1983 jeep cj7 dana 60 front 14 bolt rear.....front has the PSC full width kit, RE1444's ad ballistic fab high steer arms....i really want to run my tie rod from high steer arm to high steer arm, but my pitman arm is hitting the tie rod.....

now should I....
1. put the tie rod back to the stock location on the knuckles and run the drag link to the high steer arm....if i do this i thought i could run hydro assist with the stock mount on the axle....???

2. should i sell off the high steer arms, buy a different set that locates the tie rod behind the axle center line....again running hydro assist this way should be to much of a problem.....

Also my caster is setting at like 12-13 degrees....if i put the tie rod in the stock location i could just leave it and see how it drives and go from there...if i put it behind the axle i will have to shim it up so the arms arent pointing downward.....

Please help me and give me some advice....

Thanks!!

relocate the steering box maybe

I ran a set of hight steer arms - 6.5" kingpin to tierod. Then using an Astro pitman arm it all cleared and steering radius was unaffected. I didn't have to move the steering box. The jeep also had PSCs full width kit.

Another option for you.

Also my caster is setting at like 12-13 degrees.


Fix your castor first.

1983 jeep cj7 dana 60 front 14 bolt rear.....front has the PSC full width kit, RE1444's ad ballistic fab high steer arms....i really want to run my tie rod from high steer arm to high steer arm, but my pitman arm is hitting the tie rod.....

now should I....
1. put the tie rod back to the stock location on the knuckles and run the drag link to the high steer arm....if i do this i thought i could run hydro assist with the stock mount on the axle....???

2. should i sell off the high steer arms, buy a different set that locates the tie rod behind the axle center line....again running hydro assist this way should be to much of a problem.....

Also my caster is setting at like 12-13 degrees....if i put the tie rod in the stock location i could just leave it and see how it drives and go from there...if i put it behind the axle i will have to shim it up so the arms arent pointing downward.....

Please help me and give me some advice....

Thanks!!

I chose the "run the drag link high and tie rod low" solution, although I did drill out the tapered holes and mount the tie rod on top using 7/8" heims.

It was a decent solution, but I do beat on the tie rod quite a bit. It is 1.5" .250 wall DOM, and it gets bent up every year. I have to replace it every two years or so.

It will make hydro assist easier, though, and that is my next planned project for the Jeep.

exactly my plan Pete... think Imma do the Branick Motorsports route and see if those links will bend and give a little better than DOM

I ran a set of hight steer arms - 6.5" kingpin to tierod. Then using an Astro pitman arm it all cleared and steering radius was unaffected. I didn't have to move the steering box. The jeep also had PSCs full width kit.

Another option for you.

do you have pics of this?? ive seen the astro box but i havent ever seen it installed on a jeep....i cant really move the box all that much becuase of the bar that goes across the spring mounts on the PSC kit......

I chose the "run the drag link high and tie rod low" solution, although I did drill out the tapered holes and mount the tie rod on top using 7/8" heims.

It was a decent solution, but I do beat on the tie rod quite a bit. It is 1.5" .250 wall DOM, and it gets bent up every year. I have to replace it every two years or so.

It will make hydro assist easier, though, and that is my next planned project for the Jeep.

exactly my plan Pete... think Imma do the Branick Motorsports route and see if those links will bend and give a little better than DOM

i have a feeling this is the route im going to take and if i dont like it, then ill buy new steer arms that locate the tie rod to the back of the axle....

Try fixing the caster first.

Also, do you have a drop pitman arm? Ditch it, if you do.

Here is my YJ with Ford HP D60, RE 1445's and high steer.


http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg51/yjpep/pic4.jpg
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg51/yjpep/Draglink2.jpg
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg51/yjpep/Draglink1.jpg

that drag link doesnt hit the tie rod at all?? mine just clears when its on level ground, but when the front end flexes and moves forward because of the shackle reversal thats when it hits....

your pitman arm has alot more of a drop in it then mine does mine is just a flat arm...

You blow all your uptravel putting a tie rod on top of a hs arm, unless you re work the entire front frame.

Running the draglink under the hs arm, and the tie rod on top of the stock arm allows better travel, and still has the steering out of harms way.

Try fixing the caster first.

Also, do you have a drop pitman arm? Ditch it, if you do.

Here is my YJ with Ford HP D60, RE 1445's and high steer.


http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg51/yjpep/pic4.jpg
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg51/yjpep/Draglink2.jpg
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg51/yjpep/Draglink1.jpg

Look at the sams offroad pitman arm it's the way to go!

Mike, before you go buying anything, lets step back and look at your setup so that you end up with something that performs instead of trying to put a bandage on it.

From reading your thread in newbie, you purchased a shackle reversal kit that raised the front mount of the leaf springs. This setup has a couple problems, you have found one of them. By rotating the axle (12* castor), you have moved the tie rod and drag link upwards and rearwards compared to where they should be. This rotation is what is leading to your interference issues. Now, you could cut the knuckles loose, rotate them to the correct castor, reweld them and call it a day, but it still isn't going to be right.

The problem you haven't found yet is a handeling issue that comes with running leaf springs without having the eyes parralel to the frame which the stock setup had. Forgetting about shackles for a second here, look at how the spring is going to react to axle movement, instead of the axle pushing up and down, with your present setup, the axle is going to move fore and aft. Add the shackle reversal to the mix and it is going to accentuate the issue making drive line slip a real concern so you don't spear the driveshaft through the transfer case. In addition to driveline, it is going to affect how your heep climbs, instead of allowing the tire to roll up a rock, it's going to want to push the front end backwards and up, not what you want to have happen when trying to climb something steep.

Nothing is free, you can not simply raise the front mounts to gain more approach angle without paying the piper by making a ton of other changes to get it to work properly. Option one is going to be frenching the shackle into the frame dropping the ammount of lift so the spring is again parallel to the frame. Option two is to lower the front spring mount, again bringing the spring back to parallel. By throwing solutions at the drag link interference, you are only treating a symptom, to cure the issue you are going to have to fix what caused the symptom. Do not fool yourself into thinking that just because you bought a kit that it's right, they sell revolver shackles too, and they are far from right. Do some reading about properly setting up leaf springs, if you need more help, post up, but start by searching, hit the jeep talk bible at the top of the page to begin with.

Too many folks these days only deal with links, leafs you sometimes have to look at how you got to your present situation in order to properly diagnose what is going on.

How bout a shorter pitman arm....

awesome man i appreciate it...im going to snap some pictures on sunday so everyone can see my situation....

When i had the stock YJ springs on there the spring was more of a downward angle, however when i put the re1444's it brought them more back to parallel....this is a learning experience for me so i could use all the help i can get.....pics coming on sunday as i just dont have time to drive out to the barn until then...

Or take a look at these offset tie rods.
http://www.pscmotorsports.com/tie-rods-parts-ball-joint-type-rod-ends-c-160_130.html

.

ok...i finally got some pics of my setup....i was thinking that i was going to just put the tie rod back in the stock location, but the tie rod ends that i have seem to be a little small?? i bought the one ton end thats everyone says to buy?? does it look like the hole is wallowed out? because it sure feel like it is

Im probably just gonna shim the front end up to get it back to 5 degreesish and get new high steer arms and put the tie rod behind the axle....

If you see anytrhing wrong in my pics, please let me know!!!!
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a126/mike4089/one%20ton%20build/frontsuspension001.jpg
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a126/mike4089/one%20ton%20build/frontsuspension002.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a126/mike4089/one%20ton%20build/frontsuspension003.jpg
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a126/mike4089/one%20ton%20build/frontsuspension004.jpg
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a126/mike4089/one%20ton%20build/frontsuspension007.jpg
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a126/mike4089/one%20ton%20build/frontsuspension005.jpg
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a126/mike4089/one%20ton%20build/frontsuspension006.jpg

Looking at this pic, I don't see where you have an issue.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a126/mike4089/one%20ton%20build/frontsuspension001.jpg

Tack your steering linkage together, and tighten up those TRE's. With the pitman arm centered, that is as close as your steering is going to get. When the springs compress, due to the shackle reversal, the axle is going to move rearwards away from the pitman arm. Turning the wheel to either side, the pitman arms effective length is going to be shortened due to the arc it travels in. Even rotating the axle to correct your castor should work out just fine.

Give it a shot. It's always best to make sure there is a problem before throwing money at it to try and solve it.

I have a setup similar to yours. Except that I have a dana 44 in the front. I also used the psc shackle reversal and ended up tweaking it a bit. I moved my steering box ahead 4". But I also stretched my wheelbase 10" total. The nice thing is the psc mounts are adjustable. You can trade sides with the shackle outriggers and move things forward and have a lot of adjustability.

the caster is at 12-13 degrees....in that pic the pitman arm is hitting the tie rod....when i shim it its gonna rotate downward closer to the pitman arm??

the caster is at 12-13 degrees....in that pic the pitman arm is hitting the tie rod....when i shim it its gonna rotate downward closer to the pitman arm??

Guess it's just the angle of the pic then, looks like only the TRE is hitting and it doesn't look tight.

Fixing your castor is going to rotate the tie rod forward and down, hopefully down enough that you gain some clearance. You may indeed end up putting the tie rod behind the axle (works great and is how mine is set up), but only having the pics to go on, it looks like it would work. Fixing the castor realy isnt a choice, it will drive better on the way to the trail, and anything you can do to get your driveshaft up off the ground is a good thing, trust me, been there done that, driveshafts hated my old heep.

Were it me, I'd ditch the shim idea and start cutting to turn the knuckles so I could rotate that pinion up enough to run a CV front shaft, and get the castor to 6-8 degrees. Then tack stuff together to determine the steering linkages, it really is hard to tell when holding parts in place vs having things tacked in place and tightened. Sometimes 1/8" is enough, especially taking into account how the axle and steering is going to move through it's arc of travel.

i would love to rotate the housing cut the knuckles and make it the way i want...i just dont have the skill or know how to really do that correctly....

what high steer rms are you using that put the tie rod behind the axle? i was thinking the parts mike ones, and just selling off these ballistic fab ones...

Mine were made by a now defunct company called either AFM or AFW, can't remember, but they were out of Tx somewhere.

If you aren't ready to tackle a cut and turn yourself, then find someone local that is willing to help. There has to be a local board you can join and make friends with someone who has the tools. While I can't speak for everyone, I've often opened up my garage/shop to help folks out providing they were willing to be there helping and learning the whole time and kept the beer fridge stocked.

There are a ton of threads on the board here showing the whole process step by step.

full hydro
http://i445.photobucket.com/albums/qq179/jeepbonehead/1260207956.jpg
http://i445.photobucket.com/albums/qq179/jeepbonehead/1260207957.jpg

BTW you can see on my tie rod just to the upper right of the cylinder where there's no paint my pitman are was also hitting, but it hitting was never a big problem. never hit enough to phase me

i kinda like the single ended ram full hydro you have on your jeep....i dont know a whole lot about full hydro systems though...do the orbital valves bolt up to the stock brackets, steering shaft, all that other good stuff....that really would be a nice easy way to go....

looks like with the single ended ram setup i would have to make a truss/mount/skid for a double ended ram....

have anymore pics or details on your setup?