What are your thoughts? Here's my beef. They absolutely INSIST that everyone drive their rig for the tour. And not just from camp to trail, but from town to town. That would be okay, but then they brought a whole bunch of illegal rigs, and then put most of them on tires with no DOT approval (correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe the Krawlers are DOT approved yet). And several times in the article they brag about the fact that they're flaunting the law with their caravan of illegal rigs (for the record, some of the rigs were perfectly legit), and only managed one ticket (Pewe') for doing so.

Granted, I know it's just a cheesey mag article. But, is this really a good way to promote our sport? What kind of message does that send? I say put those suckers on trailers where they belong & do it right. Agreed?


TEX

I read the artilce and thought the same thing... How is the 4x4 community to react when a big mag is taking a bunch of street illegal vehicle on a big road trip and bragging about it? Aren't we fighting everyday to keep the laws in our favor just to drive our street "legal" 4x4's on the road?

The topper for me was the "Scout II" in the group - yeah - the full on open wheeled, tube frame, rock buggy. How the hell did he ever get a license plate for that thing???

But its just a magazine, and yes some of the truck were street legal..

The idea was to run street legal rigs from trail to trail... That way it kinda' eliminated the comp buggys. Personally, I think they should keep it the way it is, but enforce the legal part. You know, get back to the dual purpose rigs.

yeah I thought the same thing, but from a slightly different perspective - they should either make it for street legal rigs (and drive them to the trails), or for anything goes, and allow trailering. To say things like that 'Scout' is streetable is a joke. At the same time, there were some very well done, completely street legal TJs and YJs in there. It just makes a mockery of the street legal requirement thing to have these buggies in there. Just like on TTC, they all have to be 'licensed' - come on, most of those rigs either would not or should not be licensed for the road, that whole street driving thing is a complete joke. I'm not saying they shouldn't allow non streetable rigs, I'm saying they should be honest about the fact that the rigs aren't really streetable, admit it, then in the case of the TTC eliminate all the street based events and in the case of the UA allow trailering. It's more truthful.

Maybe they did it because in the real world "street legal" rigs do drive to the trail from camp/town. The town to town is out of hand, though.

Go to EJS, everything is perfectly legit, that is driving around:rolleyes:

Originally posted by uglyscout
I
The topper for me was the "Scout II" in the group - yeah - the full on open wheeled, tube frame, rock buggy. How the hell did he ever get a license plate for that thing???


He is from Texas. Or at lest Sunray built his rig in texas. He is completely legal in Texas.

Originally posted by TEX
What are your thoughts? Here's my beef. They absolutely INSIST that everyone drive their rig for the tour. And not just from camp to trail, but from town to town. That would be okay, but then they brought a whole bunch of illegal rigs, and then put most of them on tires with no DOT approval (correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe the Krawlers are DOT approved yet). And several times in the article they brag about the fact that they're flaunting the law with their caravan of illegal rigs (for the record, some of the rigs were perfectly legit), and only managed one ticket (Pewe') for doing so.

Granted, I know it's just a cheesey mag article. But, is this really a good way to promote our sport? What kind of message does that send? I say put those suckers on trailers where they belong & do it right. Agreed?


TEX

why put em on trailers? why not just keep within the theme of the adventure. streetable street legal rigs.

Hunter

I like how they are always stating rigs must be driven, not trailered and they must bring all the parts and tools they will need on the trip and must be self sufficent. However, they go on to brag about the BFGoodrich( i think) 18 wheeler that follows them with all of the tires and tools they could need or something like that.

Oh well.

Originally posted by MudYoTa


He is from Texas. Or at lest Sunray built his rig in texas. He is completely legal in Texas.

Oh yeah, same goes for Matt Burkett's(sp.) AGR jeep. It is also from TX and legal in TX.

Originally posted by TEX
What are your thoughts? Here's my beef. They absolutely INSIST that everyone drive their rig for the tour. And not just from camp to trail, but from town to town. That would be okay, but then they brought a whole bunch of illegal rigs, and then put most of them on tires with no DOT approval (correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe the Krawlers are DOT approved yet). And several times in the article they brag about the fact that they're flaunting the law with their caravan of illegal rigs (for the record, some of the rigs were perfectly legit), and only managed one ticket (Pewe') for doing so.

Granted, I know it's just a cheesey mag article. But, is this really a good way to promote our sport? What kind of message does that send? I say put those suckers on trailers where they belong & do it right. Agreed?


TEX

I had been thinking about posting something like your post myself. What a bunch of B.S. (and that doesn’t stand for back spacing). IRRESPONSIBLE to the max. :mad:

Oh yeah, on the Avalanche site under the Ultimate WTF Tour they had this pic with BFG tractor trailer support truck with them (not sure but if it accompanied them the entire trip). Hell who couldn’t make a trip with a support crew like that. Not to pick on Avalanche but in the same picture notice the lack of windshields wipers on Clifton’s Jeep. Guess wipers aren’t required in Colorado to be street legal. :confused:

Yeah Tex, it is a cheesy mag article to say the least. Having seen Pewe’s :rainbow: "Ultimate” M38A1 up close and personal the term Bootie Fab comes to mind. Last year when they did the buildup in the mag the mag pics really make it look good.No way that think could be legal in California.


Good job 4-Wheel and Off Road. :flipoff: :flipoff: :flipoff: You are really helping preserve wheeling and foster a positive image, you ass bites.

Originally posted by MudYoTa


Oh yeah, same goes for Matt Burkett's(sp.) AGR jeep. It is also from TX and legal in TX.

I live in TX and I don't think they are legal in TX. Do you think they could pass the state safety inspection and all have emergency brakes, wipers, horns, etc.? They may have tags but that sure doesn't make them legal.

Oh, and on a side note, WTF was with the guy running Claws BACKWARDS? :confused: :D


TEX

Originally posted by MudYoTa


Oh yeah, same goes for Matt Burkett's(sp.) AGR jeep. It is also from TX and legal in TX.

who gives a fawlk about TX! Was it only driving in TX?:rolleyes:

Originally posted by nobody20


I live in TX and I don't think they are legal in TX. Do you think they could pass the state safety inspection and all have emergency brakes, wipers, horns, etc.? They may have tags but that sure doesn't make them legal.

You don't have to have a winshield in TX, and im sure they have emergency brakes and horn. And I'm sure they can pass the safety inspections just fine.

Originally posted by Bill4rest


who gives a fawlk about TX! Was it only driving in TX?:rolleyes:

Read what uglyscout wrote:
.
The topper for me was the "Scout II" in the group - yeah - the full on open wheeled, tube frame, rock buggy. How the hell did he ever get a license plate for that thing???
j
Now read my reply:
He is from Texas. Or at lest Sunray built his rig in texas. He is completely legal in Texas.


jackass:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

nobody20, that was the 18 wheeler i was also talking about above.

my rig has no top, no windsheild and its legal in texas. i didn't buy the sticker either. you just have to stick to the law. in texas it doesn't say you have to have a windsheild, it says you have to have a clear field of view. if the tires hang out texas doesn't care on light rigs. every where is different. i have driven my rig 100's of miles in colorado,oklahoma, and utah and never been hasseled. mike

Originally posted by MudYoTa


He is from Texas. Or at lest Sunray built his rig in texas. He is completely legal in Texas.

everything is legal over here, and there are no :rainbow: umbrellas in the gun racks.

Originally posted by uglyscout

The topper for me was the "Scout II" in the group - yeah - the full on open wheeled, tube frame, rock buggy. How the hell did he ever get a license plate for that thing???



I liked the parts washer article. They talk about the nasty, toxic-oil based crud that builds up under their rig due to Exxon Valdez like oil leaks. Then they use the sprayer to avoid having to go to a car wash where the water will at least be recycled. Where do they think all that oil goes when they hose their rig off in the street? While their at it why not pull the oil drain plug and change the oil in the road at the same time :rolleyes:

Well, I don't want Texas to get all of the credit for iffy vehicles - here in Maryland - if it is old enough and modified, you can get Street rod tags - no inspection and you are allowed to drive to and from events and shows. I really love my buddy's old willys and the looks it gets at trailheads when people notice street rod tags on it - all perfectly legal.

I do think that talking about driving illegal vehicles on road in a national magazine is not a very good idea, but then I can't imagine why anyone expects much more than that from these types of magazines.

Jackie

I think that if the owners were able to get their rigs a plate and tags that would be good enough for the mag. Come awn just about everybody who has to drive their rig to and from the trail is illegal in one way or another. I for one really enjoyed the artical (and the mag) It made me dream of one day doing the same thing. As far as the BFG rig... if you could... wouldn't you have it at your disposal? BFG is just showing off their new krawlers and wants everybody to see them. By giving 4WOR all this stuff is great for them. Now eveybody is going to want their new tires...

Is it Irresponsible of 4WOR? No.. It was irresponsible of the owners who drove an illegal rig on the road

Will it be that detrimental to the off-road community? No.. The local boys in blue have too much other problems to worry about than to harrass a guy with a few code infractions...

Now me personnal would not drive that thing call a "Scout" on the road and not expect a ticket. Hell i drive real nice like with my 85' Yota on 35's and it doesn't look real bad either..

They could legally drive here in FL. All they check here is your VIN number to make sure it matches your title and you get a plate :D I've been driving for a week now with my new windshield on my cage, no wipers, no complaints from the officers :flipoff2:

If you are travelling out of state and driving your rig is it a viable option to pull the "It's legal at home so I didn't know it was different here" excuse????

I also don't agree with writing about it in a national magazine :shaking:

Originally posted by drnut
The local boys in blue have too much other problems to worry about than to harrass a guy with a few code infractions...


Not in Utah they don't(just ask Pewe:D). I'll bet Pewe couldn't drive that thing around town(damn near ANY town), for more than an hour or so without getting ticketed(except MAYBE in Moab during EJS, but I've been ticketed there for much less). Utah BITES for street legality enforcement. Of course the other side of the coin is that they RULE for street legality enforcement, because it makes the roads more safe for the average Joe(rock chips, less damage in accidents, blah, blah, blah...)

WELCOME TO UTAH, HERE'S YOUR TICKET!:mad:

Lighten up guys- I agree they should allow trailers between locations but that caravan is no different than seen in many groups of rec wheelers these days. Sure many get trailered to camp or the hotels but then drive all over once there. I see a lot more booty fab on the posers and the $300 disposable cars and trucks people drive around (you should see some of the scary stuff in the boonies of the midwest).

Many if not most of those rigs are legal in their home states. If you are legal in your state you can't be busted in the other 49 for your wiper blade being the wrong length.

Krawlers are DOT approved (got some in the garage) EVEN the sticky ones.

Rob Harris' scout is a Scorpion- he bought it from Soni and then paid Sunray a wad to take it to the next level. The Scorpion is an easy driver- The original one used to get driven all around this area by the owners mom for kicks, I'm sure it's even better after Rob and Sunray got through with it.

I do agree on one thing- I've seen a rag buildup rig on the trail in CO once, mag made it look sweet- way hack in real life- can you say deathride?

Some states are nutzo with their rules on what makes a rig legal, many are not. I built a kit car in FL about 10 yrs ago, when i registered it they looked over my paperwork and i was expecting a thorough inspection of the car- they never even stepped outside to look at it! A completely homebuilt / assembled car (ok except for the kit) and not even a once over.:eek:

I'll get off the soapbox now

OK here's my take on this. Personally if any vehicle wasn't legal IN THE STATE IT WAS REGISTERED IN then it shouldn't have been allowed and the mag was wrong to brag about it.

Now to just look at pics and judge if vehicels are legal or not would require knowing what state they were from and what the state laws are. Heck here in AL you need windshield wipers, but NO WINDSHIELD. Lots of cab trucks in AL and TN are tagged and probably legal here. Thing is that states have reciprocle agreements and allow whatever is legal in a different state to be legal in their state. I visited CA a few years ago and drove around with no insurance on my car (perfectly legal in AL at the time, CA frowns on it). As long as a vehicle is properly registered in a state and meets that state's requirements, it is legal everywhere.

Robert

I thought the Super Duty was kind of a hazard after they said that the bolts on the bead locks would pop out one after the other as they were driving it down the highway. Seems like if the BL ring popped off that truck could kill someone pretty easy.

Originally posted by G02Guy
Lighten up guys- I agree they should allow trailers between locations but that caravan is no different than seen in many groups of rec wheelers these days.

I think the thing that caught my eye was more the fact that they went out of their way to point out that many of the rigs they had were NOT legal. That & the fact that they don't even ALLOW the rigs to be trailered, even on the longer high-speed drives.

I think we'd be hardpressed to find someone on this board who hasn't been illegal at one point or another. Be it, driving to the muffler shop with open headers, slapping on taller tires AFTER the inspection, swapping tags, camp to trailhead, etc. For the most part, those are the exception.

But, I don't think many folks would do that for 1,200 miles. And at the very least, I doubt most would flaunt the fact that they did it for 1,200 miles by stating "matter of factly" in a magazine that they were hopelessly illegal for the whole trip. I really think that's more the issue. The fact that they touched pavement at all in illegal rigs isn't really anything unusual.

Krawlers are DOT approved (got some in the garage) EVEN the sticky ones.

I stand corrected. And that's a question I've been wanting to have answered for some time. Thanks :)

TEX

Originally posted by Black Dog
I thought the Super Duty was kind of a hazard after they said that the bolts on the bead locks would pop out one after the other as they were driving it down the highway. Seems like if the BL ring popped off that truck could kill someone pretty easy.

Kinda embarrassing for TR, don't ya think? :D


TEX

You're right about flaunting it and the 1200 mile in those kind of rigs is no joy ride. Don't think my 7.17's would like it even with .69/1 OD.:D

Originally posted by drnut
Is it Irresponsible of 4WOR? No.. It was irresponsible of the owners who drove an illegal rig on the road

yes....


. They absolutely INSIST that everyone drive their rig for the tour. And not just from camp to trail, but from town to town.


they allowed it, and then bragged about it....

i've gotten a ticket for driving my ride to trail head from camp...was it irresponsible....yes. would i drive it in downtown atlanta....no.

but i guess it's easier to beg for forgivness than ask for permission. :flipoff2:

Originally posted by G02Guy
You're right about flaunting it and the 1200 mile in those kind of rigs is no joy ride. Don't think my 7.17's would like it even with .69/1 OD.:D

Well, that might not be THAT bad. You've got 42's, right? Or, are they smaller. Even assuming a true diameter of 40", that'd be ~2,500 RPM at 60 MPH. Probably wouldn't want to go much faster than that anyway :D


TEX

Originally posted by psf4x4

i've gotten a ticket for driving my ride to trail head from camp...was it irresponsible....yes.

But you forget to mention that you have no registration, no tag, no insurance, no windshield, no taillights, no body..... Should I go on :D I think if you had a tag, insurance, and blinkers you would've got no ticket

Originally posted by TEX


Kinda embarrassing for TR, don't ya think? :D


TEX

And Avalanche too. I think Avalanche use 3/8" bolts in place of TR's normal 5/16. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Originally posted by bigdude


But you forget to mention that you have no registration, no tag, no insurance, no windshield, no taillights, no body..... Should I go on :D I think if you had a tag, insurance, and blinkers you would've got no ticket


i just like to use the term "not street legal":flipoff2:

i learned my lesson.

totally irresponsible, totally misrepresenting all of us.

they blatantly bragged about getting away with all those vehicle infractions repeatedly in different states and only suffered one encounter with the chp in utah?? every one of our rigs has at least a thing or 2 any cop could ding us on if he wanted to(i have at least 2 handfuls). like we need to be represented as sneakin around trying to avoid the law.

how many hundreds of thousands of people probably read this article and develop an impression of fellow 4wheelers thanks to an irresponsible, misrepresenting artilce. many of us drive to the trails with vehicles that we build and know are safe and well built. but there are tires sticking out past the fenders, frame height too high, mudflaps, heim jointed steering components, beadlocked wheels, etc...

that artilce was inspiring to just jump in the rigs with a few of your buddies and go on a roadie to all the wheelin spots from state to state, but they irresponsibly misrepresented us regarding issues with the law... and that didnt help any of us....:(

Originally posted by G02Guy

Rob Harris' scout is a Scorpion- he bought it from Soni and then paid Sunray a wad to take it to the next level. The Scorpion is an easy driver- The original one used to get driven all around this area by the owners mom for kicks, I'm sure it's even better after Rob and Sunray got through with it.



Help me figure out why Harris' rig is a Scout. :confused: If its a Scorpion has does it get to be a Scout? Where's the Scout?

If they wanna go on a rock crawling safari, then they should have trailered those rigs. IMO they need to be setting examples of good 4 wheeler behavior.

Granted, we probably all, myself included, have driven something in an illegal status on the public highways/raod at one time or another. But we don't drive them on a 1200 mile highway trip and publish and brag about it in a national magazine. Irresponsible of 4WOR.

and I suppose maybe I missed the point at the beginning of this thread- we don't need any magnifying glasses.

i really enjoyed the article and thought it was a great adventure. remember, the mag does stories for the readers and i personally get tired of the same heep on 60's. the pics were awesome and that super duty driver has balls to try some of those trails. and for all you winey-a$$ complaining about the street legal buggies, i got something for you.....:flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Tex says..
"I say put those suckers on trailers where they belong & do it right. Agreed?"
That prooves nothing. Trailer queens are supposed to be able to do all those gnarly trails.
The point of the article as I see it is to show what a well set up daily driver can do. I hardly think any of those are daily drivers or ever were intended to be. What they are is just a built trail rig that's barely street legal if at all. Proves nothing, but it's a good payback for advertisers and friends.

yeah, it was a really good article with some crazy scenery pix, but they told the whole world our secret. how many of you get to the trail in caravans of rigs so as to minimize the chance of the chp putting the effort into pulling you all over? i sneak around on back roads until i hook up with friends in a caravan to avoid the law. the whole world doesnt need to see it in print.....

i always get nailed by the chp in tahoe and on highway 4. no mudflaps, tires stickin out, frame height too high, cracked windshield, doorless, etc but ive never been in an accident in my rig on the street and am not causing anyone else harm. mudflaps and tsl's?? the lugs are too far apart to pick up any rocks on the street!!!!!!

but hey, how about that big ass super duty on helldorado:D :D

:rainbow: its a rag what do you expect..

Mike-

First... they are wrong to flaunt it. The Mags aren't doing our image any favors.

The support truck... well... I understand you are supposed to carry all your own parts, tools, etc. to make the 1200 mile journey.
So what if they had access to it, they shouldn't have used it. That went against their "rules" of the game. for that, I wont give anyone on that run any credibility in their true all around wheeling capabilities.

A "true" wheeler can drive those 1200 miles, do all the trails, break anything, fix it on site with what they have, and keep going.

Originally posted by MudYoTa


Read what uglyscout wrote:
.
The topper for me was the "Scout II" in the group - yeah - the full on open wheeled, tube frame, rock buggy. How the hell did he ever get a license plate for that thing???
j
Now read my reply:
He is from Texas. Or at lest Sunray built his rig in texas. He is completely legal in Texas.


jackass:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I still say who gives a fawlk about TX!:flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Originally posted by Booger Weldz

but hey, how about that big ass super duty on helldorado:D :D

Give me a free PSD SD and have Avalanche do all the work for free and I'll run it anywhere - even Proving Grounds.;)

Here's a pic of it from Avalanche's site with the SD gettin it with two winch line on it.

I'll try the pic again

I think you guys are a bunch of friggin' :crybaby: :crybaby2: I think it's cool they are driving rock buggies on the street. They are probably a hell of a lot safer than Billy Bob Joe's 69 2wd F100 sputtering down the highway. I drive my rig on the road all the time, and have never met a person telling me I was an "irresposible four wheeler" for doing so. Give me a break. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Lance
I think you guys are a bunch of friggin' :crybaby: :crybaby2: I think it's cool they are driving rock buggies on the street. They are probably a hell of a lot safer than Billy Bob Joe's 69 2wd F100 sputtering down the highway. I drive my rig on the road all the time, and have never met a person telling me I was an "irresposible four wheeler" for doing so. Give me a break. :rolleyes:

I don't think driving the buggies on the street is what is considered irresponsible. I think it was the magazines article of them flaunting it that was considered over the line.

Originally posted by Lance
I drive my rig on the road all the time, and have never met a person telling me I was an "irresposible four wheeler" for doing so. Give me a break. :rolleyes:

Utah State Trooper tole Pewe' he was one :flipoff2: Point wasn't whining about buggies on the street. It was the fact that they BRAGGED in the article (and in Pewe's Editorial) that many of them were illegal & that they were driving them anyway.

TEX

Not to be a dick, but:

Main Entry: flaunt
Pronunciation: 'flont, 'flänt
Function: verb
Etymology: perhaps of Scandinavian origin; akin to Old Norse flana to rush around -- more at PLANET
Date: 1566
intransitive senses
1 : to display or obtrude oneself to public notice
2 : to wave or flutter showily <the flag flaunts in the breeze>
transitive senses
1 : to display ostentatiously or impudently : PARADE <flaunting his superiority>
2 : to treat contemptuously <flaunted the rules -- Louis Untermeyer>

Main Entry: flout
Pronunciation: 'flaut
Function: verb
Etymology: probably from Middle English flouten to play the flute, from floute flute
Date: 1551
transitive senses : to treat with contemptuous disregard : SCORN <flouting the rules>
intransitive senses : to indulge in scornful behavior

Sorry, that's just a pet peeve of mine!

Back to the point - YES, stupid and irresponsible. I think they probably want people to think they are cool or something. How lame!

has license plates = street LEGAL. Drove 1200 miles on the highway = STREETABLE. That's all there is to it. Perhaps if some of them were to go in for inspection there would be some issues, but that's not the point. I have a license plate and that's all that counts.

-Jack

Originally posted by IronBenderII
has license plates = street LEGAL.

I have a license plate on my mud racer. And a current 2002 sticker. Keeps the guys at the mud races from whining. But, my tag from the DMV expired in '99. A plate does NOT make you legal. And I don't drive mine on the street :p

These guys pretty much bragged - BRAGGED IN PRINT - about the similar offenses, AND THAT THEY WERE DRIVING THEM ANYWAY. THAT's the issue here ;)


TEX

Originally posted by BillaVista
flaunt
2 : to treat contemptuously <flaunted the rules -- Louis Untermeyer>
flout
transitive senses : to treat with contemptuous disregard : SCORN <flouting the rules>

Looks like they *could* be used to mean the same thing. (just pickin' nits 'cause I can) Bill, you're gramatically correct.

Originally posted by Tex
These guys pretty much bragged - BRAGGED IN PRINT - about the similar offenses, AND THAT THEY WERE DRIVING THEM ANYWAY. THAT's the issue here

I could've done without the continuous references to how illegal their crap is too. It helps perpetuate the myth that it is illegal--whether it's actually illegal or not, I don't f'n care. Say that they're street driving their stuff--the rules said it had to be registered, insured, etc., and point out that they're driving their street legal rigs on the street.

Beadlocks are street legal.
Beadlocks aren't street legal.

My posting either of those two here doesn't make it the truth. My claiming that they're legal in print, doesn't make it the truth. Them claiming that they're not legal in print, doesn't make it the truth.

BUT PEOPLE BELIEVE WHAT THEY READ IN THE MAGAZINE, and if the magazine says that those rigs aren't street legal, then they must not be... and everything else that looks like those rigs, must also not be street legal. Anybody see where I'm going with this?

Originally posted by IronBenderII
has license plates = street LEGAL.

I can't begin to tell you how wrong that is.

You can actually get past a State Patrol inspection get plates, but they'll warn you that you'll get pulled over every 10 minutes for stuff being illegal.

Try bumper heights, fender flares, mud flaps, frame height, head lights, horn, windshield wiper (even if no windshield is required), etc. are required in MANY states.

Funny, pull my flares off, my mud flaps off and flip my windshield down. ok.. I have a license plate, does that still mean I'm legal and won't get a ticket when pulled over?

I think not.

Originally posted by Scott@Rockstomper

BUT PEOPLE BELIEVE WHAT THEY READ IN THE MAGAZINE, and if the magazine says that those rigs aren't street legal, then they must not be... and everything else that looks like those rigs, must also not be street legal. Anybody see where I'm going with this?

Exactly. Honestly, I liked the article. I definitely thought it was nice that we got the specs on all the rigs. And I thought coverage of the trip was pretty decent. Their continuous reference to driving illegal rigs was just kinda irritating. We all knew that there were rigs there that were "borderline" at best. Should have been pretty obvious. They didn't need to come right out & say it, repeatedly - especially since they didn't even allow trailers.

TEX

Oh yeah, same goes for Matt Burkett's(sp.) AGR jeep. It is also from TX and legal in TX.
Fine if they drive 'em in Texas. :rolleyes:

Driving them out of state flaunts the laws of the state they are visiting, and looks bad for our hobby.

Someone is bound to chime in that 'as long as it is legal in the home state, they can't ticket' (which I think is utter hogwash, myself), but let's set the legalities of it aside for a minute... the appearance is one of law-breaking.

We've got enough of an image of lawless yokels already... I believe that this sort of thing just reinforces it. :(

Randii

HMM Maybe they registered some of them as fair weather vehicles.

The arguements being made should be also aimed at avery damn hot rod run that has been featured in a magazine.

Lots of those hotrods are completely street legal then some of them have tires that way the fawk out they pretty much don't have windshield BLAH BLAH BLAH.

I think I'll register my rock buggy as a 1937 ford as a fairweather vehicle when it's done.

Hell I might not even need taillights and signal lights at that point :D

Originally posted by Monkeyboy
The arguements being made should be also aimed at avery damn hot rod run that has been featured in a magazine.
Lots of those hotrods are completely street legal then some of them have tires that way the fawk out they pretty much don't have windshield

And many of those arguments were (in the past) aimed at hotrods. Many of them are still aimed at hotrods.

How many hotrods do you see on the street today?

How many built 4x4's do you see on the street today?

Ever wonder why there's not a lot of hotrods being driven on the street? Put it all together, and in 10 years, 4x4's will be where hotrods are today--in the garage, in the trailer, taken out for shows and that's it.

Keep promoting the idea that 4x4's aren't street legal, that they're unsafe to drive on the street, that they're a hazard to other cars, that we're a bunch of lawless hillbillies, that we use parts that are unsafe, yada yada yada, and one day, poof, 4x4's will be outlawed.

They most probably have the attitude that it IS legal, that is until you get caught.

Originally posted by Scott@Rockstomper



How many hotrods do you see on the street today?

I see hotrods every day. I live in Sunny California.

How many built 4x4's do you see on the street today?

I also see Built Trail Rigs every day on the streets.

Ever wonder why there's not a lot of hotrods being driven on the street? Put it all together, and in 10 years, 4x4's will be where hotrods are today--in the garage, in the trailer, taken out for shows and that's it.

:I just don't see this happening.

Keep promoting the idea that 4x4's aren't street legal, that they're unsafe to drive on the street, that they're a hazard to other cars, that we're a bunch of lawless hillbillies, that we use parts that are unsafe, yada yada yada, and one day, poof, 4x4's will be outlawed.

With all the booty fab and the assholes I see on the trail out their I see this point

But I also see that this did not happen with Harley Davidsons
Hey look now doctors and lawyers play dress up and drive these bikes on the weekends. Remember back when Hells Angels, outlaws and maniacs and what not was the general association when you thought about Harleys




I see more irrespossible Ricers every day then I see Hot rods On Good guys car show weekend:rolleyes

Originally posted by TEX


BUT PEOPLE BELIEVE WHAT THEY READ IN THE MAGAZINE, and if the magazine says that those rigs aren't street legal, then they must not be... and everything else that looks like those rigs, must also not be street legal. Anybody see where I'm going with this?

Exactly. Honestly, I liked the article. I definitely thought it was nice that we got the specs on all the rigs. And I thought coverage of the trip was pretty decent. Their continuous reference to driving illegal rigs was just kinda irritating. We all knew that there were rigs there that were "borderline" at best. Should have been pretty obvious. They didn't need to come right out & say it, repeatedly - especially since they didn't even allow trailers.

TEX

EXACTLY again. I'm 100% with Tex on this, it's simply the fact that they are saying they are street legal, OR that they are admitting to driving something they say is not legal on the street, which burns me personally. The article itself was kick ass, I'd like to do that someday - but I wouldn't say one word one way or the other about whether I was legal or not. Why not allow the trailers, that way you sidestep the whole issue (if you are going to print an article in a magazine about it)?

I guess I better drive exactly 55mph on the freeways now.... I wouldn't want to give four wheelers a bad name. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Lance
I guess I better drive exactly 55mph on the freeways now.... I wouldn't want to give four wheelers a bad name. :rolleyes:

Drive whatever speed you want. Just don't write an article about it & print 250,000 copies :flipoff2:


TEX

Or you can just drive through every ones backyards and such on the way to the trail that way you aren't spotted on the roads

That way they can't say your a non street legal rig owning Road Hazard:rolleyes:

Originally posted by TEX


Drive whatever speed you want. Just don't write an article about it & print 250,000 copies :flipoff2:


TEX

This thread just brought the article to millions of people world wide:rolleyes: So whats the difference.

Well Back to plotting my course through backyards of people accross california so I can stealthily travel to the Rubicon unseen on the roads on my next trail run

:flipoff2:

Sounds like a bunch of jealous wheelers to me....they didnt say anything in there rag that hasnt been bragged about on this very board.......... last I heard POR has like a gabillion readers. :flipoff2:

THought it was a good read, heck i even ordered the video

Hey mark can I make acopy of the video :D

Who fawkin cares.....they aren't trying to break the law, they are recognizing the fact that stupid laws aren't enforced. BECAUSE THEY (laws) ARE STUPID!!! Drinking and driving is one thing, but to get a ticket for a non-DOT approved 5 point racing harness (Simpson) is another. Came awn, when are you guys going to stop with the bullshit. And for the record, you don't even need a windshield in your rig, you DO however, have to wear goggles while driving.

Interesting thread. I will toss my two cents in as well.

To those that say it's legal in their home state so they can't be ticketed else where are, as far as Wisconsin is concerned, way wrong. Of the rigs in that mag a good many of them would be ticketed and impounded where they were stopped. Will EVERY Wis officer do this?.....no...but laws are in effect and if they choose to enforce them (and they do often) you just became the proud owner of a impounded truck. BTDT
Heater, Defrost, parking brake, liscence plate light, TWO plates, retractable seat belts, Windshield OR eye protection, Spedometer/odometer with working dash lights, the list is endless...yes we have alot of illegal rigs in Wis. and more and more are being removed from the roads every day... and truthfully I feel although a cool deal and a neat article, they could have been a little less obvious about the questionable road legality of these rigs. Our laws are bad enough, and the more rigs they impound and ticket, the more amo they have for making the laws even more difficult to adhere to.

Off Road rigs in general are comming under fire in MANY states, I see nothing wrong with users driving rigs they build on the roads.... but read that article as a Sierra Club devotee and tell em what you see as usuable amunition, vividly in print, displayed in one of the nations most respected off road mags no less. Regardless if we like it or not, these mags are a spokesplace for our hobby.

That all said, it sure looks like it was fun. :)

NoRM
who wonders if anyone else noticed the winch cables on that SD had no weights or blankets, hoods were down...people within cable range...

Originally posted by IronBenderII
has license plates = street LEGAL. Drove 1200 miles on the highway = STREETABLE. That's all there is to it. Perhaps if some of them were to go in for inspection there would be some issues, but that's not the point. I have a license plate and that's all that counts.

-Jack

WHAT?

Dude that's scary. You may be a good fabricator, but not everyone is. The inspections are there to foil them......Sorry, I am not in favor of Nazi Inspectors, just don't brag about the shiat in a print magazine, and then complain when people generalize and bad mouth all four wheelers.....

j

Well, I like to play with multiple different hobbies in life. Many involve laws, and the laws can limit the fun and attempt to keep people safe. We all make our own judgment on whether we will abide by it or not. As far as I am concerned, people should do what they want, "if your gonna play, be prepared to pay".

I am unhappy that the mag touted the fact that they were breaking the law. As far as I am concerned that is down right irresponsible on their part. The big difference between this board speaking of the topic vrs the mag is that this is a public forum as opposed to magazine publishers making money selling their opinions, articles, and practice to the public ("hey, we broke the law and got away with it"). We are having a conversation, they are setting an example, maybe not for me or you but how many readers do they have (I bet more than this board).

I deal with this stuff on my motorcycle all the time. Many people that I ride with don't have plates, blinkers, mirrors, etc.. But I have never read a Motorcycle mag that would represent this behavior, we just don't need to be put under a magnifying glass.

just my humble opinion.

Originally posted by redrangie


WHAT?

Dude that's scary. You may be a good fabricator, but not everyone is. The inspections are there to foil them......Sorry, I am not in favor of Nazi Inspectors, just don't brag about the shiat in a print magazine, and then complain when people generalize and bad mouth all four wheelers.....

j

Thes folks featured in the magazine also were not back yard Booty fab masters.

They build rigs all the time they probably know something about making a rig handle fairly well on the road.

Originally posted by Monkeyboy


Thes folks featured in the magazine also were not back yard Booty fab masters.

They build rigs all the time they probably know something about making a rig handle fairly well on the road.


Checkout Pewe's "Ultimate" M38A1 and the flat fender he had before that. Also checkout some other the other 4WOR editors'/writers' vehicles and see if you still make the same statement.

and quote from Go2Guy in this thread
"I do agree on one thing- I've seen a rag buildup rig on the trail in CO once, mag made it look sweet- way hack in real life- can you say deathride?"

I say we all boycott 4WOR and all start reading 4WHEELER, where the men are men and the chrome is shinny. ha!

-Scott

i thought the article was cool, a little irresponsible but nothing everyone of us hasn't done a time or two. i thought the superduty was cool, except for the beadlocks.:rolleyes:

edit: that superduty was accually the only cool part of the article:flipoff2:

I wish I new about all of this ahead of time, I would have bought stock in Kleenex and other tissue companys.:crybaby2: :crybaby2:

Eric Filar

Just a few questions here:::

To all of the guys on here pissing on and on and well......ON

If you were one of the "LUCKY" readers invited to go along on the Ultimate Adventure, Not Ultimate Tour, and your rig wasn't QUITE street legal, would you turn it down to stay at home with your non-street legal rig? :rolleyes:

If BFG just gave you a set of their Krawler tires that are not DOT approved yet, would you turn them down to keep what you got without taking the opportunity to try out a free set of not yet on the market tires because they were not approved for driving down our friendly highways, or would you keep what you had on there already because they were street legal? :eek: :rolleyes:

Just a couple of questions to ponder.


:flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Oh my christ, you people whine far too much. I'm with Eric, and a few others on this. Who cares really? How many people reading the rag are that ignorant to beleive that what's written in the mag is condoning, or better yet, suggesting that behaviour? Out of say, 250,000 readers, half will probably not like the fact that it was advertised, while the other half will enjoy that it was and probably relate to it. I'd say probably a vast minority of the readers will take what's written in the mag as approved behaviour and meanwhile, not have a rig close enough to a wheeler to pose a threat to the rest of us (and tarnish our image)

Personally, I live in Alberta. I have the highway traffic act in the glove box. I run open headers every where I go (packed with fiber glass to arrest sparks, and SOME noise) 44" boggers that stick out WAY past the stock fender openings, intermittently working turn signals, no rear bumper (wouldn't matter anyways, it'd still be over 4' off the ground) and no liscence plate lights.

Now, I got a ticket from the 5-0 recently sighting section 125, subsection 2 of the HTA stating unnecesary noise is a ticketable offence. What's deemed as not necesary? I was driving through a parking lot at idle speeds, and when the cam rolls around in my motor, it lopes the idle up from 800 rpm to 1100 for a few revolutions. I happened to have the day off from court, so I fought the ticket. My engine functions that way I said, I can't change that unless I rebuild the engine. Ticket was thrown out. I got a ticket for having my tires sticking out too far. The law states that 1/3 portion of the tire be covered. If you're looking down from the top of the truck, there's well over 1/3 covered, so the ticket was thrown out for lack of definition on their part. A cop cited me once for having no muffler and no rear bumper. The book states that a muffler must consist of either chambers, or sound deadening material. The headers have chambers, obviously and the fiberglass is sound deadening. It also states that a truck isn't required to have a bumper. You don't need tag lights in the day time either....

Obviously, under thorough inspection by the highway patrol, I'm sure it would fail. However, the law's usually open to definition concerning vehicles. So, them saying it's an illegal vehicle is really open to perception and definition. Usually a user familiar with the ins and outs of the particular vehicle that they are in operation of, plus being polite will usually make the cops happy. I'm sure their not out to make your life hard, as opposed to catching real law breakers. Like the folks driving through back yards.

Back to the real issues at hand, such as why do you read that rag if you really don't like anything it has to say? Why do people still piss and moan about how ttc is gay? Why would you talk about something so much if it bothered you so much? Shut up and avoid it, boycott it, don't enter, whatever, just stop whining about what you read in a magazine one day. Until you're editing and printing en-masse the same quaility of rags such as four wheeler and 4 wheel and off-road, you saying to the rest of us what they should do differently, how shitty of a mag, what a bunch of poseurs they feature etc. Your point (whatever it was) really doesn't hold that much water. The bottom line is they've both been printing for 20-odd years, and have been doing a pretty good job of pleasing at least over half of their consumers and staying consistently on top of the "sport" of 4 wheeling.

There's an awful lot of negativity towards most any thing pictured or featured in any rag really, but there's an awful lot of keen interest when one of the vehicles from this board manages to make it into the pages... So, basicly, I guess what I'm trying to say is either boycott it and shut up if you don't like it, or manage your own magazine, become profitable at it and show the rest of them (and us) how it's done. All the while leaving yourself open for magnification under the public's eye.

I just got the rag today and read the article..

Irresponsible.... Period...

I'm backing Tex and the ones that are displeased...

Call me a whiner if you will, but this article is bullshit... clean and simple...

You cannot hold your group to a standard then violate that standard in an authoritarian position. Sure everyone gets out on the fringe every now and then, but to so outwardly put the defiance into print does not help our cause...

EITHER YOUR ABOUT SHIT OR YOUR NOT...

I don't approve, no matter how fun it WAS TO READ :flipoff2:

For the time being, I'm gonna give Pewe' and his bitches the bene of the doubt and assume they were just being sensational in their writings... lol:flipoff2: :D

It's prolly all in fun, but ---- FOR REAL ---- the event was bogus and poserous... I've lost all respect for most all that participated under the auspices they were advertising...

:D

Originally posted by P|n-BaLL
Interesting thread. I will toss my two cents in as well.

To those that say it's legal in their home state so they can't be ticketed else where are, as far as Wisconsin is concerned, way wrong. Of the rigs in that mag a good many of them would be ticketed and impounded where they were stopped. Will EVERY Wis officer do this?.....no...but laws are in effect and if they choose to enforce them (and they do often) you just became the proud owner of a impounded truck. BTDT
Heater, Defrost, parking brake, liscence plate light, TWO plates, retractable seat belts, Windshield OR eye protection, Spedometer/odometer with working dash lights, the list is endless...yes we have alot of illegal rigs in Wis. and more and more are being removed from the roads every day... and truthfully I feel although a cool deal and a neat article, they could have been a little less obvious about the questionable road legality of these rigs. Our laws are bad enough, and the more rigs they impound and ticket, the more amo they have for making the laws even more difficult to adhere to.

Off Road rigs in general are comming under fire in MANY states, I see nothing wrong with users driving rigs they build on the roads.... but read that article as a Sierra Club devotee and tell em what you see as usuable amunition, vividly in print, displayed in one of the nations most respected off road mags no less. Regardless if we like it or not, these mags are a spokesplace for our hobby.

That all said, it sure looks like it was fun. :)

NoRM
who wonders if anyone else noticed the winch cables on that SD had no weights or blankets, hoods were down...people within cable range...

While that may be true, it is totally ILLEGAL and would be not only thrown out in court, but the officer doing such would be liable. States have LEGAL reciprical agreements and as such recognize that a vehicle that is legally registered in another state and deemed street legal in that state is street legal in their state. Otherwise interstate travel would be impossiable. Alabama, Tennessee and many states do not require a front license plate. Would I get a ticket for not having one in Wisconson? Hell no, it is recognized that it isn't required. If I drive in Wisconson with an Alabama driver's license would I be cited for no license? Again NO. The states have recipricol agreements that allow my license to be recognized as valid in the state. It is a legally binding agreement between the state and not observing it would be ILLEGAL.

Robert

I already gave my .02 earlier but here is another .01...


I read the article again and read this thread again and I think the fact still standas that legal or illegal, recipricoal agreements or not - the full story was printed and made avaliable to the public with an attidue that just smacks the law in the face. AND you know damn well that every Serria Club, Anti-4x4, eco-freak organization in America will get a copy of this issue and just add it to there fire. And if you don't think those eco people read those magazine think again - they have subscriptions and people that just troll newspapers, magazins, the internet looking for there next cause.

I could really care less what other 4x4 people think about the article - it is the voting public that already has it in for 4x4's that I am worried about.

Originally posted by psf4x4


would i drive it in downtown atlanta....no.



Been there done that... and had a blast doing it..... ticket.... nope... hehehehehe scare a few folks..... ohhh hell yea

Quote: MR4WD


"Personally, I live in Alberta. I have the highway traffic act in the glove box. I run open headers every where I go (packed with fiber glass to arrest sparks, and SOME noise) 44" boggers that stick out WAY past the stock fender openings, intermittently working turn signals, no rear bumper (wouldn't matter anyways, it'd still be over 4' off the ground) and no liscence plate lights. "

Well I'll be diped in shit and sent down to the pickle farm if all us crazy muthas didn't drive a freking whaked out crazy monster that didn't piss everyone off. Look at all those law biding citizens over there with there license plates and such.

HA HA HA and your proud!

:flipoff2:

I am just giving shit, but come on. Your take pride in it. I do cuz I want to wheel. Do those intermittent signals help the traction up there in Canada?

"I'm sure their not out to make your life hard, as opposed to catching real law breakers. Like the folks driving through back yards. " P/N Ball


The UHP will pull you over for anything that "catches there eye". They don't really give a fawk if your tire sticks out too much or if your lisence plate light does'nt work- they make a killing on seized DRUGS. If you are a dick to them you probably will get a ticket, but they are looking for drug runners and to their credit they make some BIG busts all the time.

It's just a mag article and I for one appreciate that they were honest and did not try to pretend that these rigs were street legal like many have done in the past. I would prefer to see more real DD's, but that does'nt seem to be what the readers (and the web wheeler's here) want to see. I don't see thier 'flaunting it' as giving any ammunition to Sierra fag types. They will collect data from real incidents involving such vehicles and use that. We all have to patrol our own and make sure that we point out unsafe booty fab on the rigs we see and run with. The rigs in the articles all looked to be very well engineered and built and if not than that should be our issue with the magazine.
:flipoff2:


BTW- I have figured out the secret recipe to get your rig featured in OFF-ROAD. Just go buy a new Super duty, put in a chrome grill and some of those fancy diff covers ,get a big ass set of tires and some high dollar rims and wallah - your in the mag!!!!!!

Originally posted by ChadLloyd
yeah I thought the same thing, but from a slightly different perspective - they should either make it for street legal rigs (and drive them to the trails), or for anything goes, and allow trailering. To say things like that 'Scout' is streetable is a joke. At the same

"Street legal" varies from state to state.

I have a Scout II built for racing. Full width, no 'glass, no doors, no interior (toggle switches, tho'!), tilt front clip, air cleaner poking out of the hood, straight pipes (with mufflers slipped on for the street), sponsor stickers all over it..

It has two windshield wiper arms bolted to the cowl, a rear-view and side-view mirror, and brake lights.

Licensed and insurable and street legal in Montana.

It even has the required e-brake/parking brake, which my daily driver *doesn't* have... (PO cut the rear brake cable)

My daily driver is illegal, but my comp rig is legit.

I have to wear goggles and use hand signals.. but at least I don't have to hand-signal "STOP/SLOW-DOWN" thanks to the brake lights.

Heck, I even have headlights.

It's all good.

Last time I drove it down the Interstate, it went about 50mph comfortably with the 4.88s and 235/75s on it (street tires, y'know)

Personally i like the fact that this rag always talks about environmentalists and how brutal they are. Then the editorials rant about how we can help by carrying out our garbage. They want to make sure we do not give the environazis any ammo to come after us. Good points.
The illegal/legal "bragging"? Who cares?:flipoff2:

The power washing crud/oil/grease article? We should care.:mad:

The ad on page 108 with the YJ driving IN the river/creek and no entrance/exit visible? That is frickin ridiculous and contradictory to the many editorials written re Tread Lightly in that mag. Get on them for that crap! Illegal truck whining????:shaking: Not a big deal.
Over and Out.
My sig can sum up that ad:eek:

:zzz: I was one of the participants in Peterson's Ultimate Adventure and I can tell by the responses to the 4WOF article here on this list that all you bastard are jealous you weren't invited! The CJ-7 I drove on the Adventure is my daily driver. I must admit I've recieved a ticket from the friendly CHP for the tires peeking out beyond my flairs, but satisfied thier complaint with a removeable mud flap. I had the TIME OF MY LIFE on the Ultimate Adventure and just pray I'm invited back again next year. We were met by several troopers and hi-way patrol on our adventure and found them to be very friendly and keen about our vehicles. :flipoff2:

Jealous.. Nah...

Either your about SHIT OR YOUR NOT...

Obviously your about posing... (JT IS CALLING SOMEONE A POSEUR!) :flipoff2:

You got your little pickipoo in a rag.. congrats dumbass :flipoff2: You should be proud of yourself.... You entered the express lane with more than 12 items...

They set the rules, then they said fuck the rules.. they printed 'in your face' suckmeass to the law...

Can you pose for the camera Madona?

There are those that seek attention at the expense of the rest of us, and there are those that are rightious in so much as they are about shit and they don't push it into print...

Get over your big bad self and accept the fact that there are those of us that wouldnt partake in this poseurous un-adventure...

SHEESH http://www.jeepthing.com/flipout.gif