Hi all.

I am currently fiddling with a solid axle swap on the front of my 87 Pathfinder, and have been going round and round on what the best option will be for the room I have under the vehicle and how it will behave doing 60 for hours on end. At this point I am planing to use 12” travel shocks and coils and while I want it to work well, will need to find a point somewhere between acceptable on and off road manners.

I have searched around the board and on the net but there seems to be fairly limited info on front link style suspensions. I have read through “god of suspension” and while there is a lot of good info there I am still umming and ah-ing on a few things.

So, I am hoping that some of you that have been through this before could impart some of your experience this way.

With the space I have and the shape of the chassis I have come up with the following

http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/~pkmunger/pirate/unequal_not_parallel2.jpg

If the above picture is no good try this, http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/~pkmunger/pirate/unequal_not_parallel2.jpg

The unequal length arms have been positioned so that each axle-housing bush will only need to compress 1/8” for the travel I am planing on (if the housing did not flex). However I am not sure on what sort of anti dive it would have and what potential on or off road manners it would have.

Any ideas, thoughts or concerns (of a techo nature) would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Paul.

Is this @ ride height?

you need to add hard numbers
tire diameter
vertical and horizontal link placement

Pig, yes that is at normal ride height.

MJ, I am not at home at the moment, but these will be close’ish.

Upper arm length = 300mm/11.8"
Lower arm length = 600mm/23.6"
Distance between housing mounts = 160mm/6.3"

The Chassis end of each arm will be jonny jointed.

Left of upper arm = 490mm/19.3"
Right of upper arm = 480mm/18.9"

Left of lower arm = 430mm/17"
Right of upper arm = 341mm/13.4"

(These are all from ground level with the lift I want to run)

Lower housing mount is 80mm/3.1" to the left of the top housing mount when looking at the picture.

Tyres will be around 33x10.5’s

Paul.

i think those are gonna be some freakin short links.

Dallas

I agree, but I am really limited on room to mount the tops links. My saving grace is that I am not after huge travel.

Thinking about the anti dive line of force I've drawn (the Yellow line) what effect will the top and bottom links being different lengths have? I am starting to think that one will produce twice the force (vector wise) as the other. Any thoughts?

Is there also a golden number to be under in regards to axle steering (in degrees??) as the suspension travels. (Same effect as rear steer, but for the front end). I realise that you can correct with the steering wheel but how close to zero is good enough?

Paul.

PS. The numbers I posted before are not 100% but they are close to give you an idea.

are you set on a 5 link design? Why not just throw an old Ford HP D44 or an EB D44 under there and wrist the radius arms? But create a disconnect for them. Or if you're not too concerned with flex, just use leaf springs. Use a Wagoneer D44 ('80 to '90s), and if you want to keep it low, keep the spring under. I use all the travel in my 9012 fronts, so that's around what you're looking for.

I agree. A 3-link would be much easier to fit under there. No need to worry about the top links that way. Search for the Rockstomper threads.

On the wristed link, you could make the upper part of the wristed one telescoping so that you could clamp it with a bolt for street use and that built-in anti-sway bar effect.
Kinda like this:
http://www.vintagebronco.com/coby/twisterarm/

Pathmaker, I thought about going with the D44, but decided to go with a Hilux axle for ease of availability (Australia). I’ve seen pictures of the D44 set-up on Chris James’s truck.

I would like to go with coils (just a personal thing) so that sort of eliminates the leaf option.

Have you guys had any experience with the disconnecting link option on the trail? I thought about it for a while but have heard reports of systems like that being twitchy when on steep down hill situations. (I believe the linked side creates an anti dive effect and forces that side of the vehicle up while the unlinked side stays low causing the vehicle to squat on one corner, pulling the vehicle sidewards).

ErikB, thanks for the link, interesting piece of design. Works darn well in the pics.

Initially I was planing to go with a 3 link arrangement but due to my relatively low lift (and only 33’s), creating an arm suitably long enough to induce minimal twist through the axle housing would hang down to far for my liking (chassis clearance issues). So going for a 5 link I was able to greatly reduced the axle housing twist effect and shorten up (and protect) the lower arms.

So…. 5 link wise, I’m hoping to find out what things people have been bitten by and what effects and how big things like anti dive, axle steering etc etc, will have both on and off the road. Ideally I am trying to get to a point where I can compare numbers from what people have seen and done that works and use that as a guide.

Thanks for your comments,

Paul.

PS. I’ll go have a dig for the “Rockstomper threads”.

PPS. Is there a spell checker in/on here some where?

personally i believe your arms are too short and it wont allow full travel of the shock before binding out.

i read through it and i want to know what type of truck you have? you said that you got a hilux axle due to availability which was a good move, but why didnt you go a bundra coil as you would have got the HP aswell.


NICK

Nic. I’ve got an 87 Pathfinder. HP would have been nice but I don’t have the room for it. The trucks got a 229 Chev V6 and with the Toy pumpkin and starter motor being on the same side there’s just not enough room without going crazy with lift. At the moment it’s got around 30/35mm of body lift so I could get the engine/trans/transfer combo in and with out actually measuring it, it’s looking like needing somewhere around 3 to 4 inches of suspension lift.

I have a concern as well Re. the length of the top links, but I have seen one of Suburban OR (NSW)/Mark H's?? Jeeps in action and the Rubicon arms it runs are only 40 to 50mm longer than what I’m looking at, so with the space restrictions I have, I think I’ll have to suck it and see.

I lifted this picture from http://www.snakeracing.com.au/forum.html and it shows Mark's?? Jeep. If I can get flex like this I will be very happy.

http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/~pkmunger/pirate/hic2.jpg

Paul.

Personally, with low lift (you almost don't need any to run 33's) and looking for LOTS of flex, I would suggest a trailing arm like the bronco's or a Range Rover. I know on the rover's arms you can drill out the bushings ( http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=61187&highlight=drilled+bushings ) wich will make the stock rover front end flex quite well.

The other option is a 3 link like the one offered by safari gard for the land rover, it eliminates all the bind of the trailing arms.

Before the unimog swap I was planning on using Range Rover arms for the SAS on my '95 Hardbody pickup. They would have been acceptable up to the 36" tires I wanted and given adequate articulation with drilled bushings.

is this articulation acceptable?

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=630286

Nice. Sam’s sure got his rigs working well, but I am still leaning towards the 5 link.

While the 3 link option is simpler in design, I’m just not happy having a +36” link/arm that exposed under there. My main problem is getting under the chassis as it tappers inwards just behind the firewall. I can get chassis clearance by using a bent link, but at the expense of ground clearance.

Paul.

PS. I'll be at a 4x4 comp for the weekend, so don't be offended if I don't reply to something for a few days.

can you run the lower links to the outside of the chassis? If it tapers inwards at the firewall you may be able to.

I think the links will be heaps too short.

On my 40series mine are about 980mm and i think they are a bit too short. I am going to get mine out to about 1100mm or more.

Originally posted by coiledbj42


On my 40series mine are about 980mm and i think they are a bit too short. I am going to get mine out to about 1100mm or more.


thats what i was thinking, for alot of flex they need to be longer.


A path finder with a chevy is something different eh.


NICK