I have 1979 F150 housing with everything on it. I found a 1977 F250 housing. I was wondering if I can move the knuckles, spindles, disc brackets, rotors and discs from the 79 f150 onto the 77 F250 housing? I did a search and came up with some other questions that I had. So what do you think about the swap. I think that everything will fit.
NateH

Why? If the F250 axle (Dana 44) is complete run that. If the 79 F150 housing is complete run that, it should be reverse cut as well. I don't know if the ball joints between these two are the same or not. I would think that would be what you need to look at to see if they'll swap. I'd run the 79 Dana 44 because it'd reverse cut. Right me if I'm wrong in any of this.

Plus moving the knuckle is some major work, so why not rebuild the F150 axle and make it burly. People usually run 38's on these w/o much problem unless they have a lead foot like me-that's why I run 35s-36s.

I would guess that he is going to use coils, so 250 is out. You don't have to swap the knuckles, but if you do they will be flat tops.

If this is to get an 8 lug front so you can got to a Dana 60 rear, have disc brakes and use the same wheel pattern at both ends it's a good idea.

Originally posted by NateH
I have 1979 F150 housing with everything on it. I found a 1977 F250 housing. I was wondering if I can move the knuckles, spindles, disc brackets, rotors and discs from the 79 f150 onto the 77 F250 housing? I did a search and came up with some other questions that I had. So what do you think about the swap. I think that everything will fit.
NateH Good thinking. I have never done this but you should be able to swap the 79 knuckle out on to the 77 F250 housing, if they are both ball joints. (If the F250 has ball joints it's a Reverse Rotation. Also the 78-79 1/2 ton housing is junk!)
Get me the BOM from both axles and I'll give you the outer shaft lengths. Best plan is to run the F250 inner axle shaft and the F150 outer shaft with the new spicer joint.

Sorry I miss spoke before. I am not swapping the knuckles. I plan on swapping the splindles. ball joints, backing plate, rotors and calipers. I plan on running coils in the front. I have a 1994 Jeep Grand Cherokee. I will make the brackets and wled them onto the housing. The reason that I want to run the f250 axle housing is because it is stronger, has leaf plates on it, and I can weld on it. The 79 f150 has the cast ears on it so I can not run the custom suspesion that I want. I looked in to see if the 77 and 79 uses the same ball joints and they do. So I guess that I will try to swap everything from the knuckles out onto the f250. From what I have found they both use the same calipers, bearings, seals, ball joint. So I hope everything goes good. They should both be RC 44 so my air locker and gears will work. I will just have to reset the backlash, and redo my steering.
NateH

Originally posted by Mr.N
If the F250 has ball joints it's a Reverse Rotation.

Nope, F-250 D-44 1976 thru 1977 1/2 is Ball jointed and LOW pinion with disc breaks :flipoff2:


Eric

Also the 78-79 1/2 ton housing is junk!)

How do you figure that a reverse rotation 44 housing is junk??

I agree that if you are running larger than 38's in rocks you have good chances of bending the tubes and tweaking the knuckles.

Is that what you mean or do you think they are junk in general?

I think he is using the word "junk" as a complement. :flipoff2:

My junk '79 housing has held up to over 5 years of sand, mud and rocks with 36s and 38s. The tubes may be thinner but the cast piece takes up a lot of the span on the long side which might even make it harder to bend. Don't know, don't care cause it was cheap and it works.

Originally posted by Alpo23


Nope, F-250 D-44 1976 thru 1977 1/2 is Ball jointed and LOW pinion with disc breaks :flipoff2:


Eric
Nope? I've a pic of a 76 with closed knuckles! I've yet to see a 76-77.5 with ball joints. How do you figure?

Originally posted by Stonyford


How do you figure that a reverse rotation 44 housing is junk??F250 has 1/2" wall tubes, the 1979 Dana 44 might have a 1/4" center tube :eek: To me a 1/4" tube is junk.

Originally posted by Mr.N

Nope? I've a pic of a 76 with closed knuckles! I've yet to see a 76-77.5 with ball joints. How do you figure?


Every '76 I've seen has disc brakes, No closed knuckle ever had disc brakes. And they were open knuckles....Found two with the big hub option when I was hunting for an axle to put in my '73 to get discs. one was a '76 with C-6 and NP-203 divroced, the other was a NP-435 with NP-205 divorced, Both had low pinion open knuckles. As for the Ball joints....hmmmmm I'll have to get back to you on that but I'm 99% sure they were ball joint and not king-pin like the earlier D-44 on the F-100.......


:p


Eric


P.s. If you have access to that " 76 " axle get the BOM off of it :D

Originally posted by Alpo23



Every '76 I've seen has disc brakes, No closed knuckle ever had disc brakes. And they were open knuckles....Found two with the big hub option when I was hunting for an axle to put in my '73 to get discs. one was a '76 with C-6 and NP-203 divroced, the other was a NP-435 with NP-205 divorced, Both had low pinion open knuckles. As for the Ball joints....hmmmmm I'll have to get back to you on that but I'm 99% sure they were ball joint and not king-pin like the earlier D-44 on the F-100.......

P.s. If you have access to that " 76 " axle get the BOM off of it :D I'll get the BOM next time I vist that yard. Now I need to find a pic of a 76-77.5 F250. Just when I was close to done :(

edit-> With what Ford did in different plants, it's possiable is an early 77, with a 76 axle. Or someone swapped the axle for higher gears.

Originally posted by NateH
I am not swapping the knuckles. I plan on swapping the splindles. ball joints, backing plate, rotors and calipers.

So I guess that I will try to swap everything from the knuckles out onto the f250. From what I have found they both use the same calipers, bearings, seals, ball joint.
NateH Which is it?

okay here is the scoop on
housings

this is for 1973-1979 ford 4x4 trucks
from the factory

all 3/4 ton 4x4s before 1976 had closed joint knuckles with drum brakes dana 44 and 60

(found in crew cabs)

1976-1977 1/2 had low pinion open joint housings with disc brakes dana 44 and 60 (found in

crew cabs)

1977 1/2 - 79 had high pinion open joint housings with disc brakes dana 44 and 60 (known as

the snowfighter package)

1/2 ton 74 and earlier had drum brakes

1967-1979 had high pinion housings

knuckle for disc brakes interchange between the 1/2 ton and 3/4 ton dana 44s
how ever the 1/2 brake parts will not fit because the knuckle needs a notch for the caliper
the 3/4 parts will fit the 1/2 ton knuckles

all disc brake 3/4 4x4 uses dual piston calipers dana 44 and 60
1/2 tons use single piston calipers

check out my site www.ncspecialties.com autobody link

Originally posted by infoford
okay here is the scoop on
housings

this is for 1973-1979 ford 4x4 trucks
from the factory

all 3/4 ton 4x4s before 1976 had closed joint knuckles with drum brakes dana 44 and 60

(found in crew cabs)

1976-1977 1/2 had low pinion open joint housings with disc brakes dana 44 and 60 (found in

crew cabs)

1977 1/2 - 79 had high pinion open joint housings with disc brakes dana 44 and 60 (known as

the snowfighter package)

1/2 ton 74 and earlier had drum brakes

1967-1979 had high pinion housings

knuckle for disc brakes interchange between the 1/2 ton and 3/4 ton dana 44s
how ever the 1/2 brake parts will not fit because the knuckle needs a notch for the caliper
the 3/4 parts will fit the 1/2 ton knuckles

all disc brake 3/4 4x4 uses dual piston calipers dana 44 and 60
1/2 tons use single piston calipers

check out my site www.ncspecialties.com autobody link Where did you get your info?
1st, are you sure on the disk brakes? As far as I can tell 1973 was the first year for disk brakes on a 4x2, but 1976 was the first years for the 4x4 disk brakes. I've yet to find 73-75 disk brakes on a 4x4, not saying it was an option, I just haven't seen any proof.

Ah....the never ending Saga of what came when:shaking:


First off: Disc brakes were an option as early as 1968 for the 4x2 F-250 and F-350. This is the only models shown for discs in my Factory Shop manual for 1968.

Second: 1976 IS the first year Discs were availible on a 4x4, 1/2 ton or any other tonnage. infact it was standard equipment since it was a federal requirement.

For more info go here: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=37686&highlight=ford+tech


Eric

And welcome newbie :flipoff2:

The thin axle tube on the 78/79 axle is not a problem if you think about it. That thin section of tube is what a few inches long. And how much weight is taken by the tube, not alot since the coil and radius arm are past it. Now granted if you have the choice on what one to use, I would also go with the weld on c mounts. If I had the 78/9 one I would be in no hurry to get rid of it.

if you read my whole post I was only talking about the FOUR WHEEL DRIVE models yes the 2wheel drive trucks came with disc as a an option as early as 68 typically on the camper specials
the half ton FOUR WHEEL DRIVE seen disc brakes in 1975 the 3/4
FOUR WHEEL DRIVE seen disc brakes in 1976

Originally posted by infoford
if you read my whole post I was only talking about the FOUR WHEEL DRIVE models yes the 2wheel drive trucks came with disc as a an option as early as 68 typically on the camper specials
the half ton FOUR WHEEL DRIVE seen disc brakes in 1975 the 3/4
FOUR WHEEL DRIVE seen disc brakes in 1976
Where are you finding info on 1975 as the first year? I haven't seen that in print, at least not from Dana or Ford. (Then again..)

Originally posted by Alpo23
Ah....the never ending Saga of what came when:shaking:
You bet, we've a newbie
Welcome infoford :flipoff2:

Oyeah, It Reverse Rotation, not high pinion. :rolleyes:

I use to work in a 4x4 wrecking yard for almost ten years before I started my own business the hollander exchange books plus the trucks I junked out gave extensive knowledge on what came on trucks whether it was ford chevy or dodge
ford had disc on their 1/2 ton 4x4s in 75 but if everyone want to believe that they came out in 76 so be it I not going to argue of one year ;)

Originally posted by emsoffroad
The thin axle tube on the 78/79 axle is not a problem if you think about it. That thin section of tube is what a few inches long. And how much weight is taken by the tube, not alot since the coil and radius arm are past it. Now granted if you have the choice on what one to use, I would also go with the weld on c mounts. If I had the 78/9 one I would be in no hurry to get rid of it. Few inches? It's the center tube, from pumpkin to cast C-mount, more like a couple feet.
Anyways, if the front axle is left under a Ford with coils it works well. I almost bought a 79 Bronco last month with 33", I wouldn't have changed the axle becasue of this week point. However for my trail runer with 38" I wouldn't run that axle.

Originally posted by Mr.N
You bet, we've a newbie
Welcome infoford :flipoff2:

Oyeah, It Reverse Rotation, not high pinion. :rolleyes:

Infoford: don't pay Mr N. no-nevermind, he's a stickler for this 'Reverse Rotation' over 'HP' thing...... :flipoff2:



'You say '75 for F-100 discs uh????Hmmmm, I'll have to look into this somemore, I'm not above admiting if I'm wrong after cross-checking info.



Eric

okay if you really want to get technical :D
your reverse rotation is actually called a reverse cut ring and pinion

hence the standard cut ring and pinion on a low pinion diff is the
same as a rear dana 44 or a rear dana 60 pending on what front end you have in ford (chevy 12 bolt front end "not dana" use the same gear as the chevy 12 bolt rear

the design of the ring and pinion is stronger going in one direction
then the other the power side is stronger then the coast side
the coast side is only about 80% the strength so when it is moved to the front housing and when you are under power you are running on the coast side of the gears ford had dana design a high pinion housing with reverse cut gears you gain 20% in strength in that alone because you are running on the power side by design :D if was a reverse rotation then you would have major bind up

and thanks for the welcome

Ahhhhhhhhhh a debate I love em.

#1 The 78-79 Bronco/F-150 housings have "no" tube under that cast part. It is pressed in and welded...but the "cast" IS THE TUBE. That said I have broke a few 78-79 Bronco housings and never did break one at THAT spot.

#2 Ford most certainly did build a low pinion (standard cut) Dana 44 in the 3/4 tons. These were open knuckle and most certainly common. The last year for the closed knuckle was 1975 in the 3/4 ton.

#3 I have parted out 1975 1/2 tons with disk brakes..in fact this is a GREAT housing to swipe the "wedges" off of for a Dana 60-radius arm swap, as they are welded on and easily removed. I believe ALL these trucks were LATE 1975 models, but none the less titled as a 1975.

#4 Infoford knows his Ford tech......he just has no taste in snowmobiles. :D

NoRM

Originally posted by infoford
okay if you really want to get technical :D
your reverse rotation is actually called a reverse cut ring and pinion
Infoford your knowledge for the Dana 44 is somewhat impressive. However where did you get the term reverse cut? This seems to be more of a here say term just like high pinion. Yes the gears do have a reverse cut and yes the pinion is higher than a standard but the term Dana used when they invented the axle and released it during the year ?? and month ??, was Reverse Spiral. It’s a reverse spiral gear set. I’ve yet to find the term reverse cut on Dana’s site, maybe you can? http://www2.dana.com/expert/

Originally posted by Alpo23
Infoford: don't pay Mr N. no-nevermind, he's a stickler for this 'Reverse Rotation' over 'HP' thing...... You should have paid attention to Eric :goofball:

well I found some really good info on that link thanks
however none of the names reverse cut,rotation or spiral appeared I did find that what ford calls TTB is called IFS by dana
and what dana themselves call ring & pinion they also call drive pinion and gear sets so it looks like to me they or anybody else has no standard name for any of these parts so what ever term your friendly local parts guy uses is the term you may want to use to avoid confusion.
This only proves even though we live in America doesn't mean we all speak the same language :D

And Norm nice to hear from you it has been awhile since I even heard your name and what do you mean no taste in snowmobiles :flipoff2: Cat is where it is at you flatlander :flipoff2: of course this board is for 4x4 not sleds LOL email me some time you prick

I got bored and decided to see what I could find on this reverse cut, rotation, spiral delima here are a few links I found

http://www.4x4wire.com/jeep/tech/axle/yjrcdana44/

here is a link that really explains it well :flipoff2:

http://www.imajeep.com/axles/rev_cut_or%20fwd_cut.htm

here is a link that I found for reverse spiral :p

http://holly.colostate.edu/~courtsmi/landform.html

here is a link on reverse rotation

http://www.ford-trucks.com/dcforum/DCForumID27/824.html

You go girl!!

This shit is way over my head. I like to go in the mud and rocks and stuff isn't that what we should talk about?

Infoford thanks for the info ... on fords

I wonder if any of this helped out the guy who posted the first question

Originally posted by infoford
I got bored and decided to see what I could find on this reverse cut, rotation, spiral dilemma here are a few links I found

http://www.4x4wire.com/jeep/tech/axle/yjrcdana44/

here is a link that really explains it well :flipoff2: I’ve had a chance to met Ron, sure has a nice Jeep. Good info, but kinda a general on the axle.

Originally posted by infoford
http://www.imajeep.com/axles/rev_cut_or%20fwd_cut.htm

here is a link that I found for reverse spiral :p I’ve never seen it explained like that :eek:

Originally posted by infoford
http://holly.colostate.edu/~courtsmi/landform.html

here is a link on reverse rotation
Marty has a good page, does a fair job. However he doesn’t list and sources.


Originally posted by infoford
http://www.ford-trucks.com/dcforum/DCForumID27/824.html Quote from the page: “Ford used reverse cut Dana front axles, when they flipped them upside down, they put a reverse cut ring & pinion in them, so they weren't reverse rotation.” That is so wrong! They did not flip a standard housing to make the reverse housing!
InfoFord, I’m disappointed in you for posting that last, just when I thought your were better than the average newbie. :(

Originally posted by Stonyford
I wonder if any of this helped out the guy who posted the first question

Originally posted by Mr.N

Originally posted by NateH
I am not swapping the knuckles. I plan on swapping the splindles. ball joints, backing plate, rotors and calipers.

So I guess that I will try to swap everything from the knuckles out onto the f250. From what I have found they both use the same calipers, bearings, seals, ball joint.
NateH Which is it?
I'm still waiting on NateH to answer this question.
Also need the BOM for both axles to tell him how long the outer axle shaft is on both. That's to see if they'll swap.

I posted the last link for the reverse rotation part not the flipped axle part (plus when I read it I missed the flipped housing or I would have said to ignore that part :emb4: oops I guess my scan reading bit me LOL) also it was the only thing I found that had reverse rotation on axles most everything else was on marine reverse rotation engines, props and motors

Originally posted by infoford
I posted the last link for the reverse rotation part not the flipped axle part (plus when I read it I missed the flipped housing or I would have said to ignore that part :emb4: oops I guess my scan reading bit me LOL) also it was the only thing I found that had reverse rotation on axles most everything else was on marine reverse rotation engines, props and motors
No problem If you find anything else please share.
I;ve called Dana and Ford, didn't get much info from Ford. :(

Originally posted by infoford
And Norm nice to hear from you it has been awhile since I even heard your name and what do you mean no taste in snowmobiles :flipoff2: Cat is where it is at you flatlander :flipoff2: of course this board is for 4x4 not sleds LOL email me some time you prick

Well friend good seeing you too.....and yes I will reserve the sled debate for a more sled related forum ;-P

BTW folks...per my 1978 Ford sales flyer for a Bronco it's "Reverse cut" just a FYI type of thing.

NoRM
who dunn do 44's no more

Originally posted by P|n-BaLL
BTW folks...per my 1978 Ford sales flyer for a Bronco it's "Reverse cut" just a FYI type of thing.

NoRM
Have copy of that scanned in? Can you post it or e-mail me a it?
I've heard of this before but have yet to have written proof. Thanks