I heard guys sayin their auto tranny cavitates or sucks air or whatever on really steep hills and wont transfer power. Then I watch that video of Durham from donner when he was on his side an still gassin it and everything was fine. He's running an automatic right? Has anyone else ever been on their side or roof and did the tranny still work fine?

I have been wondering the same thing???? anyone?

Put mine on its side at Moab. Used the rear steer to put it back up on its wheels. It went back up on the tires so fast I almost crushed some people that ran up to the truck.:eek: WARNING!! If its running, stay away from the rig!!! T-350 Tranny.:D

I've never had mine cavitate I've had mine so vertical that the seat belt holds my butt in the seat, the seat back was past 90 degrees, with no problems, I've also had it on it's side no problems.

for a short period of time it will be fine, leave it there too long and it will burn the belts and it will start to slip up like it has a histall in it.


NICK

In theory an auto shouldn't run on it's side or upside down.

But in practical situations they will run at severe angles for quite sometime. If they have the fluid avalible they will still run. You would have to take them beyond 90 degrees side ways to get all the fluid away from the pickup. Just keep 'em topped off and they won't complain at 'most' angles.

An external cooler and overfilling a little helps too.

In this situation, is there any auto that doesn't do well at steep angles or on its side? I've been thinking about a TF727 swap, and this is the one thing that makes me hesitate.

If you insall an accumalator, made for engine oil but I think it would work here, wouldn't that offer some additional fluid for these types of situations?

Where's Bigdude, he runs an auto, and I'm sure he's been in this situation :D

Originally posted by NIC
for a short period of time it will be fine, leave it there too long and it will burn the belts and it will start to slip up like it has a histall in it.
NICK

I have never seen a mush box with belts?

At the last CalRocs Walker's rig rolled onto it's side. He wanted to drive out of it but the tranny would not work on it's side. No power at all to the wheels.

http://www.allprooffroad.com/xtoys/2002calrocdonner/1045.jpg

I wonder if it makes a difference. :confused: Walker was on his 'left' side, Chris Durham was on his 'right' side and he was able to spin all four tires. He spun the hell outta them too.:eek::D

Do they run the same transmission?? Anyone know?? I don't think so but not sure. Doesn't Walker have that 4L80E (or something like that)?? :(

Originally posted by Glenn

Do they run the same transmission?? Anyone know??

Just a guess, But I think Walker would have a 4LE60 and Chris a TF727

One consideration......

I have heard stories of parts carnage when an auto tranny cavitated(sucked air) and was revved enough to pull oil again. The sudden surge of MLP caused the tranny to hit hard enough to break parts further down line.

Originally posted by Glenn
I wonder if it makes a difference. :confused: Walker was on his 'left' side, Chris Durham was on his 'right' side and he was able to spin all four tires. He spun the hell outta them too.:eek::D


Yep last weekend Mike was driving in the first pic, and the second was no go:D Seems he usally can't drive out of as much of a flop on his left vs. right with a 700R4 You can also see that he really needed to kill the motor then anyway.

Anyone know what causes the difference between each side, and how it affects a auto?

http://www.mntoyx4.com/trailside/2002/jacobs902/IMG_1008-01.jpg
http://www.mntoyx4.com/trailside/2002/jacobs902/IMG_1009-01.jpg

Probably depends on what side the oil pick up is on.
On the uphill side, no go.
On the downhill side, might go.

in the pic walker is on his drivers side not running, but i have seen a video somewhere (i have no clue where it was) on the net of him spinnin all four, smoke and all when he rolled on his passengers side. tranny had no problem then.

On the 727 the pick-up is in the middle. With the deep pan and extended pick-up I've had mine on the side and still spun the tires. I've got a good extra 4 quarts in the system, should be enough to keep the pickup in ATF in all but turtle position......

Originally posted by jdjanda
On the 727 the pick-up is in the middle. With the deep pan and extended pick-up I've had mine on the side and still spun the tires. I've got a good extra 4 quarts in the system, should be enough to keep the pickup in ATF in all but turtle position......

Thats another thing I was wondering... if you say had no problem pulling fluid in, in the turtle position, would it not work anyway since all the valves would be upside down? never mind the fluid draining back in to the body of the tranny?

Originally posted by Travis Waldher


Thats another thing I was wondering... if you say had no problem pulling fluid in, in the turtle position, would it not work anyway since all the valves would be upside down? never mind the fluid draining back in to the body of the tranny?

In turtle the pick-up now at the top of the pan along with all the air. FYI, but an auto is like a motor, the oil is in the pan and is pumped through various passages, and should not be filled to the point where the rotational parts are submerged in fluid. So when you turtle just like with a motor all the fluid moves down and fills the voids where it would not normally be found, and thus your pick up sucks air.

A cooler doesn't add any extra ATF in the pan, that is where the pickup is. The accumalator would also do no good as well, there is no good way to plumb it in to the system where the ATF needs to be. The return line of the tranny cooler lines, just dumps into the pan.

Originally posted by Glenn
I wonder if it makes a difference. :confused: Walker was on his 'left' side, Chris Durham was on his 'right' side and he was able to spin all four tires. He spun the hell outta them too.:eek::D

Do they run the same transmission?? Anyone know?? I don't think so but not sure. Doesn't Walker have that 4L80E (or something like that)?? :(

Well, "The Anouncer" up at Donner..oh, wait, that would be you!..anyway, you stated that Chris's tranny was a 904...Which I thought was odd since I thought he ran a 999.

Originally posted by emsoffroad
A cooler doesn't add any extra ATF in the pan, that is where the pickup is. The accumalator would also do no good as well, there is no good way to plumb it in to the system where the ATF needs to be. The return line of the tranny cooler lines, just dumps into the pan.

wouldn't the accumulator dump it's stash of ATF into the pan and the pick-up would now have ATF to send to the pump?

Originally posted by Scout Dude


Well, "The Anouncer" up at Donner..oh, wait, that would be you!..anyway, you stated that Chris's tranny was a 904...Which I thought was odd since I thought he ran a 999.

:eek: That was me, wasn't it?? I was reading off a fact sheet but I didn't memorize them... :( Coulda been a 904. I've never heard of a 904 either.... :confused: :flipoff2:

Originally posted by Glenn


:eek: That was me, wasn't it?? I was reading off a fact sheet but I didn't memorize them... :( Coulda been a 904. I've never heard of a 904 either.... :confused: :flipoff2:

This fact sheet shows it as a 727!

Team 16, page 2
http://www.rockcrawler.com/features/newsshorts/02march/prorock_team_info.pdf

Originally posted by Old Scout


This fact sheet shows it as a 727!

Team 16, page 2
http://www.rockcrawler.com/features/newsshorts/02march/prorock_team_info.pdf


That fact sheet is from Feb. The fact sheet I had was filled out by the drivers as they signed in for Calrocs that day. I see on the old fact sheet that Joel Randall had a 904. Maybe Chris changed his... :confused: I still don't know what a 904 is... :( Chrysler??

I have lost pressure on a near rollover situation with my Chevy K20 with a 700R4. I was pointing uphill but leaning far over to the left. My front end was blown from earlier in the weekend so I was in a bad situation. I only had two wheel drive so I had to back out. What I wanted to do was mash the throttle hard and straightend the truck out but the tranny had a mind of its own. It was like ratcheting on the power. Power would transfer for a millisecond then it would be on neutral for a millisecond and this would go on over and over at the same time my wheels were digging deeper holes. If it were not for the long bed wheelbase we would have rolled. Anyways my friends happened along and pulled me straight and free. So it seems the trans can cavitate when tilted to the left and especially when uphill also. Ever since that happened I wanted to put in a deep sump pan. Since then I've put in a Turbo 400 so I'm not sure if I need one yet. Saw some sweet looking cast aluminum deep pans at the Sand Sport Show last week.

Jason :)

Someone's gotta say it.

Guess it'll be me. :rolleyes:

My manual tranny runs at any angle. :p

I had mine on it's side and it ran fine.T350.

If they are full they won't cavitate for the short period of time you are over. I've had mine cavitate on big angles (on it's side) but only when it was down on fluid. When the fluid is topped up, it ran fine on it's side. Make sure your dipstick is sealed.

Tim.

Originally posted by Glenn

I still don't know what a 904 is... :( Chrysler??

Yep, Chrysler..it's what comes in 4 cyl wranglers (And maybe cherokees too..I dunno). It's basically a smaller 999 which is a smaller 727.

Originally posted by randii
Someone's gotta say it.

Guess it'll be me. :rolleyes:

My manual tranny runs at any angle. :p Thats because everyone else can read what the topic is about.

WOLF359 what did you use for a dipstick that seals tight. Im looking for one. I have a stock one and I recantly put my truck on its side and the fluid poured out around the dipstick got onto my headers and cought on FIRE. It was a mess. So Im looking for a locking sealed dipstick and cant seem to find one.

Originally posted by TEAM X-TREME
...the fluid poured out around the dipstick got onto my headers and cought on FIRE.
My manual tranny doesn't leak around the dipstick. :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Just backin' up Randii;)

Newer GMC's have a flip handle on them, I believe that they seal pretty good.
Rich

Riggin up something like a boat plug would work good. The flip top kind....

Originally posted by Old Scout


wouldn't the accumulator dump it's stash of ATF into the pan and the pick-up would now have ATF to send to the pump?

Very true, but you would still already have that air that got into the system. It may be enough to give you another second of clutch ingagement, but in the end it won't keep it from happening. If you were good enough you might be able to tap into the case where it goes into the pump, but there again it will only help for a split second. Unlike an engine where the oil must follow one passage, there for hold the pressure. Trannies have alot of place for the ATF to go, therefore holding the pressure up would be next to imposable.

Now if you had a real large volume one, that flooded the pan. It would work great. Only problem then is how do you get the extra back into the accumulator. Since auto's don't like to have to much in them.

Originally posted by Old Scout


I have never seen a mush box with belts?

just generalising about autos.



NICK

My manual tranny doesn't leak around the dipstick. :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:
Apparently, that too is because everyone else can read what the topic is about. :rolleyes: :p :rolleyes:

Originally posted by randii
My manual tranny doesn't leak around the dipstick. :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:
Apparently, that too is because everyone else can read what the topic is about. :rolleyes: :p :rolleyes:

Manuals will leak also out of the breather and the area where the stick enters the case so :flipoff2:

Originally posted by Big Rich
Newer GMC's have a flip handle on them, I believe that they seal pretty good.
Rich

I totally forgot about the dip stick. During the rebuild I tapped the case for a hose barb and blocked the breather behind the pump to help avoid fluid loss during turtle. Guess I better find a solution for the dip stick :p

Originally posted by emsoffroad
Now if you had a real large volume one, that flooded the pan. It would work great. Only problem then is how do you get the extra back into the accumulator. Since auto's don't like to have to much in them.

It obvious that your not clear on the operation of a accumulator. A accumulator has a pressure bladder that will release it's contents to the system when the pressure falls below its set pressure. When the pressure of the system returns to normal it will refill itself automatically

Originally posted by LAME


Yep last weekend Mike was driving in the first pic, and the second was no go:D Seems he usally can't drive out of as much of a flop on his left vs. right with a 700R4 You can also see that he really needed to kill the motor then anyway.

Anyone know what causes the difference between each side, and how it affects a auto?

http://www.mntoyx4.com/trailside/2002/jacobs902/IMG_1008-01.jpg
http://www.mntoyx4.com/trailside/2002/jacobs902/IMG_1009-01.jpg

Hey lame What happened to tread lightly,that doesn't look like a trail to me!!!!!!!!!

ok.. this all got me thinking.... what iff.......

ok.. you run a hose from the pickup of the tranny in the pan to a low volume pump to keep the fluid going in at funny angles. Then a pickup tube off the side of the pan to pull inthe new fluid and an extra 2-3 quart tank that the pump feeds from?

Originally posted by Travis Waldher
ok.. this all got me thinking.... what iff.......

ok.. you run a hose from the pickup of the tranny in the pan to a low volume pump to keep the fluid going in at funny angles. Then a pickup tube off the side of the pan to pull inthe new fluid and an extra 2-3 quart tank that the pump feeds from?

You mean a DRY sump set up!:rolleyes:

Originally posted by randii
Someone's gotta say it.

Guess it'll be me. :rolleyes:

My manual tranny runs at any angle. :p

mine too :D although it does tend to drip 90w on my forehead when i am on my side.