Yeah, search well FU. I've seen everything from the latest exploits of the heavy hitters (and you know who you are) to the "good ol boys" and their brawn over bust arguments. Frankly, It's getting old already. I'm at the point where pulling a trailer, wife and two kids is going to be a reality very soon. I like most of you have become a 44 stub replacment expert. It's getting old. At the same time, looking at getting a 60 (which is not a huge deal) and fabbing it is as much of a PITA as dropping the 8 hundo and going Warns and CTM's. We all know the advanages of both...

but if YOU were building to pull a trailer, a foresome family, smack'n the box from time to time but mostly needing a reliable, non shaft replacing, hanging out, 87 YJ on 38's plus 5.7TBI bitch.....what would you do? No intent on competing in the rig. Just a trailer haul'n tug boat. Give it to me. :smokin:

60 :D

No question in my mind...I would toss in a 60 and feel secure I will never loose a ball joint, or overstress a ring&pinion, have the larger wheelbearings and lockouts...no need to fret if and when ya do get with it agressivly. No question I would build the 60......but thats me.

NoRM

Originally posted by DSI
60 :D

So you're on the wish list like me? :flipoff2:

Agreed. Definately the direction I'm leaning.

I myself was tired of popping u - joints and hubs , so I got me a 60. Need to do the buildup and whatnot , but am happy . :D

Originally posted by P|n-BaLL
No question in my mind...I would toss in a 60 and feel secure I will never loose a ball joint, or overstress a ring&pinion, have the larger wheelbearings and lockouts...no need to fret if and when ya do get with it agressivly. No question I would build the 60......but thats me.

NoRM

:) So far so good. I have BOTH lined up. This is my direction for sure. I dont care about fabbing, that's what I do. But the 44's already fabbed in. So I'm weighing everything.

Please keep in mind.... no comp! I'm not going to rip this into comp anytime soon. Focus is on family trailer/no more 44 shaft drills. :rolleyes:

Building a 60 is going to cost more than 8 bills. I just went through this evaluation for myself. Evaluate your driving style. Since you are breaking stub shafts (why aren't the hubs breaking first?), you may feel more comfortable getting the warns for their lifetime replacement warranty.

I just saw someone with a built 60 break an outer stub (30 spline), so don't think they are bullet proof either.

Bob
(I'm not sold on warn shafts yet, but simple cost analysis says they'd be cheaper up front and in the long run)

60 and forget about it. Nothing like pointing nose down, cutting all the way to one side, and flooring it without a care :)

Keep 30 spline outers until you start to break them, do the work yourself, and it won't be that bad. I paid $1K for my HP housing and a spare set of shafts, had it under my YJ fullwidth, 30 spline outers, for about $2500 with gears and a Detroit. Just say ~$1500 to build it and add housing cost onto that (maybe you'll get lucky and find a cheap one). It took a lot of 5.9L juice, popping the automatic into (2) at 4000 rpms, and a heavy stretched TJ to break the only 30 spline stub I've seen let go (this was in a comp). You can also get spare 30 spline outers for cheap/free from people upgrading :D

1-Comp- you said you wont.
2- weight- is your rig a 5500+ lb pig?
3- sanity- is your driving style simply to mash the skinny pedal?
4- ego/common sense- if you're in a bind or your vehicle is "talking back to you" do you push the skinny pedal harder or do you back up/take another line/winch if need be?
5- If you answer agressively to most of these answers you can break 35 spline 60's too- happens often enough.


On the other hand- the investment in 44/ctm's is considerably less both $ and labor. If you find that it's still not enough you can recoup a lot of your investment because the built up 44 is still worth quite a bit to the right person. Make sure you snap ring your u-joints no matter what- spit a cap on any axle and it's ugly.

I just broke my first 30 spline D60 stub shaft. I have 38.5x14.5" SX's and a 4.0L (but 90 to 1 gear reduction) and I broke it.
I thought the hubs would break first, but apparently not always.

So, I just bought the 35 spline outers, and hubs. Cost is $329 for the whole kit to convert to 35 spline outers.
That should garantee the hub will be the first to go, and the warn premiums are lifetime waranteed and a 5 minute change.

SO, I vote for the D60 - and the 35 spline outers :D

Phil

Originally posted by 1TONTJ
I thought the hubs would break first, but apparently not always.


I've always seen the 30 spline stubs break first (except with real shitty hubs like my set of Mile Markers, those things gave it up easier than a fat sorority chick)

Hmmm. well my first D60 breakage was a Warn Superior Hub that went before the 30 spline outer.

Oh well, the hub should go before the 35 spline stuff right?

Phil

Originally posted by 1TONTJ
Hmmm. well my first D60 breakage was a Warn Superior Hub that went before the 30 spline outer.

Oh well, the hub should go before the 35 spline stuff right?

Phil

Hmmmm. Guess everybody I've seen break a stub has been running Superwinch hubs, gotta love those Superwinch hubs :D

*edit*

I don't know what would break with 35 spline stuff. My guess would be the hub, but everybody I know with 35 spline stubs runs flanges, then the stub always goes first :D

Well the second breakage was a 30 spline stub that went before the warn premium.

I am staying with hubs over flanges for three reasons.
1. The free lifetime waranty
2. They take 5 minutes to change (a lot more time to change a stub shaft)
3. Nice for road driving to have hubs.

Phil

Originally posted by 1TONTJ
Well the second breakage was a 30 spline stub that went before the warn premium.

I am staying with hubs over flanges for three reasons.
1. The free lifetime waranty
2. They take 5 minutes to change (a lot more time to change a stub shaft)
3. Nice for road driving to have hubs.

Phil

I agree with all that.

Originally posted by LOPPY


So you're on the wish list like me? :flipoff2:

Agreed. Definately the direction I'm leaning.


wish list??? nope :D picked up a complete hub to hub HP 60 last night :D

i would go 60 and NEVER tow anything with a jeep on 38's

and so the pitare4x4 mantra of 60 60 60 60 60 60 60 is revived and begun once again. :D

sure is refreshing to here that again.

i was in the same boat...my 44 was spitting shafts faster than a 2 dollar hooker. but it was easy for me to choose....my 44 was cut down so i had to have custom shafts and deal with that whole fawking mess of trying to get shafts made...

i went with a dana 60! right now i am only runnig 36's but hey if i want to go bigger i can and i know when i crank the wheel full lock, shift the t case into front wheel, and hammer it.....it aint gona bust!

I am on that wish list Loppy referred to. He needs a passenger droip though, so its a little easier for him. I am lookin for a rev cut ford housing right now....My D44 is about to go for sale :beer:

Originally posted by Chrisjeep7
i know when i crank the wheel full lock, shift the t case into front wheel, and hammer it.....it aint gona bust!

Got 35 spline outers? I used to think the same thing until I broke a 30 spline outer and I was not "hammering" on it.

Phil
Anything can be broken, but the D60 is still better than a D44 no matter how much you "polish the turd" :D

rememebr to not run the stinky pinkies in your 60 or, :nuke: jiMMy

What's the details on the "stinky pinky"?

Phil

Originally posted by The Jerk
rememebr to not run the stinky pinkies in your 60 or, :nuke: jiMMy

i dont see the problem:rolleyes:

Originally posted by The Jerk
rememebr to not run the stinky pinkies in your 60 or, :nuke: jiMMy

Unless you have a 3600# 4 cylinder powered rig, then they are fine :D

Originally posted by bigdude


Unless you have a 3600# 4 cylinder powered rig, then they are fine :D the rig might be but teh driver is still :rainbow: for owning a no HP rig to have fun with.

as for the stinkies they are 35 spline but neck down right after teh splines all the way to the ears!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by G02Guy
2- weight- is your rig a 5500+ lb pig?

Hey , I resemble that remark!

Let's not forget one of the big advantages for a 60 vs. 44 when towing.

BIG BRAKES.

Between the weight rating and the monster brakes are why the ONE front 60 I've acquired is going under my tow-rig and not my trail rig.

I like my 1T brakes, just don't like being 2wd with unobtanium rotors (the fun of an old 'Binder)

My crewcab with 235/86-16s, loaded trailer at 12,500lbs will stop just fine w/o the trailer brakes.

I LIKE knowing that.

Granted, the 38s would take away some of that effective braking, but the 60 is still ahead of the game on the brakes.

personaly.. i dont like to spend my money twice.. my vote is 60 even tho it'll initialy cost more..

i dont care about driving style.. every one knows shit hapens, every one gets int a spot and go's " i shuldnt be here" and i personaly like to not have to worry about my shit breaking.. i can deal with an ocational failure, but to me 35 spline outers would be the way to go.. that way the hub lets loose, i fix it in 5 min with basic hand tools, and im up and going again.. if ya put on drive flanges, then you move the weak link.. ok, so mayby a stub, mayby a ujoint, mayby a inner.. not a good move in my opinion..

of course who am i to talk.. and i dont compete.. so....
all i got to say.. my old lady dont like to sit around on the trail while i fix stuff......

I'd probably go 60.

Actually, if I was busting too much stuff, I'd slap Rockwells under it and leave the 6x6 on blocks.

That brought up a good point Lop. brakes, pulling a trailer with 38's up to con? your going to want a 60 and the big ass brakes to keep your family safe

60 get it over with

Floppy 44's are :rainbow:

yeah you could put in warn's, CTM's and drive flanges, but what's next... CTM ball joints? :flipoff2: With all that crap you could still rip bj's apart.

You got a family and want it 'reliable' right?

6060606060606060606060606060606060606060606060

Oh well, the hub should go before the 35 spline stuff right?

I recently saw a 35 spline stub go before the warn premium hub.:nuke:

Dana 60 WITH CTM's :flipoff2:

dana 60's with ctms havent we been down this road like last week...some day we will be able to get some real axles shafts to go with the ctms...but what will be break then....

Originally posted by Keith Strong
I am on that wish list Loppy referred to. He needs a passenger droip though, so its a little easier for him. I am lookin for a rev cut ford housing right now....My D44 is about to go for sale :beer:

Hmmm, yes the axle you so desire is in the bed of my truck as we speak.... and it's even got 4:10's in it keith ;)

Fawk Off :flipoff2:

60 :beer:

keith

i happen to know somebody who is selling a dynatrac hp 60 with driver drop, 35 spline outers, ARB, aprox 62" wms to wms ................. intreasted?

I'll give the opinion of someone who has done both. That is, dressed up a pig, and gone 60.

There's nothing quite like having a 60. It just feels good. It just looks and feels like the right tool for the job. I have a Chev 60 in my Wolf (buggy) and a Ford HP60 in my tow rig. I love them. I particularly like being able to use the front axle in the Wolf as a 'dozer blade - bulldozing rocks at will....point and shoot with total peace of mind. And kingpins just rock over balljoints, especially for service.

60 60 60 60 60 ;)

i have seen a few to many blow D44's, go with a 60:D

60's 60's 60's
Oh wait 60's are gay
60/9's 60/9's 60/9's

All the strength without the weight!

Originally posted by Aggro
60's 60's 60's
Oh wait 60's are gay
60/9's 60/9's 60/9's

All the strength without the weight!

or the driveline clearance :flipoff2:

60 60 60 60 60

boy am i glad to see the pirate mantra back :D

Originally posted by tsm1mt
Let's not forget one of the big advantages for a 60 vs. 44 when towing.

BIG BRAKES.

Between the weight rating and the monster brakes are why the ONE front 60 I've acquired is going under my tow-rig and not my trail rig.

I like my 1T brakes, just don't like being 2wd with unobtanium rotors (the fun of an old 'Binder)

My crewcab with 235/86-16s, loaded trailer at 12,500lbs will stop just fine w/o the trailer brakes.

I LIKE knowing that.

Granted, the 38s would take away some of that effective braking, but the 60 is still ahead of the game on the brakes.

That is only if you are comparing 1/2 ton to 1 ton, mainly Ford. Ford 3/4 ton 44 and 50 uses the exact same brakes as the 60.

All in all the 60 will be the best setup. If you are towing you want to get everything a little bigger and heavier.

Originally posted by camo
keith

i happen to know somebody who is selling a dynatrac hp 60 with driver drop, 35 spline outers, ARB, aprox 62" wms to wms ................. intreasted?

VERY!!

how much?

60. If you keep your eye open, you may find a good deal on a 60. I bought Ian's ft and rr 60's, with 42" TSL's, on 36 bolt MRT's 2" offset.....$5,000. Axles are 6.17's, 35 spline, high steer, warn premuim hubs, dutchmans, rr 14 bolt spindles, fw-disk, 62", and ARB's.

sold my 44/60 setup for $3,500, sold the MT Alcoas/champions for $800, and traded the 42's to JiMMy for a new set of 38 sx's. So I got back $4,300 and had a brand new set of tires also. So the trade was just about a wash.

Breaking the stub in the sluice was not so bad, I made it three years without breaking one, but when the fawing steering arm studs sheared off in the knuckle, that really sucked. If you are like me and take the fam alone quit a bit, then you cant go wrong with the extra insurance. I have done things to that 60 that would nuke a 44.

dynatrac 60 hp
63 wide wms to wms
6 lug
driver pig
ARB 5:13
35 spline inner
35 spline outter
warn preminum hubs

front axle has been on 2 easy trail runs and is in perfect condition


spare inner and outter axles. brand new never been used

paid 6k

he would like 4k but is open to offers

he also has a rear dynatrac hp60, disc, 35 spline semi float, spool, 5:13. brand new condition. asking 3k

Originally posted by Keith
60. ...I have done things to that 60 that would nuke a 44.

Yep, me too and change "a" in your statement to "any!!"

Originally posted by emsoffroad


That is only if you are comparing 1/2 ton to 1 ton, mainly Ford. Ford 3/4 ton 44 and 50 uses the exact same brakes as the 60.

All in all the 60 will be the best setup. If you are towing you want to get everything a little bigger and heavier.

Does the Ford 44 user the same big heavy heat-sink rotors, as the Dana 60, too?

Actually, I think it does now that I think of it.. a buddy said his Ford 60 rotors were CHEAP.. so then the question is, is the 3/4T running 1T parts, or is the 1T running 3/4T parts. :D


Chevy isn't even close. I have an 8-lug 10-bolt sitting next to my 60 right now. :D The 10-bolt has the same calipers and pads as the 1/2T, but the 60 is much larger.

Same as my original IH 4000lbs rated IFS front end in my crewcab. Dana 60 calipers and pads, while every sub-9000lbs truck they built that year shared the same calipers - from the Scout II up to the 3/4T pickups, 2wd and 4wd.

I'll buy that the D50 has "60 brakes".. since it's just a cheapened 60 anyhow. :D

If I could find a passenger drop D50, I'd put one in my tow rig and put the 60 in my trail rig. I just want the big brakes and weight carrying capacity.. a '44 just doesn't offer that.

Originally posted by Keith
but when the fawing steering arm studs sheared off in the knuckle, that really sucked

I feel your pain - that happened to me too. Had to drill and easy out them with an air drill in the middle of a tough trail. Took over an hour to get it all done.

Phil
Now I carry a brand new cobalt bit in case it ever happens again...
:D

Well I'm about to give the CTM's a try in my K5. Running the same trail at Dixie run that the two lead truck blew out last year. Winched the rest.
I'm conservative driver and staying in the 35-36 range of tires. Several reasons I stay that tires size and one of them is I pull a small camper. Other is cost. Unless you just luck up on a 60 for cheap your looking at least $2.5k when you factor in both a front a rear axle, rebuilding them, 35 spling outers and possibly inners, a locker for the front, maybe a locker for the rear unless you luck out and get one with a Detroit, rims, grinding brakes or new tires to fit 16 inch rims. To get the same clearence as I have now I would have to run 38's. THen we are into more lift more cutting and worse street manners and I do drive my truck regularly.
I just don't have that kind of cash so we will give the Warns and CTM's a shot. If they will handle 35's and front locker then I'm good to go. After this then I may build a full on Gonzo truck that is trail only and then street doesn't matter.

60 mantra is back and strong. :D

The real reason I posted this was I'm at the point where I really need to upgrade the 44. I was just about to pull the knuckles for a high steer job and then it hit my like a hot wind... that "Polish a turd" eerie gut feeling. :eek: Been down that road before with a 30/35 (we're not going there, and YES you've done it too! :flipoff2: )

OK. So it's a done deal. I'm just gunna run my junk as is till I find the 60 of my dreams... Which right now is a rusted out old pass drop out of a boneyard for $150. :D

loppy.

don't feel bad cause in one way or another we are all still polishing a turd. :D

live your dream buddy. it is out there. go find it.

now that the 60's mantra is comming back it may be a good time to add a foot note. so here goes.


i think that the ctm 44 ujoint made from 300m is the best product to hit the wheeling world in the last few years. it is a great product that for many is exactly what they need to wheel with confidance that their axle will not explode. i believe that for the majority of people they will provide years of reliable service and most people will NEVER experience a failure. so unles your wheeling style is already to the point where you are failing a 44 joint every time you start your rig then the ctm joint is probally a great choice for you. now for the rest of us............................60 60 60 60 60

60 to the dome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am so gald to hear that my 1.5 year old D60 and 14 bolt haven't gone out of style yet ;-)

One thing though - the Mantra should be:
"Shaved 60 - Shaved 60 - Shaved 60" :D


Phil