: Mini Rockwells?
FCwheeler 10-01-2002, 01:02 PM With all the shit that is being done with custom axles, here's a thought. Build a top-drive unit based on the ford 9", toyota, or eaton housing. Run the ring and pinion above, with a straight-cut (helical cut would make r&p preload impossible to set) gear drive with a 2:1 reduction down to the carrier. Use Mog portals to make everything turn the right way. There are three advangages to this over any existing axle: 1) killer clearance 2) you could use a higher (numerically lower) gearset to have a stronger pinion, and still have decent gearing 3) less of the weight and size issues of rockwells.
A production r@p could be used, and ther carrier could be setup to take the standard mog9 shafts and shit. just a though, probably will never get built, but it sure would kick ass!
elf_cruiser 10-01-2002, 01:07 PM way too tall, and too much gearing for road use. You forgot about the 2:1 gears in the mog portal boxes...
kwrangln 10-01-2002, 01:13 PM I dont think the housing would survive being run flat like what your thinking. They are engineered to be run near verticle. Think of it like trying to break a 2x4 across the 4" side vs breaking it on the 2" side. That would be alot of gearing too, I think 2.73's are the highest gear you can get for a 9", so 2 x 2.73 x 2 = 10.92:1. And here I thought 5.38's were pretty low for diff gearing.
FCwheeler 10-01-2002, 01:17 PM Yea, both of you have good points. Definitely not practical. I agree completely. The basic idea of a rockwell-like axle, but smaller still seems like something that might be worth looking into, though.
spencurai 10-01-2002, 02:32 PM not a backyard project that is for sure!! you need some serious engineering and machining to pull that off!! besides the pinion bearings would starve from lack of lubrication unless you used sealed bearings.
4Bangler 10-01-2002, 02:56 PM I think you guys are thinking about it from the wrong angle, what if you built a custom 3rd member that allowed the use of standard 9" gears and carriers, but with the pinion up top, still hoizontal, but up top, like the upside down 9" mog setup, only with the 3rd member bolting on in a horizontal plane. Agreed, an off the shelf 9" housing wouldn't work, but somthing like the Avalanche housing might, or maybe a 9" with a back brace, if that didn't eat up the clearance. And 2.73 x 2 for the Mog outers would be quite reasonable, and you'd have a gazillion ratio choices lower than that.
Rudezuk 10-01-2002, 04:52 PM Originally posted by Daniel
As Far as Mini Rockwells these are about as Mini as they get:)
7 1/2 inches Narrower
http://www.usa6x6.com/ROckwell%20rebuilt%20axle%20w%20discs%20black.jpg
Steve did this set... CLEAN huh...
Clean but whats the cost on one of these???
Weight? Gearing?
flmanyj 10-01-2002, 05:40 PM on our old swamp buggy we did this pointed the pinon strait up
and cut one tube off a 12bolt welded the spider gears up
and the other end of the axle welded a yoke on it and atached it to the other axle with a ujoint
it had 5ft tractor tires and the drive shaft was 9ft off the ground
it was only 2 wheel drive and never got stuck in the everglades
Rerard 10-01-2002, 06:04 PM Wow you got any pics of that thing?
rockdawgfj40 10-01-2002, 06:22 PM how much? i want some of those
Flipper 10-01-2002, 06:55 PM Originally posted by flmanyj
on our old swamp buggy we did this pointed the pinon strait up
and cut one tube off a 12bolt welded the spider gears up
and the other end of the axle welded a yoke on it and atached it to the other axle with a ujoint
it had 5ft tractor tires and the drive shaft was 9ft off the ground
it was only 2 wheel drive and never got stuck in the everglades
A stock rockwell would look short next to that!!!!
I think you set a record for high pinion though....6 1/2 feet above axle centerline if I did the math right.
Flipper 10-01-2002, 06:59 PM Any close-up pictures of the disc brakes on the rockwells pictured? What are the bits and pieces from? Is this bolt on....or some very trick machined pieces?
BJ On Roids 10-01-2002, 07:08 PM Originally posted by flmanyj
on our old swamp buggy we did this pointed the pinon strait up
and cut one tube off a 12bolt welded the spider gears up
and the other end of the axle welded a yoke on it and atached it to the other axle with a ujoint
it had 5ft tractor tires and the drive shaft was 9ft off the ground
it was only 2 wheel drive and never got stuck in the everglades
PIIICS :flipoff2:
so its $2720 with out those gay selectros? humm
flmanyj 10-02-2002, 03:55 AM all those are is isuzu cabover truck rotors
were they mount to the hub you turn down rotor
so the rotor matches the hubs OD
then redrill your 6 lugs
some brands you half to turn down the rotor were
the brake pad goes an 1/8 in or so to fit a calaper
i have done about 5 of there you can do both axles in about a half a day
i will try to find sone pic
rockota 10-02-2002, 06:02 AM Originally posted by flmanyj
on our old swamp buggy we did this pointed the pinon strait up
and cut one tube off a 12bolt welded the spider gears up
and the other end of the axle welded a yoke on it and atached it to the other axle with a ujoint
it had 5ft tractor tires and the drive shaft was 9ft off the ground
it was only 2 wheel drive and never got stuck in the everglades
Basically the same design the original BearFoot Monster trucks ran for quite some time...
Originally posted by FCwheeler
Build a top-drive unit based on the ford 9", toyota, or eaton housing. Run the ring and pinion above, with a straight-cut (helical cut would make r&p preload impossible to set) gear drive with a 2:1 reduction down to the carrier. Use Mog portals to make everything turn the right way.
Been there, done that, only the 9" R&P were in standard layout. 3.50 gearing with the portals. This was actually on a mud racing chassis a buddy of mine bought a few years back. It had been built in the late 70's. He pretty much gave the whole thing away because this rock-crawling thing hadn't really become popular yet, so nobody wanted the axles.
TEX
bigdude 10-02-2002, 06:27 AM Originally posted by Daniel
HAlf a day:rolleyes: It took us 16 hours of machine work in that system how long of a day you got anyway?
You were down here in FL doing machine work :flipoff2: Or do you mean it took Steve 16 hours of machine work :D
Hey Steve G.- I'll come by and pick up those D60 locking hubs eventually, I've just been busy lately. Sorry if they are cluttering your shelfs :)
steve gerstner 10-02-2002, 05:17 PM Originally posted by bigdude
Hey Steve G.- I'll come by and pick up those D60 locking hubs eventually, I've just been busy lately. Sorry if they are cluttering your shelfs :) No problem bigdude,when ever you get free. steve
flmanyj 10-03-2002, 03:50 AM well if you are doing 16hr of michine work your doing it the hard way
i was talking to this guy at the fair that said he had 20hr of machine in his he said he wanted to build another one
so i showed him how i did mine
and then the guy said he owned chucks trucks
and thanks for the know how now i am going to start
building them like that
dam guy
yager 10-03-2002, 08:07 AM Back to the original thought.....Yes it is cool !!
post pics of the swamp buggy !!!!
anyway !
1) Wouldn't a simple High Pinion setup work? (curries setup for the 9" comes to mind) Toyota has a HP chuck (yes there are strength issues with a R/C gear in the back)
2) reguardless of the axle(s) used, you can only shave the housing to the ring gear (or shave gear some too) This is the same reguardless of where the pinion comes in.
3) You would need major lift to clear a top loader style axle leading me to #4
4) If your NEEDing any other this stuff portals/top loader etc... for some reason, id guess you have a big(er) rig and huge tires and would need a larger 2.5ton/mog alxe for strength reasons, bigger bearings, brakes etc...
but if $$ is no issue build away..... (and post pics)
Just some random thoughts.....
-yag
bigdude 10-03-2002, 08:12 AM I want to see some pics of that swamp buggy also :eek:
Robert 10-03-2002, 10:42 AM You guys are all talking about using off the shelf r&p's for ease of engineering and parts availability.
But what about a flat ring gear and a worm drive pinion.
The ring gear is what hangs down and sucks up ground clearence.
So if the ring gear was flat, kind of like a band wrapped around the carrier, ground clearence would be improved signifacantly.
you could even modify existing carriers to use this type of ring gear. A double reduction carrier would also be an obvious next step, similar to the Mack Truck axles.
yager 10-03-2002, 11:11 AM Originally posted by Daniel
Mack 5 ton axles look exactly like a rockwell except they use 5/73 gears
The problem with a worm drive is that it has no coast feature
JUst wait... Steve is on a mission:D
Daniel, maybe im confused, can you explain the no coast feature? I can't understand how that would be a good thing on an axle ? -yag
In a worm gear setup, when the worm gear is unpowered it effectively works as a brake on the worm wheel.
The worm gear can turn the worm wheel, but the worm wheel cannot turn the worm gear...
http://www.jeepthing.com/images/wormgear.jpg
elf_cruiser 10-03-2002, 12:22 PM I had the thought of using a worm gear a while ago, but the "no coast" is something that i never even thought about. What I did find, however, is that the smallest ratio I could find was like 20:1, so i figured, if you you were gonna do it, you would have to make portal hubs, but with reverse gearing. Say, 1:2 in the portals - to make the final drive 10:1. Just some thoughts.
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