So the thread about applying for a FFL has got me thinking. If I get my 07ffl and decide that I want to make my own ar 15 receiver from a chunk of metal...

1) Can I just make the receiver based off existing design?

2) Do I have to change something about the design to make it my own?

So the thread about applying for a FFL has got me thinking. If I get my 07ffl and decide that I want to make my own ar 15 receiver from a chunk of metal...

1) Can I just make the receiver based off existing design?

2) Do I have to change something about the design to make it my own?

Similar to copyright where its ok to copy for personal use. *Generally* speaking as long as one doesn't make for sale a patented design its mostly OK with the courts.

That does not prevent the patent owner from suing or sending registered letters threatening to sue if they find out you used their design...

D.

Similar to copyright where its ok to copy for personal use. *Generally* speaking as long as one doesn't make for sale a patented design its mostly OK with the courts.

That does not prevent the patent owner from suing or sending registered letters threatening to sue if they find out you used their design...

D.

So how would I go about making the receiver to sell? Do I have to pay a licenseing fee to the owner of the patent? Or as I had asked, change something about the design to make it my own design?

Does having an FFL allow one to manufacture?

If you were in TN, you could just make one :p

Does having an FFL allow one to manufacture?

It depends on what FFL you have. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Firearms_License#Federal_Firearms_License_ types

If you were in TN, you could just make one :p

Well Im sure I could just make one in NY, but its something I want to do as a business.

You missed the point.

DRM is talking about the new intra-state trade regulations for firearms in TN and MT.

Basically, if you make it there, you can sell it there, no fed. licensing necessary.

NFA-type stuff is excluded though.

So how would I go about making the receiver to sell? Do I have to pay a licenseing fee to the owner of the patent? Or as I had asked, change something about the design to make it my own design?

All you can do is ask the owner and see what they say. Paying the owner a royalty can be a 1 time deal or it can be a per part deal AND there is the scenario where the owner will NOT allow licensure of any sort. Thats between the owner and the prospective licensee.

Redoing the design can work iffen theres a significant enough design change that makes it work, look and feel differently enough to say it's a different widget. Even then there is no real guarantee that you don't get pulled into court if the patent owner "thinks" it s the same design. Outfits owning the patent will go into patent infringements initially with a cease and desist court order followed by a zillion $ suit that can drag on for years over loss of trade on a patent they own in my experience.

It really boils down to depending on the patent owner vs. how much risk of a legal hassle you want in your life as to which route to go.

D.

I'm pretty confident that any patents that might have once applied to a standard AR15 lower have long since expired; the AR15 designation is trademark protected, so you can't call it that. But unless you make something special, production lower prices are so low that I'm not sure how anybody's making money on them any more. I think the Mega/MGI/somebody? lowers with the interchangeable magwells have some degree of patent protection, but I don't know for sure.

So if you want to, go for it; you don't have to change anything but the name, but unless you give people a reason that yours is better, you'll be competing with the bottom dollar guys (at last check, $55 + shipping).

Alright, thanks for the answers everyone. I dont want to just sell the receivers, but make the entire rifle. I was using the ar15 as an example(everyone and their mother makes ar15 rifles) I was thinking more along the lines of a M1 garand or M14 type rifle. I guess I should have used those as examples instead.

Its really just an idea right now, but I am working on a business plan. Ill need one if I decide to pursue the idea.

I'm pretty sure an M14 pattern rifle is way outside patent protection. Some of HK's current stuff is still protected, and I'd imagine stuff like the Masada, the SCAR, and a couple others may have some patent protection as well. Most of the patent protection is on parts, not whole assemblies, though--for example, Armalite holds a patent on a particular locking lug configuration for the AR15 (maybe also for the AR10) but DPMS' .308 rifle is close enough that most parts interchange with Armalite's.

I'm pretty sure an M14 pattern rifle is way outside patent protection. Some of HK's current stuff is still protected, and I'd imagine stuff like the Masada, the SCAR, and a couple others may have some patent protection as well. Most of the patent protection is on parts, not whole assemblies, though--for example, Armalite holds a patent on a particular locking lug configuration for the AR15 (maybe also for the AR10) but DPMS' .308 rifle is close enough that most parts interchange with Armalite's.

Easy enough to look up, iffen its over 17yrs since "issue date" the patents is expired. Copyright and trade marks are altogether another matter.

Thats part of why folks like Intel have been getting copyright on their chip designs instead of patents. They last almost forever and by the time its expired the chip is no longer made/the tech is obsolete.

D.