Does anyone have a total for axle failures with CTMshttp://dennis.classicbroncos.com/images/dsc00012.jpg

My count was up to 5, I only saw 4 first hand.
1. Kelly Clifford
2. Mello (purple cj in stock class)
3. Matt Padget
4. Jason Bunch


-That count is broken CTM joints. I know Kelly's wiped out both warn shafts with it as well (ouch!!!!)

Does anyone have a count for Dana Spicer:rolleyes: Five still isn't that bad considering who's testing them;)

Were these all the new cast CTM's or the older ones as well?

1 dead 5-760x Spicer. Broke the ram for the steering and the only way to fix it was lettting it turn way further right than left. That equals one broken u joint when you push a turn too far. Both axles are fine but now are in the "spare" pile.

see ya,

tony k

Long live the Ready Welder, just ask half the unlimited class.

Originally posted by Wilson
My count was up to 5, I only saw 4 first hand.
1. Kelly Clifford
2. Mello (purple cj in stock class)
3. Matt Padget
4. Jason Bunch


-That count is broken CTM joints. I know Kelly's wiped out both warn shafts with it as well (ouch!!!!)

DSI broke one too!!

good god I dint know they broke 5, that seems crazy, I guess they really were gettin it.:eek:

didnt h8monday break one too ..

Drew

I had one let go durring the Finals on Sunday also (my 3rd ).
I believe that part of the problem though was due to the fact that I had to install the CTM into a Warn outer shaft, that had already been in one catastrophic failure. It didnt look like the yoke had sustained any damage, but with the joint installed, it did not move as free as they usually do (they should be very free moving). I was forced to use it in that condition however, because the professional and concerened (cough,..bullshit,..cough) warranty reps at 4WPW did not feel that 6 weeks was enough time to warranty me a set of stub shafts, even though I damn near begged them to get them to me in time to get my prep for the competition completed.
If superiors new D44 shafts ever become, anything more substantial than a magazine add, I will have to give them consideration just due to how hard it is to get a damn Warn 19 spline stub shaft nowadays.
Warn, is gonna keep dicking around with short supplys of the shafts durring high demand, and 4WPW is gonna continue to oversell a product that they cant deliver,..and they are gonna lose a huge share of what were loyal, and satisfied customers.

In any case, one of the reasons for so much breakage of the high strength CTM/Warn assemblies, is due to the nature of the courses. The turns were so tight, and unmanueverable, that any rig with available cutting brakes, was using them nearly constantly. Consider the loads, being put on the joints, when I lock up my rear brakes, engage my front locker, crank the wheel hard in one direction, and mash the pedal with only the front drive line engaged, to 275hp engine. The front end hops violently, as you hold back the rig with the rear brakes and pound the front end untill it hops where you need it. It is a pretty violent manuever as far as U joints are concerned. A stock joint wouldnt last 15 seconds,....yes I have tried. When I have tried to use damaged but reshaped(yoke) high strength outer shafts, in the past, they have lasted less than a few minutes of cutting before spitting out the joint ends.
You must have good shafts, to even pray to hold up under comp conditions, on a course like Donner .
But dont forget, that Chris Durram, who is very quick to go to the cutting brakes, on his rig, was spitting out D60 joints on a daily basis. Even now that he uses CTMs, he welds them in (I dont think he has busted one since he started welding in the D60 CTMs into high strength shafts (I think they may be Mosers???) .

Originally posted by RudeZuk


DSI broke one too!!

broke the joint, ripped the ear's off both shaft's and wasted the upper ball joint...

forged joint's bought in late feb of this year...

Originally posted by DSI


broke the joint, ripped the ear's off both shaft's and wasted the upper ball joint...

forged joint's bought in late feb of this year...

it was uggggggggggly too. nice ripples :flipoff2:

why did they change the way they made them. doesn;t make sense they would want sell a weaker product. is he going to make them the way he did when none blew.

Originally posted by pitter
why did they change the way they made them. doesn;t make sense they would want sell a weaker product. is he going to make them the way he did when none blew.


He did not make them weaker, we are just pushing them very hard (read my post above).
I have busted 3 U joints, one of them was the new forged version, 2 of them including Sundays were Billet versions.
For every U joint I have busted, I have busted 3 or more axle shafts, so the strength is still as good as it ever was.
And again, I suspect that an already fatigued stub shaft, was the cause of the joint failure, that I experienced durring competition on Sunday. I havent even had a chance to remove the joint and get it in the mail to Jack, for examination.
I will remove it tomorrow after work and take a close look at it, then send it to Jack for the real evaluation.

For those of you guys running larger than normal competition rigs, busting joints and axles is going to be a way of life if you keep running 44's. Does not do you any good to have a lighter front axle to save weight cuz your rig is aleady to heavy, just to have it break in the middle of a course. Get the 60, run the CTM's, and keep competing without having to suck soooooo much vendor weenie to keep your rig in the running.:flipoff2:

Out of curiosity, has anyone heard of a broken Dana 60 CTM u-joint?

I have heard of such things happening, but you need to be super getting it.

yeah i agree with keith forget the 44 and step up to the 60, shave the bottom and move on

Originally posted by H8monday

busted 3 U joints, one of them was the new forged version, 2 of them including Sundays were Billet versions.

The forged ones are probably stronger then the billet ones. As I understand it any parts that you are subjecting to loads need to have a hardened outer "shell" while the inside remains ductile. aka forging. If you have a part made entirly of a hardened material, aka billit, the part will actually be very brittle.

yeah this thread makes me wonder how many regular Dana 60 axles and Spicer joints have blown up in comparison to the Dana 44 Warn/CTM combo. No way if I competed that a Dana 44 would be under my rig, they don't handle regular hard-core trail riding out here let a lone comp use!

I personally am thankful for all the hardcore testing everybody does at these comps. I am damm glad to have a set of CTMs in my 44. I doubt I'll ever stress them the way they're treated in the comps. When I do get a little crazy with the right foot, I have much more confidence in my front-end now. Watching what they can take is amazing. Has anyone broken one without the axle at least deforming? I think hate summed it up best.

Originally posted by Keith
For those of you guys running larger than normal competition rigs, busting joints and axles is going to be a way of life if you keep running 44's. Does not do you any good to have a lighter front axle to save weight cuz your rig is aleady to heavy, just to have it break in the middle of a course. Get the 60, run the CTM's, and keep competing without having to suck soooooo much vendor weenie to keep your rig in the running.:flipoff2: AMEN! soon the little people will learn. and i think teh 60 shafts ears blow apart before the 60 ctm goes! jiMMy

Originally posted by Jayrockn7
No way if I competed that a Dana 44 would be under my rig, they don't handle regular hard-core trail riding out here let a lone comp use!


Yeah, Ill have to keep that in mind.
And while Im at it Ill be sure to let Mike Shaffer, Lance, Grady Mcleod, Terry Sheetz, Jason Bunch, Matt Padgett, and Jason Scherer, that they have it all wrong, and to get in touch with you, when they finally want to know how to build a rig that can compete.:rolleyes:

Wondering when you were going to chime in here to save the day Jeff...lol

Hey, I did not say that you coud not compete with a 44, just that breakage is something that comes with the funin'. But I dont need to tell you or anyone that, you all know the pro's and con's.

Originally posted by H8monday



Yeah, Ill have to keep that in mind.
And while Im at it Ill be sure to let Mike Shaffer, Lance, Grady Mcleod, Terry Sheetz, Jason Bunch, Matt Padgett, and Jason Scherer, that they have it all wrong, and to get in touch with you, when they finally want to know how to build a rig that can compete.:rolleyes: cool, jeff let me know what thier responses are please, lol! jiMMy

Originally posted by H8monday



Yeah, Ill have to keep that in mind.
And while Im at it Ill be sure to let Mike Shaffer, Lance, Grady Mcleod, Terry Sheetz, Jason Bunch, Matt Padgett, and Jason Scherer, that they have it all wrong, and to get in touch with you, when they finally want to know how to build a rig that can compete.:rolleyes:

:laughing:

Originally posted by Keith
Wondering when you were going to chime in here to save the day Jeff...lol

Hey, I did not say that you coud not compete with a 44, just that breakage is something that comes with the funin'. But I dont need to tell you or anyone that, you all know the pro's and con's.


I know that a D60 with CTMs would be stronger than a D44 with CTMs.
But I have gone through 5 competitions and until this last Sunday I have never busted in a competition, and that joint was in a fatigued Warn shaft. Also when I started tearing it down this evening, I noticed that I have steering bind marks on it, so it was being treated very baddly.
When you consider that I have a 4300lb rig, no steering stops, a cutting brake obsession and absolutely no common sense when I want to listen to my 5.0, they must be are a very viable option for most rigs, under nearly any condition.
I agree that my rig is too heavy for a D44 and the abuse I give it. This winters modifications, will dictate whether or not I go to an hpD60/CTM axle.

And Jeff, I WANT to see you drive your rig with a HP60/CTM front axle!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:eek:

Originally posted by Keith
And Jeff, I WANT to see you drive your rig with a HP60/CTM front axle!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:eek: from a nearby peak with binoculars! :D

Originally posted by The Jerk
from a nearby peak with binoculars! :D


lmao................. i know he has the housing for it......... well now that he isnt breakin trannies maybe he really does need the 60....lol whaddiya think jeff? the tranny no longer a weak link? :D

Originally posted by Wilson


Jeff, while you're at it you should let these guys know that Jason bunch is running a model 30 in his jeep with 44 shafts and joints..so he should go on your list too.:D

Ummmm, I think I will keep my 60.

I missed Jason on his list the first time I read it. I wouldn't run a 30 either.

Originally posted by Keith
And Jeff, I WANT to see you drive your rig with a HP60/CTM front axle!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:eek:


Hahaha, after seeing Chris Durham on Course number 5 Sunday morning, I now know without a doubt, that there is no room for another throttle happy driver who thinks he can power his way to fame and glory,..."Long Live The King of the Throttle" He and his spotter spent about 10 minutes stacking rocks, then he lined up the rig, and lit the fuse on a rocket at the rear of the rig. We all got to watch a pefrect throttle on, throttle off display as he was pounding the headlights out of the rig, on rocks about 20 feet above our heads. :rolleyes:
I humbely took some tacticle advice from another driver much more experienced than me, and went on to quietly make the finals for my first time.:D

That full throttle stuff is a blast to watch lol. You did some nice full throttle stuff on course 7 sunday )

Originally posted by H8monday



Hahaha, after seeing Chris Durham on Course number 5 Sunday morning, I now know without a doubt, that there is no room for another throttle happy driver who thinks he can power his way to fame and glory,..."Long Live The King of the Throttle" He and his spotter spent about 10 minutes stacking rocks, then he lined up the rig, and lit the fuse on a rocket at the rear of the rig. We all got to watch a pefrect throttle on, throttle off display as he was pounding the headlights out of the rig, on rocks about 20 feet above our heads. :rolleyes:
I humbely took some tacticle advice from another driver much more experienced than me, and went on to quietly make the finals for my first time.:D

I was suprised to see you choose that path, but at the same time knew why you did. I left after shaffer's run to get the camera so I could film you and Chris. His run was enough for the both of you. I knew it wwas going to be nuts when he un pinned and removed his hood and then strapped down the 5 point harness.

Originally posted by Wilson


I was suprised to see you choose that path, but at the same time knew why you did. I left after shaffer's run to get the camera so I could film you and Chris. His run was enough for the both of you. I knew it wwas going to be nuts when he un pinned and removed his hood and then strapped down the 5 point harness.


It was a 4 point choice, and I only edged Jerremy Fabber out of the last spot in the finals, by 1 point.:eek:

Jeff, I went past winch hill three yesterday, and stopped for a moment of silence for you:)

Originally posted by Keith
Jeff, I went past winch hill three yesterday, and stopped for a moment of silence for you:)


The hill that we were watching Chris climb, was right in the shadows of the climb that bounced me down the hill 3 times at C4C. It had also dropped Kevin Yoder from the top the day before, in a really violent way. If there was ever a time for me to dig down and discover some long lost common sense, this was probably it.

On the same note, I got to watch Yotafilmers video of the C4C event at the lodge on saturday night. That rollover I did was pretty damn photogenic. He shows the rollover from 3 different angles. :eek: It is very entertaining.:D

Originally posted by H8monday



If there was ever a time for me to dig down and discover some long lost common sense, this was probably it.

.:D

Oh now you dig down. Why couldn't you dig down on Iron Mountain road last year!:flipoff2: Dont go soft on me!(that does not sound to good). You have become a member of Team Billy Bob!:D

Originally posted by H8monday



Hahaha, after seeing Chris Durham on Course number 5 Sunday morning, I now know without a doubt, that there is no room for another throttle happy driver who thinks he can power his way to fame and glory,..."Long Live The King of the Throttle" He and his spotter spent about 10 minutes stacking rocks, then he lined up the rig, and lit the fuse on a rocket at the rear of the rig. We all got to watch a pefrect throttle on, throttle off display as he was pounding the headlights out of the rig, on rocks about 20 feet above our heads. :rolleyes:
I humbely took some tacticle advice from another driver much more experienced than me, and went on to quietly make the finals for my first time.:D


congrats on makin it to the finals....... where did you end up overall?

so when are they gonna start selling videos of these events. H8's imagery is pretty damn good but i cant HEAR the carnage.


Hunter

maybe all you people should get rid of all of these gay dana 44s and get some real axles. HAHAHAHA Your gay!!!:flipoff2:

I dont care how well they are made, they are based off of weak ass parts. I am gonna put CTMs in my rockwells and then well see whats up. HAHAHAHA!!!

I have a pretty good pic (along with video) of Billy Bob breaking his D60 on Course 1 at the end of the day being a :clown: I could distinctly hear three 'grenades as it happened...

But of course he was on the happy pedal and already had broken a rear spring (held together with duct tape), his rear locker and it was after all Billy Bob.....

If I have a job at the end of this week, I will get a star and post it all up...

Jim

So after Chris D. lit the rocket did he make #5?

Originally posted by KYODER
So after Chris D. lit the rocket did he make #5?

Yep, he even ended up pointing in the right direction when the dust cleared. He had some goodies bounce out the back of his jeep while he was at it. Looked like some sort of fluid wrapped in roll cage padding. You could see sparks flying out from the undercarriage.

Originally posted by H8monday



Yeah, Ill have to keep that in mind.
And while Im at it Ill be sure to let Mike Shaffer, Lance, Grady Mcleod, Terry Sheetz, Jason Bunch, Matt Padgett, and Jason Scherer, that they have it all wrong, and to get in touch with you, when they finally want to know how to build a rig that can compete.:rolleyes:

Keep in mind.. Jason isnt running a 44 up front, but a shaved d30

Originally posted by Dennis
I personally am thankful for all the hardcore testing everybody does at these comps.

BINGO. For us normal wheelers, this is the kind of real world testing that lets us compare that with what we are doing and make informed decisions about what is going to work best in our own rigs. Keep it up guys, LOVE watching the 'R & D'!!!

Originally posted by ImKuNfusED


Keep in mind.. Jason isnt running a 44 up front, but a shaved d30

Sure would be nice when people reply to posts, that they read all the replies before the same the same shiat other people already have.

Originally posted by DSI


broke the joint, ripped the ear's off both shaft's and wasted the upper ball joint...

forged joint's bought in late feb of this year...

You were there? what were you driving?

Originally posted by badfish


You were there? what were you driving?

he was driving the lime colored flatbed toy on 38's.

I think the biggest reason most of you guys run 44's up front ( other then the weight BS) is the huge sponsorships that the Dana 44 has in aftermarket parts:flipoff2: I guess if CTM and 4WPW were my main sponsors I'd run a shitty little Dana 44 front too, that way all my parts need would be covered by my sponsors. There is a reason why the southern boys like Durham, Shupe, and Hamilton run 60 fronts, so they don't have to slow down to change shafts as they're kickin your ass :flipoff2: You'll see the light one day, hopefully it won't be to pull your frontend apart again.