Guys, I want to hear your opinions about the stock sammi axles.
Mainly:
Are they good for 'wheeling with 36" SS TSLs if you upgraded the shafts?

I know the other popular options are Toyota mini truck and Dana 44.
I am wanting to build a sammi so that I can use parts that I have to overlook for my heavy YJ and also so that I can have something dedicated for offroad.

There are several guys in my club that have samuari's and they have not retained the stockers. Should I take this as a clue? One has a 44/9" combo and the other uses Toys. They are running 37" and 39" tires, though.

Let me have your opinions.

No.

hey, it's tuesday, right?

thats just rediculous. You would need to truss the axel, replace the axle shafts, as well as the birfields with chromolly. The spider gears will need to be replaced to probably. Even if you do this and get the axels strong enough to handle the big tires, You better upgrade your drive shaft and ujoints and put the tcase in a bucket with new mounting arms and braces for it and the tranny. Once you step over a 33" tire you've gone on to the next stage of the disease.

Guys,

Before you start gettin' all defensive, the question had to be asked. If I search for dana 44, boom; tons of results. If I search for Dana 60, again tons of results.

Now, when I searched for sammi axles, I got 1 set of chromoly axles for the front. I was trying to determine if the lack of results was because of lack of interest or because of the weak ass nature of the beast.

You can "it's tuesday" all you want, but the question was posed due to the lack of pertinant data. Like I mentioned earlier, there are lost of people's experience on the 44 and the 60 and the toys that can tell you the X-inch tire honestly needs Y modifications to the axle for it to survive. Use this thread to say, "I broke stock axles on 31's" or "I broke it by looking at it."

The last time I looked, there was only 2 pages of zuk threads to read. Lets build the board, not just bitch about people calling your pile a "jeep."

There are 576 pages in the Suzuki forum. Paying members see all and you can search also.

Also spelling things right normally works better. Slang is the hardest part of it all. Drop one of the M's and you will get 1365 threads.

If you try to get pissy with us, you wont get help. Im in a good mood. In my eyes, 75ish% of zuk owners swap axles because its easier on them and the wallet. 15ish% never go bigger then 31-32's. The last 5% are the guys that are purists or the guys that just wanna try it.

Try this thread Who still runs sami axles? (http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=838576&highlight=sami+axles)

No offnese anyone but if you plan on going large then get the Yota axles from the start. If you plan on 33" or smaller then the stockers upgraded I think will be fine. Like I said if you want to go larger than 33" then the stock Yota axles will be fine in a light rig.

There are 576 pages in the Suzuki forum. Paying members see all and you can search also.

Also spelling things right normally works better. Slang is the hardest part of it all. Drop one of the M's and you will get 1365 threads.

If you try to get pissy with us, you wont get help. Im in a good mood. In my eyes, 75ish% of zuk owners swap axles because its easier on them and the wallet. 15ish% never go bigger then 31-32's. The last 5% are the guys that are purists or the guys that just wanna try it.



No offnese anyone but if you plan on going large then get the Yota axles from the start. If you plan on 33" or smaller then the stockers upgraded I think will be fine. Like I said if you want to go larger than 33" then the stock Yota axles will be fine in a light rig.

Toy, thats great. I honestly tried searching unsing both "samurai" and "sammi", just not "sami." I figured that there were more than the 5% that would try it but if not, then it's not worth my time begging for parts.

If you want pissy, you should try that jeep pages. Your feet get wet just looking in there. It's like walking into a bathroom at a nfl stadium after halftime:shaking:

Manny, thanks. This is the definition that I was looking for.

I guess that I am not finding hop up parts for the axles because they aren't worth it for my purposes. I guess you guys have ridden this out before, but I'm just learning the "smaller world." My club that I am a member of is "go big or go home" when it comes to jeeps and I refuse to pay $4-$6k for a D60 front axle. I just need to adjust and figure out what is the "new gold" of the Suzuki builder world.

Here's how it went for me over the years.
Stock sami axles on 29's. with lockers.:nuke:
upgraded front axles on 31's with lockers.:nuke:
Went to stock toyota's with 35 claws and locked. 2 birfields the first year.
Upgraded with 30 spline longs, hub gears and 36 bias Irocks a few years ago and its holding up very well, other then a diff. pin and one R&P.
PS. I get out of the parking lot. Maybe that why I break shit????

I run 35's on sami axles, trussed, chromoly shafts, spool in the rear and an open front. i wouldnt recomend running anything over 33" on a sami axle, unless your prepaired to break stuff and/or have some drivin finess.

i havent broken anything yet, except for some twisted up t case mounts. but im prepaired to replace it on the trail when needed.

i belong to a site pretty much dedicated to suzuki's and there is tons of info there if the jeep guys wont help.but here is some advice from someone who deals with them daily skip the big tires unless you goto yota's or bigger,44's are about thee same strength wise as yota's .i'm going post just a few reasons why people change axles in sami's 1. anything over a 31' tire will require major modifications such as birf's and axles,gears. 2.sami's dont have enough power to turn big tires unless a doubler or low gears are installed,3. steering is impossible with big tires unless a hydro or tracker ps are installed.putting large tires on a sami really makes them tippy again unless major modifications are done (ie.) wheel spacers and stretching wheel base get some yota's and save yourself alot of work and money! i run 40"tires on a tracker with yota's with no breakage as of yet.

1st off 4-5k for a D60 WTF....i see these all day long for $600 you got to look in the south west desert dude!

as far as the sami axles go there umm crap at best. they bend easy and the shafts are small. go toys there easy. ok there harder to find out east but you can get them.

the D44 are ok as well but as long as you stay light.. the front you can get good shafts for no issues, the rear not so much, you can find full float kits for them and it helps out but the rear is still a weak point.

full size- a D60 front is 600#'s man so you got to have lots of gear to get the crap movin. a corp 14 bolt is strong as hell but gear are maxxed at 5.12 and there huge, a D70 from a dodge 1st gen diesel is a good option. bigger shafts than a corp 14 and gear up in the 7's if yo ucan find a 1st gen diesel dodge get it sell the engine and trans it will sell fast and for what you paid for the truck! steel the axles and go.

i run toys with 37" creepy crwalers the rear has no issues as of yet, going on 3 years the front i need the longs or dirty 30's.

someone said something about power steering, dont bother with the trak/kick swap. go toy, the celica is no go there is only one company the has a pitman arm for them. the 2 wheel drive truck is a good option and cheep, but the IFS is the way to go, theres lots out there, and theres parts for them. easy to put in as well. if you use toy axles you will have most what you need for steering parts already out there. the drag link is like 1/2 inch shorter thats the only thing thats different with that set up.


good luck

2.sami's dont have enough power to turn big tires unless a doubler or low gears are installed,3. steering is impossible with big tires unless a hydro or tracker ps are installed.

1st off 4-5k for a D60 WTF....i see these all day long for $600 you got to look in the south west desert dude!



The 4-5k for a D60 was a price range for one that is built to the balls (i.e. Chromo shafts, CTM joints, highsteer arms, reid knuckles and c's, geared with ARB locker.

As far as the rest of the drivetrain, I am aiming to collect parts to do a 6.5 tcase, 5.29 axle ratio and full hydro steering. I am aiming to do something that is right the first time rather than build in stages, unless I find a deal that is partially built:)

ok i'll give ya fully built in the 4k range is good. 5k is to much! but not every one has a good connection at the parts place to get things at cost. but still 5k is very high.

call shawn at low range off road. there great people and have really great prices. they have all the gears for the sami case, and the toy stuff all in one place. i just sold my 6.5 case with the custom mount for $400 sorry man.

for you T-case mount build it! use the spine that rock4x has scott has that thing figured out. it will keep that T-case from trying to lift out. that is the biggest issue with the T-case other than there small. if you can keep it still it will live for some time.

if your interested i know where there is a set of FJ80 axles just sittin under the truck! bet you could get both the axles with coils and arms for a song. PM if you want the info. there wider and stronger. full float rear. the birff up front is 3x larger.oh and hy-pinion front stock!

big fullsize trucks swap in rockwell's, jeeps and v8 tube buggies swap in d60's and 14 bolts from 1tons, sammy's and XJ's and such swap in d44's, 9", and rear d60. Why, because it's a lot cheaper than upgrading the stock axles with aftermarket parts and if or when you break something you can get parts at the local parts house or salvage yard or even someone else you are wheeling with may have spares. I've seen D44 stock front axle shafts live under racing conditions in heavy TJ's with 297 spicer axle joints with the caps tack welded to the shaft ears (this helps keep the ears from stretching). If you put lockers in the stock axles you WILL break shafts or birfields even with 29" tires PERIOD. Why spend as much on chromoly axle shafts for the stock axle as what you can buy and rebuild Waggy or Scout
D44's??

I guess it depends on how and where you wheel but I would say no. If you really NEED 36's then you will want the Sammy longer and wider even if you could get the aftermarket shafts and R&P to last.

PS. I get out of the parking lot. Maybe that why I break shit????


This is definitely sig worthy...you mall crawlers pay attention. :D

This is definitely sig worthy...you mall crawlers pay attention. :D
I break more shit in the parking lot!
:homer:

I almost put mine on it side in a parking lot. It went all the way over on to the sidewalls and I snapped the steering wheel back the other way and it popped back up on all fours, bounced a foot straight up and then I scraped my pants out and laughed. I wish someone had video! Don't try to do dounuts on pavement with a spring over on stock width axles. :D:shaking:

Yea and 31' burnouts on new 31" Trxus MT's don't help out anything either. Wrapped up some springs, loosened some U-Joints, probably twisted my stock axle too. It snapped a year later.

I do donuts daily here at the shop but only when it is covered with snow or in the dirt lot. Actually burned through to pavement last night and caught a wheel. Parked it. LOL. Didn't have to clean my shorts but it did startle me.

http://www.geckocycles.com/images/Sammy/2%20burns0.JPG

go with yotas man easy to swap still have a 3rd member easier to regear and work on. and if your not to crazy will hold stock form but if you have a heavy right foot you can get longfields pretty much like tinbeater told ya.

go pick up a sami axle then pick up a yota axle notice anything? there's a reason yota's are stronger it's called steel. :grinpimp:

go pick up a sami axle then pick up a yota axle notice anything? there's a reason yota's are stronger it's called steel. :grinpimp:
LOL

I got a set of FJ40's complete and was going to use them untill I tried to pick them up and couldn't! :eek:

I like the narrow track of the Sammy and Cromo rears and Spidertrax front. Trussed housings, Spidertrax antiwrap and panhard and Sky OTT

Still not sure I could run 35's with them though and have that margine of error I like to keep.

36"s on stock Sammy axles is just fine...

for mall crawling.

First, I'm one of the "purist" that toykilla5150 mentions. And while "stockish" axles on 33-35" tires is possible, and crawl with it, ir requires 2 things:

1) A shit load of moola. moly shafts and birfs, trussing, complete new housings (like my Sidewinder) ain't cheap. But it does keep it Zook specific.

and...

2) Restraint. I mean personal restraint. Choosing, good lines, using finese and experience, and resisting the urge to use more throttle to solve a problem are essential to survive.

Honestly, I have a good deal of respect for hard-core crawlers who remain as pure suzuki, and still wheel difficult terrain and survive. It has a lot to say about their driving skills, as wheeling a Samurai with pure "components" is like golfing with a low or no handicap. Yes, one *could*run Toys, but way stop at crappy little Toys? Why not go D60 or a 9"? Hell, why run D60s when a D70 would do better? How about a Corp 14? Did someone mention Rockwells? Mog Portals? lets just go strait to Abrahm's tracks. There is always a "better" axle, and Toys are far, far from the ultimate solution (for that, visit spidertrax (www.spidertrax.com) :smokin:)

All in all, puff-puff-pass some of that hyrdo you've been smoking if you even had a passing thought that 36"s would work on Sammy axles.

36"s on stock Sammy axles is just fine...

for mall crawling.

First, I'm one of the "purist" that toykilla5150 mentions. And while "stockish" axles on 33-35" tires is possible, and crawl with it, ir requires 2 things:

1) A shit load of moola. moly shafts and birfs, trussing, complete new housings (like my Sidewinder) ain't cheap. But it does keep it Zook specific.

and...

2) Restraint. I mean personal restraint. Choosing, good lines, using finese and experience, and resisting the urge to use more throttle to solve a problem are essential to survive.

Honestly, I have a good deal of respect for hard-core crawlers who remain as pure suzuki, and still wheel difficult terrain and survive. It has a lot to say about their driving skills, as wheeling a Samurai with pure "components" is like golfing with a low or no handicap. Yes, one *could*run Toys, but way stop at crappy little Toys? Why not go D60 or a 9"? Hell, why run D60s when a D70 would do better? How about a Corp 14? Did someone mention Rockwells? Mog Portals? lets just go strait to Abrahm's tracks. There is always a "better" axle, and Toys are far, far from the ultimate solution (for that, visit spidertrax (www.spidertrax.com) :smokin:)

All in all, puff-puff-pass some of that hyrdo you've been smoking if you even had a passing thought that 36"s would work on Sammy axles. Point #2 is well said.

I wish Spidey still made more Zuk stuff and those Sidewinders. I had a line on the spare front housing with coils that was for the Arachnid for $75 and I passed it up. I kick myself in the ass for that. I live too close to Tom's shop. I just can't talk him in to going backwards in his business plan. They are doing well with the Spider 9's. Those guys have big full pockets. Why deal with the (for the most part) cheap Sammy guys.

I have made a Dana 30 live between the 36" tires, I just dont enjoy it. I hate driving completely expecting to destroy something. It's like playing russian roulette with a fully loaded cylinder.

I will be shot for this, but I am no purist. I will however use a combination of parts that is common (easily replaceable), affordable and stout enough for the desired resistance (weight).

I am STRONGLY leaning to the Toyota axles versus the Dana 44's due to the removeable stump.

I am looking at 1 partially built rig and several stockers. Time will tell what I end up with. I had asked about the 36" tires because I already own a set of 5.

A secondary goal for a build is lower overall height. My jeep feels a bit tippy. The PO had installed a 2"BL. I am removing that, but the height will still be ~83" I want a Sami build to remain @72"

What do you guys think about FJ40 axles?
I got a pair complete sitting in my shop that I got for free. They have I believe a 9.5" ring gear and 4.10's stock. Has some kind of king pin high steer on it. That may be stock I don't know. I was going to put them under a new build but these things weigh so much that I think I would need more motor. The low CG would be useful as would be the heavy unsprung weight. Just can't see adding that much weight to Sammy 1.3.

They are offset in the right direction.
I was planning on using 35's with them.

I had a line on the spare front housing with coils that was for the Arachnid for $75 and I passed it up. I kick myself in the ass for that.

Umm, $75?!?! Bend over, as I need to kick you in the ass as well. :laughing:


I live too close to Tom's shop. I just can't talk him in to going backwards in his business plan. They are doing well with the Spider 9's. Those guys have big full pockets. Why deal with the (for the most part) cheap Sammy guys.

I know Tom and Ed from when they were in Jersey. Great guys. Both had a real passion for Zook stuff. Last I talked to Tom, he still did. Yeah, they are in the money now, but if they could expand the Suzuki line, boy it would make many really happy.

Tell Tom and Ed I said hi.

Umm, $75?!?! Bend over, as I need to kick you in the ass as well. :laughing:




I know Tom and Ed from when they were in Jersey. Great guys. Both had a real passion for Zook stuff. Last I talked to Tom, he still did. Yeah, they are in the money now, but if they could expand the Suzuki line, boy it would make many really happy.

Tell Tom and Ed I said hi.
I know I know! Money was and is tight. I watched the price go from $150 down to $75 then it was gone. I was just thinking about how much it would cost me to use these. I asked Tom about it when it was for sale and sent him the link. He told me the story about it.

Tom still has a passion for sure. I talk and email him often. He is so busy he hasn't had time to even look at his own Zuk build. I try to get him out but with the business and family he is overwhelmed. He is only in the shop in the mornings these days. I talked to Eddie a few times but don't see him much. When they are out working on the Rock Bug is when I see him.

I'll tell Tom you said Hi.

i'm running stock yota axles on 38x12.50x15 tsl's and haven't broke yet. can even brake torque it on dry pavement. i'd go with yota axles.

What do you guys think about FJ40 axles?
I got a pair complete sitting in my shop that I got for free. They have I believe a 9.5" ring gear and 4.10's stock. Has some kind of king pin high steer on it. That may be stock I don't know. I was going to put them under a new build but these things weigh so much that I think I would need more motor. The low CG would be useful as would be the heavy unsprung weight. Just can't see adding that much weight to Sammy 1.3.

They are offset in the right direction.
I was planning on using 35's with them.


I ended up buying a partially built rig that has FJ40 axles with toy mini truck outers. I know the guys that this has wheeled with, so it seems that they work well.

I ended up buying a partially built rig that has FJ40 axles with toy mini truck outers. I know the guys that this has wheeled with, so it seems that they work well.

Did you buy it in KY???

the FJ40's are a good axle, heavy and there hard to get parts for, the front shafts don't have as many folks that make new ones. the rear is good as well full float i think as well.the minis have so many things out for them and so much after market and garage tech its hard to pass them up. hell the toy guys are putting the ifs hubs on the solid axles and getting an added 3"s per side.

Did you buy it in KY???

Yes, I did. Is there anything that I should know about now that the title is signed:eek:

I had to replace the battery (surprise, a 5yr old battery died in this weather) and re-weld the hood hinge mounts. This week I need to re aim the pinion as it has some wicked vibes on takeoff and the static angle is about 5* above the DS:barf: I also need to put in a twin stick kit as I now see what an abortion that the modified shift pattern is.

I'm thinking about finding someone else that could use them then.
With the HUGE weight increase and 2.6" Dia increase over the stock Sammy ring gear, I would need to put 35's and change the gear to a tad lower. THe 4.1 gear will not net me enough of a change with the added weight and tire size.

Anybody want them? Local pickup in Louisville CO.
Free! Bring Fat Tires:p

Ken, I have a six pack of fat tire sitting in my fridge....... I might work a deal with you.

Sorry for the hijack.... carry on

Make it a 12 pk and they are yours Dave.
I'll share them with you. :smokin:
Here is my pile.
http://geckocycles.com/images/Sammy/axles.jpg

12 pack it is! :D

Cool cause I am DAMN THIRSTY!
These things weight a ton. Can hardly lift one end up, well I can but just saying. Look at the size of that center section.
Hope you got a motor and or lots of gear anyway.