Looking for a new to me truck and want a 3/4 ton diesel. Which motor do y'all think is a more dependable powerplant?

Essentially I like the looks of the Ford better but have heard rumors about the 6.0 Pstroke. I am willing to change over to the Dodge if the powerplant is that much better.

Thanks in advance.

You have been in a dark hole for a couple years if you are asking this question.

The cummins is a great motor.

6.0 is the reason Ford is making their own diesels now. One of my buddies owns three of them. All three have had there turbos replaced. And had other problems here and there.

Dark hole/never had a diesel = tomato/tomahto

Thanks for the info. I keep hearing bad things about the 6.0 and wanted to ask a non-brand specific group of folks.

Anyone else have anything to say?

Get a 7.3 psd

all for the 7.3 psd
5.9 is a good one, but I'd only get a 24v, and not the truck, just the motor!

Looking for a new to me truck and want a 3/4 ton diesel. Which motor do y'all think is a more dependable powerplant?

Essentially I like the looks of the Ford better but have heard rumors about the 6.0 Pstroke. I am willing to change over to the Dodge if the powerplant is that much better.

Thanks in advance.

I had a 5.9 with 400,000 miles on it before trading for a new 6.7 CTD. I can tell you excactly what I spent on the engine. Other than typical routine maintenance fluid and filters, $100 for a turbo rebuild kit at 297,000 miles and $150.00 for a starter. That is the only parts I ever rebuilt on it and replaced. EVER!

I have a couple die hard Ford friends that purchased fully loaded King Ranch 1 ton diesel Fords. Beautiful trucks. Now after a year of owning thier Fords, they ALL say they should have bought a Cummins.

Also in cold weather, -0* you ought to enjoy watching the Duramax and Powersmoke guys trying to start thier rigs. It is funny to go out when it is -10* and just start up the Cummins. The Powersmokes and Duramax guys are begging thier rigs to start and a lot of the time, if not plugged in, they will not start. :D

Have you ever been to the Moab Easter Jeep Safari? Ask around if you haven't been there. Ask what the tow vehicle that you see there in absolutely overwhelming numbers pulling 2 and 3 rigs on fully loaded gooseneck trailers. CUMMINS!

all for the 7.3 psd
5.9 is a good one, but I'd only get a 24v, and not the truck, just the motor!

So if you do get a cummins engine your gonna get the one with teh most issues?

I had a '99 7.3L that I REALLY liked. Excellent truck. I just bought an '04 Dodge a few months ago. While I miss the F*rd due to familiarity, overall I think I like the Dodge just a little bit more. The F*rd cab is bigger and has more storage, rides rougher and is fairly dependable. The Dodge is MUCH quieter, rides quite nice, is easy to park and seems more powerful overall (couldn't be that it's a newer truck, I'm sure).

I liked the F*rd enough to seriously look at a 6.0L. There are NUMBER of NICE 6.0L trucks around FOR CHEAP. After seriously considering the 6.0L fixes, I bought the Dodge. No real regrets so far.

Thank y'all very much for the opinions, I really do appreciate it. Looks like I am going to shift focus to the Cummins.

I really like the Ford's for their appearance but I don't want to replace a motor just for a trucks looks.

Dodge here we come.

I have 4 6.0L fords in my fleet along side several Duramaxes and a couple of dodges.


Diesels are starting to loose thier luster for fleet use lately for me.
The price premium has gone up substantially since on two of the three manufacturers no longer offer manual transmissions. the cost savings through increased mileage and engine life claims have really been hurt lately by the emissions equiptment and the maitnance issues ... let me say MAJOR maitnance issues that the 6.0L fords have given me has left a very sour taste in my mouth for fords. So to put it simply I will not buy a ford for quite some time. I tend to pickup 1 or two chevys but the cost increase for the allison/diesel plus the bowtie premium tax has made them the most expensive addition in our fleet.

I will probably get a couple of gasoline 6L powered gm trucks this next go around, I am getting about the same tranny life from my allison powered Dmaxs as i am out of my gas powered beater delivery trucks I wish i could still get sticks in them too, my 2 6L 5 speed trucks both have close to 240k and 265k miles respectively and zero issues other than a clutch job, the seats are wiped out and the doors want to fall off. but allas i am stuck with autos so i end up replacing the autos between 130k-180k on all the gms. the steering system wears pretty quick on the dirt roads and construction sites that we deliver to

The Fords you cant get me to buy another ford diesel till they regain my confidence. great truck horrible motor and the 5 speed autos were good to about 100k - 150k +/- when they all puked thier brains out. 2 of them have had thier HG's go out not once but twice, turbo issues havent been too bad 1 truck is 4 years old has 200k on the stock turbo. once truck is 6 years old and has less than 70k miles and 3 turbos and spends more time int he shop than on the road. overall 3 of the 4 of them have spent at least 20 days a year being down some more than that. these trucks were not cheap the least troublesome one is a 6spd the other three were autos (I was a believer in that autos equated to more drivers being able to use my trucks without training and with less maitnance issues, my manual trucks have all been trouble free the autos are maitnance money pits) I had one 6.4L ford had to buy it back but i have heard that wasa fluke, i am not willing to give them another shot right now i need my trucks on the road making deliveries not sitting in shops waiting to diagnose poor running, blown intercooler boots, white smoke or a whole host of codes and check engine light issues. 10-14 MPG on good days out of all 4 trucks. I have one old 7.3L left in my fleet it had 250k miles and it is a 1999 it runs great other than glow plugs and an auto tranny every 80k miles it is the oldest truck still in the fleet and a very reliable one at that.

The dodges were cheap to buy especially with the manual tranny, one needed a clutch and flywheel about 70k miles into it had dual mass flywheel, the other truck an 03 has 230k miles without issue though i suspect it will need injectors and a lift pump soon from the research ive done i know its coming and the rpair bill will likely be close to the dmax injector bills ive had. seats have collapsed no turbo issues, no head gasket issues, lost a pinion seal on the rear end and unit bearings & axle joints seem to go every 60k-80k miles. I find that the slightly upgraded base model with a 6 speed AC and cruise control sporting 3.73 or 3.42 gears with 4wd has been a good combination for me serving me well with few problems and fairly low maitnance costs the mileage has been comparible to the Dmax loaded in some cases a touch 1-2 mpg higher on mileage. AC systems both needed to be charged at 80k miles since then the trucks just seem to run. not as plus as the fords with fit and finish inside and until two years ago i was limited on the 4500 and 5500 series to Ford and GM but i am pretty sure with the success that the local tree company and the two local drilling companies have had with the new 6.7L dodges and 6 speed manuals that it is probably the route i will be going for my next couple of purchases giving my recent run arounds with Ford


I should also mention i now drive and have for 4 years a 2003 dodge with the 305hp 555 ft/lbs motor. i did a hub conversion on it, a clutch, n exhaust brake, a smarty programmer (which i run the early 4.11 program on a low 65 hp setting and nabbed a late model turbo from an 05 and later truck to put on it. it runs fantastic the seats are all broke down but aside from that it has 125k miles without any real issues to speak of. if you get a dodge DO NOT use MOOG ball joints. good luck they all have thier crappy points plusses and minuses. i would love a F350 CC LB 4x4 with a cummins and a 6 speed but its not out there, No one seems to want to make a diesel that gets mileage and offer a manual tranny and Dodge made what works for me it was easy to find and has been trouble free. stick to the common rail 2003 and up dodges if you go that route

So if you do get a cummins engine your gonna get the one with teh most issues?

12v cummins are the worse, plus cummins and powerstroke are the same since ford owns them.

12v cummins are the worse, plus cummins and powerstroke are the same since ford owns them.

Please tell me you're joking? :rolleyes:

12v cummins are the worse, plus cummins and powerstroke are the same since ford owns them.

Nothing in your statement is even remotely true.

12v are great motors if you know how to maintain them. A couple little faults you can fix with simple stuff and they will run for 300K+ with hardly a hick-up.

Ford does not own Cummins. At one time they had a share of the stock (a small share I believe - like less then 20%) But they no longer have the stock or any part of Cummins.


:flipoff2:

DDestruel, thank you very much for putting in the time to write that. Very informative and adds to the thought of staying away from the Ford.

Yozsi, owning a share of a company doesn't mean it is the same motor. I own shares in both pepsico and coca-cola, doesn't mean they are the same soda.

12v cummins are the worse, plus cummins and powerstroke are the same since ford owns them.

The wrong in this brief statement is so large that I'm not sure where to start....I assume you are just joking and stirring the pot?

Ford does not own Cummins. At one time they had a share of the stock (a small share I believe - like less then 20%) But they no longer have the stock or any part of Cummins.
:flipoff2:

Ford had 5% in 1989-1990, I believe. Cummins Corp bought it all back before 1990 ended. Part of the terms of the development and supply contracts with Chrysler at the time, I would suspect.

I have a '02 7.3 6 spd and a buddy of mine has the 01.5 HO cummins 6 spd.

Honestly I'd take the cummins mill in a ford body. His truck is falling apart around the drivetrain.

That said, I've had very little (knock on wood) trouble with the 7.3. The normal high pressure oil pump leaks, and the crank position sensor failure. Other than that I've been very happy.

Please tell me you're joking? :rolleyes:

Take a look at my sig, my 02 is my 550hp daily and my 89 is a 300hp project truck. haha

I say get the Ford with the Cummins.

:flipoff2:

pretty sure I saw a one ton or higher "superduty" on here for sale not too long ago with a Cummins motor in it already. Could have been 450 or 550, but it was a Ford chassis with a Cummins motor for sure..

there are quite a few out there, so finding one for sale should not be that hard.

pretty sure I saw a one ton or higher "superduty" on here for sale not too long ago with a Cummins motor in it already. Could have been 450 or 550, but it was a Ford chassis with a Cummins motor for sure..

there are quite a few out there, so finding one for sale should not be that hard.
you can get a f650 with a cummins but in a real superduty you gotta swap in the 5.9


My opinion on this topic is they both suck. I have a 05' dodge and it is a pretty problematic powerplant for me. The only great thing about the cummins is the aftermarket. Stock truck for stock truck i'd take the ford.

pretty sure I saw a one ton or higher "superduty" on here for sale not too long ago with a Cummins motor in it already. Could have been 450 or 550, but it was a Ford chassis with a Cummins motor for sure..

there are quite a few out there, so finding one for sale should not be that hard.

The only way you are gonna get a Ford w/Cummins from the factory is with a medium duty F-650/750. You can get one with a CAT as well up until late 09.

Wish I could shoe horn a Cummins 4bt in my Jeep JK.

If you are out there looking at Fords.. I think its like 03 thru 06 had some head issues and blow head gaskets... and its a body off frame to fix it. No way I can do that in my garage so it kinda scared me off those years.

Would rather have an 02 7.3

12v cummins are the worse, plus cummins and powerstroke are the same since ford owns them.



Have you always been stupid or is this a recent change?

Please stop posting .

there were '03 7.3s to be had, but they are rare.

Have you always been stupid or is this a recent change?

Please stop posting .

Look at the 5th post above yours, you will note that the cummins typically cannot make more than 200hp only fords can go fast.

I have an 03 F-250, 6.0, auto, I lov ethe truck, it has lost one injector, & had one wireing issue, (trouble shot & repaired by myself)
The 6.0 is like dating a really hot chick, they'll do what ever you like, but your going to have to pay a lot of attention to them,

Now to keep this non bias,

I also have a 79 F-350 with a 98 12V cummins, great engine, very reliable, & easy to work on,
Mine has a #10 fuel plate, 3K gov kit, timing bumped to 16* & a south bend clutch, (obviously backed by a 5 spd)

With out a doubt, the 6.0 will tow circles around my 5.9,
empty both truck will get approx 18 mpg, and as soon as you hook a trailer to either one that number drops to about 13-14,

I am aware that the newer 5.9 is more powerful, just stating the facts about my two rides.

Also in cold weather, -0* you ought to enjoy watching the Duramax and Powersmoke guys trying to start thier rigs. It is funny to go out when it is -10* and just start up the Cummins. The Powersmokes and Duramax guys are begging thier rigs to start and a lot of the time, if not plugged in, they will not start. :D

:clown: CUMMINS!

Really? I have 120,000 miles at over 500 horse in my 03 Duramax. I try and plug it in as much as possible, but so far that hasn't been at all this year. It started fine at -35c. Come to think of it, the only diesels I know of that have a hard time starting when not plugged in while it's cold are 6.9's, 12 valves and 6.0's. And early gm engines of course. I'd say a lot of that comes down to battery problems though.

Either way, you're clearly biased towards cummins. Too bad about the fucking garbage truck it comes with.

Really? I have 120,000 miles at over 500 horse in my 03 Duramax. I try and plug it in as much as possible, but so far that hasn't been at all this year. It started fine at -35c. Come to think of it, the only diesels I know of that have a hard time starting when not plugged in while it's cold are 6.9's, 12 valves and 6.0's. And early gm engines of course. I'd say a lot of that comes down to battery problems though.

Either way, you're clearly biased towards cummins. Too bad about the fucking garbage truck it comes with.


Ive started my Dmax at -26F without being plugged in, it started right up. Ive been camping with a guy that has a 7.3 powerstroke that has never failed to start when it is way below 0 either.
There is tons of retard info in this thread.
The 6.0 Ford has its share of problems, so do the Dodge truck chassis.
Drive both, and see which one you like.

Me Im a fan of the 7.3L its a workhorse and will run right up there with cummins on miles and the bodys of these truck are the best period. (Did I just say that im a dedicated and loyal chevy fan but have lost faith in GM)
The motors have some things that are quirky but those are on the early models but what ones dont. Diesels Ive owned the 97 5.9 12v CTD, 01 5.9 24v CTD, 96/99 7.3 PSD, and 03 6.6L d/max.
I love the power output of the d/max but suffers in mpg and longivity of the others only 250k is what Ive heard from everybody, Seems like you see alot for sale after they hit 100k hmmm
The 97 12v ex cab truck backed with 5spd it was a hoss but after spending a fortune on the chasis in the 2 yrs i owned it I said goodbye so of to the 01 and well it wasnt any better. It was worse than the 97 constant problem with truck was under 60k spent a mint and was driven fairly easy to try and keep it together i gave up on dodge .
So then back to ford I got a 96 E350 w/ 7.3L still got it laid some miles down on it 400k ($600 a year in repairs) til I bought another 7.3 a 99 E350 with 190k on the clock work it like a harlet. Both 7.3l have had the usually psd stuff fuel drain,fuel htr,vac pump,CPS,couple injectors,g/p relay then typical vehicle stuff altenator,starter,batteries. Overall very easy to work on and diagnose.
My 03 c/c 4x4 d/max well it walks the dog and it is the most powerful rides great but it sux tha fuel down 15 unloaded/ 11-12 loaded. Cant do any work on the d/max besides maintence its a joke.
Really looking for a 00-03 4x4 F350 w/ 6spd and 7.3L to make dedicated tow pig, and pawn off the cheb to a speed junky.

looks like a another I6/V8 argument. If you want compact get a V8 thats why they are a V if you want long term reliability and torque, inline. Big trucks all run I6's. There really is no argument over engine design maybe chassis.

looks like a another I6/V8 argument. If you want compact get a V8 thats why they are a V if you want long term reliability and torque, inline. Big trucks all run I6's. There really is no argument over engine design maybe chassis.

X2, well put.

My 2 cents:

I've got a '06 6.0 and I use it everyday for landscape work (lots of trailer pulling) and I've been happy with it. Other than tires and batteries, I have only replaced one $600 part. After 124,000 miles, I don't think that is bad. I keep the maintenance up and haven't added any motor mods.

I test drove the chevy and dodge before buying and like the 'overall truck package' of the ford truck the most. The engine isn't the only part of the truck.

She is a little cranky on cold mornings though.

I own a 2004 6.0 and a 2003 5.9. There is no comparison to the durability and power of the 5.9. There are a few 6.0's that with the right mods can be very good trucks. There are TONS of 5.9's that work day in and day out without a thought of:

leaking HG (head blots?? vs head studs)
sticking turbos
clogged egr's
leaking egr coolers
puking coolant
rear main seal leaks


I would NEVER buy another 6.0l or probably any ford for that matter. About the only thing the fords are good for is looks and to swap a 5.9 into.

looks like a another I6/V8 argument. If you want compact get a V8 thats why they are a V if you want long term reliability and torque, inline. Big trucks all run I6's. There really is no argument over engine design maybe chassis.

Actually, the big trucks run V engines and highway trucks, being constricted for space, run straight engines.

I am by no means a diesel expert, but I had a 2006 F250 with the 6.0 and had a number of little BS issues with it. It was in the shop 7 freaking times to replace a simple EGR valve. The replacement one was bad and the sensor kept telling them it was still the EGR valve but the Mech did not believe it. 7 times... Also, the 4wd selector quit working, it had death wobble from hell, the windows got all scratched up from the weather stipping being warped and rock salt from the roads getting down in there, the seats stained if you looked at them, and all this really pissed me off so i sold it.

I am with you, I like the looks of the Ford better but I bought a '98 dodge 3/4 ton and I love it. 12V, 80k miles, extra cab. It has the mexican block (code 6 on the stamp) and some mods. Pull like a tractor and better then the Ford.

Also, it is my daily driver so the better fuel economy is... well... better! Ford got 13 mpg and the dodge is getting about 16/17. Both had 35's on them.

Although the ford looks better (just my opinion) I would go with the dodge hands down. I paid 12k for mine.

Good luck

looks like a another I6/V8 argument. If you want compact get a V8 thats why they are a V if you want long term reliability and torque, inline. Big trucks all run I6's. There really is no argument over engine design maybe chassis.

Like I said all my problems with the dodge was the chasis. Dodge can not build a chasis period, They suck ass and fall apart. I could fill this post with the stuff I put on these trucks. Along with the dodge engineering on feeding fuel to the cummins, What a joke.

For the OP Dont even go there with the 6.0L its junk auto manufactures have engines time to time that are well simply put Junk (Early GM diesels). To get a good one is far and FEW between. In my book they didnt make a good 6.0L no matter what anybody says seen to many without mods stay in shops for way to long for same problems.As far as head studs or head bolts Studs if you are stuck with these bad eggs.
As far as the other 5.9L great motor just get wallet out for dodge engineering you'll need it, I know I couldnt keep shelling out for Ignorance.

I've had a 95 dodge 12v and currently have a 02 f250 with a 7.3. I love the 02 truck but miss my 95 which had about 2k in aftermarket stuff and was tons more powerful than my Ford. Plus, the sound of the 12v... My milage was a ton better in the dodge but thats a different story.

it seems to me that most of the "horror stories" about the ford mills are associated with trucks that have had power enhancements installed (exhaust, programmer, intake, etc.)

im not saying that unmodified trucks dont have any issues but doesnt it seem this way??

i dont think modifying the 6.0 matters that much as far as problems. i have had 6 different f550 since 2003 great truck fucking junk motor. zero problem with the truck, great truck! alot of times would be at dealership dropping one off and pick up the other one, had to have two just to keep one truck on the road. bought a 08 6.4, loved the truck, interior was great, bodystyle was best looking in my opinion. truck was in the shop 18 times in 12000 miles and was only getting 6.5 miles to the gallon compared to 9 to 10 miles to the gallon on the 6.0, diesel at this time had peaked at 4.79 a gallon i was sick. traded the 08 for a new sterling 5500 bullett with the 6 speed and its has 53000 miles with NO ISSUES what so ever and averaging 10.8 mpg with the 4.40 gears. so in my opinionford makes a great truck but has motor issues which reflect on the perception of quaility. dodge\sterling makes a almost as good of truck but with a superior motor which makes the truck seem a lot more dependable

Cummins all the way. If you want a ford over a dodge get something other than the 6.0. I would rather have a ford with my cummins in it, I don't much care for the rest of the truck

there were '03 7.3s to be had, but they are rare.

Correct. Yesterday a customer came in with an 03 F350 with a 7.3. Had 50k miles.

My only bit of advice about the 6.0's is to stay away from the early years (03-05ish) and to obtain an Oasis report before buying. The Oasis report will tell you what has been done to it by a Ford dealer, obviously you don;t want to buy one with a laundry list of previous issues.

All trucks by the big three will have accelerated wear on front end parts due to the heavy powerplants and the autos all seem to last about the same mileage be it a dodge or ford (the Allison autos aren't everything they're cracked up to be either).

(the Allison autos aren't everything they're cracked up to be either).

The allison will live along time with proper maint and no tuner I repeat no tuner, Its built to detect slippage and go into safe mode. A call made by GM to keep the hotrodding down and money flowing into the service depts

I thought this was going to be a joke thread when I saw the title.


to the guy who said only cummins's are good in the cold, you're wrong. Duramax's and cummins's are equally "gifted" in terms of cold weather starting ability. With good batteries, both dmax/ctd will easily start on the first try at -20* without being plugged in.

HEUI-injected (I know that is repetitive saying the phrase 'HEUI injected') 7.3/6.0 powerstrokes are cranky in the very cold weather. Either plug it in or stay at home all day.

ben

the ISB was swapped into the Superduty. They are not available from the factory that way. (-Ed)

I make my living repairing and modding diesel pickups, so I have seen just about all the problems with every make of truck, so in short, I say get the Cummins. I am not going to say it wont break, as they all do, but they are way easier and cheaper to fix. Since you are looking at just a 6.0 or Cummins ( I assume a newer CR motor) lets do some comparing...

Head Gasket job: On a 6.0 you will need to pull the cab to replace the head gasket, most places charge 2-$3000 in just labor to only pull the cab... The local dealer charged my cousin $8000 to do head gaskets( I am sure prices vary, but you get the idea).

On a Dodge most places will be under $1000 with parts to replace a head gasket, and it is deffinatley something most people can do in there driveway with a buddy. (the head weighs 150lbs)

Injectors: Ford injectors $450x8
Dodge injectors $350x6

Mileage: most 6.0s get 9-13mpg
most cummins get 13-18

Common problems with two are...

6.0s blow head gaskets, egr coolers, VGT turbos, FICMs, HPOPs, and injectors.

Cummins blow injectors, and lift pumps(in the 03/04 motors).... and thats about it.

There will always be someone with other problems, but these are the most I see everyday. The ideal truck to me would be a Ford with CR Cummins, and what you pay for headgaskets on a 6.0, you could pay for a Cummins conversion on the Ford.

I make my living repairing and modding diesel pickups, so I have seen just about all the problems with every make of truck, so in short, I say get the Cummins. I am not going to say it wont break, as they all do, but they are way easier and cheaper to fix. Since you are looking at just a 6.0 or Cummins ( I assume a newer CR motor) lets do some comparing...

Head Gasket job: On a 6.0 you will need to pull the cab to replace the head gasket, most places charge 2-$3000 in just labor to only pull the cab... The local dealer charged my cousin $8000 to do head gaskets( I am sure prices vary, but you get the idea).

On a Dodge most places will be under $1000 with parts to replace a head gasket, and it is deffinatley something most people can do in there driveway with a buddy. (the head weighs 150lbs)

Injectors: Ford injectors $450x8
Dodge injectors $350x6

Mileage: most 6.0s get 9-13mpg
most cummins get 13-18

Common problems with two are...

6.0s blow head gaskets, egr coolers, VGT turbos, FICMs, HPOPs, and injectors.

Cummins blow injectors, and lift pumps(in the 03/04 motors).... and thats about it.

There will always be someone with other problems, but these are the most I see everyday. The ideal truck to me would be a Ford with CR Cummins, and what you pay for headgaskets on a 6.0, you could pay for a Cummins conversion on the Ford.

Nice post Brodie. Very informative, and true!

Scott

I make my living repairing and modding diesel pickups, so I have seen just about all the problems with every make of truck, so in short, I say get the Cummins. I am not going to say it wont break, as they all do, but they are way easier and cheaper to fix. Since you are looking at just a 6.0 or Cummins ( I assume a newer CR motor) lets do some comparing...

Head Gasket job: On a 6.0 you will need to pull the cab to replace the head gasket, most places charge 2-$3000 in just labor to only pull the cab... The local dealer charged my cousin $8000 to do head gaskets( I am sure prices vary, but you get the idea).

On a Dodge most places will be under $1000 with parts to replace a head gasket, and it is deffinatley something most people can do in there driveway with a buddy. (the head weighs 150lbs)

Injectors: Ford injectors $450x8
Dodge injectors $350x6

Mileage: most 6.0s get 9-13mpg
most cummins get 13-18

Common problems with two are...

6.0s blow head gaskets, egr coolers, VGT turbos, FICMs, HPOPs, and injectors.

Cummins blow injectors, and lift pumps(in the 03/04 motors).... and thats about it.

There will always be someone with other problems, but these are the most I see everyday. The ideal truck to me would be a Ford with CR Cummins, and what you pay for headgaskets on a 6.0, you could pay for a Cummins conversion on the Ford.

Good info, except for the fact that pulling the cab is only a 4-5 hr job, but it is definately possible to do heads without it.

Also, alot of Cummins burn up the injection pump when the lift pump goes.

HEUI-injected (I know that is repetitive saying the phrase 'HEUI injected') 7.3/6.0 powerstrokes are cranky in the very cold weather. Either plug it in or stay at home all day.

ben

I never plug in my 99 7.3 and it fires right up in any weather, I cycle the wait to start two times if it below zero. I seriously think people get all there info on the internet now and really don't know what there talking about sometimes.






Another point about about the injectors in both that i've had real world experience with is: if the 03-07 5.9 injector goes out and you don't notice it and you continue to drive it for a while it can take the whole engine out. My ' 05' CTD is on engine #2, good thing I had a extended warrenty on one of these million mile engines when i bought it with 90,ooo:D

I make my living repairing and modding diesel pickups, so I have seen just about all the problems with every make of truck, so in short, I say get the Cummins. I am not going to say it wont break, as they all do, but they are way easier and cheaper to fix. Since you are looking at just a 6.0 or Cummins ( I assume a newer CR motor) lets do some comparing...

Head Gasket job: On a 6.0 you will need to pull the cab to replace the head gasket, most places charge 2-$3000 in just labor to only pull the cab... The local dealer charged my cousin $8000 to do head gaskets( I am sure prices vary, but you get the idea).

On a Dodge most places will be under $1000 with parts to replace a head gasket, and it is deffinatley something most people can do in there driveway with a buddy. (the head weighs 150lbs)

Injectors: Ford injectors $450x8
Dodge injectors $350x6

Mileage: most 6.0s get 9-13mpg
most cummins get 13-18

Common problems with two are...

6.0s blow head gaskets, egr coolers, VGT turbos, FICMs, HPOPs, and injectors.

Cummins blow injectors, and lift pumps(in the 03/04 motors).... and thats about it.

There will always be someone with other problems, but these are the most I see everyday. The ideal truck to me would be a Ford with CR Cummins, and what you pay for headgaskets on a 6.0, you could pay for a Cummins conversion on the Ford

Very good info except cab is like tako said 5hr job to pull cab with air. Most shops here just pull engine they said its about the same, and if cab has seem the salt they pull engine anyway.

But one very crucial thing is the cost you left out of maintaining the dodge chassie.
Can be expensive of the cousre of the truck during the life of the cummins 4-500k v/s Ford chassie in same length of time to me its apples/oranges. I just dont like dodge chassies they dont hold up they eat the same silly stuff up all the time.

But none of us can tell you what to buy. Me I would lean towards the dodge too and trade it off before chassie starts eating you wallet. I base my decision on owning 2 dodges and friends that have the 6.0L.

Dont rule out the 7.3L these trucks can be found with low miles still they are King in my book as they are reliable diesels and have the best chassie out the BIG 3 trucks. Just pack a spare CPS with you at all times....lol

As far as cold weather starting I think that the Cummins intake grid heater is better than the glow plugs used by Ford. HEUI engines have to turn over fast enough before the computer will start injecting fuel. Also the HEUI systems beat the shit out of the oil that is supposed to be lubricating the rest of the engine, not a good design in my opinion.

I never plug in my 99 7.3 and it fires right up in any weather, I cycle the wait to start two times if it below zero. I seriously think people get all there info on the internet now and really don't know what there talking about sometimes

personal experience with friend's trucks and work trucks, 04 6.0, couple 05 6.0's, 01 7.3, and an 03 7.3 (yes, it was a pre-march 03 truck). It took several tries to start all of them in the cold weather, 15* or so...even when they did start it took about 5 minutes to where they would idle "normally".

ben

Now this is why I love PBB. Lots of great info and no real bias as a whole towards one brand or the other.

Seems to me the CTD is the motor of choice over the 6.0PSD.

Thanks to everyone for helping out a newb with what was a tough decision.

Good info, except for the fact that pulling the cab is only a 4-5 hr job, but it is definately possible to do heads without it.

Also, alot of Cummins burn up the injection pump when the lift pump goes.

Yes, 4-5 hours off then 4-5 back on, plus the actual work that needs to be done to fix the problem. Either way its 8-10 more hours of labor you dont have to pay for with a Dodge.

The VP44s burn up after the lift pump stops supplying fuel pressure, but I was referring to the CR motors, as I assumed he would be looking at the newer year models if he was looking at a 6.0 as well.

Glad to help guys.:beer:

I am looking at 2003 and up. Can someone clarify VP44s and what a CR motor is? This is my first foray into the Diesel world.

If you are looking at the 03+ then you don't have to worry about the VP44s, they were from 98.5-02. The 03+ will be the CR (common rail)

Thanks

there is good reason ford stopped using the 6.0 Complete junk. Spent more time in the shop than on the road. Save yourself the headache adn get a cummins. Just be ready for the shitty interior.

I have a 6.0 in my 04 Excursion. A permanent addition to my center console is a code reader if that gives you any indications of the troubles it gives me. Never had serious turbo/engine issues yet but if I had a dollar for every check engine light and electrical issue I could finally afford to buy a Cummins. The latest is a P006A MAP/MAF Throttle Position Sensor, don't know how much that will cost once stop working on the Jeep long enough to worry about it.

Cummins hands down

I don't care for the 6.0 one bit too many problems

7.3 is a good motor though

I have a 2006 F-350 6.0. I knew what I was getting into, but the price was right, the OASIS report was clear, the truck was in real good shape, it still had a lot of warantee on it, and it was real hard to find non-Ford one tons around here.
Cold starts were not good with the oil that came from the dealer. When I put in synthetic 5w-40 they got way better. By cold I mean zero F or so.
The word on it that I was seeing was the late model 6.0s are decent as long as you get the most recent flash and keep it stock. I already have a truck I spent too much time fixing, this was to tow that. So far zero 6.0 nightmare problems.

Stay away from the 6.0

Alright, for those who already have the 6.0, would the ARP studs and EGR delete eliminate the major 6.0 worries? Or is the entire motor not worth a darn? When shopping for trucks I saw plenty of 6.0's with over 150K miles on them, most I talked to had little or no problems.

Alright, for those who already have the 6.0, would the ARP studs and EGR delete eliminate the major 6.0 worries? Or is the entire motor not worth a darn? When shopping for trucks I saw plenty of 6.0's with over 150K miles on them, most I talked to had little or no problems.

Its a good start, but you still have FICM and HPOPs to worry about. For the money you would spend to fix most of the big problems, you could just swap a Cummins in and have a really nice truck for a loooooong time.

Alright, for those who already have the 6.0, would the ARP studs and EGR delete eliminate the major 6.0 worries? Or is the entire motor not worth a darn? When shopping for trucks I saw plenty of 6.0's with over 150K miles on them, most I talked to had little or no problems.

Yep, that would pretty much do it. If you had to pick just one for the time being, EGR delete would be your best bet. My 6.0 will run circles around the 01 7.3 that I had. From every aspect I think my 06 is better; rides better, more power, turns a lot tighter (great for backing trailers in tight spots), and has more creature comforts.

If you were to consider a 6.0, I'd be talking to guys that seem to know them in and out.

This fella here seems to know something:

http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=804341&highlight=house+diesel


Lots of guys using them for towrigs around here, seems like the very worst of the years were 04'.

Many of the guys doing the heads studs and EGR delete appear to have great power and much, much less issues.

This is all talk that I have stood in on, but not experienced. My towrig is a gasser.

Best of luck to you.

*8 Grand to do head gaskets? :eek: Good lord, I would have thought it would have been half that. It would kill me to put that much into repairs. Sounds like an extended warranty might be a good investment for the Ford crew.

Alright, for those who already have the 6.0, would the ARP studs and EGR delete eliminate the major 6.0 worries? Or is the entire motor not worth a darn? When shopping for trucks I saw plenty of 6.0's with over 150K miles on them, most I talked to had little or no problems.

Erg Delete, SCT tuning from innovative or elite diesel, Arp or H11 studs and the 6.0 will be runnin low 13's and reliable

Erg Delete, SCT tuning from innovative or elite diesel, Arp or H11 studs and the 6.0 will be runnin low 13's and reliable

13's? Amazing! I'd consider the ARP's more of a reliabilty Mod than a performance Mod. So with the only the addition of a tuner these trucks can run low 13's? Wow! The current diesel rigs never cease to impress me. The ability to tow huge loads, decent MPG's, and the speed that they are able to run is just incredible. Heck, I had a '69 Roadrunner with a 383 with a few bolt ons that would run mid 13's, and that was about half the weight of a full size SD.

We bought tons of Powerstrokes......we have now switched to Cummins for our company. The shop guys constantly were replacing glowplugs and relays.

Cummins .....no question!

And especially vs. that crap 6.0!

Erg Delete, SCT tuning from innovative or elite diesel, Arp or H11 studs and the 6.0 will be runnin low 13's and reliableTwo words that should never go together.

13's? Amazing! I'd consider the ARP's more of a reliabilty Mod than a performance Mod. So with the only the addition of a tuner these trucks can run low 13's? Wow! The current diesel rigs never cease to impress me.

thats really not that impressive....all that shit you have to put into a 6.0 for "only" 13's.

You can run high 12's in a cummins or duramax with HALF of those aforementioned 6.0 mods...hell you can run 11's in a crew cab dmax for like 7-8 grand.

not saying...just saying... :flipoff2:

ben

Erg Delete, SCT tuning from innovative or elite diesel, Arp or H11 studs and the 6.0 will be runnin low 13's and reliable

:laughing::laughing: