Mog-9 Build Thread.... !!! PICS !!! [Archive]

Greg72

12-14-2009, 06:05 AM

Well, I'm no expert so this isn't going to be a nice quick "How To" thread....

I've been doing my homework, and learning as much as I can about the process so all I'm going to do is post up the pics of my struggles and document whatever learning I do along the way. Anyone with experience who wants to offer suggestions along the way is welcome to jump in here.

I'd prefer to get helpful advice even if I have to go backwards to re-do something... the alternative is to do things wrong, and I'm not interested in that.

So.... here we go:

I've got a set of 404 axles (one steer, one non-steer) and a set of Spidertrax 9" housings. I wanted to do a basic mock-up with one axle and the frame just to see what sort of clearances issues I was going to have.

The first setback was that I didn't have a 55mm socket, or a way to generate 750Lbs of torque to remove the massive hub nuts...so I did the only other thing that I could think of:

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC02267.jpg

I simply unbolted the portal from the intermediate adapter on the axle housing and slid the entire drum brake / portal & inner axle off as a single unit. There is a small tube running around the perimeter of that portal bearing...looks like a brake line with a banjo fitting, but might be some sort of gear oiler?

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC02281.jpg

The mock up with the Spider-9 ended up looking like this. The frame is about 2" shorter than actual ride height will be, so that gives me about 8" of uptravel before I hit the frame. My assumption is that I'll crush the oilpan well before I ever make contact with the frame rails... The wheel center is at the correct height to simulate my 38" tires, and the pumpkin clearance ends up being 18"....pretty impressive.

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC02254.jpg

Here's a shot of the 3rd member removed. I just wanted to see how it looked and how the locker operated. It took me a while to get the 3rd removed, but a quick search on this forum told me to rotate the pig 1/4 turn toward the locker side for clearance of the ring gear. As soon as I tried that, it dropped right out.

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC02270.jpg

I can sympathize at what a pain it must be to R & R a broken shift collar for the locker assembly. There's quite a bit of labor to get the 404 this far apart.

Last night, I jumped on eBay and picked up a Snap-On torque multiplier and a 55mm impact socket. I hate not having the right tools, and it seems like I'm going to need them quite a few more times anyway...

Now that I have those ~10" long "intermediate" axle housings removed it seems like it won't be hard to use them as a template to machine an adapter to mount to the 3.5" axle tube of the Spider-9s. I notice that some guys re-use these intermediate parts and build a flange further inboard on the axle, and other guys build their adapter to go directly to the back of the portal housing. I'm not sure if either has a particular advantage, or if it's just personal preference? :confused:

.

weps

12-14-2009, 08:12 AM

Great pics and writeup.
some guys eliminate those 'intermediate' spacer tubes as they are cast (shit)and you cannot weld links mounts to them.(successfully)
"BUT" if you ever are considering going to rear steer, they are great as your width won't change, you just replace them with the steering knuckles and associated steer parts.

Are you just going to cut your flange mounts off of the stock axle tube?

Greg72

12-14-2009, 08:18 AM

I think I'm going to use the larger oval-patterned housing (the one that bolted to the back of the portal box) as a template and have that machined with a 3.5" center hole for the new axle tube.

The stock part has a good amount of triangulation (cast-in gussetting) from the lower portal gear up to the tube...I'd like to incorporate a simliar solution with my adapter plate to reduce stresses. It seems like a logical area to also try to sneak in a set of lower mounting brackets for my 4-link heims...and maybe even create a place in that area for the lower coilover mount??

.

doublej

12-14-2009, 01:28 PM

There is a small tube running around the perimeter of that portal bearing...looks like a brake line with a banjo fitting, but might be some sort of gear oiler?

those are the rear axle breather tubes for the portal box. it allows it to breath through the axle and only have one tube on the outside of the axle vs. the front that has 3 b/c of the knuckles.

Greg72

12-14-2009, 01:30 PM

those are the rear axle breather tubes for the portal box. it allows it to breath through the axle and only have one tube on the outside of the axle vs. the front that has 3 b/c of the knuckles.

DoubleJ,

Thanks for the help. :beer:

.

Greg72

12-15-2009, 08:23 PM

I'm running into some problems with my scrub radius calculations....

According to this diagram, the upper kingpin pivot (shown in image as large red dot) is going to hit the tire with a 7.25" backspaced wheel, and even then the scrub radius isn't all that good.

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/ScrubRadius.jpg

So, I have a few questions for anyone who knows:

1. What was the backspacing on a factory Mog 20" wheel?
2. Is it possible to use a 17" wheel with lots of backspacing without interference? I'm thinking something like a Hutchinson with 6-3/8" BS... an H2 wheel only has about 4.5" IIRC
3. Will using the new SpiderTrax 1550 Steering knuckles give me a sharper SAI angle to help pull-in that scrub radius value to something closer to 0"?

-G

wendleburger

12-16-2009, 01:05 PM

I used to run a 17" wheel with as much backspacing as was physically possible, from memory it was 135mm, or roughly 5.25", any more than that and the wheel hits near the two top bolts that hold the portal onto the knuckle ( on the other face of where you have "RR" marked on yours above)

I moved to an 18" wheel to run the sticky Baja Claws and that gets rid of that interference point. I run something like 7" backspace now with the 18"s and could run a lot more if I wanted.

Greg72

12-16-2009, 01:29 PM

Thanks for those data points....

I think it's going to make sense to get the 8-lug conversions done sooner than later so that I have a proper WMS surface to drop some wheels against to check for interferences.

At the moment I have 3 different wheels at my disposal:

16.5"H x 9.75"W w /3.75"BS - Traditional Chevy "wagon" wheel
17.0"H x 8.50"W w /5.56" BS - H2 Stock "takeoff" wheel
16.5"H x 9.75"W w/ 7.25" BS - H1 Non-Recentered wheel

If none of those will fit, I'll have to do some soul-searching and either go to a larger diameter wheel, or use a lot less backspacing and gain even more scrub radius than I have now.

Fortunately, my eBay victory (55mm socket) showed up today in the mail. Now all I need is the Snap-On torque mulitplier (also coming off eBay) and I should be able to break those assemblies down the rest of the way.

:usa:

wendleburger

12-17-2009, 11:46 AM

Unfortunately, all of those wheels are going to be limited by the same inteference point, I was in the same boat when I built my first set of wheels for the Mogs, very dissapointed with the scrub radius. 18"s or 20"s really are the way to go.

Also, for what you are doing you shouldn't need to pull the boxes down unless you want to recondition them or strip all the brakes off. If you undo the little bolts around the seal housing where the axle shaft runs into the box, you can knock the box off the shaft. The shaft will come out with both bearings and the top gear.

YELLOWHOBO

12-27-2009, 02:31 PM

...It took me a while to get the 3rd removed, but a quick search on this forum told me to rotate the pig 1/4 turn toward the locker side for clearance of the ring gear. As soon as I tried that, it dropped right out...

some strategic grinding will allow you to take it out even more freely in the future and also helps to get it back in!

YELLOWHOBO

12-27-2009, 02:38 PM

Greg72

12-27-2009, 03:52 PM

I run 17" wheels with 6" backspacing, but I have a disk brake set-up. I bought the rig from Joel Kelsey who had Allied rims (6 1/4" backspacing) and now I run Walker Evans (6")

Are you planning on switching to Disk brakes?

Yes, definitely going to a disc brake setup.

Before I make any new wheel/tire decisions I'm going to get that conversion done and take a look at how my existing H2 wheels fit (or don't). At least I'll be able to take some measurements with those before making any more decisions.

-G
:usa:

mog-10

12-28-2009, 09:05 AM

Take a look at my build up home brew disk for a 404

http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=847496

Greg72

01-31-2010, 06:22 AM

The progress has been slow, but I'm learning a lot along the way....

like you cant just "pull" a 6-lug UniMog hub off the portal housing......you have to really PULL!!!

This will be a review for the experienced guys, but for anyone dealing with 404s for the first time, this information will be really helpful.

Step 1: Build a hub puller.... you can't weld to the drum to create a convenient mounting plate since it's too "iron-ic". Maybe if you've got an arc welder and special rods....I didn't, so I bought a piece of thick plate and transferred the hole pattern to it.

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC02448.jpg

Attach the hub puller to the hub and get the longest breaker bar you can find. Get ready to "earn" your success.

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC02451.jpg

If things work out well for you....this is what you'll see after an hour of effort (at least that's how long I struggled) :smokin:

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC02459.jpg

This is the portal box seperated into two parts. Now I understand why it was not possible to remove the axle shaft from the portal housing by removing the outer bearing cover and breather assembly! :D

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC02461.jpg

That's about it for now.... I need to revise the puller a bit to make it work better and more efficiently. I still have 3 more hubs to do, and I don't want to spend nearly this much time pulling those hubs too...

-G
:usa:

wendleburger

01-31-2010, 04:10 PM

ow I understand why it was not possible to remove the axle shaft from the portal housing by removing the outer bearing cover and breather assembly

I have done it that way, just gently tap the box off the shaft and the bearing pulls the outer cone out with it. :confused:

Greg72

01-31-2010, 04:21 PM

WB,

You know, now that I see how it all goes together and understand it a bit more you're right.....it wouldn't really hurt anything to pull it from the outside either.

Good suggestion!

As I've said before....a lot of this is very new to me. :D

-G
:usa:

Public_AenimA

02-02-2010, 03:30 PM

I built a very similar puller when I did my hubs. I found it was about an hour of straining to do it by hand and I also twisted the 3/4 drive nub off my Harbor Freight socket wrench. I had the best luck with a 1" impact gun and I simply resigned myself to using several bolt/nuts before I was done (most of which I seized so badly I had to cut them off the puller).

Also if you get the puller tightened and smack the hub on the side of the 'spindle' part the vibration is usually enough to get the whole thing to jump. Then you can do it again.

If I ever have to pull apart my 8 Lug converted hubs I am gonna try and built my next puller out of like 1 /14 or larger ACME threaded rod.

I strongly recommend a press for re-assembly.

P.S. Anti-seize is MUST for this project.

weps

02-04-2010, 08:11 PM

nice pics. yes folks, thats what they look like all apart...

dirty_k

02-07-2010, 05:25 PM

Ill be following this closely as im thinking about using mog portals on a couple of steering axle assemblies with custom disk brakes, i havnt decided what axle assemblies to use but they need to be beefy cause there will be a cummins powering the rig, im thinking about a "plate" with some gussets to the knuckle to bolt the portals to the knuckle, something that will relieve stress on the cast portals and give me a point to mount steering arms and shocks as far outboard as possible. i would like to use knuckles other than the 404 pieces because i dont like the kingpin issues, were gearheads, anything is possible and ive got a machine shop and forge at my disposal, let me know if theres anything i may be able to help with.

unimogken

02-08-2010, 07:52 AM

Nice tool you made there!

Greg72

02-09-2010, 05:34 AM

UPDATE!

Revised my puller tool with a 12" piece of All Thread to replace the partially threaded GR-8 Bolt. Now I've got enough travel to completely remove the hub without playing games with spacers, etc.

I also bought the corrent socket so I don't have to use that pipe wrench anymore....much easier.

Two hubs down.....two more to go!!

-G
:usaflag:

Greg72

02-13-2010, 03:33 PM

OK, I got all the hubs off... the front axle was WAY less frozen than the rear so the pulling was easy.

How do I get this thing apart???

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC02487.jpg

I took off the staked screws, but can't seem to budge the center pin. Do I need a pressing tool for this thing too!!???

-G
:usa:

Puffdragon

02-13-2010, 03:49 PM

You have to press the trunnion out. That will release it from the outer shaft.

PS, I like your hub puller.

weps

02-14-2010, 11:14 AM

Greg72

02-14-2010, 01:41 PM

What about the staked screws?

Can I somehow smooth the dings in those retainer plates and "restake" them, or are those plates a one-use-only type item? Maybe some LocTite on the screws instead of staking?? :confused:

And how hard is it to find replacements for those small rubber grommets that are sandwiched between the bearing caps and the main trunnion body? The ones there are a little deformed and could use replacements if I'm going to all this trouble anyway.

-G
:usa:

weps

02-14-2010, 05:03 PM

I just 're-stake' the screws with a center punch when I do them. Enough to 'smear' the material into the slot.
Scott at expedition can probably help you with those seals, I had spares from stuff I had parted out.

Greg72

02-24-2010, 10:22 AM

I just wanted to share a new photo with you all....

Mac at Exaxt shipped me the 8-Lug conversion kit, and the stuff looks phenomenal! I can't wait to get back into the garage to try assembling this stuff.

Here are the bits to do a single wheel:

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC02508.jpg

-G
:usa:

guidolyons

02-24-2010, 12:14 PM

Bling bling!

503681

xtremexj94

02-27-2010, 06:43 PM

So Exaxt is still in business, I guess that's a good thing. I thought they were closing up shop last June because Mac left me high and dry without parts and not even a phone call or e-mail to let me know what was happening. Kind of strange seeing as how I used to have a great relationship with them. Anyways, can't wait to see how your project turns out. I just finished my new Mog9s and will update my build thread as soon as I have time.

Greg72

02-28-2010, 04:38 AM

Yes! Please post some pics (and build tips!)....

Mog-9s are like Sasquatch.....people claim to have seen them, but it's awfully hard to find pictures and information. :smokin:

Rob @ Exaxt seems like a nice guy, I don't know what to tell you on that subject except maybe try just giving him a call directly? I've never had much trouble getting hold of him when I needed questions answered.

-G
:usa:

Greg72

02-28-2010, 05:04 AM

Keep 'em coming...... :grinpimp:

-G
:usa:

xjweeble

02-28-2010, 05:24 AM

[QUOTE=Greg72;11092740]

Mog-9s are like Sasquatch.....people claim to have seen them, but it's awfully hard to find pictures and information. :smokin:

QUOTE]

upnovers old axles in my DD. I have more pics if you want them
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c150/xjweeble/Crozet%2010%20JAN%202010/102_1364.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c150/xjweeble/Mobile%20Uploads/1267284901.jpg

weps

02-28-2010, 12:58 PM

Mog-9s are like Sasquatch.....people claim to have seen them, but it's awfully hard to find pictures and information.

Well, unfortunately, there was a time here on PBB where EVERY pic/build/question would get the hell flamed out of the poster, so people just quit...
myself included. Sadly, those people that were 'so kewl' probably don't even have a rig anymore:shaking:

Madgyver

03-27-2010, 08:46 PM

I just wanted to share a new photo with you all....

Mac at Exaxt shipped me the 8-Lug conversion kit, and the stuff looks phenomenal! I can't wait to get back into the garage to try assembling this stuff.

-G
:usa:Nice work Greg72!
I like how you built a puller to get the hubs off.
About the hubs from Exaxt, Did you test fit the Ford rotor on them?
Look like you posed the pic with the studs on the spacer.
Were your hubs machined on the outer edge after the plating?

BTW, here is what I'm working on.

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/madgyver/Unimog/DSC05455.jpg

Greg72

03-28-2010, 04:39 AM

MG,

I haven't done any assembly of those parts yet... too busy traveling for work, but I'll be getting to it soon.

Mac (eXaXt) just got back to me with the quote for the CTIS, so I want to get those parts ordered so that I've got everything I need so I'll only have to re-assemble these things once.

-G
:usa:

03-28-2010, 07:12 AM

Greg72

03-28-2010, 09:39 AM

Are you using a 35 spline ARB and if so, are you worried about the locking ring crapping out?

Yeah, I was watching the threads on the 35-spline ARB stuff and the RD-99 fix.

Honestly, with a portal axle I think the whole point is moot. Since the maximum torque is developed in the portal gears, there is only about 1/2 the normal stress on the inner shafts.... and in my view a 31-spline ARB will be more than adequate to do the job.

If I somehow manage to miraculously break the inner shafts or the 31-spline ARB I can step up to the 35 spline unit....of course that will probably be YEARS from now and any issues that are currently being prototyped and tested now will be completely sorted out and perfect by then! :D

Mac (eXaXt) is going to be doing all the work for my CTIS conversion. I barely have time to work on my truck as it is, so I certainly don't have the time to create a CTIS conversion from scratch. The quality of work on all the parts I've gotten from him so far has been insanely good...

-G
:usa:

03-28-2010, 10:37 AM

Yeah, I was watching the threads on the 35-spline ARB stuff and the RD-99 fix.

Honestly, with a portal axle I think the whole point is moot. Since the maximum torque is developed in the portal gears, there is only about 1/2 the normal stress on the inner shafts.... and in my view a 31-spline ARB will be more than adequate to do the job.

If I somehow manage to miraculously break the inner shafts or the 31-spline ARB I can step up to the 35 spline unit....of course that will probably be YEARS from now and any issues that are currently being prototyped and tested now will be completely sorted out and perfect by then! :D

Mac (eXaXt) is going to be doing all the work for my CTIS conversion. I barely have time to work on my truck as it is, so I certainly don't have the time to create a CTIS conversion from scratch. The quality of work on all the parts I've gotten from him so far has been insanely good...

-G
:usa:

I have a 35 spline ARB with a set of 406/9's I traded for some built 1 tons (and some cash), so I already own it. I'm actually setting it the 9 today and I'm still on the fence if I should sell the whole deal and go 60 center for the front. I guess like you say, could be a year or 2 before I actually get it on the trail, so hopefully there is good fix for it before It even matters.

Madgyver

03-28-2010, 11:34 AM

I waited a year before my hubs were done but Exaxt came through. There was a glitch in the final pieces and again Exaxt has made the correction.
All I need is the time to get going and working on my axles..
BTW, Here is how it all started for me.

http://classicbroncos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124344

weps

03-29-2010, 11:00 AM

I have a 35 spline ARB with a set of 406/9's I traded for some built 1 tons (and some cash), so I already own it. I'm actually setting it the 9 today and I'm still on the fence if I should sell the whole deal and go 60 center for the front. I guess like you say, could be a year or 2 before I actually get it on the trail, so hopefully there is good fix for it before It even matters.

OX, FWIW, I like the 9" as it is so much easier to change gears vs. a 60.
I have rounded up 2 sets of 2.75 gears and plan on installing them (complete chunk) when it gets warm(er)
With a stak 3 speed I do not need any more 'gear'
But, being a cheap ass I just run a spool,or welded anyways.

American

03-29-2010, 11:36 AM

Well, unfortunately, there was a time here on PBB where EVERY pic/build/question would get the hell flamed out of the poster, so people just quit...
myself included. Sadly, those people that were 'so kewl' probably don't even have a rig anymore:shaking:

So true.... :shaking:

Greg72

04-11-2010, 09:02 AM

Not a whole lot of progress on the axles themselves, but I was able to get some of the rear suspension mocked up.

Still lots more gussetting and plating to do, but I want to make sure everything cycles properly before I invest all that extra time...

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC02949.jpg

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC02955.jpg

-G
:usa:

04-11-2010, 09:21 AM

Not a whole lot of progress on the axles themselves, but I was able to get some of the rear suspension mocked up.

I was going to do my front just like you have it for space reasons, but I thought I read that the "inverted" 4 link setup changes the roll center drastically, increasing body roll a lot. I just found a thread that you were one of the guys that helped write the calculator, so maybe the above only applies to a front 4 link??? Anyway, would like to see a screen shot of the calculator from that design if you have it.

Greg72

04-11-2010, 10:46 AM

Here you go.... it's basically this, except I moved the upper links out about 1" per side for frame clearance. I still kept them parallel in both the Y & Z axes.

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/Suspension1.jpg

-G
:usa:

Sapper

04-11-2010, 04:47 PM

What frame is that? Nice work. Interested in seeing it all come together.

Greg72

04-11-2010, 05:10 PM

Hi,

It's a 1972 K5 Blazer frame..... 2 actually. I cut up an extra one and welded the rails to the opposing side as an "inside" frame box. It was a lot of work, but it came out really nice. All the factory holes lined up perfectly and acted as great indexes for me as I fit them together.

-G
:usa:

weps

04-11-2010, 07:34 PM

Sapper

04-11-2010, 08:39 PM

I remember seeing a while back that someone was selling lazer cut brackets for making the mog-9 but now I can't seem to find it. I check balistic, TMR, and BTF but I did find some other shiny items.

Are you just planning to cut the old ones of and turn them on the lathe to match the ID of the tubes on the existing housing? After all the work I have into my 406/416 axles I almost wish went this route instead.

I like the design and I agree that there will be a lot of forces on the link mounts and thus why I used 3/8 for mine as I saw way too many bent 1/4 mounts. Looking at your pictures my suspension is nearly identical to yours but I moved my lower mount further forward and down from axle centerline to help try and combat the forces of the portal but I still have to prove everything....

Oh yeah if you haven't considered the portal braces yet WEPS is who you want to talk to about those. They will help the portals survive.

Greg72

04-11-2010, 11:54 PM

Thanks for the suggestions.

There is still time to beef up those mounts...I could add another slightly smaller 1/4 plate and build a "laminated" type bracket that I've seen the desert truck guys use. That would get me to 1/2" mount thickness in the areas where it matters most.

My concern with the portal offset is the amount of weld area on the axletube itself and making sure that I've got those welds REALLY strong with as much weld area as I can manage. I keep imagining the torque trying to tear those link mounts right off the tubes.... but know I'll also be vigilant about the crossmembers too.

I was definitely going to "recycle" the factory 404 mounting plates for the portals and just machine the ID to 3.5" to match the Spidertrax housing. I've been holding on to a set of MSI portal boxes for a few years now, so I've got a nice strength upgrade over the cast factory boxes.

-G
:usa:

04-12-2010, 03:57 AM

I love how you did the frame and the vertical separation, 'BUT', I wonder just how much the portal will add in extra torque (twist) of the axle tube as the actual CL of the tire is about 5 inches lower than what you have mocked up.

the portals torque a LOT, I am on version 3 of my lower crossmember, I bent the piss out of the 1st two....

Ditto. I have a 3 link (with trackbar) front now and trashed the frame and axle end of that upper mount 3 times each (I'm now up to 1/2 inch plate on top of truss over axle). And I don't even drive half as hard as I'd like, always worried about ripping things out again. Looking forward to 4 links @ both ends with some seriously beefy mounts on both ends of the uppers.

Greg72

04-17-2010, 04:11 AM

Any chance you guys with link mount failures could post pics of the setups that failed?

I'd be interested to see photos of either the "before" or "after" just to get some additional ideas.

-G
:usa:

04-17-2010, 05:08 AM

Any chance you guys with link mount failures could post pics of the setups that failed?

I'd be interested to see photos of either the "before" or "after" just to get some additional ideas.

-G
:usa:

Sheared right through 1/4 inch plate. It is a 3 link though, so that link the only thing keeping wrap in check (hence why I'm going 4 link front this time). I just massively underestimated those wrap forces, especially since the lower links are usually right @ the axle tube. Even statically sitting there, there is a huge force on the upper link (s) just from the rig weight trying to push the axle up and back about the lower link.

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/GREEN_DILYSI/UNIMOG/BEEFED%20TRUSS/FIXED%20TRUSS%20PART%20DUH!!!/DCP04536.JPG

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/GREEN_DILYSI/UNIMOG/BEEFED%20TRUSS/FIXED%20TRUSS%20PART%20DUH!!!/DCP04537.JPG

Now at 1/2 total thickness, so far so good.

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/GREEN_DILYSI/UNIMOG/BEEFED%20TRUSS/FIXED%20TRUSS%20PART%20DUH!!!/DCP04547.JPG

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/GREEN_DILYSI/UNIMOG/BEEFED%20TRUSS/FIXED%20TRUSS%20PART%20DUH!!!/DCP04550.jpg

Greg72

04-17-2010, 05:13 AM

Very helpful....thanks!

I was over on the Bronco board this morning trying to edumacate myself a bit more with whatever I can find on this topic while I tank up on some coffee. I'll be heading out to the shop in a few minutes to continue my link setup so I wanted to get some fresh inspiration.

Any idea what sort of link separation you had with that 3-link setup? I went for 10" at the axle end thinking that would be more than enough...but now I feel like it's maybe only about average. I really don't want to give up all that delicious ground clearance by dropping the lower mounts, so I'm going to build the beefiest mounts I can imagine.

-G
:usa:

Greg72

04-17-2010, 05:18 AM

About the hubs from Exaxt, Did you test fit the Ford rotor on them?
Look like you posed the pic with the studs on the spacer.
Were your hubs machined on the outer edge after the plating?

Hey Madgyver!

I was reading up on your build thread this morning. Please tell me more about the eXaXt machining issue you had. From your comments above I'm guessing that either the spacer or the hub was a bit oversized??

Just trying to anticipate any fitment issues, or at least check to make sure that Mac got his design dialed-in. I just got my 8-Lug stuff about a month ago so my guess is that whatever he fixed for you was probably also addressed on my kit..... but I'd still like to verify it.

-G
:usa:

weps

04-17-2010, 09:07 AM

Any chance you guys with link mount failures could post pics of the setups that failed?

I'd be interested to see photos of either the "before" or "after" just to get some additional ideas.

-G
:usa:

my link s did'nt fail, but the 'crossmember' bar (between the frame rails) did.

=) < turn that sideways, and it will show what happened to me. v1 was 2"od x .250 wall bent bad 1st time out at the badlands. it bent SO much that the rear dshaft was then fully compressed and causing the output gear in the 205 to grind and complain!
v2 was 2.5 (i think) x .500 wall, and it lasted a run or 2 before it bent and was again causing dshaft issues (and shock mounts)

v3 is 3"od x 1" wall.:eek: yes, 1 inch wall. it weighs a ton, and I am kind of embarrased by it:shaking: but it works. I did'nt want to re-engineer the entire thing, so I am just posting this as info that (hopefully) someone else can use.
make it strong and easy to replace/repair/upgrade

to swap mine I have to pull 1/2 the rig apart. it sucks.

Sapper

04-17-2010, 09:37 AM

I have seen many portal rigs now with bent crossmembers and bent or torn mounts thus why I went to 3/8 for everything. It is more than likely a bit overkill but I would prefer it this way that having it fail later. Also my lower link mounts are a bit below and ahead of axle CL but with a 46" tire they are still going to clear most things and are still higher than the bottom of the diff.

Many people under estimate the torsion on links and brackets with portals compare to other axles.

Check out my sig to see where I am at. Now that I am home again and have a lot of time off coming I should be moving at a better pace soon. Just waiting on a few things to get here.

04-17-2010, 06:44 PM

v3 is 3"od x 1" wall.:eek: yes, 1 inch wall. it weighs a ton,

Have to see some pics of that Weps.......:D

weps

04-18-2010, 04:23 PM

Have to see some pics of that Weps.......:D

Next time I am under there I will try to get a pic.
It is covered by my skid plate right now.
you WON'T be impressed though.:flipoff2:

Greg72

04-25-2010, 04:16 AM

Well, I took the advice provided here and reworked my original mounting bracket idea...

Here's a recent shot of the frame side upper mounting bracketry:

In process, almost complete...
http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC03033.jpg

Finished product...
http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC03046.jpg

The majority of the structure is 1/4" plate, but I reinforced the areas around the heim mount with another 1/4" piece to beef-up the immediate area.

I welded the inside seams as well as the outside seams, and kept all the gaps and fitment as tight as possible so I'm hoping that all my work will pay off with a bracket that is durable and maintenance-free.

-G
:usa:

savage440

04-25-2010, 08:43 AM

Greg72

04-25-2010, 09:10 AM

is that a M37 frame?

Nope.....It's two 1972 Blazer frames welded together to make a single "boxed" one.

-G
:usa:

04-25-2010, 10:58 AM

WOW!! I don't think you are going to break that.
I planned on beef, but I wasn't going to take it that far.

Now your making me re-think even what I had planned.
So much easier to overdesign in that area, up front, with the body off.
Even with that extra, you maybe added 5 lbs per bracket??

04-25-2010, 11:10 AM

Very helpful....thanks!

Any idea what sort of link separation you had with that 3-link setup? I went for 10" at the axle end thinking that would be more than enough...but now I feel like it's maybe only about average. I really don't want to give up all that delicious ground clearance by dropping the lower mounts, so I'm going to build the beefiest mounts I can imagine.

Just measured and it is 7.5. My lower links are @ the top of the axle tube though, making matters worse. Only way it would work with the rear mounted (below diff) tie rod ends. I agree and keeping the links @ bottom of axle tube or higher.

and I did just find a fresh dent in the oil pan from my beefed up 3rd link diff mount (at full stuff), so thanks for making me look and creating new work for me. :flipoff2:.

BTW, I am shooting for 9-10 on my 4 link (maybe more in the rear, since I plan on some sort of backhalf, so I can do whatever I want back there). I'm not confident that any upper link on a 3 link will take that much abuse, hence why I'm going 4 link both ends.

weps

04-25-2010, 08:39 PM

looks nice.

Greg72

04-27-2010, 05:18 AM

Just measured and it is 7.5. My lower links are @ the top of the axle tube though, making matters worse. Only way it would work with the rear mounted (below diff) tie rod ends. I agree and keeping the links @ bottom of axle tube or higher.

and I did just find a fresh dent in the oil pan from my beefed up 3rd link diff mount (at full stuff), so thanks for making me look and creating new work for me. :flipoff2:.

BTW, I am shooting for 9-10 on my 4 link (maybe more in the rear, since I plan on some sort of backhalf, so I can do whatever I want back there). I'm not confident that any upper link on a 3 link will take that much abuse, hence why I'm going 4 link both ends.

It might be obvious, but something worth remembering is that when you use the link calculators to figure out the link forces for your rod end sizing, you are in effect determining the absolute strength required of the axle & frame mount bracketry as well.

The link separation will drastically change the forces seen at the rod ends...so I'll bet that if you increase from 7.5" to 10" the numbers would look a lot better even if you didn't switch over to a 4-link setup.

For reference:

My upper links show 37,950 Lbs of tension loading (each) with a 6G factor of safety
My lower links show 58,642 Lbs of compression loading (each) with a 6G factor of safety. :eek:

My new bracket seems beefy, but maybe not excessive considering the potential forces involved...and the lower links are going to be even MORE heavily loaded, so those brackets are going to need some careful thought as well.

-G
:usa:

04-27-2010, 05:00 PM

It might be obvious, but something worth remembering is that when you use the link calculators to figure out the link forces for your rod end sizing, you are in effect determining the absolute strength required of the axle & frame mount bracketry as well.

The link separation will drastically change the forces seen at the rod ends...so I'll bet that if you increase from 7.5" to 10" the numbers would look a lot better even if you didn't switch over to a 4-link setup.

For reference:

My upper links show 37,950 Lbs of tension loading (each) with a 6G factor of safety
My lower links show 58,642 Lbs of compression loading (each) with a 6G factor of safety. :eek:

My new bracket seems beefy, but maybe not excessive considering the potential forces involved...and the lower links are going to be even MORE heavily loaded, so those brackets are going to need some careful thought as well.

-G
:usa:

I'm @ 34K and 51K for upper and lower links with FOS of about 2.
Moving my separation to 7.5 only in increases my uppers to 46K, or 35% more. My force increases are going to come from twice the HP, 44's vs 42's, much more aggressive driving, more overall gear, etc.... That's why I'm pretty sure no amount of separation will help with a 3 link.

Anyway, I don't think there is such a thing as overkill on these brackets, but I wonder if you get to a point that you just transfer the weak link to the frame? No way I will have the room to do what you did, especially on the upper links which I've moved inside the frame at this point (can't fit outside links with a steering axle, I tried).

I was curious also what made you pick 6G's for the accel?

Greg72

04-27-2010, 05:56 PM

I was curious also what made you pick 6G's for the accel?

6G is a number that Dan Barcroft (Triaged) and I have been using in the suspension calculators since their early development back in late 2003.

Dan had always expressed a concern about having adequate design margin especially on the steering axle. This was due to the fact that it was such a critical safety item. This ultimately may be an "industry standard" that he was taught during his engineering coursework at CalPoly... without a doubt, he is the M.E. guru so I didn't question his assertion that this was the right FS value to use. It might be a good time to ask him to add some fresh commentary about that number... :idea:

I was more of the "Excel guy" during our collaborations, working on the visualizations of the data and trying to create a more "simple" interface that would help to show complex suspension theory in a way that would be more approachable for the average guy. Really I was just trying to teach myself about linked suspensions, but it ultimately ended up being a valuable teaching tool for a LOT of others as well.

-G
:usa:

Triaged

04-27-2010, 09:58 PM

04-29-2010, 03:04 AM

Of all things I found the 6g number in a road racing book...I could look it up but I don't remember which one off hand. If you do a search on eng-tips.com you will find reference to similar numbers. 6g is something you are going to feel. It is often accompanied by saying "oops", "wow that hurt", and changing at least a tire/wheel.

The links are one thing and the mounts another story all together. Sometimes the link mount will stay together and rip out a chunk of the axle tube or frame. Putting the links above the wheel center line ups the force they see. However moving the links up helps get a flat axle roll axis. There are trade offs in every design. It looks like Greg is taking something incredibly heavy and adding a bit more weight to it in order to get the dynamics right so it isn't scary to drive.

I was looking up G's in your typical car accident and they claimed 3 or 4.
I'm glad you have it is up that high as I still have a FOS of 2 min. It's a lot easier to design beefy brackets for compression, so I'm also happy the highest forces are in the lower links. So thanks guys for the calc, huge help so far. I stole another guys idea and built a model of the susp last night. Flexes good with no bind, so I'm ready to start designing link brackets.

fcfred

06-10-2010, 09:38 AM

link separation- I'm at 8.5 inches of rear link separation (4link) and 9-inches at the front (3-link with track bar), it's not enough, I've been tearing off both the uppers. I think I can roll the lower links down below the axle tube. my friend in germany with portals and a cummins runs closer to 14-inches.

time for a redesign on my part. how is your progress?

06-10-2010, 09:56 AM

mog-10

06-10-2010, 10:22 AM

what are you doing with your factory wheels flanges

Greg72

06-10-2010, 01:18 PM

time for a redesign on my part. how is your progress?

I'm still at 10" of separation at the axle end.... so far so good.

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC03154.jpg

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC03151.jpg

I'm waiting on my CTIS parts (stuck in Customs now), and then I'll be ready to build-out the 404 outers and select my final track width. For now, I built some "fake" ORI struts to play around with clearances, especially when the suspension is cycled.

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC03253.jpg

-G
:usa:

YELLOWHOBO

06-13-2010, 04:44 PM

Lookin good! :smokin::smokin:

extremehobbie

06-13-2010, 08:16 PM

hi, are those "shocks" HOME MADE??

jh206

06-13-2010, 08:48 PM

I think they are fake shocks that he made for mock up,good idea!!

Greg72

06-14-2010, 03:39 AM

hi, are those "shocks" HOME MADE??

Yes, they're homemade and ANGRY YO!! :laughing:

Actually, they are made to represent a 16" travel ORI strut. The ORI website has some very good mechanical drawings of their struts so it was easy to build a replica for mock-up purposes.

-G
:usa:

Hvy_Chevy

06-14-2010, 06:11 PM

great work, but why not run the uppers inside the frame, triangulated to the axle?

Greg72

06-14-2010, 06:47 PM

I wasn't really interested in doing a double-triangulated setup. I know, I know... EVERYONE in the world seems to do it that way and it works fine.

However, parallel uppers give me a perfectly neutral roll axis and gets it up nice and high as well. I think that's going to work well for me.

Ultimately, you can make a 4-link work pretty well any number of ways so people usually pick the one that's the easiest to package (ie. double triangulated). There is so much custom fabrication going on already on the frame and body that I didn't really let "easy" get in the way. I just picked the design that I liked the best so now I'm taking the needed steps to get it tucked into the space I've got.

-G
:usa:

Greg72

06-21-2010, 05:31 AM

UPDATE!

Well, it's an exciting and somewhat scary time. The CTIS parts have arrived, and I bought an el cheapo 20-Ton press for the shop. It's now time to start building the portal boxes!!! :smokin: I've got a LOT of new parts to assemble and no experience with how to accomplish it. I'll be scouring the PBB looking for whatever tips or instructions I can find.

In anticipation of that process, I was planning to pick up some anti-sieze for the hubs to make them easier to disassemble later on. Are there any other specialty greases required? I'm thinking about getting the best quality high-temp grease I can find for things like the needle bearings, etc. I really want this process to be as smooth and reliable as possible.

I was planning to use that "Right Stuff" gasket product instead of the normal paper gasket that seals the backing plate to the portal box. It seems like I've seen a few photos of guys doing it that way.

Is there such a thing as setting "backlash" or "endplay" adjustments on the portal gears? It seems weird that the smaller upper gear just sits in a bearing pocket and you get what you get as far as alignment goes. :confused: I really need to take a fresh look at the factory 404 manual to confirm.

I've got all new bearings for this rebuild as well. All are from SKF. Some are "Made in USA", some are "Made in Germany" and some are "Made in India"... should I be worried about the ones coming from India? If it's an issue, I can try to source that bearing from a better quality source.

Pictures will follow shortly, along with a host of additional questions I'm sure.... :D

-G
:usa:

weps

06-21-2010, 10:33 AM

I would stay away from the 'high temp' grease, as you may know that the 'secret ingredient' that makes it 'high temp' is clay (yes, the dirt)
maybe a great grease like 'Lubriplate' but, honestly, I just pump the CV's before each run, and once a day while out wheeling and have never had a problem (I use Mobil synthetic)
as far as the gear 'backlash', you(can) adjust that by shimming under the small gear's bearing cup in the box. This pretty much SUCKS as you end up F-ing the cup getting it out of the nice blind hole:shaking:

Mine are what they are, and I have never had a problem.
But, you are correct to inquire, and to read thru the MB manual.
my 2 cents...

06-21-2010, 04:19 PM

Greg72

06-21-2010, 08:55 PM

Quick Update.....

Large lower gear pressed out of portal box....simple now that I own a 20-Ton shop press.

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC03293.jpg

These long studs were really hard to remove...I thought studs were only ever supposed to be "hand tight"....didn't anyone tell the German engineers?

....and how do you remove that captive bearing race when it's buried in a pocket like that? Do I need a special puller of some sort?

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC03297.jpg

Cleaned up the backing plate (Back side)

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC03304.jpg

(Front Side)

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC03305.jpg

:usa:

S.frimodt

06-22-2010, 03:30 AM

Are you gonna reuse the bearing? Otherwise what I use to do is weld a couple of bolts to it and hammer it out with a sliding hammer. If you have to reuse it you will need a puller. Re the shimming of the input shaft. It is very critical, I have first hand experience of this, otherwise the whole of the CV will vibrate and eventually hit the knockle. I don't think the job was too bad, when I installed new bearings I just had to remove one shim. What you could do is buy two identical bearings and grind the outside of the outer bearing so that it slips in and out nicely. It can be a pain to get in and out though if you have the secondary (large) gear in the housing. But you don't have that. Furthermore if you remove the paper gasket make sure this shimming is acounted for, otherwise you will burn your bearings.

Greg72

06-22-2010, 04:36 AM

Thanks for the tips! :beer:

I found some assembly instructions online that appear to be the Unimog 404 Factory pages for portal assembly / disassembly, and it looks like they are trying to illustrate where to measure on the housing to insure that the bearing height is correct.

Do you happen to have a good image or link that shows where this measurement is taken?

My new parts came with all new bearings (those SKF ones I'd mentioned earlier)... hopefully I can get the original bearing out cleanly and then I can turn in down a little to use for the shimming and setup as you suggested.

I planned to use the "Right Stuff" gasket-in-a-can to mate the two halves when the time came, but then I'd have no idea what to use for a dimension to represent gasket thickness. I don't know if the original paper gaskets have a reputation for leaking badly, or if they actually work well....? I might be solving a problem that doesn't exist by trying to use a different sealing material.

:usa:

S.frimodt

06-22-2010, 07:41 AM

You're welcome.
Sadly I have no pics, but in the repair manual they use a special tool for measuring the total protrusion of the axle complete with bearings. This allows you to find exactly the right shims for the job without having to take the bearing in and out. You simply assemble it all on the primary axle and measure from the housing. Of course I did not have this tool, so I used the trusty old vernier caliper. I know this is by no means accurate, but the shims are fairly thick so accuracy was sufficient. using an old bearing will not work as it is of course worn and the reading will be wrong, you must buy an extra exactly like the one you are using. OR Trust the vernier and do it like me. It turned out perfectly on mine so I don't see why it shouldn't work for you. But the setup is actually quite bad, because there is no adjust-ability. Conical roller bearings like that could be used for several more miles if only you could adjust it. But if you have to take everything off to shim it, you might aswell replace them anyway.
Re. the paper gasket, well I've seen many Mog's and never one leaking from that gasket, its always from the hub. So I wouldn't replace it because of fear of leaks. I simply use silicone-based sealant on both sides and there's never a leak.

06-22-2010, 05:27 PM

Greg72

06-22-2010, 07:27 PM

OX,

Thanks for the offer...if you get a chance I'd like to hear what that thickness is.

Based on what I'm hearing, I will probably just use the factory gaskets to keep things simpler. I was able to get my hands on some pages that appear to be "official" Mercedes-Benz instructions describing the bearing shimming procedure. They don't make a lot of sense to me yet, so I'll be reading them a few more times until they do. :D

-G
:usa:

heath2345

06-22-2010, 08:15 PM

I was looking at your rear 4 link setup, with the parallel uppers. Does this setup offer less body lean or roll when articulating than a double triangulated 4 link setup? I ran the latter setup on my last rig, and I got a ton of body lean when fully stuffed. I felt like I was going to tip over, so now I'm rethinking a different setup on my current build. thanks, any info would be great as i am not an engineer just a dude who likes to wheel

Greg72

06-23-2010, 04:36 AM

I doubt that it makes much difference for body roll, that would be more related to your roll-center height vs. CG height...and maybe a lack of swaybars.

The parallel uppers do a really good job keeping the roll-axis neutral (no axle steer).

-G
:usa:

06-23-2010, 03:49 PM

ox,

thanks for the offer...if you get a chance i'd like to hear what that thickness is.

Based on what i'm hearing, i will probably just use the factory gaskets to keep things simpler. I was able to get my hands on some pages that appear to be "official" mercedes-benz instructions describing the bearing shimming procedure. They don't make a lot of sense to me yet, so i'll be reading them a few more times until they do. :d

-g
:usa:

.012

mog-10

06-23-2010, 04:16 PM

when are you getting your ctis parts? i want to see some pixs

Greg72

06-23-2010, 06:38 PM

Well, I guess my reading comprehension isn't as good as it should be...

After looking at the Factory Instructions a few more times it appears that the critical bearing setup is not the lower bearing (output gear) as I had previously shown in my photos. The critical one is the input gear (Upper bearing coming in from the axletube)

The lower (output) bearing has no adjustment at all.

Parts-wise, everything I need is here now.... Portals, 8-Lug Disc Brake kits, and CTIS:

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC03277.jpg

That's an awful lot of crap to figure out and assemble, and I definitely don't want to make any mistakes and ruin parts in the process. My plan is to take my time and do ONE portal all the way through as a confidence-builder and then the other 3 should go easy and quick.

:usa:

mog-10

06-23-2010, 09:23 PM

oh man thats some nice stuff ware did you get the boxes are those msi's i tought he did not make them anymore. what did they run you. do you think i could get the part number for the roating union.

thanks

S.frimodt

06-24-2010, 01:19 AM

Uhh! That is some nice stuff! I want! :D
I didn't even notice you were talking about the lower bearings, then I wouldn't have been telling you about the upper :D But yes you are right, the uppers are the critical ones and lowers cannot be adjusted. But as I had written previously it is much easier to do the shimming if you do not install the lower gear, as getting the outer bearing in and out to do the shimming is a bit of a pain, because the large gear overlaps it. It's definitly a good idea to take it slow on the first one to get the best possible result.

06-24-2010, 03:44 AM

Parts-wise, everything I need is here now.... Portals, 8-Lug Disc Brake kits, and CTIS:

WOW!!, that stuff is pretty :flipoff2:

Is it all plated or polished.

Greg72

06-24-2010, 03:58 AM

WOW!!, that stuff is pretty :flipoff2:

Is it all plated or polished.

Thanks. The MSI portals, and the eXaXt 8-lug stuff are definitely plated. It's not chrome per se, maybe just some sort of a nickle plating? :confused:

The CTIS hub bolts are just raw steel.

Of course, the obvious part that is missing are the rotors and calipers for the disk brake conversion.

The instructions say to find front calipers/discs from a 1995 - 1997 Ford E250 (3/4 ton or 1 Ton) 2WD truck, but I've also seen a build thread where someone appears to be using a front Ford caliper from a 1998 Ford E250 2WD. I'm not sure if certain years will be easier to find, or if the parts books will all cross-reference to the exact same part numbers.... I haven't gotten that far yet.

I picked up a couple tubes of MobilOne synthetic grease yesterday, and some copper-based anti-sieze paste, some emery cloth (to polish the hub surface in an effort to make installation a bit smoother)...and another case of Brakeleen! :grinpimp:

-G
:usa:

mog-10

06-24-2010, 07:01 AM

im using 98 2wd e250 calipers thir all over the you pull its. thir chaep. im using 93 chevy 2500 4wd rotors. so ware did you get the msi portal boxes i emailed him about them and never heard back.

Greg72

06-26-2010, 04:30 AM

so ware did you get the msi portal boxes i emailed him about them and never heard back.

MSI = Moore Sport Inc.
http://www.mooresport.com/

I was dealing with Mark (probably one of the owners). You could just give them a call, it would be easier and faster than email. He runs a race shop and builds a lot of one-off custom stuff for race cars, the portal boxes were a pretty unusual item for him, but several years ago there were enough people on Pirate interested again... so he did another small production run.

I try not to think about what they cost me, especially since I bought a complete set of bearings as part of the deal and the shipping from Canada was almost $300 by itself....the total bill was well over $4000.

Have you talked to Andy (weps) about aftermarket 404 portals? I know that he developed a CNC solution that was cheaper and since he's in the U.S. the shipping would probably be a lot simpler too. It worth a shot.

-G
:usa:

Greg72

10-05-2010, 05:14 AM

2010.10.05 - UPDATE! - PORTAL ASSEMBLY AND A FEW CHALLENGES...

Here are some new shots of my attempts to rebuild the 404 portals and add in some new parts too.

A shot of the backing plate completely stripped of all bearings and parts. I didn't have a blind-puller to remove the lower bearing race, so I just pryed-out the cage and bearings and then was able to gently pry out the race with a prybar. I have all new bearings so it didn't really matter if the old one came out cleanly.

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC03939.jpg

A shot of the opposite side of the backing plate with a coat of zinc chromate on it prior to final paint. I was able to clean it up really nicely with some red scotchbrite pads and get all of the surface texture and fine details back.

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC03943.jpg

A shot in final paint, with new bearings (upper and lower) in position as well as the large main gear. I polished the splines a bit to ease the installation, but as you'll see later on, it wasn't enough...or at least not in the right places.

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC03957.jpg

Test fitting the intermediate axle tube. I'm not sure if I want to use this on the rear axle or not. It may end up being in the way of all my link mounts. My only other option is to have a new adapter machined with the large pattern (the backing plate side) that opens up to a 3.5" hole for the axletube on my Spidertrax housing.

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC03964.jpg

The press setup I am using, along with my first mistake. The labyrinth seal that protects the lower gear seal should have been pressed to the back side of the hub BEFORE I pressed the hub down. As you'll see in a minute, I'm going to need to pull this all apart anyway so I can fix this...

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC03969.jpg

China Freight press plates = 0, Hydraulic leverage = 1.

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC03976.jpg

The hub was taking a lot of pressure to press it down, and after the press plate shattered I took a closer look and realized why. You can see that the smaller splines were acting like little chisels and cutting into the eXaXt hub, creating curls of metal at each location. My guess is that this is simply the plating material being removed, but it was probably contributing to the extra resistance during the pressing process.

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC03973.jpg

I'm going to have to modify my old puller to an 8-hole setup so that I can pull this assembly apart and try again. I'll fix the labyrinth seal part, and do a lot more work to remove the plating from the inner splines of the new hub. I will probably also put a slight bevel on those leading edges of the gear splines so that they aren't as likely to dig-in during the pressing process.

That's about all the new status for now. If anyone has tips or suggestions please speak up....

:usa:

10-05-2010, 08:01 AM

That's about all the new status for now. If anyone has tips or suggestions please speak up....

:usa:

I was told mercedes went way overboard on the interference fit of the stock hub and output shaft. Hence why the guy I got my hubs from backed substantially on the class fit when he machined the internal splines. My stock hubs were a huge PIA to get off, but the new hubs went right back on with no trouble. Did MSI make those hubs too??

Greg72

10-05-2010, 08:13 AM

Hence why the guy I got my hubs from backed substantially on the class fit when he machined the internal splines.

Can you clarify what you mean by this? Do you have any more specifics about where the dimensions were reduced and by how much? As the pictures show, I basically smoothed out the outer "rib" of the large splines but didn't get into the "groove" areas at all. When I get this hub apart I will definitely blunt the leading edges of the small splines to remove the point and hopefully keep them from gouging things up next time.

The hubs in the photos are actually part of the eXaXt 8-lug disc brake conversion kit. There is a large ~1" thick 8-lug spacer included as well, but the instructions don't talk about it. I'm assuming it's to help with folks who don't run massively backspaced wheels.

:usa:

10-05-2010, 12:08 PM

Can you clarify what you mean by this? Do you have any more specifics about where the dimensions were reduced and by how much? As the pictures show, I basically smoothed out the outer "rib" of the large splines but didn't get into the "groove" areas at all. When I get this hub apart I will definitely blunt the leading edges of the small splines to remove the point and hopefully keep them from gouging things up next time.

The hubs in the photos are actually part of the eXaXt 8-lug disc brake conversion kit. There is a large ~1" thick 8-lug spacer included as well, but the instructions don't talk about it. I'm assuming it's to help with folks who don't run massively backspaced wheels.

:usa:

I'm, sorry I can not. That guy Taradon (Don Henry) did my original 404 disk brake kit (like 8 years ago now). I just remeber him telling me about the tight factory fit, claiming he machines his hubs looser to make them easier to get back on (and more importantly, back off in the field if need be). I have never had to take one off, but as mentioned they did go on much easier. Point is, if someone just mic'd a bunch of stock hubs and machined them to those dimensions, they are probably going to be tight as hell also. Exaxt has been doing this along time, so I'd guess they know that fact. Maybe hit them up and ask, see what they say.

Greg72

10-11-2010, 05:53 PM

Agrover

10-11-2010, 09:49 PM

Greg72,Interesting thread and some nice work.
Because link suspensions is one of your specialties,could you edumacate me on link placement? If I am seeing it right your lower links are neither below or above the axle centreline, but at centreline height. Without drawing it out on paper, my minds eye tells me that with torque reaction, the axle tube tries to rotate around the axle shaft centre. When driving forward this places the top links under tension.If the lower links were located below centre they would be under compression. If they were located above centre they would be under tension, no? When located close to centre the axle tube would roll backwards and merely swing the lower link upwards until it was above centre before being placed under tension would it not?
Therefore would there not be several degrees of relatively unrestrained axle tube/housing rotation before torque reaction was controlled?

Re 3 link fronts. My weak 70 horsepower engined but very low geared LandRover with weeny 36'' tyres on custom portals has a rubber bushed 3 link with 10'' of vertical separation, 12'' total separation with the lower links 1 1/2'' below axle centreline. Observing torque reaction of the axle while surmounting say a 3ft high vertical wall indicates that this separation is adequate but only just so.Unless I'm way off with my earlier observations I can't see how a 3 or 4 link arrangement with lowers at or above axle centreline will work efficiently to control torque reaction.
Agrover.

Greg72

10-12-2010, 04:48 AM

10-12-2010, 06:19 AM

You don't have to worry about tension one bit if you designed the uppers well enough to handle compression. I broke my frame mount 3 times and my axle mount twice on my current 3 link mog setup (with the lowers right @ the center of axle tube), all due to compression.

No matter how much traction you can put the the ground, it will never be as much force as gravity provides when the tires come crashing down to earth. This pivots the uppers directly around the lowers with huge compression forces.

As said, the only way to equal it out is to give up the ground clearance advantage of the mogs and at that point, what is the point of mogs to begin with.

10-12-2010, 08:38 AM

2010.10.11 - UPDATE! - FRONT KNUCKLE TEARDOWN AND INSPECTIONS...

Does anyone recognize this type of weird machining pattern from their own front knuckles or from stuff you've seen?

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC04052.jpg

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC04054.jpg

There's a strange "non-factory" looking machining near the flange that bolts to the housing. It appears to be non-concentric to the original hole, and I can't figure out why this was done..... possible interference to the factory housing flange maybe?

Anyway, it's weird and I'm not sure how concerned to be about it. I spent a long time pressing out ALL the bushings and bearings so I'm down to just the cast parts, so now I can blast them and check for cracks, etc before painting them up and putting everything back together.

:usa:

Not sure exactly which section you are describing, but I don't see anything that is out of the ordinary and/or that I would be worried about.

If your talking about that straight indentation, it's probably from chiseling the sections apart. Mine have all kinds of strange marks, especially from the first time they came apart.

Greg72

10-12-2010, 08:44 AM

10-12-2010, 03:36 PM

My concern is actually that machined taper just outside of the bronze(?) bushing on the casting itself. It appears to be off-center relative to the casting, but centered with all other machined circular patterns on the knuckle.

The quality of that machining also shows what look like "chatter marks" in it which makes me wonder if it was a non-factory thing...like a mechanic at some point decided to clearance it more, or add a bevel that didn't originally exist there??

I don't know, it just seems out of place so I wanted to check to see how common (or uncommon) it really is.

-G
:usa:

That surface does not mate with anything. As long as the bronze bushing is "concentric" in relation to the o-ring surface and the pins, your good to go.

Might have been a rough machining done by Merc. just to taper that area for slight insertion help??? It's a big mass when you are putting the knuckle/portal/hub/brakes/axle assy back in as a unit.

New knuckle looks pretty much the same, but it's cast in with that taper (and not even all the way around from the looks of it).

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/GREEN_DILYSI/UNIMOG/KINGPIN%20FIX/DCP05074.JPG

Agrover

10-12-2010, 04:18 PM

Agrover,

I think it's a matter of degrees. Even if I placed the lower links below the axletube they are still NOT below the center of rotation of wheel itself. The lower links mount would need to be something like 8" lower to accomplish that, and not even the factory Unimog had a mount that low. The lower links will still be in compression but you're right that it won't be "balanced" against the tension of the upper links.

Ultimately, the forces are "weirder" on a portal axle. Triaged can probably explain it better than I can (He's the mechanical engineer, not me) so for me it's going to come down to building the links as beefy as I can with the 10" of seperation I've got. There's still a lot more plating and gusseting left to do but I didn't want to do it all until I am sure that the suspension cycles the way I want.

-G
:usa:
greg72,Thanks for your reply.
Must draw it out when I can find my compass, protractor etc. But the way I see it, Even with portals, torque reaction still wants to rotate the axle assembly around the upper axle shaft axis. The centre of the wheel just wants to swing forward,placing the lower link under compression, if mounted below upper axle centreline.What I'm not seeing at this stage is what the initial force is on a centre mounted link just prior to it coming under tension.
My minds eye once again sees a few degrees of unrestrained movement.
Whilst I more or less feel that I have my front end sorted, I do aspire in the future to replace my present One Link rear end with a 3 or 4 link arrangement, hence my interest in this particular aspect of your build.
Cheers.

Triaged

10-12-2010, 04:52 PM

The torque gets translated into only a force at the contact patch. The higher the lower links are from the ground the more load will be in them. Putting the links on the front of the axle with portals will be the same as putting the links above the axle tube on a standard axle. Nothing magical happens when the lower links cross the axle (or wheel) center line. Just look at the materials tab on the calculator.

fabhard

10-16-2010, 02:19 PM

That's about all the new status for now. If anyone has tips or suggestions please speak up....

:usa:

Interference fits. Heat the outside part, and freeze the inside part.

Greg72

10-24-2010, 05:09 AM

Here are a few pics of my 2nd try pressing the new 8-Lug hubs to the original 404 lower gear splines....

You can clearly see the gouges in the center of each of those wide splines where the small splines chiseled the material away. This is what was making the pressing of the parts so tough.

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC04083.jpg

The anti-seize shows where the contact was the highest. You can also see some curls of metal in the anti-sieze toward the bottom of the part.

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC04088.jpg

I cleaned up the inner hub splines to remove the galling, and then polished up all the sharp leading edges and transitions on the gear splines. The final results look like this...

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC04090.jpg

The 2nd attempt to press the parts together went much smoother, and I was able to get them fully seated this time. It's amazing how much pressing power gets wasted if the press isn't PERFECTLY lined up on the part and ends up pushing even just a little bit sideways. One of the struggles of a low-quality HF press, I suppose.

Here's a final shot of the test fit into an H2 wheel (no brake rotor or caliper yet). There is about 12" between the portal backing plate and the link mounts, so I'll be able to cut down the axletubes quite a bit and tuck those tires under the fenders a lot more.

All of this portal assembly, testing and learning seems to take forever....

:usa:

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC04104.jpg

Greg72

11-09-2010, 08:39 AM

2010.11.09 - UPDATE! - PREPARING TO MACHINE AXLETUBE ADAPTERS...

Cutting a set of front plates for the steer axle appears to be pretty straightforward.

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC04123.jpg

My plan was to just copy the hole pattern on this one, and open up the hole in the center to 3.5" (then add a few thousandths) to slide them over my Spidetrax axletubes. The adapter would be cut from 1" thick plate for strength.

The only change I was going to make was to create a more "flat" area across the top so that I'd have a good spot to put a digital angle finder when I was setting my caster angle. I don't think that the inner "C" requires anything special on the inside for a seal, so I'd probably just replicate the small chamfer of the factory part.

The rear axle is a bit more confusing. I want to remove the small intermediate housing and go directly from the large perimeter bolt pattern from the backing plate of the portal to a 3.5" center hole for the axletube.

As a reminder, here's the rear shaft and gear that passes through to the portal. There is a slight bevel after the bearing, but I don't think it seals to anything besides the seal on the backing plate.

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC04127.jpg

The question is how do I address this necked-down through hole? I don't remember any sort of seal other than the paper gasket, so I think it's only there to act as a crude oil dam in case any oil seeped into the axletubes from the pumpkin??

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC04128.jpg

The idea was a simple adapter plate like this, but with a 3.5" center hole:

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC04130.jpg

I'm all ears if someone cares to comment or make suggestions.

-G
:usa:

earnie

11-09-2010, 05:17 PM

I was going to copy wngrog's when he had a mog9 in his cruiser.http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=99378&stc=1&d=1071962858

Greg72

11-20-2010, 05:19 AM

Ford Brake Parts...... 1 pair for test fitting:

BIG!!!!

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC04147.jpg

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC04151.jpg

-G
:usa:

11-20-2010, 06:03 AM

Whats that caliper off of?

Greg72

11-20-2010, 07:08 AM

1995-97 Ford F250 (over 8500Lb GVW)

This version is loaded with SuperDuty pads.... it's pretty impressive.

-G
:usa:

11-21-2010, 06:45 AM

1995-97 Ford F250 (over 8500Lb GVW)

This version is loaded with SuperDuty pads.... it's pretty impressive.

-G
:usa:

Thought it looked familiar, I had a 95 F250 for a while.
I can't fit anything that big with the 406 boxes, even with 17's.

87yotabro87

11-21-2010, 07:04 AM

lookin good man! those brakes are huge! i like the build so far. keep it up

shaka 55

12-02-2010, 08:53 PM

maybe I missed it but what vehicle are the rotors off of? very interessted in how your brake set up works. I'm getting my mog axles any day now and the first thing I got to do is figure out the eight lug/disc conversoin. I like the idea of using Ford F-350 stuff because it is easy to find parts/cores ect. Love the build man. You got some serious bling going on. :smokin:

Greg72

12-03-2010, 06:24 AM

1995-97 Ford F250 (over 8500Lb GVW)

Same application as the calipers....

:usa:

Greg72

12-07-2010, 11:20 AM

Does anyone know the story for why Mercedes built such a complicated breather setup for the rear axle???

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/Pics417.jpg

The portal breathes through the uppermost bolt (like a banjo bolt) and then travels through that long tube almost 3/4 of the way around the perimeter of the seal area before venting into the axle housing.

My only guess is that it is supposed to act like a p-trap under the sink.... the oil is sits in the low spot of that breather tube and is supposed to prevent outside water from traveling backwards up into the portal itself??

In any case, I was giving serious consideration to removing this breather and putting a regular bolt into that hole instead. Then I'd drill a new breather hole into the portal housing itself (instead of trying to vent through the backing plate area) and venting it from there.

This would make my life a lot simpler than trying to machine my new axletube adapters to fit around this factory breather solution.

Anyone got ideas or cautions about this approach?

-G
:usa:

weps

12-07-2010, 06:25 PM

I agree with your idea of venting it someplace 'better', but have not changed any of mine.

xtremexj94

12-10-2010, 10:00 AM

That vent has been a non stop PITA for me since day one. I see so much water and mud most of the time that I have to drain the portals most days that I wheel. I am going to change mine up to one of those bellows like Trail Gear sells and just tap a fitting in the outer portal housing. At least that way it can still vent without letting all the fawking elements into my portals.:mad3:

Greg72

12-10-2010, 10:07 AM

Followup question:

Do you guys running Spidertrax housings actually use the inner seals around the axleshafts? I hear that the factory Ford 9" never used a seal in this area and the gear lube was free to move into the axletubes.

As long as I build the ends to seal correctly, I'm tempted to just leave the seals out of the centersection when I do my final assembly.

Pros / Cons?

-G
:usa:

uninformed

12-10-2010, 11:08 AM

dont know if its any help, but thats how alot over here run their Landrover/Range Rover FF axles. Lets the oil come right out and lube the splines to drive flange and wheel bearings.

great build
cheers,
Serg

xtremexj94

12-10-2010, 02:23 PM

Use the seals. That way it actually keeps the fluid in the diff instead of down the axle tube.

Greg72

12-10-2010, 02:37 PM

Use the seals. That way it actually keeps the fluid in the diff instead of down the axle tube.

The only reason I was asking is that it would seem like you'd be able to use a LOT more diff fluid if you were filling the axletubes (maybe 1/2 way full, I'll have to check where the fill plug lands).... more fluid wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing, and it might even stay cooler if it was using the axle tubes as a heatsink also. :confused:

I don't know much about factory Ford stuff, but I am being told that all Ford 9" setups always allowed fluid to travel to the ends and never used seals in the 3rd member area. It seems like it's a proven, viable solution and might make it easier on me later on when I go to get custom shafts made.... I'm not sure how much extra work it is to have them cut provisions for the oil seals, or how precisely those would have to fit to make them work properly.

Lots of questions still to be answered I suppose....but plenty of time before I need to make any final decisions.

-G
:usa:

uninformed

12-10-2010, 02:50 PM

Use the seals. That way it actually keeps the fluid in the diff instead of down the axle tube.

Are you saying that if you remove the seals the diff will run dry?

P'cola4x4

12-10-2010, 08:40 PM

So have you decided what color canvas your going to use? :D

Looks like its coming along nice. Nothing like pretty axels.

Greg72

12-16-2010, 08:12 AM

LOL!

Pirate4x4 viewers just gobbled up all my Photobucket bandwidth for December!

.... guess I'd better pony up for the "Pro" service or my pics will only be visible for about the first 5 days of each month!

:usa:

xtremexj94

12-16-2010, 09:26 AM

Are you saying that if you remove the seals the diff will run dry?

No, but let's say you're on a major side hill with the long side tube down, most of your fluid will be out of the diff in the tube. For short, low rpm distances it won't be a problem, but I like to have all the fluid doing what it's supposed to.

12-16-2010, 02:28 PM

No, but let's say you're on a major side hill with the long side tube down, most of your fluid will be out of the diff in the tube. For short, low rpm distances it won't be a problem, but I like to have all the fluid doing what it's supposed to.

but that is every rear axle I know of. They all run oil in the tubes and have no problem running low on diff fluid. You'd have to side hill for 10 minutes @ roll over angles or more to get anything significant out of the diff into the tubes.
Oil still has to "bleed" though diff bearings to get into tubes too, so it's not like it's wide open.

Greg72

12-21-2010, 09:29 AM

I receieved a couple of 1/8" aluminum test patterns from a buddy of mine who will be machining the Spidertrax-to-404 adapter plates. My axles have a 3.5" axletube and these parts will help to cleanly adapt directly to the backing plates (or Inner "C") and I won't have to use the intermediate Mog axle spacer (for the rear)...

I've decided to ditch the factory breather tube contraption and go with a more traditional breather port on the gear housing instead.

Front axle adapter:

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC04209.jpg

Rear Axle adapter (without seal and center plate):

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC04212.jpg

With center plate installed (breather stuff removed):

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC04218.jpg

Now that I've confirmed that all the holes are perfect the final pieces will be machined out of 1.5" thick steel plate. I wanted to check these critical dimensions beforehand so I didn't waste a bunch of expensive material and CNC machine time.

:usa:

jugganot

12-22-2010, 10:00 AM

....and how do you remove that captive bearing race when it's buried in a pocket like that? Do I need a special puller of some sort?:usa:

Here's a trick for ya:
I know it's long past, but maybe you can use this in the future. When trying to remove a bearing race that you no longer will be using, weld a bead around the inside circumference of the race on the bearing mating surface. Then quickly cool the weld with either compressed air or a wet rag. By doing this the race is quickly shrunk and will( most of the time) just fall out with a couple of taps on the back side. Some larger races, six inches or so, will most likely require two beads, one on the inside edge of the bearing mating surface and one on the outside edge of the bearing mating surface. Any type of welding procedure will work but MIG is preferred for its speed. Hope this helps...

Great pics and details, loving this build-up. Keep up the good work.:grinpimp:

xtremexj94

12-22-2010, 01:02 PM

but that is every rear axle I know of. They all run oil in the tubes and have no problem running low on diff fluid. You'd have to side hill for 10 minutes @ roll over angles or more to get anything significant out of the diff into the tubes.
Oil still has to "bleed" though diff bearings to get into tubes too, so it's not like it's wide open.

You run yours how you like and I'll run mine how I like. How's that for compromise? :flipoff2:

12-22-2010, 04:00 PM

You run yours how you like and I'll run mine how I like. How's that for compromise? :flipoff2:

Knock yourself out, but the "problem" you describe still does not exist :flipoff2:

Greg72

12-28-2010, 09:28 AM

I finally got around to working on the Exaxt disc brake installation to see how hard it would be...

Lower caliper mount bracket installed...

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC04227.jpg

Clearancing of caliper hanger to clear 404 gear housing...

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC04229.jpg

Some clearancing of the wheelstud boltheads to allow the rotor to fit over the center hub. This also shows the newly clearance caliper bracket and how it fits...

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC04235.jpg

Top caliper mount assembled...

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC04242.jpg

Entire assembly together. The rotor and brake assembly looks positively massive compared to the portal housing itself. I like it! :smokin:

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC04255.jpg

Fitment inside a 17" H2 wheel... No rubbing.

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC04265.jpg

1 down......3 more to go. :D

:usa:

tjmark

12-28-2010, 10:48 AM

Looks clean.

12-28-2010, 12:23 PM

Very Purdy!!!!!!!!!

Also confirms that there is no way I can use a caliper like that with my 406's and 17's. Heck they barely fit with the 404 boxes it seems.

S.frimodt

12-28-2010, 12:24 PM

Mmmm nice..

Greg72

01-04-2011, 09:38 AM

use a magnet to pull the needle bearings out and count them!
you will need to press that pin out. in true german fashion it is a .004 press per inch of diameter:shaking:

ok, not really THAT tight, but too much to free up without tools.
upon re-assembly, I use a flapper/sanding roll to open up the ID so that by freezing the pin overnight it slides right in. (yeah, like that):grinpimp:

Finally got around to disassembling the trunnions yesterday, so that I can clean up the front backing plates for paint and then re-assemble with disc brake parts.

For future reference there are a total of 31 needle bearings in each one of those assemblies.

...and the center pin was pretty hard to press out, just as I was warned that it would be. Not as hard as pressing the hubs to the large gears, but it definitely took some "tonnage" from the press to get them out.

When it comes time to reassemble the trunnions, I'm not sure what the simplest way is going to be. I loaded the upper gear/ trunnion into the press while it was still assembled as part of the backing plate. I didn't want to mess around with the large screw and bearings on the inside of the gearbox (yet)... I have a feeling the correct way is to press the centerpin back into place, reload all the needle bearings with some Mobil1 grease and put the caps back on.....THEN, install into the backing plate and secure the inside gear and bearing parts???

The trunnions do not seem to have a grease fitting like a traditional u-joint which seems wierd. The center pin has holes at each end but they do not appear to travel all the way through as a way to pump grease into the parts. It seems strange that this part has no simple way to add fresh grease except to completely disassemble, clean and re-pack it. :confused:

:usa:

weps

01-04-2011, 07:03 PM

look at the little flat 'cap' plates that cover the needle bearings.
there is a 'thick'(er) outer plate that has the countersink for the screws. there is another 'thin'(er) plate and paper gaskets.
you will notice a tiny bulge cut out in the paper. also that the 4 bolts are not evenly spaced, so these covers can only go on two ways, not 4.
properly lined up, when you grease the CV's, grease will go thru the little rubber "O" ring deals thru everything, and eventually grease/lube will end up under these covers and lube the 31 needle bearings.

sorry, I do not have a pic handy, but you will see what I mean.

Greg72

01-17-2011, 05:52 AM

Thanks Andy,

It's starting to make more sense now, I spent some more time cleaning and studying those parts. Interestingly the caps on the other two side only have 29 needle bearings and slightly smaller shafts.

After cleaning everything and blowing out the holes with compressed air I was able to see that there is a passage drilled in the trunnion center to allow the grease to flow to the other bearings too.

It seems like a pretty complicated solution overall, but I guess it works... When everything is fully cleaned, painted and reassembled with new Mobil1 grease they should be good to go for a long time. I hope that's true because these trunnion and axle assemblies are really tedious to take apart and service

01-17-2011, 07:10 AM

weps

01-17-2011, 07:56 AM

Glad to help:)

FrankenRover

01-17-2011, 10:22 AM

2010.10.11 - UPDATE! - FRONT KNUCKLE TEARDOWN AND INSPECTIONS...

Does anyone recognize this type of weird machining pattern from their own front knuckles or from stuff you've seen?

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC04052.jpg

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC04054.jpg
:usa:

Nice work so far. I can't wait to see the finished product.

The orientation of that brass bushings in the inner C section has caused some problems for folks. That bushing has nothing but it's own interference fit holding it in. I've had it migrate into the axle housing along the axle shaft several times. Even after installing a new one with good bearing compound to hold it in. When the bushing falls inside your cv starts banging around in the knuckle.

The fix for me was to go outside/in with the bushing as opposed to inside out. That way the bushing is held in with the outer axle seal and the steel dust cover.

This only happened on my long side axle side. And the axle had been modified and shortened and the diff flipped to the other side by exact. Though I have heard of a few other folks experiencing similar problems.

Here is an old thread about it.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=663104&highlight=

Greg72

01-18-2011, 05:57 AM

FrankenRover,

Thank you! This is exactly the type of helpful feedback that I was hoping for when I started this thread... It seems like the sort of thing that won't be hard to address, but of course I would never have known about it unless someone clued me in.

I'll be sure to spend some time thinking about a better retaining system for that bushings when I start the reassembly process. Installing the bushings backwards, or machining a retaining lip into the mating flange both sound like perfectly good solutions.

:USA:

Greg72

01-18-2011, 01:18 PM

A few new progress pics of the RF knuckle...... mostly cleaning and painting of the original parts, and a few reference photos for items that I'll need to purchase (small seals, o-rings, paper gaskets, etc)

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC04321.jpg

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC04326.jpg

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC04327.jpg

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC04329.jpg

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC04334.jpg

:usa:

Greg72

01-19-2011, 06:56 AM

Interesting data point:

I called Scott over at Expedition Imports to get some of the small replacement parts and asked him a little bit about those bronze guides for the inner C's. He mentioned that the correct installation requires the bushing to be soaked in hot oil (as mentioned previously) for something like 8 hours and that there is a special Mercedes tool (of course! :shaking:) that you need to use to press it in place and set it correctly.

I don't know if I understood him correctly but it sounded like he was describing it as a sort of eccentric bushing which needed to be aligned properly. :confused: It sounded like if this bushing was simply pressed into place without also getting the alignment perfect, this could lead to the "backing out" issues that people have described. He also suggested the use of the Loctite Green (Bearing retainer type) to hold things in place.

Anyway, it's more food for thought. It really is annoying how many specialty tools are required (and either don't exist anymore, or are insane $$$) to "properly" service one of these axles.

:usa:

FrankenRover

01-19-2011, 12:13 PM

I would also suggest that once it is together and lubed you cap the lower ball joint zerk fitting. It pretty vulnerable.

Greg72

01-24-2011, 07:34 AM

Not much progress when the temperature is -10 F.... :eek:

Got a few more parts cleaned and painted before giving up and going back in the house. It was hard keeping the shop warm, and painting with the doors closed isn't all that brilliant of an idea.

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC04341.jpg

-G
:usa:

dietercas

01-25-2011, 11:22 AM

this is the real shit , i did it my self and i am not happy the way it is assembled, to losen them i needed 50 ton also to re assemble 50 ton an loking whit the eye if its good , the joints ? half and half good
realy shit now it runs well but i do not overspeed 60 km /u often

unimogken

01-25-2011, 05:56 PM

It really is annoying how many specialty tools are required (and either don't exist anymore, or are insane $$$) to "properly" service one of these axles.
I know that Scott has mentioned before that they had a tool rental program for some of their tools so you might want to check with him to see if they rent that one out.

uninformed

01-25-2011, 11:25 PM

how hard would some of these speacialty tools be to reproduce.. ;)

Agrover

02-03-2011, 02:44 PM

Not much progress when the temperature is -10 F.... :eek:

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC04341.jpg

-G
:usa:

Those CV joints are insanely complicated and expensive looking.Do they have an equalising ball and socket device like a Spicer double cardan joint?I would think not, and If not would there be enough space in the Cs to just siamese 2 spicer universal joints with bolt or weld together flanged yokes for the middle section? and reworking Dana style yoked axle shafts if doing a custom width housing?
agrover

Aaronius

02-03-2011, 05:08 PM

Those CV joints are insanely complicated and expensive looking.Do they have an equalising ball and socket device like a Spicer double cardan joint?I would think not, and If not would there be enough space in the Cs to just siamese 2 spicer universal joints with bolt or weld together flanged yokes for the middle section? and reworking Dana style yoked axle shafts if doing a custom width housing?
agrover

You mean something like this? http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=663009&highlight=cv&page=2

The CV's aren't that complicated, just odd. They function quite well, so if it ain't broke...

Agrover

02-07-2011, 03:36 AM

You mean something like this? http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=663009&highlight=cv&page=2

The CV's aren't that complicated, just odd. They function quite well, so if it ain't broke...

No I was thinking of a CV joint made from 2 standard spicer joints back to back, not a single D60 joint.I would think 2 d44 joints operating at 25 degrees each would still be stronger than a single D60 joint operating at 50 degrees.
The Mog Cvs may function well an all, but they appear to be unique to mogs and probably pricey .

xtremexj94

03-17-2011, 07:25 AM

Any updates Greg? Also wondering if you could post up a pic of a front upper outer stub shaft without the bearing on. I need to have a quick look at something and I haven't been able to find anything online that show's just the stub. Thanks.:smokin:

Greg72

03-17-2011, 09:50 AM

I've got some custom CNC bling on the way (Shipped last night).... that will be the next real update.

As for the stubs, I have them set aside but never pulled the gear/bearing off so I don't think a pic is going to do you much good. I don't like disassembling things more than I have to for fear of losing parts, or forgetting how to re-assemble after weeks away from the workbench!!

:usa:

xtremexj94

03-17-2011, 12:10 PM

As for the stubs, I have them set aside but never pulled the gear/bearing off so I don't think a pic is going to do you much good. I don't like disassembling things more than I have to for fear of losing parts, or forgetting how to re-assemble after weeks away from the workbench!!

:usa:

Yeah, I know that feeling all too well. A pic of the CV side is really what I'm looking for.:)

tjmark

03-17-2011, 12:34 PM

Hey Greg been enjoying your build and the pics. What is being CNCed?:)

Will this work for ya?

xtremexj94

03-21-2011, 08:01 AM

Hey Greg been enjoying your build and the pics. What is being CNCed?:)

Will this work for ya?

That's exactly what I was looking for Mark. Sorry to clutter your thread Greg.:emb2:

Greg72

04-14-2011, 07:14 AM

Hey Greg been enjoying your build and the pics. What is being CNCed?:)

Will this work for ya?

Front and Rear Spidertrax 3.5" axletube -> to -> Mog 404 portal box adapters...

So far only the fronts are done (these weld to the axletube and bolt to the inner "C")...

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/Front001.jpg

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/Front002.jpg

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/Front003.jpg

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/Front004.jpg

The rears are a little more involved because I'm having them made to adapt directly from the axletube to the large perimeter bolt pattern on the back of the portal (I'm elminating the 404 intermediate housing adapter).

Hopefully the rears will be done in a few more weeks. I want to get the rear set up with the complete Exaxt disc brakes, wheels, tires, etc and set the track width with everything in place. Once I have the rear figured out, I'll know what my front track width has to be to match and I can cut down the axletubes (measure twice, cut once!!! :D).

I really want to push the front pumpkin as hard to the PS as I can to miss the oilpan, but then I end up with some crazy framerail modifications to allow for some uptravel on that side. There are going to be problems to solve no matter what....

-G
:usa:

camomog

04-14-2011, 05:39 PM

So are any of these pieces going to be available to buy for those of us wanting to build Mog-9's?

Greg72

04-15-2011, 03:52 AM

You'll have to ask weps..... Maybe he can convince Branik to offer something.

Personally, I'm having a hard enough time getting my own build finished so I don't have any time left over to make "extra" parts to sell...

These axles are really tedious and expensive to build. Even if ALL of the custom parts were available off-the-shelf it is still a huge financial commitment. I just keep spending and spending and telling myself that it will be worth it when they are finally finished.

-G
:usa:

weps

04-15-2011, 05:46 AM

You'll have to ask weps..... Maybe he can convince Branik to offer something.

These axles are really tedious and expensive to build. Even if ALL of the custom parts were available off-the-shelf it is still a huge financial commitment. I just keep spending and spending and telling myself that it will be worth it when they are finally finished.

:usa:
Thanks for the kind words.
Branik does currently make the flanges, but they are not as intricate as the ones pictured. 125$ a pair (yeah, they have a yellow star)
You have the 'tedious' part down pat. Cool when they are done, but a lot of work, and it seems 'everything' needs some mod or another.
I regeared my rig for the TREC race, and LOVE the new speeds that I can reach even with my doggy motor. swapping the center 9's was about 1.5 hrs per axle. I like that alot.
I will probably never go back to the 3.5 center section gears though.

Greg72

04-20-2011, 08:55 AM

Andy,

What are you running for gears now in the chunk? 2.47? 2.50? 2.75?

I'd love to run a set of 2.47s but still can't find any sources where I can buy them "new" or NOS. Plenty of sources have them used, but running used gears really seems like a crapshoot....

-G
:usa:

weps

04-22-2011, 09:02 AM

I am running 2.75 gears. I have had good luck running used gears. One set I got off of craigslist for 5$:eek:
shipping was 15......

Hvy_Chevy

04-23-2011, 01:18 PM

you see this one?
http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=901958

Greg72

06-08-2011, 07:42 AM

After a long delay....... I finally have the rear portal box-to-Spidertrax housing adapter photos:

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/RearMogPlates1.jpg

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/RearMogPlates2.jpg

These are fairly self-explanatory...instead of using the 12" intermediate bolt-on factory adapter, I had a machinist go straight from the bolt pattern on the rear of the portal box to the 3.5" opening on the Spidertrax housing. I'm never going to do rear-steer so I didn't see the value of doing it any other way. Also, this gives me a lot more weldable metal in the area just behind the portal box to add bracketry, shock mounts, and bracing. Everything I've read about the Mog adapter indicates that it's nearly impossible to weld to.

I'm hoping to get out into the shop next week to install these. I'll finally be able to set my rear track width and from there I can set up the front axle to match.......then it's time to figure out a front 4-link and steering with whatever room is left over!

:usa:

xj9140

06-08-2011, 08:27 AM

WOW. What were those built from? One and quarter inch plate? CNC end Mill? BADASS

YELLOWHOBO

06-08-2011, 08:45 AM

Looking pretty sweeet!

You'll definately be strong enough with those because I have never broke a backing plate. Sure would like to them! What are you going to do for boxes? WEPS, Stock or machine your own?

Greg72

06-08-2011, 08:50 AM

The plates are 1.5" cold rolled steel milled in some crazy HAAS walk-in type machine

I bought a set of the MSI boxes a few years ago so I think I've got most of the weak links covered now?

:usa:

YELLOWHOBO

06-08-2011, 09:43 AM

Yah, you got them covered... your rig is going to be really nice!

Only thing that I can think of is the CV joint will be the weakest link for you now. You might be able to machine those ears out of some exoticly strong material since you have done everthing else.

I'm jealous!

tjmark

06-08-2011, 10:37 AM

YELLOWHOBO

06-08-2011, 11:59 AM

Yah, I've broken a couple, but I clearance the middle ring and the ears for more steering and I compete in a couple of rock crawling series where they make us do some funny stuff (ie: big drop-offs and throttle happy climbs). Still, if I have done it 2 times... it can happen. Both times have been done in a comp - never on the trail...

Greg72

06-22-2011, 06:26 AM

OK, Here are a few new photo updates now that I have those adapters in my own shop...

In position to show where they attach to the portal backing plate.

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC04384.jpg

Overall shot of the 404 Portal / Exaxt 8-Lug Disc Brake combo / and Adapter:

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC04411.jpg

I only used a 3/8" spacer (not the 1" spacer as provided by Exaxt) and ended up with a 15.875" height from cement floor to underside of the level.

Spidertrax axle cut-down to 50.875" (inner plate to inner plate) with the new adapters installed. This will give me a final WMS-to-WMS measurement of 70.625"

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC04425.jpg

I decided not to align the pinion (.94" offset) to the transfercase output shaft. The axle is completely symmetrical from side to side. All of the feedback I solicited from various people and manufacturers said that it won't make any difference to the operation and won't create any weird vibes on the highway....

And in case any of you are wondering, here is a recent shot of the project vehicle that it's being built for... 1972 Chevy Blazer :smokin:

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/DSC04375.jpg

:usa:

zebrajeep

06-22-2011, 07:45 AM

Nice! Sweet build. Subscribed.

jays68yak

06-22-2011, 07:50 AM

I always tend to forget that your building a badass blazer in your garage.

Greg72

06-22-2011, 07:56 AM

MNtal

06-22-2011, 10:29 AM

Greg72,

Very awsome, I really enjoy reading your tech, thank you...

Geoff,

jays68yak

06-22-2011, 12:47 PM

Yakkers,

What I wouldn't give for about 1000 sq ft of dedicated shop space right about now..... :beer:

It gets really tiring having to constantly fight for space to get things done. I think my efficiency is down to about 30% of what it could be if I had the room to spread out more and maybe squeeze a 2-post lift in somewhere.

:usa:

Ah the single life with a 2 car garage. But yeah 1000 sq ft would be way nicer then 400sq ft. sq ftage goes quick when you gotta have the tools, storage, and the vehicle. Not to mention having some working room. What about another project to side line you and add on to the garage?

Greg72

06-22-2011, 12:55 PM

What about another project to side line you and add on to the garage?

That's the plan.....I've already got the money saved up to do it.

My S.O. indicates that my priorities are completing the living room / dining room and kitchen remodels FIRST.....and THEN we can start blowing out the garage to add a 3rd bay and workshop space (with a luxurious 2-post lift). :smokin:

Believe me, I'm extremely motivated to get the house projects done so I can get some REAL workspace for myself. But like you said, the actual truck build will end up mothballed for at least 6 months while the new shop gets built and finished-out.

:usa:

Greg72

06-27-2011, 08:07 AM

jays68yak

06-27-2011, 12:52 PM

Does anyone have an accurate dimensioned drawing of the Ford 9" ???

Here is my best attempt to measure off a scale-drawing and pull the pinion offset dimension (horizontal and vertical).....

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/Ford9-inchPinionOffset.jpg

:usa:

http://www.trailslesstraveled.com/resources/cadlibrary/file/ford-9-third-member/

Ive used that several times. Have a few 9 inches modeled semi-completely off of it. Also made a measuring tool with that file and the plasma.

Triaged

06-27-2011, 07:42 PM

On a ford 9" the hypoid offset is 2-1/4" (from axle centerline down to pinion centerline). The other I think is 15/16". If you need something more accurate I could look it up.

Greg72

07-03-2011, 03:12 AM

Some recent mock-ups trying to effectively integrate an axle truss, plus upper & lower link mounts and a coil over mount in a small amount of space....

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/IMG_1005.jpg

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/IMG_1006.jpg

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/IMG_1007.jpg

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/IMG_1008.jpg

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/IMG_1009.jpg

I've got 10" of link separation between the uppers and lowers, (pretty good) but I'm still trying to add as much gusseting as possible to anchor that tall upper link mount. Ultimately, I think it will get that same triangular gusseting on both sides....these photos currently only show one one the pumpkin side.

:usa:

wanna

07-24-2011, 12:56 AM

looks good i see you used part numbers BRCLS-7-RM and BRCLS-6-RM for your calipers whats the part number for the disc brake rotors? Australia's so fun for getting parts

Greg72

07-25-2011, 07:41 AM

The rotors were Motorcraft also..... here's a clip from the original order from racepages.com

Brake Disc 1995 - 1998
Ford F-250 Motorcraft Brake Disc F-250 Motorcraft Price: $ 79.18 Qty: 2.00 Part #: MIBRR4

Hope that helps!

-G
:usa:

wanna

07-25-2011, 04:29 PM

perfect thankyou

Slowerthanu

08-15-2011, 09:58 AM

Awesome project, very clean workspace.

I'm only disappointed that I came into this project halfway (not even) through. Now I have to wait.

Greg72

08-15-2011, 10:44 AM

Appreciate the kind words...

I'd like to make some better progress also. Too many home improvement projects are queued-up right now and with a new baby in the house there just aren't many hours left these days.

I've got a birthday coming up in the next few weeks, so I'm going to be campaigning for a couple days of "shop time"... hopefully that will allow me to get the rear truss built in steel and tack-welded in place.

That would allow me to reconnect the link mounts and maybe throw a couple of solid tubes where the ORIs are supposed to be, and get the truck sitting under it's own weight (in the rear at least)

:usa:

postaldave

08-15-2011, 10:52 AM

some people are so skilled I wonder why they even buy axles, clearly
they can build what ever they want and can't leave anything they buy as it is.

wicked cool build. thumbs up

Greg72

09-08-2011, 07:42 AM

Quick update......

Not much happening in the workshop these days, but I was at least able to transfer my foam core templates into 1/4" plate and get them tacked onto the housing. Some recent feedback has shown me that my original placement of the lower strut mount is NOT going to work without interference, so that is going to need to be redesigned.

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/IMG_1157.jpg

I'm trying to build the truss using the "Corner-to-corner" method with the individual plates. It makes it impossible to weld them together unless you have something to clamp all the parts to so that they will stay in place for alignment and tack welding...

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/IMG_1161.jpg

Fitment took forever, but I was able to keep the gaps really small everywhere, even as the truss traveled over the complex bump-formed housing

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/IMG_1165.jpg

The inside of the truss lines up with the mounting face of the 3rd member so everything will stay nice and flush...

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/IMG_1167.jpg

The beginning of my upper link mount bracket...

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/IMG_1194.jpg

:usa:

jrod66

11-18-2011, 10:14 AM

when I originally did my 404 axle swap I had my lower link mounts inline with the axle housing like you have now, but I ended up dropping the mounting hole and ultimately the link mount because of axle wrap and the leverage that the boxes have on the axle due to the portal design, From the looks of your fab skills and design you probably already thought of it, but just an FYI :D

Greg72

11-18-2011, 07:40 PM

We covered some of those topics / concerns around post 60, and then again around 112.

Some people insist that the lower link mount needs to be below the axle tube, but my assertion is that it has a lot more to do with link separation (the largest you can fit) than the specific link position on the axle tube.

For sure, there are some big forces with all that gear reduction... So as I'm sure you've noticed, I'm building the bracketry out of 1/4" in most places and in some spots I'm laminating it as thick as 1/2" to reinforce bolt holes, etc. I definitely don't want to have to go back later and rebuild these hangers and brackets!

-G

fcfred

01-19-2012, 02:38 PM

any updates?

Greg72

01-19-2012, 02:49 PM

Sorry to say..... This thread is up-to-date.

There were only two "garage days" for me in 2011; Fathers Day and my birthday.

New baby in the house, and all that. Not a complaint, just the reality of things these days.

2012 should be better but probably still not as fast as people around here would like. :)

-G

WIX

01-19-2012, 08:02 PM

Very nice work, just re-read your thread. Going with the nines will most likely be my next upgrade.
I am also using the disk brake conversion from exaxt. Recently I have torn down my rear to convert it to a steering axle. The big bolts for the caliper brackets from exaxt with the Allen head have completely siezed up in the spacers (also provided from exaxt). Had to cut 2 of the bolts up one side. Are those bolts machined by exaxt? Ive tried calling but just get a full mail box.

Greg72

01-20-2012, 04:59 AM

I don't think they are custom... If you can get one out cleanly you should be able to find a match somewhere. Speaking of rust, I'd love to go through my entire project and systematically replace EVERY nut and bolt with an ARP stainless GR-8 version. I hate dealing with frozen, rusty bolts.

-G

Black Bull

01-30-2012, 06:14 PM

Nice work. :smokin:
From a Mog Novice, I think it's safe to say this is one of the most informative threads I've read yet.
Here's hoping 2012 will bring lots of shop time :grinpimp:

Jwbogger

01-30-2012, 06:36 PM

Here's hoping 2012 will bring lots of shop time :grinpimp:

:beer:

Greg72

01-31-2012, 06:19 AM

You guys are too kind....

Let's keep in mind that when it comes to the Mog-9, I'm a complete novice also. The whole reason for starting this thread was to document what I was doing in the hopes that people with "real" experience would help me along as they saw me struggling.

From that perspective, this thread has been an unqualified success. Based on the number of views it seems like it's becoming a good reference for folks here, as well as providing an unvarnished look at the struggles and costs involved.

-G

charlie2tight

05-01-2012, 06:06 AM

any updates? bump:)

Greg72

05-01-2012, 06:37 AM

any updates? bump:)

Waiting for Father's Day as my next shop day I guess..... :shaking: Things have definitely slowed way down on this build. My little boy just turned 15 months old and any spare time I find gets enjoyed with him these days.

The only good news (if you want to call it that) is that this "Might As Well" build is 100% cash-built so I'm not just racking up credit card debt while it sits quietly in the garage... less temptation to "just sell it" to recoup money to pay off the CC bills that way. The money required to finish it is already set aside, so once I get some spare time at least I won't be held up trying to save money for ARBs, custom axleshafts, etc.

-G

Tazer15

05-02-2012, 07:37 AM

No No dont trouble yourself on fathers day might as well spend it with the baby too.If your only getting a day or so every couple months to wrench might as well give it up.Im in the process of starting a set for my self just send what you have my way kill 2 birds with one stone I dont have to order much to finish mine and you dont have to find time to work on yours!Ill even keep the thread goin for everyone.:flipoff2:

Greg72

05-02-2012, 07:42 AM

What? And deprive you all the fun of sourcing parts and dumping thousands of dollars at a time each step of the way? :)

Tell you what.....start a build thread for your Mog-9s on this forum, and we'll have a friendly competition to see who's finished first! LOL

-G

Tazer15

05-02-2012, 10:42 AM

My jeep and tow rig both broke about the same time so mine have taken a back seat to getting those goin again.I should be able to start on the mogs by the end of month tho.A race????man youve got a huge jump on me!Unless in the mean time you wanna send back all the parts youve bought and well have a start date of june 1.Let the race begin!:D

big_rigger

05-02-2012, 11:52 AM

Add Content

513

05-02-2012, 07:27 PM

I don't venture over to the Mercedes board, but I'm glad I saw this! Always enjoy a well though out build and thanks for sharing your build in such detail, keep up the good work and enjoy your time with the little one.. :beer:

Greg72

05-16-2012, 07:43 AM

Not much of an update, but I did spend last Saturday in the shop and got the other half of the truss cut out and tacked into place, along with the upper link mount tower....

Start of the day....cut off old temporary link mount.

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/d629c034.jpg

Cleaned up the axletube in preparation for the truss...

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/f2e96fd5.jpg

New PS truss parts coming together...

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/58e271ed.jpg

Truss completed (rear view):

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/165782e8.jpg

Truss completed (front view):

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/3d6b703f.jpg

Side view shot to show upper link mounts relative to axle centerline (1" forward of CL):

http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/gregblanchette/K5%20Gallery/4b20f5e4.jpg

That's about all the progress for now... hoping to steal another day in the garage over the Memorial Day weekend and maybe get the lower link mounts built. After that I can hang the completed portal assemblies on the ends, bolt up my wheels and roll it underneath the truck to see how things look. :)

-G