So, I have seen in documentaries, read in book and been told by people, that when the world ends precious metals will again become the system of wealth. I for the life of me cannot understand this concept. What do I want with Gold? I can't eat it, I can't use it to get me something to eat. I can't protect myself with it, I can't protect my family. It doesn't give me shelter or purify water. Even in the documentary I saw on the history channel last week used gold as an example of currency. I understand that eventually a "government" is going to reestablish and they will most likely base their currency on something like Gold. But, I have to ask myself, am I going to be around to see it? Am I going to care? People seem so dug into this concept, so I am attempting to understand it.

Gold is far to expensive. The gold push now is just for company's to make money. If you were to want some good money metal in a pinch go for silver.

1 they want you to buy into gold and "invest"

2 when shit hits the fan and you are all wtf and cant get rid of that shit fast enough they will be more than happy to take it back, at a substantail loss to you of coarse.

3 people are dumb and want it because its shiny, which is what makes it "valuable" in the first place. which means if you have it you can jam them with it and get the stuff you actually need.

Gold has intrinsic value, dont think of it as an "investment" in the terms of your going to buy it, own it for a period and sell it later for a profit. It's a way to insulate/protect the value of your monetary worth.

ie the dollar collapses, we have 400-600% inflation. You now earn $3 a day and a loaf of bread costs $15.

Meanwhile the gold you bought at $350 is now worth $1500.

lets put it this way, in 1776 a $20 gold coin coin would buy you a nice suit.
That same coin today would still buy you a nice suit. meanwhile that $20 cash is now worth what $2.50?

Just look to the economic collapse of argentina in 2001 to see that gold investment works.

Weapons, water, food, booze. In that order.

Am I going to care? People seem so dug into this concept, so I am attempting to understand it.

swim against the current

Gold has intrinsic value, dont think of it as an "investment" ...

What he said.

In a total collapse, we will be on a barter system.
That is how trades will be, however when you are traveling a long distance to buy something, or you don't need another cow/hog/sheep to feed, or grain crop, etc. You need some form of tangible wealth that is universally accepted to trade. It is mighty inconvient to haul your cows, sheep, hogs, dry goods, and other tangibles to pay someone.

Also as you accumulate wealth, you must have some way to turn it into something non-perishable, and doesn't require maintenance.

Therefore gold fits that description better than anything on the planet.
Since the beginning of history it has had a value to humans, and always will.
That is why having gold in hand is a smart move. Buying gold through a gold fund is not the same. If you cannot put your hands on the gold, you don't own it. It is just another mutual fund, one that is indexed to the price of gold.

My plans are to make my own liquid gold.
Pussy, alcohol, and tobacco will always be in great demand.
I don't have a pussy, and I don't have enough prime growing land for tobacco.
I do have enough land to grow grain, and barter grains.

The key will be setting up shop quickly, and also quickly disposing of any competition to keep your market share.

gold and silver will be worthless one day.




this is what you should get. everyday stuff that works whatout the grid.

food
ammo
guns
pots and pans
clothes and footwear
fuel oils
tools
nice to haves.





point is, man is greedy, usery is as old as man himself, one day a loaf of bread will cost 5oz of gold. the gold standard will not save this country.

I bet you would be better off with an equilivant investment in pepper vs gold for that situation.

People are going to get sick of eating flavorless neighbors at some point and will want to spice it up.

2 when shit hits the fan and you are all wtf and cant get rid of that shit fast enough they will be more than happy to take it back, at a substantail loss to you of coarse.


edzachary

gold and silver will be worthless one day.


You are narrow minded. They will always be worth something to someone.



this is what you should get. everyday stuff that works whatout the grid.

food
ammo
guns
pots and pans
clothes and footwear
fuel oils
tools
nice to haves.


You list is short sighted, and will not sustain you for long after a collapse.
Particularly fuel oils, that is like chocolate from the easter bunny.
Sustaining is a lifestyle, not what you possess.

....Particularly fuel oils, that is like chocolate from the easter bunny.
Sustaining is a lifestyle, not what you possess.

Everyone is not Rambo. A supply of fuel oils to help you cook and survive while you adapt and transition to not having electricity would be like the greatest thing in the world, or at least way better than chocolate from the Easter bunny

I saw this episode (worth mentioning History channel is owned by NBC) did you also notice all the gangs of guys driving around w/ black evil rifles? Then this idiot finds a revolver in yukon w/ a dead guy and the only comment he can make while holding the gun is this guy must have thought he was a cowboy! Oh, and the best part was when they showed getting water out of a radiator to drink! But hey they boiled it first! That show for the most part was useless to anyone w/ a brain.

Gold is just a part of keeping a wealth vehicle rolling from generation to generation.
What I believe are the essentials to long term prosperity:
1. Land- choose location wisely
2. Family- keep them close and pool resources.
3. Eliminate all debt. Direct resoures to necessities of life, assuming no outside sources of food, water or electricity.
4. Invest. Gold, guns, you cannot ever have too much of either.
5. Education. The next generation must appreciate and value their heritage. All generations depend equally upon one another. When there is a death, they become part of the land and even in death contribute to the heritage.

It will be gone like chocolate from the easter bunny.
You are wasting your time with fossil fuels, go straight to wood burning. Something you can get yourself.

I get the unfortunate experience of living without power for at least a weekend per year, sometimes a whole week, due to storms.
My 5kw generator costs me about 10 gallons per day. Granted, that is run 24-7 if we are home (turn it off while at work, or away). I get a taste of suck about once a year, it really opens your eyes about how much work it is to keep a house going without power.

The generator isn't necessary, because I have a wood burning stove for heat. However, my wife would be moving out to stay with family after about 48 hours. So I run the generator to keep the fridge and freezer going, and keep her from going stir crazy.
I use a propane lantern and cook stove. I go through one, 1# bottle of propane per day.

In the long haul, I would have to get a wood cook stove - there is no other way around it. Even if I had a good stock pile, I wouldn't have enough to make it last for months even with intermittent use. Might as well face the fact that anything that runs on fossil fuel will be useless after a while and get over it (actually you should trade it and fuel for stuff you need to go the long haul).

I would probably abandon my house, and go live with a friend. It would give us more working bodies per household and more defenders. It will be wise to pool resources with people you trust. If I stayed in my house, I would insulate one room (with fireplace) and hole up there. In the summer, I could use the rest of the house. Though, I would still sleep downstairs where it is cooler.

It would be preferable to build and outside kitchen/cooker for mild weather. It doesn't take much to build one with masonry. That way it doesn't heat up the house in the warm months. In the winter months, you need a wood burning cook stove.

This is a nice unit at a good price.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Wood-Coal-Burning-Cook-Stove-MBS-857-Brown_W0QQitemZ220530684331QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_D efaultDomain_0?hash=item3358a731ab

Zuk
X2!
Save the fuel for the chain saw.

Diesel Smoke Im with you I dont understand it either for terms of SHTF investment.

Diesel Smoke Im with you I dont understand it either for terms of SHTF investment.

I think the problem here is the definition of SHTF. This can be many different things, economic collapse, natural disaster, attacks of many sorts, full on collapse of society, etc.

Most of the people buying gold (funds) are hoping to bypass the economic collapse (their SHTF scenario).

Those buying gold bars/coins and guns are looking at the other scenarios, and are still covered for the economic collapse as gold will still be of value.

On the plus side, regardless of what the collapse is, someone somewhere will want your gold. They may be shortsighted and attempt to acquire "wealth" for when the system is setup again, if they live that long.

I think the problem here is the definition of SHTF. This can be many different things, economic collapse, natural disaster, attacks of many sorts, full on collapse of society, etc.

Most of the people buying gold (funds) are hoping to bypass the economic collapse (their SHTF scenario).

Those buying gold bars/coins and guns are looking at the other scenarios, and are still covered for the economic collapse as gold will still be of value.

On the plus side, regardless of what the collapse is, someone somewhere will want your gold. They may be shortsighted and attempt to acquire "wealth" for when the system is setup again, if they live that long.

The terms I am referring too and the situation referred to that caused me the confusion is a total collapse, government, society and economy. This is the situation I don't understand it in at all. When you look back at history, eventually every society put value into something useful for decorative purposes, but I don't see that happening for quite along time. Why will gold hold value? What purpose does it serve? Why do you want it? Are you making jewelery or looking for a conductive electrical source?

I agree fossil fuels will worth their weight in gold, even living off the land things like chains saws, tractors, and cook stoves need fuel. Wood is a great fuel if you have enough near you place, but if it has to be transported your screwed.
Things like canning supplies and stored food that will keep without refrigeration (smoking, pickling, drying) will be the currency.

I think we end up in barter society after SHTF, trading foods like vegetables for meat and grains, Fire wood for flour, etc. I doubt our currency will revert to gold due to the lack of availability. Guns and ammo will always be worth something.

Gold will always have value if you run out of lead.

This seems to be a glass half empty forum anymore. Everyone is saying when SHTF instead of if.

Preparing is one thing, but it's starting to seem as if everyone wants it to happen.

This seems to be a glass half empty forum anymore. Everyone is saying when SHTF instead of if.

Preparing is one thing, but it's starting to seem as if everyone wants it to happen.

"When" not "if" is the question. Maybe not in my lifetime, but at some point it's bound to happen. Society's don't last forever and catastrophes happen as history has shown us. I hope it never happens, but odd's are in favor of happening again at some point.

Gold will always have value if you run out of lead.

This is the best argument I've read so far!

Gold has intrinsic value


Bullshit.


Gold was valuable to people who thought shiny objects were were trading away thousands of acres of land :shaking:


If it really hits the fan, I have exactly ZERO use for your gold.


I can't eat it, drink it, make medicine from it, or use it to make decent tools/implements.


This comes up all the time, and this same nonsense comes up every time about it having "value", yet nobody can give a single good reason WHY it has value, TODAY, instead of 800 years ago :shaking:

People are so far out there sometimes. In an apocalyptic situation gold is worthless except to melt it down and make bullets. You can't eat it, you can't drink it, it doesn't keep your warm, it doesn't keep you dry. Food, Water, Shelter and Protection will be priorities, gold will become an old currency no longer used until an economy or currency is re-established after things start to stabilize and commerce starts to spring up again.

Gold is for when people get past the survival phase, and into the rebuilding phase.

Someone will come out on top, and begin gathering wealth. For those people, gold is a display of wealth and status, and will be desirable.

Gold is for when people get past the survival phase, and into the rebuilding phase.

Ok - you claim it... WHY?

Look at why gold *was* considered valuable, and tell me if that still applies. Here's a hint: it doesn't.

It's not in short supply, so there is no value in scarcity.
It has no intrinsic value - so there is no "standard" in terms of "1 oz. of gold equals one bushel of corn", etc.

Bullshit.


Gold was valuable to people who thought shiny objects were were trading away thousands of acres of land :shaking:


If it really hits the fan, I have exactly ZERO use for your gold.


I can't eat it, drink it, make medicine from it, or use it to make decent tools/implements.


This comes up all the time, and this same nonsense comes up every time about it having "value", yet nobody can give a single good reason WHY it has value, TODAY, instead of 800 years ago :shaking:

Id agree but Id also opine the golds worth is more or less a function of magnitude and duration of the apocalyptic event, i.e. if we went into a serious depression then gold might make sense as a replacement for $, yen, brit lbs, euros or what have you, if we had an event that destroyed all semblance of current civilization then goods like iron or salt have more relevance as trade materials than a simple monetary replacement like gold or silver.

D.

lets put it this way, in 1776 a $20 gold coin coin would buy you a nice suit.That same coin today would still buy you a nice suit. meanwhile that $20 cash is now worth what $2.50?

The US Mint didn't produce $20 gold pieces in 1776. :laughing:

Weapons, water, food, booze. In that order.

I would add medicine.

Otherwise fully agree

In reading the other day I ran across an article that said that IF we were to go back on the gold standard, gold would cost between 6000$ and 7000$ an ounce.
I think our currency is just a tad inflated.:flipoff2:

Ok - you claim it... WHY?

Look at why gold *was* considered valuable, and tell me if that still applies. Here's a hint: it doesn't.


It doesn't tarnish. It is highly corrosion and chemical resistant. It is very malleable and is easily formed into complex shapes. It can be cast. It is non-toxic and hypo-allergenic. It is an excellent conductor of electricity. It looks cool and Chicks dig it.

I agree it probably isn't worth hoarding, thinking it will make you rich after a collapse, but it will be useful and in demand.

PLEASE PLEASE let it do that :laughing:


i bought 10G of gold coins in oct 2008.
MS65 / MS63's gaudens 20 dollar coins.......
right now they are worth about 15-16K
show me how to let 10K grow that much in that short of time, with no (real) risk.




yes im not going to be able to go to the pawn shop and get what they are worth, for that i buy cheap gold chains/rings/shiney shit and keep them in a plastic baggy.

when i need something, a nice looking gold ring or shiney shit may get what i want.
items of interest and small peices of worth will work to bargan and barter.

lord knows the american dollar wont be worth anything except to light a fire with.

I dont need any gold. I'll spend my money on bullets.... then I'll just take the gold from the liberals that thought it was a "Good Idea" and THEN hoard it :D

fawk it... i need to stock pile more food. God damn i need to finish my basement so i have some storage!!!

PLEASE PLEASE let it do that :laughing:
yes im not going to be able to go to the pawn shop and get what they are worth, for that i buy cheap gold chains/rings/shiney shit and keep them in a plastic baggy.

when i need something, a nice looking gold ring or shiney shit may get what i want.
items of interest and small peices of worth will work to bargan and barter.

l

You nailed it. I recently read "surviving the coming economic collapse". Not a hypothetical but a much more likely scenario than a total global f'g meltdown.
Author is living thru the monetary collapse of argentina in 2001. A complete breakdown of services 1 million people without water, 800,000 w/o sewer and electricity.

There money lost it's value, stores wouldnt accept it. Bank accounts were nationalized, even safe deposit boxes. 400% inflation, joblesness, homelesness, lawlesness. Gangs running the blackmarket selling food.

If you owned gold you could exchange it at the bank but using it anywhere else would get you killed and you would only get junk gold exchange for barter. Bartering was done w/ crappy gold jewery.


it really does come down to your idea of SHTF. If your thinking zombie apocolypse or mad max, yeah gold won't be worth much. but cannibals will still be picking out the gold teeth from your skull :P

Reality is people will do their best to lead "normal" lives and that includes some kind of monetary system.

I highly reccomend examining the situation in Argentina for clues as to how you can prepare for a currency crisis.

Dude wears a bulletproof vest and carries a glock but still goes to work everyday. He makes his own candles w/ 4 wicks so he can heat food.
http://ferfal.blogspot.com/2008/10/thoughts-on-urban-survival-2005.html

No one mentioned Livestock.
Slight mention was made of tools.

Short term:

Food/Water
Weapons (for protective/defensive purposes)
Tools
Fuels (strictly for luxory ie lanterns, & to help set up long term).

Long term:
Land
Livestock-assist in farming/minor food (milk, eggs, etc), transportation
Tools-Farming
Weapons-for hunting
Small solar station would be cool (charge batteries/a few lights/small items).
Fuels-for things like lanterns/cooking

The US Mint didn't produce $20 gold pieces in 1776. :laughing:

I was trying to make a simple model to explain that gold doesnt change value, it's consistent. It's the dollar that goes down relative to gold. :flipoff2:
And yes they did, I know becuz I was there in my time machine http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/ele/1553505810.html

After the initial chaos and ensuing die-off people will come down from the mountains and return to the marketplace to trade furs and pelts for corn, red wheat and will need a monetary system, a Dr., vet or blacksmith can only use so much venison jerky and ammo lol
history shows that straight barter systems fail.

The thing is that gold is accepted around the world as currency. It always has, and always will.
I have never seen any use other than jewelry and decoration.

However, paper currency is just as worthless if no one will take it.
Gold will always be used like currency.

BTW, on DRM's "not rare" comment.
I watched a show recently about gold. They had some little quip of info that said "All the pure gold in the world right now (not still buried) would fit inside the base of the statue of liberty."

That was surprising to me. Obviously there is some margin of error, but the finite amount of gold on this planet isnt near what I thought it would be.

The thing is that gold is accepted around the world as currency. It always has, and always will.

Why? Originally it was a sign of wealth, as it's rarity made people want it. However other cultures world wide didn't use gold, they had no concept of gold, so why aren't people telling me to buy sea shells?

Because sea shells aren't rare. When all the gold in the world can be stacked in the base of the statue of liberty - that tells you how very rare gold is.
Virtually all cultures in history see gold as wealth.
Mayans, Inca, Egyption, Roman, etc.
Yes, there are some bush men out there that don't have a clue - but the number of those are precious few. If you have to deal with them, you can probably trade them trinkets and beads.

I am not a proponent of gold, and I have been openly critical of people saying "buy gold".
Especially when it is at record high prices - that is the time to sell.

Having actual gold in hand is having wealth on hand that is insulated from all govt. currencies. In a total collapse of all world government (ha, ha, :rolleyes:), I am wagering that gold will still have value as currency - because it always has.

I own zero gold, except for my 10k wedding band that cost $69 new. However, I would accept gold on trade, and buy it for bargain prices. Chances of either are slim to none.

It will be gone like chocolate from the easter bunny.
You are wasting your time with fossil fuels, go straight to wood burning. Something you can get yourself.


I see your point, but....wood doesn't last forever, can last long time if you take care to keep it off the ground, keep it covered etc....but, it won't last indefinitely. Folks in suburban areas will have a difficult time stockpiling wood.

Some people's work schedule won't allow them to spend hours chopping and splitting wood

A nice supply of fuel oil would keep for a LONG time and give you some cushion to get used to whatever the situation is.

I see nothing wrong with having a small stock of some sort of fuel oil, or propane, or whatever.

I never ate all my Easter candy at one time anyways

The big thing we need is water. A barefooted millionare says that water will be like gold when I'm his age, and I don't doubt it a bit. If we don't get SHTF, we will get more regulations, and limits on water rights. People who can drill a well by moonlight will be the wealthiest peasants around. Well rigs are about 80k, who wants to pitch in?

Gold is like cash, it is only worth what someone is willing to give you for it, this can be good or bad. Silver has some medicinal value, but more than an oz or so is just for trade. I have some silver, that if/when we have another economic collapse silver will skyrocket, banks wont lend, land will go down, for a year or so, and I may buy land with my silver.

Because sea shells aren't rare. When all the gold in the world can be stacked in the base of the statue of liberty - that tells you how very rare gold is.

Thats funny. The one I heard was your could only build 1/2 the washington monument.

You are narrow minded. They will always be worth something to someone.

Will gold be worth a shit to anyone in Kenna, WV? Or in the area around there? If the SHTF, goodbye to teh interwebz. If halogrinder wants your gold, who would know besides those around him? What about Abdul over in asscrackistan? He wants it, but doesn't know you have it. You aren't going to turn into a band of gypsies and roam the country bartering shit. You will kill for what you need, and take from the land. I don't give a fuck if you've got 100,000 bars of gold in your house. I will shoot you from inside a ghillie suit from 500 yds when you walk to get water. Then I will shoot everyone in the house from the same range, and I will straight up take your shit.

Look to Africa to see what will happen. Those that can kill will rule those that can't. Man will always abide by that simple rule. The guy that can run 5 guys into your house, take your shit then move to the next one will be one that lives. The one that can kill from a distance will live. In an extended SHTF situation, warlord-esque types will rise up and prevail. And they still won't give a fuck about gold. They will just shoot you and take your shit. In a short term SHTF situation like Katrina, no one will give a fuck about gold. They will know the .gov is coming for them, and will once again either steal, loot, or kill for what they need. Gold has a place in history because it was shiny and cavemen were fucking dumb. Retards like shiny things. Raccoons like shiny things. Small children like shiny things. Men like things that go boom, and things that fuck shit up. And pussy. If you can amass things that go boom, blow shit up, or get people off; you will have nothing to fear in the valley of death during SHTF because you will be king fucking dick in that valley.

http://www.whatprice.co.uk/financial/how-much-gold.html

But I agree the tangible items will matter the most.

so my 1000# of lead might be a good investment?

Ok - you claim it... WHY?

Look at why gold *was* considered valuable, and tell me if that still applies. Here's a hint: it doesn't.

It's not in short supply, so there is no value in scarcity.
It has no intrinsic value - so there is no "standard" in terms of "1 oz. of gold equals one bushel of corn", etc.

Replace your gold connections with lead connections on your HDMI cable and see how good your picture looks. Sometimes you don't even think before you speak :flipoff2:

I always thought golds value was in that it was not easily obtained and there was a small amount (relative to other shit) of it. Thats just a stab in the dark though :laughing:

Chris

http://www.whatprice.co.uk/financial/how-much-gold.html

But I agree the tangible items will matter the most.


Very interesting link...

We have very little to zero gold. Lots of jewelry pieces, etc. I do not plan to ever buy into gold. The bartering ways leave gold useless to me. I would rather put my money into the things I know my family will need. Educational materials, tools, ammo, land, and renewable food sources (possibly meds, but they have the worst shelf life of all the above). The educational materials being one of the most important things -- I have never truly lived off the land only and I would be looking for all the resources and knowledge possible to survive in the environment I am left to deal with.

You don't need gold, you don't need guns and ammo, you don't even need food. What you need more than anything is the knowledge to make or get what you do need, and enough nearby, close relationships to multiply your manpower.

Anything you set back beforehand is just gravy.