Say I was able to coerse a friend into trading me his 3-link for my stock radius arms. Good idea or bad? Keep in mind this is on a 6000lb rig but the heavy duty cross member will be employed. I have been toying with thedrilled bushings and some sort of castor correction and it seems the 3-link will solve my current issues. Anyone with a disco or a rangie please chime in and enlighten me! Thanks, I hope to get lots of good info on this one!:rolleyes:

drill the bushings

save the lawn chair for next summer.

:flipoff2:

Drill the bushings.

(sense a theme here?)

Just make sure that you have the 2 shell bushings, not three. The 3 shell make a helluva lot of noise when you drill them. Trust me.

I drilled. I max my shocks. I don't get tippy. I like it.

j

Discoweb terminology aside how many failures of the 3-link have there been since it was released to the public? I would feel much safer driving a 3-link truck rather than one with torn up bushings.

I think a front suspension that moves as freely as the rear is less tippy because the body doesn't follow the front axle as rigidly when climbing obstacles. I always feel more comfortable with a balanced suspension. If your vehicle feels too tippy on side hills try stiffer springs, offset wheels or a lev-o-gauge.

Originally posted by Fear Factory
Discoweb terminology aside how many failures of the 3-link have there been since it was released to the public? I would feel much safer driving a 3-link truck rather than one with torn up bushings.

I think a front suspension that moves as freely as the rear is less tippy because the body doesn't follow the front axle as rigidly when climbing obstacles. I always feel more comfortable with a balanced suspension. If your vehicle feels too tippy on side hills try stiffer springs, offset wheels or a lev-o-gauge.

mmmm, I hope your not saying that a rig with drilled radius arm bushes drive the same as a rig with "torn up bushings" because nothing could be further from the truth. If you drove a rig with drilled bushes I would guarantee that you would not be able to tell it had been done.

The decision to go three link or not should be based on how much front travel you want. Either more than a 12in travel or less than a 12in travel shock (12in travel is what I get with stock radius arms).

IMO 12in of shock travel in the front of a rangie or disco is way more than you can ever use. Especially so if the rig is running bigger tyres and is lifted a few inches. Having more travel than this may be useful in some instances, for example big horizontal boulder, driving up ramps or poser shots. Other than this all you will end up with is more front suspension travel that you can use and a rig that always wants to fall over.

Sam

Let me clarify MY post. I only hear the noise from the shells clicking. I do not FEEL any difference. Panic stops, hard corners, nothing.

Hey FearFactory,

I couldn't help but interject the D-web crack. Hehe.

In all seriousness, Josh's Disco is too heavy, too big and won't be utilized to the n'th degree like a heavily modified D90 would be.

IF he were willing to scrap the roof, get a lighter bumper, strip all the extra stuff off, sacrifice the doors etc....then it MIGHT behoove him to put a 3-link on.

IMO, the pain of the 3-link is not justified on a DD 100inch LR.

After seeing the tremendous PITA TomW had just in removing his front diff to diagnose a blown carrier, (he had a 3-link BTW), I think that I'll stick with the drilled bushings.

FWIW, I have the 3-shell bushings and I do not hear any clicking from them at all.

Now, if we're just going for 'cool' factor and to satisfy a personal ego trip, then what the hell. Go for the 3-link. Heaven knows I've done some stupid stuff in the name of vanity. :flipoff2:

It's your truck, do whatever you want! (I just had to toss in my comments)

I have the 3-link and like it on my D90 now D110. Not sure I would bother for a mostly DD. Only affords mild gains at the extreme of front end travel. I think is does afford some more "balance" to the articulation between front and rear, which is especially evident on "boulder field" type stuff. Keeps you very level front to back. Alot of its performance can be manipulated (read screwed up) by spring rates and lengths.

As far as accessing the front diff, Mike is right. However, you can pull off most of the arms and most bolts and swing it down out of the way without removing it completely. Saves some time this way.

Later,

Billster

ps. Busy in the garage bolting together the 36 bolt MRT's with the 38" TSL's. Man these things are big all blown up! Picts to follow soon. And man what a PITA to torque 144 bolts 3 times!!!

[/B][/QUOTE]And man what a PITA to torque 144 bolts 3 times!!! [/B][/QUOTE]

Only 3 times? Man, I went around about 5 times before I got a true 15ft lbs all the way around....Of course that's with a 20 bolt lock...Maybe the 36 bolt will get you there "quicker".

--D

Originally posted by FrankenRover
And man what a PITA to torque 144 bolts 3 times!!!

You love it and you KNOW it!

j

Just do it! You know you want the flex. Then again Scott may be so jealous that he wouldn't go wheeling with you any more.

Christian

damn you christian. you just want me to die so you can part out my disco. I think I'm gonna get it, but run it as a summer time only thing. Do you guys have anything to say about the strengh of the unit on a 6000+lb car?

summertime only thing? what does that mean?

and as for the strength of the unit on a 6000lb vehicle, i would be concerned o a point, especially if it is a daily driver. i am absolutely not bashing the three link, just saying that a DD 6000lb rig is not what it was designed for, and you MAY be pushing it past its limit.

FAWK I'm SICK of these 3-link threads!!! (I guess I shouldn't read them then eh? :flipoff2: )

If your worried about the weight of the vehicle and the strength of the 3-link, just ask what the average rock-ready D90 weighs in at...Brandon Loveday's rig weighed in at 5200...Greg's was over that. These guy's BEAT there rig's (jumping, hammering, you name it). I never did actually check the weight of my rig, but I'm sure it was close to 5k...And I BEAT that thing too. Never even had a fatigued bolt...AND I was using the VERY failure prone STOCK cross-member!!! O'NO!!!

I have to ask a question to all the people that are worried about the 3-link strength...Have you (or anyone else) ever run any load/stress calculations incorporating the strength of the chromo materials used in the link system? Have you seen any empirical evidence that points to the system having marginal strength on a "daily driver"?

I wouldn't worry about it in the slightest...But that's just me...A guy living on the lunatic fringe of life...

--D

OK RockRover, you need to chill dude. :flipoff2: (or quit reading 3-link posts)

I was just thinking that I wouldn't do it for 2 reasons:

1. cost/benefit analysis on a Disco that won't be wheeled to the extreme doesn't pan out.

2. PITA factor for doing any mods/repairs to the diffs AND doing the removal/installation of the system.

I have no empirical data as to the strength of the 3-link (don' t care actually).

The 2 reasons I mentioned are good enough NOT to use it in Josh's case (IMO).

In the case of MY reply, I think I've summed up my reasons.

D, would you say that your new 3-link is an evolution of SG's or did you design it from scratch using what you learned from other 3-links? Just curious. I'm not worried at all about what you'll do to your truggy, just wondering is all.

Josh (et al), don't let me sway you from doing whatever you want to do. I just see the benefit of the drilled bushings to satisfy 90% of DD LWB LR's (100inch+), and for the occasional rad-i-cool truck the 3-link is just the ticket.

I guess I just think that maybe some introspection is in order?

(tossing flame suit into trash can, let me have it!!!)

:flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Originally posted by Serious One
Hey FearFactory,

.....

After seeing the tremendous PITA TomW had just in removing his front diff to diagnose a blown carrier, (he had a 3-link BTW), I think that I'll stick with the drilled bushings.


Ahh, You "Woosies":flipoff2: I love the smell of 90 weight in the morning ( err... 3am in the morning is when I finally got it all back together, and I'm no slouch with a wrench! ).
I still like the system, but My rig is not a DD.


Originally posted by Serious One
FWIW, I have the 3-shell bushings and I do not hear any clicking from them at all.

I've done some stupid stuff in the name of vanity. :flipoff2:



Poseur:flipoff2:

But seriously I used to run Heim joints in place of bushings on my Radius arms ( eons ago on my Disco as an expirament from Greg@SG )..... I didn't notice a big difference ( I was running 9012's with my own custom long travel front shock mounts )... How do the drilled bushings work ( travel wise )?

Originally posted by tomw


Ahh, You "Woosies":flipoff2: I love the smell of 90 weight in the morning ( err... 3am in the morning is when I finally got it all back together, and I'm no slouch with a wrench! ).
I still like the system, but My rig is not a DD.



PS: said this before on other lists, but just to make sure:

Thanks for the help tool passing/ support/ mechanicing /shot of whiskey/good ideas :D
After the fact how to set upo a diff perfectly:

Billster, KC, Alan Dobbs, Serious One, Shane, Ivor, Merv & the Irish boys, Guy from Denver LR dealership w/ trailer and countless others....

I've changed many an axle/CV but never had to pull the entire front axle apart in the field before ( in the shop yea, parking lot of Moab hotel No! that was my fourth or fifth Moab trip! 1st Moab incedent )

Originally posted by tomw



But seriously I used to run Heim joints in place of bushings on my Radius arms ( eons ago on my Disco as an expirament from Greg@SG )..... I didn't notice a big difference ( I was running 9012's with my own custom long travel front shock mounts )... How do the drilled bushings work ( travel wise )?

daily driver, drilled bushings, stock arms, 18.5 inch springs, 9014 w/custom extended shock mounts, and I can literally PULL OUT the 18.5 inch spring unretained. THAT is more than enough travel for me without a 3 link. It should be enough for anyone on a daily driver.

j

[QUOTE]Originally posted by redrangie
[B]

THAT is more than enough travel for me without a 3 link. It should be enough for anyone on a daily driver.

whats a 3 link...a duplication of our rear axle we love so much. One thing I have noticed over time on postings on 3 links is the people who own them love them and the people who dont have them knock them....now thats curious as the people who have never had a 3 link on their truck will say they are trash. May be true but they are just going on what they hear from other people who have never had a 3 link on their truck. Cross member problem...2 I believe, but seemingly corrected now. The real culprit on a 3 link as a daily driver is the spring rates they were supplied with. Thats the roly poly feel people got...too soft a spring for the lift and for a daily driver regardless if a 3 link or radius arm set-up. I personally had concerns about the middle link front axle connection as far as geometry issues(radial loading) in the SG 3 link, but never had one so I cant say how it felt or handled...so if I comment I am only guessing. But that also is correctable which gets us back to we have a 3 link on the rear axle and no one knocks that?????Different loading but still a 3 link. Now regardless of how much droop, drop, sag and articulation you have....that doesnt matter as far as your daily driving as we drive on flat roads instead of rocks. To have a daily driver that can flex like mad to conform to offroading on weekends sounds sweet to me.
These arent opinions on 3 links, just opinions on opinions....so my suit is on now so blast away if your opinion justifies that.

Originally posted by Serious One
OK RockRover, you need to chill dude. :flipoff2: (or quit reading 3-link posts)

Yea, I suppose your right...I guess it's kinda like looking at a car wreck about to happen...Nothing you can do about it, but you stare anyway...

[/B][/QUOTE] D, would you say that your new 3-link is an evolution of SG's or did you design it from scratch using what you learned from other 3-links? Just curious. I'm not worried at all about what you'll do to your truggy, just wondering is all.[/B][/QUOTE]

Well actually there were many factors in choosing to go with a (non-wishbone) 3-link. Essentially what I wanted was my hydro system behind the axle (for obvious reasons)...That necessitated placing the outside links ABOVE the ram arms (this is good because it keeps my roll center higher...Somewhat...More on that later)...Then the question became how to I locate the axle laterally? I thought about using a 3 link wishbone system attached at the bottom of the axle, but I was concerned with drive line clearance and was also concerned with having the wish-bone attachment points too low on the x-member (check SG Gregs' system on his Rock90).

Unfortunately with the LR drive-train/front t-case output being so far forward in the LR, placing a 4 link, or high clearance wishbone 3-link is impossible.

Therefore I chose to use a single link (a'la' SG 3-link) at the axle CL and up to the CL of a new x-member. Should work just dandy...If it doesn't' I'll pull it, and build a wishbone 3-link, sacrifice a little belly clearance, and also loose my pan-hard (good).

[/B][/QUOTE]Josh (et al), don't let me sway you from doing whatever you want to do. I just see the benefit of the drilled bushings to satisfy 90% of DD LWB LR's (100inch+), and for the occasional rad-i-cool truck the 3-link is just the ticket.[/B][/QUOTE]

I also agree...But if your horny for modifications, your gonna' do what your gonna' do anyway...How many times did others influence on right v.s. wrong sway you concerning vehicle mods? In my case, not many! :) (although Rich H. was the final factor when I was trying to decide whether or not to chop my 90 into oblivion or build a dedicated buggy...Soooooo I suppose that the demise of my 90 is ultimately all Rich's fault! :flipoff2: (Rich you listening? I know your out there! :) )

--D

Originally posted by RoverWrench
[QUOTE]Originally posted by redrangie
[B]

THAT is more than enough travel for me without a 3 link. It should be enough for anyone on a daily driver.

Thats the roly poly feel people got...too soft a spring for the lift and for a daily driver regardless if a 3 link or radius arm set-up. Now regardless of how much droop, drop, sag and articulation you have....that doesnt matter as far as your daily driving as we drive on flat roads instead of rocks. To have a daily driver that can flex like mad to conform to offroading on weekends sounds sweet to me.
These arent opinions on 3 links, just opinions on opinions....so my suit is on now so blast away if your opinion justifies that.
John,
I completely agree on the spring softness thing.

By the way, your springs work fantastic in the front. With their rate, balanced with the rear 300-360's it's nearly perfectly balanced. Firm, but balanced. I had to get used to it driving somewhat like a leafer, but it works quite well. On road braking and extreme fore/aft angle braking were greatly improved without the weight shifting. Thanks for making them.
j

Doug,

I'm here lurking in the background.

Rich

ok, heres where I'm at. I've got this thing, a three link. I could drill the bushings and like it, I'm sure of that. However, I still have this three link unused! The only draw back I see now (strengh I guess is not an issue after this discussion) is that removing the 3rd member is a pain in the ass! So heres what I'm thinkin. Let the 3 link collect dust and thow it on when I address my CV/axle issue, then when I go to the trouble to tear everything down, I'll just do it at that time.
I also need to start thinking of some new shocks for the front and rear. I've got the brake lines taken care of, however, I am yet to change the front or rear shocks from the OME. In the front I've got 764's, so I'd like a shock that does not unseat these. In the rear I have the springs retained, so I want a shock that will stretch them a bit. Overall lift is 764/762 with 2 inch spacers. Let me know what you guys think.

Retain the front upper spring untill you install the 3 link...then get the right replacement spring/shock set that you will need with the 3 link. What ever you put on now will not be appropriate for the future 3 link install.

Originally posted by rhills
Doug,

I'm here lurking in the background.

Rich

How's the glass tub coming, or the waggy 44 front? We know you've been busy since it's been so quiet.

Johnathan

I agree with roverwrench about liking and disliking the 3-link. I've asked four people two with the 3-link and two w/o the 3-link. The first two love it, and the other two said completely the opposite

I still say there is nothing wrong with the sg 3 link but it all comes down to how much front travel you can use.

If you got a D90 or 110 then shiat yea. Cause on these rigs you can run big (biggish :flipoff2:) tyres without ridiculously high COG (meaning lift) and you can still clear the guards with the front tyres with 14in travel shocks at max articulation.

Trying to get the same thing on a disco or rangie running 33s or so then you will sacrifice way to much stability because you end up with a high cog from the roof and the lift required to clear the tyres at 14in of front travel. OR you end up with something with not much lift running very stiff springs with very limited up travel and lots of uncontrolled droop (unattached drop away springs) which gives the same unstable result.

What is anyone going to drive in a rangie or disco with 14in front travel that carnt be driven with 10in front travel except a ramp or some setup poser shot.

10in of front travel in any rig is a lot of front travel.

Sam

You don't have to die just part it out! Actually just trade swap me diffs :eek:

Christian