Well I went crazy yesterday and bought some stuff. I picked up a 76 Sedan DeVille with a caddy 500. I will be ordering the adapter and headers from Max Torque next. I am totally jazzed, and bought a set of 38-12.5 tsls on 10s too. The YJ is coming together.

Isn't the '76 500 fuel injected? I know that there was one year in the '70s that had factory fuel injection and for some reason '76 sticks in my mind.

There is only two things wrong with the Caddy 500 engines. First thing you should do is put a timing chain in that engine. The timing chain gear is nylon and they will just break in time. MTS sells a stock replacement that is steel for I think around $25. Next thing is if you can afford it is to put a cam. The stock cams have the wrong profile on the lobe so the lifters don't spin at a low rpm. I have got my 500 heads done and I am waiting for the cylinder head flow numbers so my cam guy can build the cam for it. I will post the flow numbers if anyone wants them. I should have them by the end of the week.

Please keep us posted with the progress of your engine swap. I'm interested in how well these engines swap in and how they perform.


:cool:

Originally posted by Donovan
There is only two things wrong with the Caddy 500 engines. First thing you should do is put a timing chain in that engine. The timing chain gear is nylon and they will just break in time. MTS sells a stock replacement that is steel for I think around $25. Next thing is if you can afford it is to put a cam. The stock cams have the wrong profile on the lobe so the lifters don't spin at a low rpm. I have got my 500 heads done and I am waiting for the cylinder head flow numbers so my cam guy can build the cam for it. I will post the flow numbers if anyone wants them. I should have them by the end of the week.


I'd like to see what those numbers are. What casting number? What all has been dont to them?

Brook

wheelinjp, You sure that's a 500 and not the 472 or 425? :p I've looked at a few Deville's and they were either the 472 (71 and 73) or the 425(77,78,79) Granted it was in CA :(

Out of curiousity, what are you doing about cooling and the rest of the drivetrain?

I've been looking into one for a new project rig :p

yes, keep us posted on the swap....also to Donovan, please keep us posted on your numbers....are they the 76 cc heads? I've got a set of 120's ad 76's for mine when I get around to putting it together.

Thanks,
Justin

Originally posted by Brook "bgreen" Green



I'd like to see what those numbers are. What casting number? What all has been dont to them?

Brook

It is a bone stock 500 out of a 74 Eldo. I had them take .03 off the heads so I could get the compression up to around 9 to 1. I had them rebuild the stock heads. I am having the heads flowed with the manifold and carb on it. So the flow numbers will be down from what you guys would accept but this is the true way to build a cam for a engine. I will post cam spec when I get them. BTW my brother runs a 500 in is 73 Nova. The is 12.9-1 compress and make 650 dyno'd horses. The car has ran 11.66et @118mph in Denver with a 30 inch tall tire and 2300 stall. These engines are the best thing going I believe.

Originally posted by TNScrambler
yes, keep us posted on the swap....also to Donovan, please keep us posted on your numbers....are they the 76 cc heads? I've got a set of 120's ad 76's for mine when I get around to putting it together.

Thanks,
Justin

They are the 120 cc heads. If I was building one for scatch I would go with the 76 cc heads and run as much compression as possible.

Don't forget to put a decent intake on it, the factory one has a piss poor design. Another note, if you want a shitload of compression, use the 76cc heads on a block that originaly had the 120 cc heads :D

can't believe your going from a killer cj to a killer yj. I can't wait to see it. Remember if you need the bender let me know. You will have to sink 4 inserts and thats it. I built and stand and all

arndog

mmmm a budie and I put a 62 IH cab and box on a 78 cupe-davill frame/drive tran it has the 425 one nice smooth engine, pased everything but the gas station and he got the Cad for $500.00 and it was a DD

If your running 493 heads with .030 milled off, make sure to check your piston to valve clearance ;) Edlebrock Manifold is worth the money.

Brook

Well I am glad to see a large spark of interest.

Lil John, It is a 76 sedan deville and it even says 500 cid on the engine compartment label.

CSP, I understand the 76 eldos came in a limited number with F-I and it is pretty rare. Neither of the ones we bought were injected YET!!!! I am looking into trying a 454 tbi set up on it if I can adapt the throttle body to the square bore intake.

Donovan, I thank you for the advice, and will be putting a new timing chain on it. As far as the cam and head work, I will be happy with the stock performance for now. This is going into a trail rig.

Scoutillac, I am definitely going with the new edelbrock intake. I would like to try and inject it but havent had the time to research it at all yet. I will also be putting headers on it for the added 30hp and weight loss. I cant believe these motors weigh less than a sbc 350 when trimmed down to alum. intake and headers. I will also be trying to make my own adapter for the caddy heads to a ford 460 valve cover.

Arndog, hey man thanks for the compliments, and the offer on the bender, I have moved and gotten married in the last two months or so , so needless to say I was pretty busy.

My friend and I acctually bought 2 caddys from the same guy for 600 bucks. they both have 500s. His is an eldo and mine is the sedan. His will be going in a 91 YJ as well. We are both planning on running th350s and d300s. Mine has a d44 front and a ff14 bolt rear with 4.56s and lockers. I plan on running 38-13-16 TSLs on 8in rims.The axles are 62in wms to wms stock. this will all ride on waggy 7 leafs front and rear. For cooling we plan to run 27x19 alum Griffin 2cores.

Does anyone know if I have to run the Eldo rear sump oil pan for certain? With 38s and my lift I cant imagine there being a diff to pan clearance issue.

wheelinjp,
Cool.... I just spent a day running around the PnPs around here looking them over and didn't see one 500:(

For cooling we plan to run 27x19 alum Griffin 2cores.

Do you think this will cool the 500? FWIW, the rad I measured in two cady's were 34"x19"x2.5".

I'm looking forward to hearing more about this :p

BTW, do you thing the TH350 will hold up? Is there a reason you are going with one over the TH400? Length?

I had a Ford Courier whith a 500 Caddy and it ran 12.80's in the 1/4 mile stoc.:D :D

I am comfortable with the radiator since the alum unpainted will dissipate the heat better than the 4 core stock one. The griffin is 2 1in. cores which has a better heat exchange rate than the stock brass one. The reason behind the th350 is length as well. We will be using these for trail and street use so I wont be drag racing anyone. The th350s will be built with all HD parts. I ran a 400hp 355 sbc in front of a th350 on a drag car for 2yrs and never had a problem. I just like the caddy for the 300hp and 450 ft.lbs. of torque. We are taking a risk of breaking the tranny and t-case, but the other alternatives are unacceptable. I wont run a th350-np205 because of three things 1 they have a terrible 1.96 to1 low, 2 the adapters between the tranny and t-case crack often, and 3 they hang down too low and for the money of the clocking ring the other two reasons out weigh it not to mention the weight. The only other alternative is the Atlas 2. Cost is too high to justify. So I will run the dana 300 and eventually get the output shaft upgrade and 4 to 1 gears. I will keep yall posted on how the swap goes, and thanks for the response.


Now I still need to know of the oil pan question in my last reply. Please help.

Hey look at the 472s as well they are just as bad ass as the 500s with a little work. They are barely less torque stock even. I would run a 472 if I hadnt found the 500.

ABBA I dont know how you fit that in a courier, but that is cool. Nice job at the tough truck, I love the look (and performance) of your binder. two words BAD ASS.

I am running a 1969 472 in my DD work truck tow rig. It has the edelbrock intake a 268 gring comp cams camshaft and a rering. It had 180,000 miles on it when I got it and it had no ridge at the top of the cylinders and was 1.5 thousandths over stock bore. Anyway the griffin 27x19 should cool the low compression engines easily. I run that rad with the 1.25 cores and it does pretty well in my 65 chevy truck which has a small grille opening for a pickup and also has the 10.5 to 1 compression. I pull an 7000 pound (loaded) trailer daily and with 33-15.50 sx's and 4.10's I get 11.5 mpg in stop and go traffic. On the freeway at 75 it gets 12 to 12.5 mpg's. I thing that this is the best thing about this engine, it pulls hard and still gets a minimum of 10-11 mpg. The only thing I need to do on my is install the Holley projection that is sitting on the floor here and put on an MSD ignition so I can run the dash mounted timing advance and retard. With the high compression when pulling a load in 100 degree heat the temps rise to 215-225 and then it will detonate at 3/4 or full throttle. Retarding the timing while it cools off should help that a lot. Anyway I am no expert but I have had the experience of running these engines for a couple of years so i anyone has any questions ask away. Later

Originally posted by wheelinjp
I will keep yall posted on how the swap goes, and thanks for the response.


Cool :p A guinni pig to tell us what doesn't work :p

Originally posted by wheelinjp
Now I still need to know of the oil pan question in my last reply. Please help.


From what I saw, the 1977-1979 425 in a Deville had a sump toward the rear... it had about a 2 inch gap between the true rear of the engine and the back of the pan.

According to Cad500 or flashcraft, the pan and pickup will work with the 472 and 500s.

I'm not sure if this is the true rear sump or a "mid sump" though.

It is DEFINATELY alot further back than the front sump that I saw on the 71 and 73 Deville's :p

Originally posted by wheelinjp
Hey look at the 472s as well they are just as bad ass as the 500s with a little work. They are barely less torque stock even. I would run a 472 if I hadnt found the 500.

Actually I was just commenting on the fact that I looked at about a dozen 70's Cady's and they were either 472's or 425's.

From all the reading I've done, the 472's are a little more revy... relatively speaking. The other thing I read is it is easy to convert the 5200 series caddy block from a 472 to a 500.

I don't know... There's something about saying "half a kilo of cubes" :p

ok say if I go look for a cad motor how can we tell the difrance between a 500, 472, or 425

Wheelinjp, If you replace the timing chain, don't buy one from Auto Zone. I bought one there for $18 and about 200 miles later it jumped and pretty much knocked my car out of commision. I guess you get what you pay for.

Cheif, the 472s and 500 shared everything but the crank and pistons, so you can't tell for sure without pulling the pan and messureing the stroke. 472's were used from 68 to 76, and 500's were used from 70-76, and the 425's were 77 on. Most 425s have the rear sump oil pan that is handy for there big brother in swaps, where as the 472/500 rear sump is harder to find.

here are some casting #:
Blocks:
69-70 145200,1495200
69-74 195200
70-76 1495200

Heads:
472:
68 3633123
68-69 1488280
70 1495950, 3633450
472/500:
70-74 1497902
72-76 3633544
500:
72-76 3633964

Here is somthing to ponder for you all:

0.030 caddie 500 block + offset ground crank for 4.580 stroke + BBC long rods (6.800) + a set of new pistons = 540 CI!!!

JYS

Originally posted by Chief Yelling Alot
ok say if I go look for a cad motor how can we tell the difrance between a 500, 472, or 425

In car is pretty easy... check the emissions tag:p From my xerox'd copy of a manual, 77+ are the 425's.

Out of car, check the block number. If it has 5200 in it, it is either a 472 or 500.

You need to pull the oil pan off to figure out if it is a 472 or 500... numbers on the crank.

BTW, do a search on the internet on "Cadillac 500" and you will find out all the information you want to know :p

Originally posted by wheelinjp
and bought a set of 38-12.5 tsls on 10s too.

Take a grooving iron, two diagonal cuts per center lug, about 5 pounds of air, and those tires will stick like GLUE. Great choice!

Hey, I'm glad to see some stuff about someone else going with a 500 caddy. I'm actually starting the swap into my CJ-7 tomorrow. I'm going with a TH400 though and a divorced 205 (strength is my main concern). I stretched the wheelbase to deal with the length issue. I bought a '75 De Ville with the 500 in it and pulled it out to use, but found a better one, pretty much ready to go, out of a '71 Eldorado. Let us know of any problems you run into. Also, does anyone know of a radiator adequate for this motor that I can find at a wrecking yard that'll fit in a jeep?

BigVic, I would pick up a Summit catalog for mail order speed parts and just get a 27x19 Griffin alum radiator. They are 180.00 and that is new.

Thanks, I'll check it out.

Hey BIGVIC I am interested in hearing how yours goes as well. The description in your sig line sounds pretty badass. I am definitely buying the headers and the intake like I mentioned before. We want to inject ours as well. We pulled those motors last night, and Im telling you what the f-cken Eldo can go straight to hell. The damn axle shaft had to be removed to pull it. So with a couple of fat ol nitwits(my friend and I) doing it in the dark in grass(just moved and shop not yet built) in the rain, it took from 5pm to 11pm. We were pissed. It sucks too since the Eldo we were pulling it from is in nice shape and we were told to sell it w/out the motor for no less than 300.00 so we didnt want to torch nothing .

So I am remnaming my JEEP to



WRANGLERADO

Originally posted by bgreen
If your running 493 heads with .030 milled off, make sure to check your piston to valve clearance ;) Edlebrock Manifold is worth the money.

Brook

Well I said that I would get you guys the flow figures on the cylinder heads. If you want a list of the number let me know and I can get them to you. The stock manifold with the plentum reworked will make flow enough to make between 400-425HP. The heads flow 200cfm@.450 lift. Now this is with a stock head and valves nothing done except a 3 angle valve job and new guides. So I would say don't buy the Edelbrock manifold unless you need to drop 35 pounds off the engine weight. I did flow the edelbrock manifold and it flowed only 10cfm at .400" lift. I will get some pictures of the plentum if you guys want them. But all in all this stock engine will put just about any 454 to shame. Any questions let me know.

10cfm at .400" lift. I will get some pictures of the plentum if you guys want them. But all in all this stock engine will put just about any 454 to shame. Any questions let me know.


I hope that was supposed to be 100 CFM :eek:

I have never ran a stock edlebrock manifold. Just a re-worked one from Cad Company. I cant complain though, it was free :flipoff2:

Originally posted by bgreen



I hope that was supposed to be 100 CFM :eek:

I have never ran a stock edlebrock manifold. Just a re-worked one from Cad Company. I cant complain though, it was free :flipoff2:

No the edelbrock only flowed 10 cfm more than the reworked stocker. Not worth the money in my opinion. A person should put that money towards a good camshaft.

what are your cam specs?

Im running 560 lift, would the edle work better at higher lifts than the ported stock one?

I didn't bring my numbers home for work but I think that it was just starting to pull away a .550"lift but I didn't check it any higher than .550. I think it made right around 10-12 cfm more than the stocker. I will check tomorrow. When I get my cam specs I will post that too. The cam specs will be different then what most people are using now I believe.