This ideas pro's & con's haven't all crossed my mind yet, but I thought I'd pass it by you guys while the idea is still fresh and seems like a sweet idea. <IMG SRC="smilies/wink.gif" border="0">

I love the ride my coil sprung suspension on my blazer gave me nice and comfy, obsorbed all of the bumps I hated feeling with my factory leaf spring set-up.

So I was reading through one of my newer wheeling mags and say a great idea.

Using one or two (thin) leafs SOA to locate the axle (side-to-side and front-to-back) and use coils to support the wieght.

At first I was thinking well then you're still limited to the droop and compression of the leafs, but not so, a sigle or double thin leaf set-up would flex super good compared to a stock med-thickness 4-5 leaf set-up. Especially if you used long Ford F150 springs. I also thought that if you throw in a revolver shackle (if necessary) You'd have a pretty sweet set-up, the biggest advantage being the softer ride of coil springs.

Now I'm thinking what about axle wrap...well just make and axle wrap-bar. I already have TWO pretty long (15" inches of solid steel professionally added to them and re-threaded) ford radius arms I could apply as a traction bar.

So what do you guys think.

Sounds like a good experiment. You'll need two bars for traction, plus most likely a track bar to locate the axle. At that point you might as well add the fourth bar and go with 4 link rear, with double shackles. The other problem will be locating the coils in the rear. Scouts are heavy the more you angle the coils inward the higher the spring rate needs to be. You could bring the coils up through the bed and attach to a bar tied to the cage.

Joe <IMG SRC="smilies/smokin.gif" border="0">

Rockslut was saying that he saw that somewhere. I don't know if it was on TV, on this board, or in a mag, but it was an Austrailian pic. Seems like it would work great but it also seems redundant.

Originally posted by jdjanda:
<STRONG>Sounds like a good experiment. You'll need two bars for traction, plus most likely a track bar to locate the axle. At that point you might as well add the fourth bar and go with 4 link rear, with double shackles.</STRONG>

No the leaf springs would locate the axle, just like a factory leaf spring set-up. Two bars for traction why???

<STRONG>The other problem will be locating the coils in the rear. Scouts are heavy the more you angle the coils inward the higher the spring rate needs to be.</STRONG>[/QUOTE]

I'm not talking coilovers, I'm talking Coil Springs like on a bronco. Plus I already have a set that I think would work, My Blazer wasn't much heavier than my scout.

<STRONG>You could bring the coils up through the bed and attach to a bar tied to the cage.

Joe <IMG SRC="smilies/smokin.gif" border="0"></STRONG>[/QUOTE]

I think you lost me or I lost you somewhere...... <IMG SRC="smilies/confused.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by Scout Dude:
<STRONG>Rockslut was saying that he saw that somewhere. I don't know if it was on TV, on this board, or in a mag, but it was an Austrailian pic. Seems like it would work great but it also seems redundant.</STRONG>


Like I said the primary objective for me is a nice soft ride

Originally posted by Cliffhanger:
<STRONG>
Like I said the primary objective for me is a nice soft ride</STRONG>


I understand why...but you can get a soft ride from leaf springs. You just have to have a lot of thin leaves.

But I don't want to buy anymore leaves Those nice packs cost a lot, especially from National Spring.

I think that using coils and one or two leafs is a cool idea, If you use longer springs for the rear, you could use your rears on the front.

I would really like to see how it turns out if you go for it.

I can see how the ride would be soft, but I can also see how you would need to carry spare main leafs when wheeling.

Originally posted by Joe V:
<STRONG>I think that using coils and one or two leafs is a cool idea, If you use longer springs for the rear, you could use your rears on the front.

I would really like to see how it turns out if you go for it.

I can see how the ride would be soft, but I can also see how you would need to carry spare main leafs when wheeling.</STRONG>

Why would you have to carry spare mains??? not anymore than when using it like a factory set-up I think...

Originally posted by Cliffhanger:
<STRONG>But I don't want to buy anymore leaves Those nice packs cost a lot, especially from National Spring.</STRONG>

Ahh, but I never said National Spring...my rears are 11 leaf packs from the factory...nice and flexy <IMG SRC="smilies/wink.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by Cliffhanger:
<STRONG>Why would you have to carry spare mains??? not anymore than when using it like a factory set-up I think...</STRONG>

<Joe V was playing pocket pool when he found another $0.01 to throw in with his original $0.02>

I believe if your going to 4wheel with this set up your springs would be more prone to break or bend since they would not have the support of the missing leaves. This occasionally happens even with a complete spring pack.

That's why I like the military wrap design.

Let's face it, springs do break and it's a good idea to carry a spare main leaf if possible. Actually, the only springs I've personally seen break or bend are stock IH Scout and Travelall, Chevy Superlift, stock Wrangler and stock FJ40 springs.

But then again, I guess it depends on what kind of 4wheeling you'll be doing too.

Originally posted by Cliffhanger:
<STRONG>
... Especially if you used long Ford F150 springs. I also thought that if you throw in a revolver shackle (if necessary) You'd have a pretty sweet set-up, the biggest advantage being the softer ride of coil springs.

Now I'm thinking what about axle wrap...well just make and axle wrap-bar. I already have TWO pretty long (15" inches of solid steel professionally added to them and re-threaded) ford radius arms I could apply as a traction bar.
</STRONG>


By the time a person built a traction bar, custom spring hangars, coil buckets, and a panhard bar, they may have well just built a 4-link or a radius arm/panhard bar setup. Hell you are already 1/2 way there with the HD extended radius arms you already have! Why fool around with a mickey mouse leaf spring setup to locate the axle when you can have a strong setup you don't have to worry about?

The way he wants to do it you only need the coil buckets and traction bar. Very simple but the single or double main leaf would be scary if the traction bar ever broke or was inefective. 2 traction bars would probably be a safer idea.

Originally posted by Joe V:
<STRONG><Joe V was playing pocket pool when he found another $0.01 to throw in with his original $0.02>

I believe if your going to 4wheel with this set up your springs would be more prone to break or bend since they would not have the support of the missing leaves. This occasionally happens even with a complete spring pack.

That's why I like the military wrap design.

Let's face it, springs do break and it's a good idea to carry a spare main leaf if possible. Actually, the only springs I've personally seen break or bend are stock IH Scout and Travelall, Chevy Superlift, stock Wrangler and stock FJ40 springs.

But then again, I guess it depends on what kind of 4wheeling you'll be doing too.</STRONG>

You would have as much support or more with this setup.

You have your top leaf, which is basically just locating your axle and then you have your coil spring providing your suspension.

I seen the picture also, it was from the Australian Adventure or something like that.

I believe that if you used an arched leaf SUA you wouldn't need much of a traction bar, and the coils would keep your top leaf from going flat.

Only my opinion but I think something like this would work.

Originally posted by The Rockslut:
<STRONG>The way he wants to do it you only need the coil buckets and traction bar. Very simple but the single or double main leaf would be scary if the traction bar ever broke or was inefective. 2 traction bars would probably be a safer idea.</STRONG>

No, he said he 'if you used long F150 springs', last I checked F150 springs are not a bolt in on Scout II's, so that would mean custom spring hangers/shackle hangers.

Actually it was Especially if you used long Ford F150 springs.

Originally posted by Hayraker*:
<STRONG>
Only my opinion but I think something like this would work.</STRONG>

Sure it might work. But come on!?!?! Why have some half assed, mickey mouse system?? If all you want is a soft ride, you can have it with leaf springs, and no you don't need big $$ custom springs. Get yourself some wagoneer or wrangler springs, they ride great, and they are cheap.

Originally posted by BenW:
<STRONG>Sure it might work. But come on!?!?! Why have some half assed, mickey mouse system?? If all you want is a soft ride, you can have it with leaf springs, and no you don't need big $$ custom springs. Get yourself some wagoneer or wrangler springs, they ride great, and they are cheap.</STRONG>


hmmm?........ What is this Mickey Mouse Suspension System you speak of.........

DISNEY OFF-ROAD?

1. What advantage would the coil & leaf combination have over a properly built convetional leaf spring setup?

2. What advantage would it have over a 4-link/coil setup?

3. What advantage would it have over a radius arm/coil setup?

I don't see it having an advantage over any of these other proven setups.

Originally posted by BenW:
<STRONG>1. What advantage would the coil & leaf combination have over a properly built convetional leaf spring setup?

This one it may have no advantage over, except for me in that I already own the coil springs and have the experience/tools to build everything else myself.

I agree that some wrangler (or other soft) springs would be fine.


2. What advantage would it have over a 4-link/coil setup?

Too many one-off or expensive parts. This way the only one off parts you'd have would be the coil mounts and if built tough enough they'd never be a problem. I've seen many 4-link set-ups on the POR BB that are totally one-off.


3. What advantage would it have over a radius arm/coil setup?

I've done the radius arm set-up (that's why I have the extended ones) and it SUCKS!!! Although there are many upgrades available see: www.rockstomper.com (http://www.rockstomper.com) & www.jamesduff.com (http://www.jamesduff.com) (I think that's right??)

I don't see it having an advantage over any of these other proven setups.</STRONG>

Also If i did use Ford rear springs it would take away from my stand point for question number 1

Plus I just thought the idea looked cool.

Originally posted by Joe V:
<STRONG><Joe V was playing pocket pool when he found another $0.01 to throw in with his original $0.02>

I believe if your going to 4wheel with this set up your springs would be more prone to break or bend since they would not have the support of the missing leaves. This occasionally happens even with a complete spring pack.

That's why I like the military wrap design.

Let's face it, springs do break and it's a good idea to carry a spare main leaf if possible. Actually, the only springs I've personally seen break or bend are stock IH Scout and Travelall, Chevy Superlift, stock Wrangler and stock FJ40 springs.

But then again, I guess it depends on what kind of 4wheeling you'll be doing too.</STRONG>

I see your point.

What is the military wrap design????

Originally posted by BenW:
<STRONG>1. What advantage would the coil & leaf combination have over a properly built convetional leaf spring setup?

2. What advantage would it have over a 4-link/coil setup?

3. What advantage would it have over a radius arm/coil setup?

I don't see it having an advantage over any of these other proven setups.</STRONG>


I agree. I don't see many advantages.

I *have* thought somewhat about a similar setup though.. in my case, I'd leave the full leaf packs in place as-is and add coil-overs and reservoir shocks.

Mostly for the progressive and additional spring rate to soak up landings better.

of course, I'd rather just do a 4-link front/rear and be done with it. Most rule books won't allow "secondary" suspensions.. which is another problem of running leaves + coil-overs.

Originally posted by BenW:
<STRONG>
By the time a person built a traction bar, custom spring hangars, coil buckets, and a panhard bar, they may have well just built a 4-link or a radius arm/panhard bar setup. Hell you are already 1/2 way there with the HD extended radius arms you already have! Why fool around with a mickey mouse leaf spring setup to locate the axle when you can have a strong setup you don't have to worry about?</STRONG>

I already have the coil buckets, If I did this I would just stick with the factory leavs (that was just a what if on the ford springs), No panhard bar necessary.

It just seems like a no brainer as in easier than a 4-link where you have to worry about rear axle steer and pinion angle varying while traveling over rocks.....blah blah blah...It's not that I couldn't do it or don't want to, but I like simple easy to fix set-ups.

Plus if my coil spring ever gave up the ghost I could use a factory leaf spring pack temorarily.

Anyway....I'm done for this one....

Theres nothing like leaf spring there easy to ajust just add or take some out.I scored an 886 on a 30 degre ramp whith Chevy and Ford springs.

I actually have a similar suspension to what we're talking about already in the works. It's not quite the same, but close.

I'm using Alcan springs (they were given to me) on a rear SOA, and I love the flex and ride. However, with a load of gear, and on steep climbs, the rear suspension has a tendency to bottom out. I came across a set of cool little coil spring overloads off the rear of some foreign truck with a utility box on it at the junk yard.

What I'm doing is locating these just outside the frame and they will contact the top of the spring plate. I'm locating them so they just make contact at static ride height, but are not in contact when the suspension droops. Basically, this is my version of a progressive bump stop.

I think it's a great combination; load carrying ability but still good flex off road.

Originally posted by Monster-Z:
<STRONG>I actually have a similar suspension to what we're talking about already in the works. It's not quite the same, but close.

I'm using Alcan springs (they were given to me) on a rear SOA, and I love the flex and ride. However, with a load of gear, and on steep climbs, the rear suspension has a tendency to bottom out. I came across a set of cool little coil spring overloads off the rear of some foreign truck with a utility box on it at the junk yard.

What I'm doing is locating these just outside the frame and they will contact the top of the spring plate. I'm locating them so they just make contact at static ride height, but are not in contact when the suspension droops. Basically, this is my version of a progressive bump stop.

I think it's a great combination; load carrying ability but still good flex off road.</STRONG>

That's actually a really good idea and they sell those little coil springs at places like NAPA for just THAT purpose. Well the load carrying capacity purpose, not the progressive bump stop purpose.... <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> Good tip.

Originally posted by Joe V
I believe if your going to 4wheel with this set up your springs would be more prone to break or bend since they would not have the support of the missing leaves. This occasionally happens even with a complete spring pack.

That's why I like the military wrap design.

Let's face it, springs do break and it's a good idea to carry a spare main leaf if possible.


Hey you never answered me, what is the Military Wrap Design??
:beer:

F150 Leafs in the front will hurt a bit by limiting your turning radius. They are 3" wide and your stock Scout springs are 2" wide. With the SOA you going to be sticking out about an inch beyond the frame on each side.

I settled for 1968 Ford 1/2 ton 2WD rear pick up springs. They are 54" long and the pin is close to center. Custom brackets will hold these.

I will be putting 1986 Ford Bronco rear leafs in the back under the frame. SOA too.

This is my set up - just spot welded before final design. testing next week. :D
http://home.off-road.com/~nwmud/images/frntend.jpg

Ritch

Originally posted by Cliffhanger



Hey you never answered me, what is the Military Wrap Design??
:beer:

Military Wrap Design means that the leaf just under the main leaf continues for the entire length of the main leaf, and also wraps around the spring eye with the main leaf, so that there are two complete leaves the full length of the spring and also two leaves wrapping the spring eyes. The advantages are obvious here: less stress on the main leaf, and if you break one you have the next lower leaf to tie things together still. I haven't seen many factory springs this way though, but National will build 'em that way I understand, but I don't know for sure (I always put together my own spring packs with whatever I have around until the rate is right).

:beer:

I get the idea but, got any pics?. Anyone???

NWMUD~ Cool progress pic, I can't wait to cut-n-turn my knuckles. aren't you gonna shoot the pinion up a bit more, or is that Opposite-&-Equal??:beer: :usa:

I had a friend that took a few leafs out of a triangle 4" kit

then mounted air bags above them on each corner.

he could ride around on 33" tires with a little chopping

then bam on the air and get like 5" of total lift for the trails.

kinda like a range rover.

the anemic 304 was hardly enough power to wrap the springs

so the set up worked pretty well and the firstone airbags came outa a truck bone yard for damn near nothing.

It may not be the hottest setup but he was way happier with it then the 4" kit it replaced.