the problem is my current setup in the front are yj springs with 1" lift shackles. i've boggered up 2 sets of springs by banging the shackle up against rocks and what not. the s/r will fix this. but that requires me to move the front axle forward by moving the front bumper forward. cause the axle will flex back into the wheel well. or i can just put coils in the front. there has been alot of talk lately on the board about coils and its got me spooled up to do coils in the front. i got the all resources to get the job done my self. just looking for some input.

COILS

SR will just traid current problems for new problems..... Axle wrap, wheel hop, drive shaft slip and u-joint problems.... etc.....

okcrawler,

your coil setup looks nice... yours was one of the ones i was checking out that got me all spooled up.

Originally posted by psf4x4
okcrawler,

your coil setup looks nice... yours was one of the ones i was checking out that got me all spooled up.

Thanks,
I rank the front coils as the second best all around performance improvement I've made to the truck. Second only to the rear coils. :)

Originally posted by okcrawler
COILS

SR will just traid current problems for new problems..... Axle wrap, wheel hop, drive shaft slip and u-joint problems.... etc.....

I kinda wonder if you have ever had a properly set up S/R on your rig?

Axle wrap: I did have this problem in back, until I added 2 leaves to a set of too-soft YJ 4-pack springs. Problem solved. Up front, the stock 5-pack YJs have no axle wrap.

Wheel hop: See above

Drive shaft slip yoke and U-joints: Yes, you will need a longer front slip yoke. And I was grenading my rear driveshaft before I upgraded it. But nobody can 'wheel hard with the puny stock driveshafts and expect them to actually hold up. You're gonna need new driveshafts anyways, so this "problem" you mention really isn't an issue.

I like leaf springs for many reasons, the top ones being cost and simplicity. Properly set up like mine is, they perform as well as costly and complex coil setups in real-world 4-wheeling, but without the problems associated with coil conversions.

Every mod has plusses and minuses. I've seen a highly disproportionate rate of problems with coil sprung rigs compared to leaf sprung rigs, but of course I can't let the improperly set up rigs speak for those of you who actually know what you're doing when designing a coil suspension. All I'm saying is that coil springs aren't God's gift to 4-wheelers just because they happen to be the current fad. Leaf springs have worked well for a couple hundred years and as I stated above, the only minor problems I had with my shackle reversal and non-standard springs was merely a case of working out the bugs.

I run a S/R and like it. I do however get a little front axle hop. This is because I am running samurai rears up and yota axles. I cut the yota trac bar off when I installed the axles. I am thinking about hooking it back up
I thought about coils but I think I have my stuff setup right and don't want to ruin a good thing.

Coils are not just 'the current fad' they are the future! As with any new technology coming to a sport, people are still figuring out how to apply it.

My first lift was a 5" Calmini with SR. So, no I never had a properly set up SR. I paid like $800 for that kit. I've got much less in my front and rear coils and I've never looked back. That's just part of the learning process.

SR's do work in some areas. However, we do mostly vertical around hear and they SUCK! Even the good ones. A good coil setup will work anywhere.

I dissagree about the "weak" stock driveshafts. I've been running sami's for about 6 years now, in about every configuration possible. Currently I have coils front and rear and I think they are much better than leaf springs....in my application. In some places leafs are good enough, but I haven't found a place yet where coils weren't better. I have also never upgraded to a beefier driveshaft and I have never had a failure. I run 33x14 boggers right now, and still have not broken a driveshaft. So, needing to upgrade to a different driveshaft is an issue for the S/R in my opinion.

Originally posted by zukiman
But nobody can 'wheel hard with the puny stock driveshafts and expect them to actually hold up.

Hmmm, I guess I don't Get It, 'cause I've always ran stock driveshafts without a problem. :confused: I run 3 leaf CJ packs, yeah, the 2" wide springs :eek: with a center mounted traction bar. Axle wrap kills u-joints. A bigger u-joint doesn't correct the problem, just moves the weak link to the next drivetrain component..... hmmm, do we know anybody that's broken a t-case?:flipoff2:

But nobody can 'wheel hard with the puny stock driveshafts and expect them to actually hold up.

hey geoff if you you did'nt drive your samurai like flawkin l little ricer car you would'nt have those problems. Set up your suspension rite if you actually did stuff like that your self it would'nt be set up rite. thats why dave put it on for cuz you suck at mechanicis everyone does stuff for you
:flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

I wouldn't say S/R suck (the Calmini abortion does, but that's another issue), I believe Tracy Jordan still runs it on his rig. (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=84590) . It obviously works well enough on steep stuff for him to take a win at Calrocks.

either setup can be designed to perform well. either setup can also be designed poorly and it will perform poorly. the cool thing about coils is you can move your front forward wich will greatly increase your aproach angle.

i am in the process of building a fj40/tube buggy thingy right now. i have had the desing in my head for a while but the thing that i could not decide on was the suspension. my jeep runs leaves in a soa setup now and i really liked it except for one thing. on steep, loose hill climbs it would get to hopping and stop forward progress. i was running a rear traction bar too. i finally determined that the hop was coming from the front. i built a traction bar for the front using the same ladder bar with a shackle design that i used in the rear. IT WORKED!! and worked awsome. it worked so well that i have decided to stick with leaves for my current project. i like coils and i really like coilovers but the leaves are simple, cheap, and more reliable when set up correctly. my current jeep works. plain and simple. it'll go where i point it. i am not disapointed with how it performs.

i say all this not to argue that leaves are better. i say it to say that either setup can be made to work. i have just seen too many bent links, broken heims, etc. to make me want to switch. also the cost of heims and links can be expensive depending on design. like i say either way can be made to work you just need to decide and do it! if you would have come to texas instead of atlanta i would help you :flipoff2:

Originally posted by High5
like i say either way can be made to work you just need to decide and do it! if you would have come to texas instead of atlanta i would help you :flipoff2:


:flipoff2: you help me and like it cause i have ho-hos and ding-dongs


drive shafts aren't a problem cuase i run square and i have plenty of slip action.

wheel hop in the front i haven't experienced yet.

csr: you don't "get it" i've seen you wheel:flipoff2:

high5 is right i need to quit fawking off. i've got a good setup know that will go, i just need to start perfecting it. and having to replace the front springs almost everytime i wheel isnt perfect.

oh yeah high5

:flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Originally posted by psf4x4

csr: you don't "get it" i've seen you wheel:flipoff2:

Shhhh, don't tell everybody!

Hey Chris, I went up the right side of Slickrock in the rain last weekend, and didn't roll.:flipoff2:

Originally posted by Azrckcrawler
I wouldn't say S/R suck (the Calmini abortion does, but that's another issue), I believe Tracy Jordan still runs it on his rig. (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=84590) . It obviously works well enough on steep stuff for him to take a win at Calrocks.

Oh, you mean this Tracy Jordan.. :)
http://www.extreme4wheelin.com/images/prorocks/P6093775_m_small.JPG

He did NOT win at Disney.... ;) Actually, most of the stiff 'bump-n-run' slick-rock rigs struggled here. It was quite funny to watch Chris Durham take three tries to get up the waterfall, then Jayson came up in his Samurai with wore-out 36's and CRAWL up it without slipping a tire! :D

Tracy has a trick coil-over/hydro setup on the rear and a stiff S/R on the front. I don't understand his scheme, but it works for him.
Tracy is a GREAT competitor. You could put him in any reliable vehicle and he would still be at the top!

Originally posted by okcrawler


Oh, you mean this Tracy Jordan.. :)
http://www.extreme4wheelin.com/images/prorocks/P6093775_m_small.JPG

He did NOT win at Disney.... ;) Actually, most of the stiff 'bump-n-run' slick-rock rigs struggled here. It was quite funny to watch Chris Durham take three tries to get up the waterfall, then Jayson came up in his Samurai with wore-out 36's and CRAWL up it without slipping a tire! :D

Tracy has a trick coil-over/hydro setup on the rear and a stiff S/R on the front. I don't understand his scheme, but it works for him.
Tracy is a GREAT competitor. You could put him in any reliable vehicle and he would still be at the top!

I believe Tracy's setup and Don Robbins setup are both spring under S/R. I wonder if they run the stiffer front to have better off camber capabilities? I have seen rigs with soft supensions front and rear basically roll on obstacles a leaf sprung rig can balance thru on two wheels. Tradeoffs.

The coil systems have alot of good stuff, but they are expensive and they blow on off camber situations. they way i look at it, i got 4 leaf springs and 4 shackles. with coils, i have 4 coil springs, 8 links, a panhard bar and limiting straps. to much stuff to break for my taste.

Originally posted by nozuk


hey geoff if you you did'nt drive your samurai like flawkin l little ricer car you would'nt have those problems. Set up your suspension rite if you actually did stuff like that your self it would'nt be set up rite. thats why dave put it on for cuz you suck at mechanicis everyone does stuff for you
:flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

A) I don't autocross or drag my Samurai. I rockcrawl and mudbog it. I haven't seen too many "flawkin l little ricer cars" doing much of that lately.

B) If a rig can't handle street driving (yes, my Samurai remains my daily driver and in fact it just completed a cross-country drive with no driveshaft or U-joint problems) then how can it be expected to hold up to trail abuse?

C) Neither Dave nor anybody else besides me installed my suspension. Admittedly, I didn't weld the brackets (Canyon State made them) or the rear missing links (Chris Villarreal made them) but I installed it all. I don't have money to waste having anyone else work on my rig. But even if I did want or need any of Dave's help, he was too busy running his business to waste his time doing something that anyone with basic tools can do themselves.

D) From Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913):
mechanic: n
A mechanician; an artisan; an artificer; one who practices any mechanic art; one skilled or employed in shaping and uniting materials, as wood, metal, etc., into any kind of structure, machine, or other object, requiring the use of tools, or instruments.

Although skill is relative, I do my own work on my Samurai with my own tools. I'm not ASE-certified, but I have been working on this Samurai since 1994 and it is uniquely mine. It was not built in a shop; it was built in front of my own homes with very limited help from others. So I'd have to argue that you're wrong with your statement that I'm not at least an amateur mechanic.

E) Maybe the reason why you are nozuk is because your mechanic's skills are as advanced as your spelling, grammar, and vocabulary? Just a theory... :confused:

:flipoff: :flipoff: :flipoff:

and i'm sure you rebuilt and installed your own motor to and my E) Maybe the reason why you are nozuk is because your mechanic's skills are as advanced as your spelling, grammar, and vocabulary? Just a theory... hmm i've rebuilt four motors, like 4 t-cases, four or five suspensions and the vobabulary is cuz i'm 16 dip shit :flipoff: :flipoff: :flipoff: :p :p :p

Originally posted by zukiman

:crybaby:

Boy, ORC is lucky to have you aboard!:rolleyes: Why don't you stay over there?:flipoff2:

Originally posted by nozuk
and i'm sure you rebuilt and installed your own motor to and my hmm i've rebuilt four motors, like 4 t-cases, four or five suspensions and the vobabulary is cuz i'm 16 dip shit :flipoff: :flipoff: :flipoff: :p :p :p
FYI, this was the first motor I've rebuilt. And yes, I did the work, but with the assistance of the FSM and Dave's supervision. For my first motor, it seems to be holding up pretty well since it's over 2 years old now without a single problem.

As for t-cases, I've only built 2 of them. But geez, they're so hard. :flipoff2:

Suspension? This is the 3rd setup on my rig, I've helped numerous others with theirs, and I installed the suspension on my sister's X-90. Big deal.

And your vocabulary? I would have thought that at your age, you would have completed grade school by now, but I guess I'm wrong again. I stand corrected. :flipoff:

Originally posted by CSR
Boy, ORC is lucky to have you aboard! Why don't you stay over there?

If you haven't noticed, I don't post here very often. The only time I do is when I can offer real advice to serious questions. At the start of this thread I offered a reasonable bit of input. I got jumped on as usual, but I know it's the nature of this board for the "cool" members to pick on the "un-cool" members, just like in Junior High. But now it seems like everyone's getting sand in their vaginas. :D I'd suggest Summer's Eve, but I think some of you are gonna need to call Roto-Rooter. :girly:

hey geoff i heard it was smoking at the rubicon :p

Originally posted by nozuk
hey geoff i heard it was smoking at the rubicon :p

Yeah, I think it has a bad valve seat in the #2 cylinder. :( Whenever it runs at low RPM for extended periods of time, it builds up oil in the cylinder and smokes a little. It never smokes during normal driving, but it's done that ever since new. At first I thought it was just the new rings, but that's not the case. Regardless, that would be a fault of the machine shop, not of mine. It's proven to not be a problem for me (other than a bit embarassing on the trail) since it's always run like a champ, so I haven't bothered to repair it. It needs a quart of oil about every 2000 highway miles (during which it runs a steady 5000rpm). If it gets worse, I'll just make the repairs then. Until that time, it's nothing to worry about.

Originally posted by zukiman
since it's always run like a champ, s

i rode in pos green joloppy last time you big ass was down here i'm just fuckin with yah dip :jeep3: i had to give you some shit

seen i havn't been able to make fun of you i along time


Chris:p :p :p :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :p :p :p

Originally posted by High5
the cool thing about coils is you can move your front forward wich will greatly increase your aproach angle.


This is the numero uno reason I went coil in the rear and plan to eventually go coil in the front. Leaf suspension is far and away simpler than coils, but the advantages of a properly built coil suspension (better ride, better articulation, better approach/departure angles) made the effort worthwhile for me.

All this time you've been hiding behind a screen name. You still didn't say your last name so I'm having trouble figuring out who you are.

If you're Chris Conley, what's up with the attitude, dude? You used to be pretty cool. Now you're coming across as a big gaping butthole. Remind me to punch you the next time I see you. Get your ass out from in front of the computer and do some 'wheeling! :flipoff2: :p

Originally posted by zukiman
But now it seems like everyone's getting sand in their vaginas. :D I'd suggest Summer's Eve, but I think some of you are gonna need to call Roto-Rooter. :girly:

Hey, I clean myself regularly!:flipoff2:

i don't have a problem with the way my rig handles, flex, or anything perfromance wise. she goes. maybe i should just get a spotter work a crap that can look out for more than the pumbkin

Originally posted by psf4x4
i don't have a problem with the way my rig handles, flex, or anything perfromance wise. she goes. maybe i should just get a spotter work a crap that can look out for more than the pumbkin

one way or another, you need to fix it.

yah thats me but i'm just messin around with yah dude

i can't go wheelin till i get one and no one will come pick me up when they go



so i'm joining bills club:p

Originally posted by okcrawler


Jayson came up in his Samurai with wore-out 36's and CRAWL up it without slipping a tire! :D


is that Jason Tharp?

Originally posted by zukiman

If you're Chris Conley, what's up with the attitude, dude? You used to be pretty cool. Now you're coming across as a big gaping butthole. Remind me to punch you the next time I see you. Get your ass out from in front of the computer and do some 'wheeling! :flipoff2: :p

Geoff, don't let him get to ya.........and to think I could have been his daddy, if an old bull dog had not beat me down the Alley....LOL

j/k Chris

i'll remenber that next time i see yah so i can slap you up side your bald dented head :p :flipoff2:



you old fogys are pretty funny :p :p :p