i could'nt miss an obvious mistake in the TTC coverage on the November issue of the FOUR WHEELER - in the mudpit i made a longer distance than JR's bronco, as clearly indicated in the
chart itself.

inspite of that fact, i was ranked lower than JR!!

simple case of an obvious mistake which would'nt have mattered much, except for the fact that the extra 2-3 points would have moved me one place forward in the OVERALL RANKING as i argued
more than once efore the FOUR WHEELER officials.

besides, what was that remark in the "frame twister" part about me making a very good time but since starting to whinch immediately, i got a lot of penalty points....... why would that count if we were not warned or even told ANYTHING about it BEFORE entering the obstacle??

well, i would'nt expect things like THAT to be corrected, but i certainly DO expect that clear & obvious mistakes like the mudpit
mistake would be corrected and published, especially when the overall outcome should also be changed, as a result.

BTW - does anybody REALLY think that the Frog deserved 10th (and last) place on engineering?!?:confused: :confused:(on the other hand, i got nothing to say about the ride & drive results...
:))

I was very surprised with the 10th place on the Engineering.

I think the Frog is a work of art, but then again I have only seen pictures.

Don't worry about it Barry....it was still fun eh?

10th in engineering:eek: , that is shocking, it is obvious that your rig required quite a bit more work than some of the others (Dean's K30 and Jess's Toyota) sorry to hear about the unfortunate missjudging but hey just look back at the good times you had while in the big TTC

its fourwheeler magazine, i just wanna know if they give extra points for the use of extremely tall lift blocks in the engineering section?

More chrome would have surely gotten you more engineering points... Haven't you seen mall-wheeling's cover trucks, except for the TTC trucks?:D

Hell it's just a magazine anyway.. every competitor there has a bad-ass rig that every last one of them should be proud of, and I bet everyone here admires.

:beer: for you man!

i too was shocked at the 10th place finish for engineering. i have not see your rig in person so i can not say for sure what i thought it should have placed though.

dude.although i wasn't there i do too have to say your shit was OFF THE HOOK ....:eek:
not taking anything away from any of the guys but your rig is deffinatley better then a 10 in engineering....:mad:
oh well ya know how politics are...

hey dude .how's the MISHBUCHA in israel ..i hope yall are handling all of the craziness okay.i hope one day there will some sort of peace out there so i can visit my homeland for the first time...but for some strange reason i really dont think there will ever be peace...

oh well back wheelin...they screwed ya dude.....

hey barry...did you get the frog shipped back? sorry about the judging. A lot of people know how I feel about TTC (it's :rainbow:)

just think about the new friends and the fun as previously stated and tell the judges and rule makers to f-ck off. :D

From what I have seen and read on here I was always surprised that you got 10th in engineering :confused:

Re this scoring mistake. I almost hate to bring this up because I love JR's Bronco but if the scoring was incorrect, would the correction have any impact on who finished 1st??

What was the judges reaction when you pointed out the error at the event?

in 97 they gave best engineering to a leaf sprung pseudo jeep.
Geby's 4 wheel indy suspended Jeep is so far beyond that it is sick

Originally posted by mj
in 97 they gave best engineering to a leaf sprung pseudo jeep.
Geby's 4 wheel indy suspended Jeep is so far beyond that it is sick

You have to think that they are a little biased towards what pays their bills--advertising $. So bolt on crap is going to obviously get the nod before any custom fabbed work no matter how great it is. I don't pay attention to top truck much anymore, but it seemed that way a few years back.

My personal opinion was that the Frog deserved better than 10th in engineering. I very much liked how it was built.

As for the mud bog, I was in the engine bay of my truck trying to figure out why it wouldn't run, so no help there. :(

Guys.... I will just say it again.

TTC is NOT a competition. The magazine chooses who they want to place. TTC should be considered entertainment more than anything elses.

Scores really don't matter that much, they didn't want you to place high, they had a few predetermined people they wanted to place high. Now, if those rigs broke down, you could have expected to get ranked higher, since they would have had no choice.

Funny.... I remember hearing similar things at the last NWRCA. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Daniel
barry sorry about the mud pit scores ... the best that can happen ... the most your going to get is an apolgy...

Nope, he won't get an apology either.

Funny that now that it's over people are saying it isn't a comp so who cares. Few months back all people could talk about were how many PBB people made it to TTC. My opinion is this, you got what you got and that is more than most so stop your fawkin whinning.

Originally posted by Brawler
Funny that now that it's over people are saying it isn't a comp so who cares. Few months back all people could talk about were how many PBB people made it to TTC. My opinion is this, you got what you got and that is more than most so stop your fawkin whinning.

Actually.. I never said it was a competition. Its just a magazine run dog and pony show to raise the magazines sales. ;)

He has a valid bitch though... its billed as a competition. So.. as a competition, if there is an error in scoring it SHOULD be corrected. Personally.. I don't care. I think most went out there to have fun and didn't care about the score, at least of the people on PBB.

I would say he has a little more right to be pissed than others do. He didn't exactly thrpw a little gas in it and drive it across the street. We all say-Oh, it was just for fun, but if it were us we'd be screamin as well. I don't blame you for being frustrated, Frog. Go take it out on a rock and a few of its buddies, then go drink a beer.
We also keep telling ourselves that it is gay and stupid, while the whole time holding our breaths thinking "Pick me! Pick me!!!"


Here is my biggest bitch about the TTC. Was it NOT origionally put together for DAILY DRIVEN street legal rigs that could start every morning, drop the kids off at school, drive to work, pick up the kids and some groceries, go run the country's hardest trail, and still drive to work the next morning? That is why I'm pissed about the whole thing. Maybe they should change the title to "The Big Axles and a Motor Competition.":confused:

Originally posted by the frog

BTW - does anybody REALLY think that the Frog deserved 10th (and last) place on engineering?!?:confused: :confused:(on the other hand, i got nothing to say about the ride & drive results...
:))

I thought you would have done better there, but that event has always been a bit overstuffed with horse shit

Originally posted by LordRatner


I thought you would have done better there, but that event has always been a bit overstuffed with horse shit


That publication as a whole, has always been overstuffed with horse shit...

Barry, mistake or not.... would you do it again?????

Hey Barry. A similar thing happened to Abba in the braking. He said at the finish there were cones beyond where he stopped yet he still got 10th? Doesn't add up, IMO

Originally posted by Curtis
Hey Barry. A similar thing happened to Abba in the braking. He said at the finish there were cones beyond where he stopped yet he still got 10th? Doesn't add up, IMO

The cones were to mark the end of the runway. :D

:D

Hey Barry, had not heard from you in a while. Glad you are back.
About the mud pit. It was just a magazine typographical error. Remember when I got the score banner after the awards ceremony? Well it list you as being 5th and me as 6th. Besides, the mag. list the feet traveled so there should not be any question. Do you remember Jack (my spotter) and me switching places in the 'trap? We didn't but the mag. says we did. Magazines always make mistakes. Big deal.:rolleyes: (at least in the USA).
As far as the frame twister goes, we were all given scoring updates when we got to ttc. On the second page it reads "
You will be assesed points for stopping(1), backing up (2), when someone exits your vehicle (5), winching or using a jack (20 points for each vehicle lenght), and per cones hit (10). "

Travis Waldher: :flipoff2: nice opinion, backed up by nothing. Have you been to one?

Joe_W: No. It would not have made a difference.

For all you jackasses that think ttc is :rainbow:, quit reading ttc threads.

Originally posted by JR

For all you jackasses that think ttc is :rainbow:, quit reading ttc threads.

yeah, or John is gonna open a french horn case full of whoop ass!

:flipoff2:

Originally posted by WOLF359


The cones were to mark the end of the runway. :D

:D

OMG!! I'm seriously LOL :D :D :D

Originally posted by JParuBob


yeah, or John is gonna open a french horn case full of whoop ass!

:flipoff2:



















:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

Not trying to say that TTC is gay, cause I know it is not. And I have been trying to get in it for over 2 year:eek: And I just sent off my stuff for this year (in hopes of getting it) But, I have heard stories about how they judge at TTC. I am very good friends for Kevin Kaylin. He ran the Siberian Scrambler in 2000. Anyways he was telling me about how HeePee TIMED out in the Tank Trap. And they added on time just so he would win. Because, they did not like the Sniper. I mean (going back to 2000) how does a CJ-7 with a V-8, 60's, and 39.5" boggers beat a Sniper in Engineering? That is just some stuff I have heard about the event. But, I still like it!

And to the frog, your rig is BAD! I really liked it. As I did all the rigs that was in TTC.... Like White Knight said, would ya'll go back and do it again?

Frank :usa:

Did you expect anything better from a glitter magazine (no offense to camo). Four wheeler is all about getting people to buy bolt on parts. TTC is nothing more than a marketing gimmick for the magazine.

Originally posted by YJ_Swamper
10th in engineering:eek: , that is shocking, it is obvious that your rig required quite a bit more work than some of the others (Dean's K30 and Jess's Toyota) sorry to hear about the unfortunate missjudging but hey just look back at the good times you had while in the big TTC

Thanks for comparing my truck to a guy who bolted on a lift and threw one ton axles on Chevy.:rolleyes:

The only reason I didn't feel bad about 9th in engineering is because the Frog got last. :D I never a spent a lot of time checking the truck out, but I thought it was cool. I think they should explain the criteria for the engineering. It would probably be interesting.

Originally posted by twistedmetal
Here is my biggest bitch about the TTC. Was it NOT origionally put together for DAILY DRIVEN street legal rigs that could start every morning, drop the kids off at school, drive to work, pick up the kids and some groceries, go run the country's hardest trail, and still drive to work the next morning?

I couldn't care less what kind of vehicles are let in. But, it's kind of moronic for them to require "street legality", when clearly most of the machines in there would fail a visible inspection from any State Trooper on a routine traffic stop.

TEX

It's all about selling magazines and pushing their advertisers (Jeep & Bronco) parts make up the most of it of course they will be biast. Anyway you can tell they dont really care...remember when the canadian van was in it and he got the farthest distance award (since he wrote it down in kilometers) I think he got a set of tires then they realized their mistake and gave the actual winner something not even close to the value of the tires.:rolleyes: Frog the just jacked you in engineering because no bolt on jeep parts could work with your ride ;)

Originally posted by 77Blaza
Frog the just jacked you in engineering because no bolt on jeep parts could work with your ride ;)

People like bolt on jeep parts?

CJ

Frog,

One of my beefs to the judges is that scoring wasn't available during the event to let participants point out any potential errors. I'm sorry to hear it burned you.

As for Cory's ride. Don't knock it, it ran damn well. He drove the p*ss out of it, wasn't afraid of dents or launching it into the air (did you see him enter Tank Trap #5? - rear tires hit the water first!), drove it to town every day, and it held together ('cept for a front driveshaft at the end of the Rubicon, where lots of people suffered the same damage). And he didn't lose a driveshaft backing off the trailer (!) It may be simple and old technology by today's standards but you can't argue that it is dialed in for what it is, and was driven by a guy who knows his truck.

--Rob (this issue *still* hasn't made it here to the island)

Originally posted by ryeguy
And he didn't lose a driveshaft backing off the trailer (!) I

LOL Barry got last beacuse he blew his drive shaft.
Just kidding, There was a lot of talk about that in Camp, most of the guys there felt you were robbed on the engeringering contest

Originally posted by JR


Travis Waldher: :flipoff2: nice opinion, backed up by nothing. Have you been to one?


Nope haven't been to TTC. I just know what happens when there are special interests (magazine, advertisers, etc) involved at any "competition". Fact is, unless the people tabulating the scores are from an outside firm/group that have no interest in the magazine (in this case) the scores to some degree will reflect who teh magazine wants to win. Rules will change, etc in little ways as necessary to reflect that. I've just seen it happen several times.

Now.. TTC in general? I think its cool, nothing like watching guys (where there any girls competing?) try to get through a course in "X" time at all costs. Excellent entertainment value. And to the winner nothing really more than bragging rights.

Myself.. I go more for the... we may not win.. but dammit! we are going to have fun, and in the end, one way or another. We (team I have competed with) will make sure the crowd never forgets us. whats more fun? Placing 1st? or being remembered and having people looking for you the next time around? ;)

Originally posted by Travis Waldher


Nope haven't been to TTC. I just know what happens when there are special interests (magazine, advertisers, etc) involved at any "competition". Fact is, unless the people tabulating the scores are from an outside firm/group that have no interest in the magazine (in this case) the scores to some degree will reflect who teh magazine wants to win. Rules will change, etc in little ways as necessary to reflect that. I've just seen it happen several times.



The judges are past winners. :rolleyes:

I would of placed the Frog at 6th or 7th in engineering, it kinda looks like a junk yard wars creation. The K30 wasn't engineered at all, but holly hell that guy was drive'n like a nut. Did you see the picture of him on the obstacle course. The truck's almost standing on it's rear bumper. How can you place .5 point from 2nd with a lift and lockers??? Driver skill. No low gears, portal axles or $400 coil overs. Wait till you see the video, past videos show killer riggs being driven like a little girls. You'll see why people placed the way they did.

Originally posted by welndmn


The judges are past winners. :rolleyes:

I never said anything about the Judges. I was talking about the people that add up the judges score cards to determine winners.

Originally posted by Travis Waldher


I never said anything about the Judges. I was talking about the people that add up the judges score cards to determine winners.
The judges do that

I thought it was very cool that you came over from Israel for the event. Next time I'm in Kiryat Gat I'll look you up.
Cprd

TTC.:rainbow:

Never seen any of those rigs in person but I will tell you that the Toy and K30. And the other "less" built vehicles are way better than the Frog, Fatcity or Raptor bullshit.

Sure those rigs are cool and well built for pretty much single purpose wheeling.

those others are the real wheelers. Alaska Assasin and I have our personal differences but I have looked at his Heep. Function is the best word to describe it. Anyone could mimmich his Rig with a bit of time and effort along with a good dose of practical experience. That is what people want to see. Not some some ready made, mega bucks tube thing that could not carry a evenings worth of camping gear or even the cooler to haul the fish back from the lake!

Oh and that airborn stuff is common place up here here are a pair of picks to prove it.

http://www.northern4x4.com/ak-extreme/images/vehicles/badco2.jpg

Frame off restoration on it's first run........

Frogger your getting screwed but it is by a system that has NO real credibility.

Thanks Alaska ZJ. That place on Ruby is a great spot to catch some air lol. My brother all most went over backwards there:eek: Nice pic by the way.... Kurt did a nice Job on that Jeep.

Differences?:rolleyes:

Frank

Originally posted by azk5
I would of placed the Frog at 6th or 7th in engineering, it kinda looks like a junk yard wars creation. The K30 wasn't engineered at all, but holly hell that guy was drive'n like a nut. Did you see the picture of him on the obstacle course. The truck's almost standing on it's rear bumper. How can you place .5 point from 2nd with a lift and lockers??? Driver skill. No low gears, portal axles or $400 coil overs. Wait till you see the video, past videos show killer riggs being driven like a little girls. You'll see why people placed the way they did.

I didn't see anyone drive like a little girl. I saw one guy drive like a little french horn player... but he did ok. :D

Cory, drive like a nut? Absolutely. He's an excellent driver. He drives like that all the time. You should see the Red K30 today. He rolled it a month after TTC and destroyed it.

Yes I saw the picture of him on the obstacle course almost standing on it's rear bumper. I also saw two or three other guys do that too, only higher. That just happened to be the pic they used in the mag. Doing that was a mistake. It cost him time. It cost me time when I did it. Mrtwstr drove the course smarter and finished that event better than anyone.

I don't think you'll see anyone driving like a girl in this years footage.

Originally posted by azk5
I would of placed the Frog at 6th or 7th in engineering, it kinda looks like a junk yard wars creation.

I agree. Half of the engineering is how it looks, quality of build, neatness of welds, fitment on panels, etc. This is a huge deal in the Mini Indy competition for SAE. Not only does it have to work but it has to look sweet enough to fawk all day long. :D

This is an interesting, um, "rant" for lack of a better word... first, let's break down what you said and then a little reply for each one..

"The K30 and Toy are better than the others"

This is obviously a matter of personal opinion. Obviously you weren't the sole person in charge of picking all 10 vehicles, so your opinion must not matter that much to the magazine. I'm of the mind that pretty much every vehicle that has made it to TTC must be quite well constructed, otherwise it wouldn't be there.

"Sure those rigs are cool and well built for pretty much single purpose wheeling."

And Jesse's Yota wasn't? his name is mudtruk on the board for christ's sake. I don't know about you, but most of the rigs I've seen are built towards one certain type of wheeling or another, for the most part. You can find a fairly good multipurpose wheeler, but most people build their vehicles to what they happen to have around them, for the most part.

"That is what people want to see"

I'd have to say that most people that vote want to see rigs that they don't get to see everyday. I can drive around and see a 4 inch lifted jeep with 33s any day of the week. What I don't get to see every day is a custom tube framed bronco with custom portal axles. And that is the sort of stuff that sales magazines, otherwise you wouldn't see them in there.

Now, maybe you agree with me, and maybe you don't. I don't really care either way. It seems to me that you have a very narrow way of looking at things.

Originally posted by Travis Waldher


I never said anything about the Judges. I was talking out the side of my ass

:flipoff2:

Right on Wolf, thanks for the compliment.


Oh and that airborn stuff is common place up here here are a pair of picks to prove it.
I thought this was about the Frog getting screwed and not some jack off showing off his "driving skills", looks like he hit a piss puddle at 30mph, talk about:rainbow:
As far as the Frog getting screwed, no, JR is absolutley right, it is nuthing more than an error in the mag. The final scores are correct. The low score on engineering I would blame on it being judged in the U.S. For a small example of what I'm talking about, there is a hydraulic ram on the back of it for the rear steer that is bigger than most of our air tanks, the thing is frickin' huge. That might be the shit in Isreal but not here. I'm definatly not saying there is anything wrong with the Frog, it is an awesome rig that works bitchin', it's just diffrent!!! Then you throw in a couple judges that think if you don't build your rig just like his Samurai ... oops that slipped out... then it aint shit and you're gonna get a low score.

Ok lets clear some stuff up here.. Two of the judges are contributing writers to the mag Ned and Jimmy, and the other three are just volenterrs.. None of the judges have anything to do with which rigs wins based on there opionon.. They all keep there score cards and the points and scores are taled based on that. trust me I know im in the judges camp when this goes on. I agree some of the rules need to be more clarified. And another thing the public ,you and me,pic the ten rigs that make it to TTC not the mag. And about enginering if JR,s rig would have had bad welds and things binding when it flexed out it would have scored low ... my point is ,a prety much stock chevy thats clean can score as good as a high dollar rig.

4th or 5th? Who cares? Its not anywhere near first! I would think that you would have more right to be upset if you had built that damn thing instead of buying it. Besides, from the pictures in the mags of it flexing I am not surprised at the engineering score. That thing had the worse flex steer I have ever seen which is evidence of numerous other problems that I am sure I would notice the second I climbed under it. Haven't seen it for sure but that is what all the signs are pointing to. Just because it is built from the ground up doesnt mean it is built well!!!

Hear that John, my rig is better than yours.

If you want to trade maybe we can work something out, say your rig plus a few grand for mine?:D

Originally posted by jeeper111
4th or 5th? Who cares? Its not anywhere near first! I would think that you would have more right to be upset if you had built that damn thing instead of buying it. Besides, from the pictures in the mags of it flexing I am not surprised at the engineering score. That thing had the worse flex steer I have ever seen which is evidence of numerous other problems that I am sure I would notice the second I climbed under it. Haven't seen it for sure but that is what all the signs are pointing to. Just because it is built from the ground up doesnt mean it is built well!!!

I don't do this often, but I have to say that your response is pretty shitty:mad:

I don't know much about you other than every post I have seen from you is derogotory and degrading. It seems like you like to talk shit about anything you can knowing that you will never meet these people. If you are such an expert on "everything" please post your qualifications and pics of stuff that you built that nobody else can.

Maybe Jeeper111 can enter TTC next year. :flipoff2:

Sure I would enter, if you want to see pics check out my link.

Originally posted by jeeper111
4th or 5th? Who cares? Its not anywhere near first! I would think that you would have more right to be upset if you had built that damn thing instead of buying it. Besides, from the pictures in the mags of it flexing I am not surprised at the engineering score. That thing had the worse flex steer I have ever seen which is evidence of numerous other problems that I am sure I would notice the second I climbed under it. Haven't seen it for sure but that is what all the signs are pointing to. Just because it is built from the ground up doesnt mean it is built well!!!



http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/uploads/jeep111.jpg

Haven't we all seen the pictures? I still don't see any pictures with tires on.

Originally posted by jeeper111
...which is evidence of numerous other problems that I am sure I would notice the second I climbed under it. Haven't seen it for sure but that is what all the signs are pointing to.

Thanks for that informed opinion. But since you haven't climbed under it, and didn't see it, and never witnessed anything, and are only flapping your keyboard to hear yourself type, I'll take you opinion for what it's worth. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by jeeper111
Sure I would enter, if you want to see pics check out my link...

I love the I woulda, coulda, if only I'd been there... kind of post. :mad:

If you were there and competed, i would respect your opinion. Since you weren't and didn't, I won't.

By the way, that is a cool looking truck (really). Hope you get it done soon so you can quit taking about what you are going to do, and start doing it.

Tim.

Originally posted by twistedmetal

Here is my biggest bitch about the TTC. Was it NOT origionally put together for DAILY DRIVEN street legal rigs that could start every morning, drop the kids off at school, drive to work, pick up the kids and some groceries, go run the country's hardest trail, and still drive to work the next morning? That is why I'm pissed about the whole thing. Maybe they should change the title to "The Big Axles and a Motor Competition.":confused:

It's voted on by the readers.
Do you vote for daily drivers, I doubt many others do either.

Originally posted by mudtruck44


Thanks for comparing my truck to a guy who bolted on a lift and threw one ton axles on Chevy.:rolleyes:

The only reason I didn't feel bad about 9th in engineering is because the Frog got last. :D I never a spent a lot of time checking the truck out, but I thought it was cool. I think they should explain the criteria for the engineering. It would probably be interesting.

no offense, i didnt mean to disgrace you AWSOME truck by comparing it to the K-30, i was just saying that by the looks of it it "SEEMS" that he has put quite a bit of time into it, not saying that you havent, i was just refering to the custom part, didnt mean to piss in your cherios:D

Meanwhile, Froggy is laughing at us as we argue on his thread.
Here's to you Barry!:beer:

He probably is :D

Every comp has "mistakes" or "differences" . That's part of competition and judging. There will always be someone that is not happy- be it mud bogs, rock crawls , whatever.......

TTC is cool. We all think so. It is definately to sell mags but that;s also why everyone wants to get in it. It gathers some pretty descent rigs and drivers and you get to be in the limelite..... which is fun . You get to check out other very cool rigs and see where you fit in.

The bitching is a waste of time.

Take it for what it is.

From the posts of all competitors , everyone had a blast, met some good people , tested themselves and their rigs and got some North American coverage.

Doesn't sound so bad to me....................

Originally posted by JR
Meanwhile, Froggy is laughing at us as we argue on his thread.
Here's to you Barry!:beer:

$hit, man, you got me!!!

seriously, i am laughing but not at you guys, with you.
i started it because i felt bad about things, but now, once i got the PPB's simpathy, i'm relieved....:) :p ;)

hello to you too, Theresa, long time no posting - my fault, i'm just a good for nothing lazy bum which constantly neglects his PBB duties:D

i understand that mistakes like that ocuur, including the one which shows i made a longer distance and in the same time ranks me lower, and i also know that there allways will a thousand explanation for why this mistake did not really/eventually change anything, bla bla bla, but it still manages to drive me mad and say things i probably would have been better off not saying, but what what can i do???

sorry for nor visiting the board more often, due to the fact that i have to work harder to gather money for next year SUPERCRAWL(i just cannot come for this year's event)..:D :D

as to the rest of you guys Tim, Rob, tj-7, Nolen, sillyneck, Daniel, Jessie,weldmn and and all the others - it's allways a pleasure reading your stuff on the board, and yes, if i had to do it again, i certainly would!

BTW - Toby and Rob, what about the video footage you promissed to send me ?!? i'm still waiting;)

jeeper111 i have seen the pics of your pile, and it looks like a cobbled together peice of shit, nice link brackets haha, so before u make fun of someones ride maybe u should learn to fab u fucking idiot:rolleyes:

Originally posted by the frog

BTW - Toby and Rob, what about the video footage you promissed to send me ?!? i'm still waiting;)

I'm still waiting for Richard to finish editing it!

--Rob

Originally posted by ryeguy


I'm still waiting for Richard to finish editing it!

--Rob

no $hit, man!!

tell you what - cut his beer supply and you'll
have it in notime:D :D :D

just do'nt forget me - i'm sitting here waiting for only two things -
your video and the bio/chemo missiles of sadam hussein....:flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

hey frog, you gonna be at the supercrawl ?

is the frog still in the states ?

- jack

Originally posted by morpheus
hey frog, you gonna be at the supercrawl ?

is the frog still in the states ?

- jack

no, unfortunately i'm not.

i loaded the beast on the ship in Long Beach shortly after TTC.
as if god did'nt want me to be in the SUPERCRAWL, i got
Craig Stumph's invitation only a few days AFTER the ship was allready on it's way back home and there was nothing i could do about it:eek: :(

so, i'm now doing my best to be ready for next year's SUPERCRAWL, including getting as much sponsorships as possible.

after having a taste of American events and offroad opportunities,
i have no intention of letting another invitaion be unaccepted.

see you next year;)

bummer man ... best of luck to ya :D

- jack

no, unfortunately i'm not.
That sucks, Barry. I was lookin forward to seeing you again. I'm sure you're gonna miss a good show. Anyway it was great meeting you and hope to see again sometime somewhere. I'm not sure if I'm the Toby you're talking about but the 15 minutes or so of video I got from a friend is pretty lame, wouldn't be worth the shipping. Sorry.


my point is ,a prety much stock chevy thats clean can score as good as a high dollar rig.
That totally sucks!!!!! No offense Slim, but if you're saying a clean pretty much stock truck can score as high in ENGINEERING as a so called "high dollar" rig I think that sucks. Two reasons, If you take a pretty much stock rig and bolt 1ton stuff under it, what the hell did you engineer? Nuthing, the factory did it for you and that should not count. Second, I gueas I look at things a little diffrent than most on this subject but I don't like calling them "high dollar", to me there just "High Work" and "High Maintenence"! The whole "High Dollar" thing pisses me off, some people work hard building their rigs and some work hard to have their rigs built, some do both. The bottom line is it is not the money that got you there it's the hard work and the dedication. If you take the "high Dollar" out and add "high Work" to the statement i think you will get verry diffrent responses. Bottom line, engineering is custom work! (what GM, Ford or whoever engineered DOES NOT COUNT) You engineer/design something then build it, if it works - great, if it don't - try something else. But that's just my "High Dollar" opinion:flipoff2:

[i]. Anyways he was telling me about how HeePee TIMED out in the Tank Trap. And they added on time just so he would win. Because, they did not like the Sniper. I mean (going back to 2000) how does a CJ-7 with a V-8, 60's, and 39.5" boggers beat a Sniper in Engineering? That is just some stuff I have heard about the event. But, I still like it!


Frank :usa: [/B]

I remember reading this and I could not believe it..... I rode with Sam about 3 mo. after reading this and asked him about the score. He wasnt shure how he won the engineering catagory, over a built from scratch capable rig.

Dan

That totally sucks!!!!! No offense Slim, but if you're saying a clean pretty much stock truck can score as high in ENGINEERING as a so called "high dollar" rig I think that sucks. Two reasons, If you take a pretty much stock rig and bolt 1ton stuff under it, what the hell did you engineer? Nuthing, the factory did it for you and that should not count. Second, I gueas I look at things a little diffrent than most on this subject but I don't like calling them "high dollar", to me there just "High Work" and "High Maintenence"! The whole "High Dollar" thing pisses me off, some people work hard building their rigs and some work hard to have their rigs built, some do both. The bottom line is it is not the money that got you there it's the hard work and the dedication. If you take the "high Dollar" out and add "high Work" to the statement i think you will get verry diffrent responses. Bottom line, engineering is custom work! (what GM, Ford or whoever engineered DOES NOT COUNT) You engineer/design something then build it, if it works - great, if it don't - try something else. But that's just my "High Dollar" opinion:flipoff2: [/B][/QUOTE]



Toby I just mean if JR,s rig was put togther porly it would have scored alot lower even know it is enginered great,I wasnt happy with the order they placed some of the rigs in enginering but im not a judge. I just extract and help where needed. And yes I agree some judges do like sami,s

Buy the way nice work on that suburban you converted the live axle into with the coil overs






:)

jeeper111 i have seen the pics of your pile, and it looks like a cobbled together peice of shit, nice link brackets haha, so before u make fun of someones ride maybe u should learn to fab u fucking idiot

blah blah blah - At least he's building his own stuff, not just buying someone else's buggy from last year, and paying a shop to put it back together for him. His welds may be booger, and his axles may be heavy, but when your D300 gears explode all over the rocks, we'll see who laughs then.


sucka!

hahahha u bring that big pile of no front locker shit down anytime after next friday and we will c whose the sucka, and ur boy has spent more money on parts than most peoples rigs, and then hes just butchering them up, and sorry i doubt my trick little atlas 2 32 splined dana 300 is gonna break in a 2900 pound rig, so like i said pring u cobbled together peice of shit over anytime

hey wait a minute!!

was'nt this thread supposed to be about how i was screwed??

you guys are robbing my glory.....:flipoff2: :D ;)

Thanks Slim, I've got a set of Kings in stock waiting for your chevy...:smokin:

thanks elf.; Yeah those welds are not very pretty buit those were the first welds that I ever really did and I wouldn't leave them there if I thought that they didnt penetrate or that they weren't strong. Since then I have gotton alot better at making welds that are strong and pretty. Just takes some practice!! When I get this truck done I will be happy to bring it to the trails and stomp all over your piece-o-shit. HAHAHAHA And by the way I can tell suspension problems without climbing under a rig and if you cant then you are stupid!!!:flipoff2:

P.S. Elf will kick your ass. I personally guarantee that he can drive better than 95 percent of the people out there and probably more than that and I think he is destined to be a winner in the comps. I know this because he was my spotter for years and he will be sorely missed when I get my rig back together I am sure. Dont dog on him just because he hasn't gotton the ultimate rig together yet. He is working on it just like everybody else bitch!!:flipoff2:

I am not going to respond to the dipshit comments.

I think the Frog got screwed. But as I said it is by a system that is so inflated to sell thier rag that it does not matter AT ALL.

As for the people picking the participants? Bullshit. Just like Florida Elections are not rigged either, RIGHT?

I buy and read the rags, but I keep the source in perspective and don't take half of the puke coming out of them as gospel.

Frog, I think your rig is cool and I really like it. Just like I think that the bronco thing is cool, just not what I want to see.

Taking a existing vehicle and modifying it in such a way that a motivated and intelligent Wheeler could adapt and use some of the idea's on such a rig. This is what I want and like.

Here is a GREAT example and I hope he does not mind if I use him as such (Brook if you do, :flipoff2: )

bgreen on this board has a killer Chevy that is anything but stock. take a good look at his vehicle. Nothing is all that spectacular in itself, but the culmination of all those things makes for one unique and truly capable vehicle. I think he could easily make a run for the top TTC, but I am not sure if it interest's him or not.

Here is his website. http://www.alaskaoffroad.com

The thing about Cory's Chevy is its simple, it worked and he managed to stomp our shit into the dirt, so it don't really matter. Now does it?

Toby how much for the kings ? I think its funny Almost everone talks shit about TTC and the mag, but we all cant wait to read it, And I cant wait till TTC 03 to meat all the new people and check out all the rigs. I guess will all have to wait and see who gets screwed next year. :)

I think its funny Almost everone talks shit about TTC and the mag, but we all cant wait to read it,
Hell yeah!! You notice how all the shit talkers are the ones who have never been there? Those who have been there may have a few complaints or questions but you don't hear them talking shit. Lets talk about the Kings over a :beer: I guarantee the price will come down!!!

I will come down to your shop next week ,ive been wanting to check it out anyway. Maybe I could get your autograph?:flipoff2:

Originally posted by mrtwstr

I'm not sure if I'm the Toby you're talking about but the 15 minutes or so of video I got from a friend is pretty lame, wouldn't be worth the shipping. Sorry.



ofcourse u are the Toby i think you are and i'm talking about.
u probably forgot, but a few weeks ago i asked everyone here
to send me whatever footage they got, and you said you were going to the Rubicon and once you were back you were supposed to check a video you had'nt had the time to watch and send it to me.

nevermind - if i were to say such a thing, it would have been a result of my old age, but you?!?:D :D shame on you.... ;)

thanks anyway, and if you or anybody else got some o.k. stuff
of me at the TTC, please send it.

see you when i see you.

I think it time this BS ended ..If you are going to whine about your finishing order maybe you shouldn't enter again..it is over with and done time to move on and forget about and QUIT WHINING IT"S OVER AND DONE WITH..

Originally posted by hy_desert_4wheeler
I think it time this BS ended ..If you are going to whine about your finishing order maybe you shouldn't enter again..it is over with and done time to move on and forget about and QUIT WHINING IT"S OVER AND DONE WITH..

hey cockknocker, if i'm not mistaken, you can only be in it once.

Originally posted by ryeguy
Frog,
One of my beefs to the judges is that scoring wasn't available during the event to let participants point out any potential errors.

Rob, i think this is probably the most important lesson from this
TTC - i have no doubt in my mind that in EVERY event, the organizers/judges MUST
give the opportunity to the competitors to comment and appeal
allmost immediately after each and every course.

people are working very hard to get to these events and invest a lot of effort in order to do well, and the procedure of challenging bad calls and - as in my case - simple mistakes, must be an inherent part of the event.

i have no knowledge about the events in America, but i believe that every significant event allows the competitors to file their appeals ON TIME and on site.

i know that is the case in the events here in Israel, and i hope that the Four Wheeler people will mend this defect in the coming TTCs.

correct me if i'm wrong.