if it can be broached to 35 spline? Need to research this. There are rumors of a 35 spline lock-rite in this thread, does it still exist?

3. Would it be worth it to keep my current HP 44 gears or is it a time bomb and should I go straight to HP 50? Currently running 4.56 but wanna go to a 5.13 or 5.38 in the future. If I built it now with the 4.56 gears and then changed gears at a later time I wonder how much I would be walking over myself money wise? the 50 gears are a nice upgrade in size and peace of mind but when you consider everything make sure you crind the housing and do the appropriate prep work now

4. With a standard HP44 gear set, 35 spline shafts and dana 60 joints whats the reasonable tire size on this thing? trevor at WFO runs that exact setup with 37's and a V8 in his green dodge IIRC, hp44's are strong but i like every bit of additional tooth contact i can get, every problem ive had with a R&P in a fron end has been with the pinion.


I find this a really cool option. Mainly because it is different and unique but still using mostly stock off the shelf parts.

To be continued