It's official
http://www.state.nj.us/dep/newsrel/releases/02_0095.htm

Bottom line: Jersey is about as left on the political scale as you can get. Jersey sucks.

texas has been that way for years on what little public land we have...

Originally posted by Bill Collins
texas has been that way for years on what little public land we have...

I am going to call them tommarow to see what this is all about.

It doesnt look like anything new from the way I read it.

New Jersey has allways been on trail only.

How they can ban me from my trails I dont know, they cant I dont think. They are hunting trails and registered fire road.

They also just happen to be under 3-4 feet of water 3/4 of the year.

Otherwise sand pit and off trail riding have allways been fined and not allowed.

If they actually did close down the trails... the NRA would be up there ass I would think.

But still I am going to call and see what is up.

Doug, see if you can get some info by Saturday for the IITP meeting. If you don't plan on going maybe you could inform me so I can pass the info along.
Thanks.

I don't see the problem here.
I see law enforcement of OHV use where it's not supposed to be, and I see provisions to have specific set aside OHV areas in NJ, which is sorely needed.

Originally posted by rkcrawl
Bottom line: Jersey is about as left on the political scale as you can get. Jersey sucks.

they don't even let you pump your own gas.

they don't even let you pump your own gas.

I'm sorry, have you met the average NJ residents?
half are so wealthy that the mere concept of handling the pump would make them swoon.
the other half.... well, lets just say that I'd bet a dollar they invented saftey scissors in NJ.

Originally posted by Sundowner
...I see provisions to have specific set aside OHV areas in NJ, which is sorely needed.

Are you talking about the quad park off 72? It's not all that great, and I dont think we are even allowed in there. Paragon is $10 less and has much better trails anyway. I've been down to that area many times, Presidential Lakes is cool, but I think I will stay up here if I want to wheel ;)

Any news on the future of the old Jungle Habitat site? Or any other OHV areas for that matter?

Originally posted by Sundowner
I don't see the problem here.
I see law enforcement of OHV use where it's not supposed to be, and I see provisions to have specific set aside OHV areas in NJ, which is sorely needed.


I had two observations. I don't know much about ATVs, and/or the Pines, but this new law sounded like it was only further enforcing existing laws with stiffer penalties.

The other, which I had something of a problem with, sounded like they enacted this law, but then were going to come up with areas for OHVs, but the time delay between this and some sort of state subsidized park or whatever would probably be substantial.

Bryan

Originally posted by Oxjockey



I had two observations. I don't know much about ATVs, and/or the Pines, but this new law sounded like it was only further enforcing existing laws with stiffer penalties.

The other, which I had something of a problem with, sounded like they enacted this law, but then were going to come up with areas for OHVs, but the time delay between this and some sort of state subsidized park or whatever would probably be substantial.

Bryan

More like infinite, IMNSHO.

Originally posted by Sundowner


I'm sorry, have you met the average NJ residents?
half are so wealthy that the mere concept of handling the pump would make them swoon.
the other half.... well, lets just say that I'd bet a dollar they invented saftey scissors in NJ.

i grew up in delaware, but tried to stay away from jersey.

Jersey sucks....that's why I moved.
There are so many little trials back in the Pine Barrens, that I'm sure you can find some that you can access. Just be sure you don't get lost! Most of them are just flat, boring sandy roads, that lead no where. The other stuff is deep loose sand, that can swallow you quick. Not my kind of fun.

I bet there is some good wheeling up near Valley Forge or off RT 15 near Jefferson City. Used to live near there when I was little, and it seems to have VERY good potential from what I remember.

Just my 2 cents.
Dean
Former Yankee

screw all you guys that say jersey sucks! jersey is a great state! there are so many cool places nearby! NYC, philly, the beach, baltimore, upstate new york....all of them within a reasonable drive! i'll agree, the pine barrens suck.....unless you like cleaning the sand outta your T-case all the time!! but it pisses me off when people bash jersey!!! and to anyone that moved away cause they didn't like jersey....you probably did so because you were tired of getting your ass beat everyday and looking like a pussy!!! i mind my own bizz most of the time....i never bother people!!! but all of you that say jersey sucks can eat my shit!!!!

Originally posted by jriggs
screw all you guys that say jersey sucks! jersey is a great state! there are so many cool places nearby! NYC, philly, the beach, baltimore, upstate new york....all of them within a reasonable drive! i'll agree, the pine barrens suck.....unless you like cleaning the sand outta your T-case all the time!! but it pisses me off when people bash jersey!!! and to anyone that moved away cause they didn't like jersey....you probably did so because you were tired of getting your ass beat everyday and looking like a pussy!!! i mind my own bizz most of the time....i never bother people!!! but all of you that say jersey sucks can eat my shit!!!!


Jersey SUCK's :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Not to piss you off more jriggs, but it says you live in:
PA!!!!!!!!!

My parents still live in NJ, and they like it. I hate NJ for other reasons, like my profession. I don't want to have to travel an hour each way in traffic to get to a good job!

Dean

quit busting my balls devin!!!! :D only because you're one of my good friends......you're killing me though.....i'm laughin so hard right now it hurts.......ok......i get it.........maybe i was kinda hard on those guys that don't like jersey. i guess i'm kinda partial to the state........hey.....i do think the taxes suck! later devin....you little shit!!!!:flipoff2: :flipoff2:

yeah grape..i live in bethlehem......it's cheaper there.....wait....that means the rent sucks too in NJ....shit......damnit, that's another thing that sucks about jersey!!! ok ok ok.....maybe some things suck like cost of living and taxes, and traffic, and newark, and garbage, but hey..... sapranos rock.....and they're from jersey!!!! :) later, riggs

Originally posted by jriggs
NYC, philly, the beach, baltimore, upstate new york....

80% of the places you listed are not even in NJ:rolleyes:

Listen, Jersey would be a greater place to live if we could get all the fawkin' JO politicians and crooked Democrats out of the state. Where else can you find a Supremem Court that blatantly breaks the law that we pay them to uphold:confused:

The taxes and insurance are great because they teach you to live with less money:D

Jeresy sucks and so dosn't Bon-Jovi :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

zach.......i said "NEARBY" i can be through the holland tunnel in less than an hour. i never said "in" jersey......but yeah the taxes are high....i say just make more money!!!! taxes are high everywhere. and it's not politicians that are crooked...it's people that are crooked...and they could be garbage men, politicians, cops, priests, locals, and just about everybody else. i have some good friends that are in the local govt here and they're good people...plus some very good friends that are police officers! so try not to sound so stupid!


just to try to get back to the main topic of this whole post.....new jersey needs strick laws for their landuse.....i know it sucks...but it's just the way it is. under those wet and sandy pine barrens that everybody just loves so much lies the largest fresh water aquifer in the world.....so it is a very protected area. 80% of the earth is covered by water and only 2% of that is drinkable fresh water......and the largest fresh water aquifer is in NJ......gives you an idea about the scale of fresh water that's available for everyone....huh? so try to understand why their laws are the way they are.

Originally posted by zachv
Doug, see if you can get some info by Saturday for the IITP meeting. If you don't plan on going maybe you could inform me so I can pass the info along.
Thanks.

The person who wrote the press release was out when I called during the day... and I just missed them leaving the office.

But I left them my cell phone number to contact them and discuss this.

Unfortunately they dont get back untill monday.

Cant make it this saturday... calc and bio exams this week. I really need to study for. But I can probally make the next wheeling date, or meeting. Keep me posted.

I will be sure to let you know what I find.

Originally posted by Grape Ape Ranger
Jersey sucks....that's why I moved.
There are so many little trials back in the Pine Barrens, that I'm sure you can find some that you can access. Just be sure you don't get lost! Most of them are just flat, boring sandy roads, that lead no where. The other stuff is deep loose sand, that can swallow you quick. Not my kind of fun.

I bet there is some good wheeling up near Valley Forge or off RT 15 near Jefferson City. Used to live near there when I was little, and it seems to have VERY good potential from what I remember.


I hope you dont take this the wrong way... but who give a fawk about what you think about the state.

That wasnt what the post was about so unless you have something constructive or informitive to add, instead of assumption of the pinebarrens, keep it to your fawking self. :mad:

welcome to the communist state of fawkin jersey..ahh hell u even have to pay to get back into pensy(as u ppl from jersey say it) they can have wharton or where ever else they are outlawing..all the good wheeling is on private land anyways..where u can run around with the chain saw and go where u please...

Originally posted by OTTERGONEJPN
..all the good wheeling is on private land anyways..where u can run around with the chain saw and go where u please...

Otter, please do tell where "all the good wheeling is on private land" in NJ. Do you speak from knowledge, or ignorance? You know--the place you run around with the chainsaw--where is this place. Being from Harrisburgh, PA I am sure you can tell me.

I'll wait here for the answer.....

suppose i wasnt clear enough the place were said nuts run around woods with chainsaw would be in pa not in the communist state where they make the laws as they go!!

Originally posted by Grape Ape Ranger


I bet there is some good wheeling up near Valley Forge or off RT 15 near Jefferson City. Used to live near there when I was little, and it seems to have VERY good potential from what I remember.



gee thanks for telling the whole fawking world :rolleyes:

:flipoff2:

I may be from the other side of the continent, but ......

The illegal use of ORVs on both public and private lands within the state of New Jersey has grown dramatically over the past five years, causing extensive statewide environmental damage. These negative impacts include pollution, soil erosion, damage and destruction of sensitive natural resources such as forest, streams and wetlands, and the harm and destruction of plant and animal species and their habitats. In many cases, these resources are destroyed and can not be restored.

Remember this every time you see someone bustin through the brush or spinning dust off trail on your public lands. :usa:

jersey still sucks

I think this thread proves why the smart people stay away from NJ.

Originally posted by zachv

Do you speak from knowledge, or ignorance?

One vote for ignorance.

I wont hear back from them untill monday, but this doesnt look all that bad.

I read the asbury park press article... and it says nothing about closing access to already legal trails.

All it seems to be adressing are the assholes that go offtrail and give us a bad name. If that is the case, hell I am behind it 100%.

In the press article the DEP acknowledge that there was a big 4x4 following in the pines and this wasnt against them, and that they know we have an interest in the area.

I still would like to talk to them though.

im glad i dont live up there and have to deal with all the treehugging bullshit....cant even pump your own gas...shit

Originally posted by 79F25039s
im glad i dont live up there and have to deal with all the treehugging bullshit....cant even pump your own gas...shit

:shaking: Who gives a shit what you think. :shaking:

Jersey Rocks..

haha:flipoff2:

once again.......to all those who dislike jersey.......EAT MY SHIT!!! the funny part is that not one person from jersey has yet to strike back with stuff about the state that you live in. you don't hear us saying things like alabama is a state for "inbred sister humping rednecks with no educations" or california is a state for "drugged up blond surfer assholes" or anything like that! that's because all that crap is bullshit!!!! i don't give a shit where you live, as long as you like it that's all that matters. but i bet if you walked into any small town in jerseey and barked off about how much it sucked, you wouldn't walk out without a few broken bones! most people have never been to the good places in Jersey...they've been to newark or someplace like that...i grew up in jersey and still just live accross the river but i'll admit newark sucks!!! i got pulled over once at 2:00AM by a cop in newark. he pulled me over cause i WASN'T driving through the red lights. i was like WHAT??? he told me that when it gets that late, cars full of kids should just roll up to the light, and proceed through as long as nobody is coming......weird!!!! hehe!!!! but that's just one part of jersey.......the rest is great!!!!

Dude Jersey.....................SUCKS!!!


But I do like the Boss! :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

devin........i will bitchslap you later!!!! :) jersey no suck, small prostitute from nevada suck.....suck golfball through garden hose grasshopper says.

to get back to the issue........NJ has some very strick landuse laws........i know it's terrible.....but it just has to be that way. and to all who would like to see areas in NJ grow.....you'd best get used to the idea of landuse laws getting even more strick. so sorry :( later, riggs


devin......YOU SUCK!!! :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :D

devin.......go have a :beer: or seven! weirdo :shaking:

Since January 2002 , DEP conservation officers and park rangers have issued more than 1,400 summonses against individuals participating in illegal ORV activities, resulting in fines of up to $1,000 per violation. A total of 67 vehicles were impounded over the same time period.
As a result of these illegal activities, approximately 343,000 acres of state park, forest and wilderness land have been damaged.

343,000 acres is 535 square miles!!:eek: I wonder what their definition of 'damage' is?:rolleyes: Sure sounds like the greens are running the DEP.

I'm pretty sure it's Kristy Whitman who runs the DEP, or was it the EPA..i think she the EPA. but anyway.....yeah...it's polititians that run those organizations.....i'm sure if somebody put a tire on it they are gonna call it damaged......prob because there was some micro-organism that was harmed....hehe!! gott learn to deal with this kinda stuff......it's gonna get tougher before it lightens up at all. work really hard to take care of your areas and get in touch with groups like the american 4 wheel drive association.....those kinds of groups do everything they can to keep areas open. that includes hiring lawyers to represent you in court! do your part!!!!

by the way.....look at those numbers. 1400 fines issued. hhhmmmmm......i'm sure they were $100 fines...minimum! that would be a nice lump of change at 140,000 bucks!!!and we both know some of those fines were more than 100 bucks a piece!!!

Oct. 07, 2002

Off-roaders could prove a tough catch
Under new rules, those who drive illegally through the state's public land face stiffer penalties - if they can be stopped.
By Mitch Lipka
Inquirer Staff Writer

Lawbreaking off-road-vehicle users, leaving a path of destruction carved by deep-grooved tires, are under siege by the New Jersey agency that protects the state's public land.

But tough talk and a new policy might not be a match for high-speed thrill seekers who lack the inclination to stop for law enforcement or pay penalties that could outstrip $1,000.

Trying to halt the widespread devastation of fragile land, the state Department of Environmental Protection now can begin imposing fines of up to $1,000 plus triple the cost of damage for those caught riding off-road on state property.

"It's affecting natural habitats. They're tearing up wetlands... wildlife management areas, songbird nesting areas," DEP spokeswoman Amy Cradic said. "They're loud. They're noisy. They're dangerous. They're also not registered."

With no license plates to identify vehicle owners, rangers have found the lawbreakers to be elusive prey.

"As soon as they see us, they're gone," said Greg Langan, chief ranger at Wharton State Forest, which covers parts of Burlington, Camden and Atlantic Counties.

With more than 110,000 acres and an average of two rangers on duty at any given time at Wharton, off-road-vehicle riders can do the math. And rangers can't and won't pursue them through the land they're protecting.

Those tearing up the turf, altering streams, and leaving dead plants, reptiles and amphibians in their paths are the least likely to stop when a ranger appears, Langan said.

"The ones that do stop are the unusual ones," he said. "It's usually a dad and his son, a guy and a girl just kind of puttering around."

Rangers at Wharton write about 10 tickets a weekend, with an estimated 500 to 1,000 riders buzzing around the forest on a typical fall weekend.

Periodic crackdowns have resulted in as many as 35 citations per weekend, Langan said. Violators come from throughout the region, including Pennsylvania, as well as from Maryland and Virginia, he said. Statewide, 1,400 summonses have been issued since January.

DEP officials tell tales of packs of riders fleeing rangers or even riding at them at high speed to elude what had been a $71 fine.

The department estimates annual restoration, maintenance and enforcement costs related to off-roading run more than $900,000.

Going off-road on any DEP land is illegal. Langan cautioned that while trails may appear to be cut through Wharton's expansive forest, many are the work of lawbreakers.

The park's topographical map, which details 500 miles of mostly unpaved road too tame for the hard-core off-roader, is the legal guide for drivers.

Carleton Montgomery, executive director of the Pinelands Preservation Alliance, said he liked the DEP's attempt to halt the off-roaders but saw the new policy as only a small step.

The policy applies only to public land under DEP control, he said, leaving other land largely unregulated. Even more problematic, Montgomery said, is the limited enforcement capability of rangers and the attitude of those breaking the law.

"There's something missing from the consciousness of people who do this damage," he said. "They clearly know they're destroying something and don't care.

"How does someone like that and someone like me find common ground there somewhere? I find it incomprehensible that people find pleasure in destroying beautiful places."

A national organization of motorcyclists and off-roaders is scheduled to huddle near Trenton this weekend to try to steer the move against its members.

Tom Lindsay, spokesman for the All-Terrain Vehicle Association and its parent organization, the American Motorcyclist Association, said a small number of troublemakers are creating problems for law-abiding riders.

"It's not unusual for the responsible off-road-vehicle rider to pay the price for a small, irresponsible minority," he said.

The All-Terrain Vehicle Association has not taken a public position on New Jersey's new policy.

"We're still studying the issue on that," Lindsay said. "We support the enforcement of regulations governing off-trail riding."

Few legal areas to ride exist in the area. One is the New Jersey Off-Road Vehicle Park in Woodland, Burlington County, where riders pay a membership fee. As part of the new policy, the DEP is seeking to open two recreational areas for off-roaders by 2005.

Originally posted by Oxjockey
Oct. 07, 2002
"It's affecting natural habitats. They're tearing up wetlands... wildlife management areas, songbird nesting areas," DEP spokeswoman Amy Cradic said. "They're loud. They're noisy. They're dangerous. They're also not registered."
<snip>

"The ones that do stop are the unusual ones," he said. "It's usually a dad and his son, a guy and a girl just kind of puttering around."

Rangers at Wharton write about 10 tickets a weekend, with an estimated 500 to 1,000 riders buzzing around the forest on a typical fall weekend.

Periodic crackdowns have resulted in as many as 35 citations per weekend, Langan said. Violators come from throughout the region, including Pennsylvania, as well as from Maryland and Virginia, he said. Statewide, 1,400 summonses have been issued since January.

<snip>

Going off-road on any DEP land is illegal. Langan cautioned that while trails may appear to be cut through Wharton's expansive forest, many are the work of lawbreakers.

The park's topographical map, which details 500 miles of mostly unpaved road too tame for the hard-core off-roader, is the legal guide for drivers.

<snip>

"It's not unusual for the responsible off-road-vehicle rider to pay the price for a small, irresponsible minority," he said.

<snip>

Few legal areas to ride exist in the area. One is the New Jersey Off-Road Vehicle Park in Woodland, Burlington County, where riders pay a membership fee. As part of the new policy, the DEP is seeking to open two recreational areas for off-roaders by 2005.



I hope you guys understand the enforcement of the usually legal "Dad & Son" types will always be the type to suffer from the fines and enforcement (they do not run)? The numbers of fines, and who actually pays fines, should be reviewed for content and if the enforcement is reaching the target (true renegade off-roaders, not "Dads & Sons" on a Sunday drive)? The Great State of New Jersey owes the public an honest enforcement effort that reaches the renegade perpetrators (not the ignorant folks popped for driving on a unposted road).

1400 fines, from how many visitors (a few thousand or a few million)? How many illegal OHV travel fines compared to: illegal parking, camping, campfires, foot trespass into sensitive areas? Were these fines issued to (non-street legal) OHV's or licensed vehicles using OHV trails?

I find it interesting that there is no mention of the areas claimed to suffer damage as having been posted as sensitive areas. Wetlands and any sensitive areas should be signed to notify the ignorant public (or NJ is not doing a good job of protection, demand they do a good job). Does anyone know if these damaged areas have been posted closed, or are they reporting damage ten feet off (what was) a legal OHV road (or 200 feet off the road)?

Are these damaged areas that "may appear to be cut through Wharton's expansive forest" actually on roads and trails that exist but have not been officially recognized and signed closed?

Has NJ done their job of properly completing a valid road inventory? Has anyone compared the recognized roads and trails the NJ maps with independent Topos?

I recommend you get out maps of these areas (they say they have Topos), and start drawing lines on the roads you wish to remain dual purpose legal (OHV and street legal vehicle access). Design a loop OHV legal road and trail system. The NJ release makes this offer to designate a trail system (sieze the opportunity or lose it). Get your clubs to make proposals for this type of road access prescription to your state government and local federal government elected congressmen.

Remember, all vehicles (and drivers) are legal on OHV roads and trails, and these roads are shared with every other form of recreation (from hikers to equestrians, to snowmobiles and mountain bikers -- gather your friends to designate trails).

Remember, all valid environment and habitat protections are fully enforcable 15-feet on either side of OHV roads and trails (even protections for designated Wilderness and Endangered Species). There is no need to close roads (even OHV roads and trails) to protect the adjacent habitat.

Education and enforcement with a workable connected trail system are the solutions, the solution is not closure.

OHV education begins with the users, and your elected officals. You have lots of work to accomplish with your elected government officials. Don't let the media provide OHV education to your elected officals.

Happy Trails!

I've been all over the pine barrons. First I love their damage estimate. Most of the so called damaged area (and there really is not very many since most of the whoel area is flat sand trails) grow over so quick, even after repeated use, you can't even tell anyone was there. If it was so easy to completely destroy the vegitation in our area just by wheelin (and yes I live in the pines area), I'd be wheelin on my own property just ONCE to kill off these "weeds" that just won't seem to go away even with that "once year weed killer" stuff.

Trails are NOT marked, period, no way no how. Not making excuses, but I honestly do not know what is legal and what is not. When my rig on 44's was still legal (38's now max size and you can't even trailer to the trails and run the bigger tires, which I would be perfectly willing to do), I was sitting in the parking lot next to the Ranger Shack and the prick drives up and picks out my rig (since I had the biggest one). He walks around it 3 times, asks me for my tilt papers (which I provided) and finally after not being able to find anything else wrong with my rig, he says "you only have 2 bolts in your rear lisc plate, better get that fixed". I then asked him for a map (of Wharton St. forest) and he says "we don't give your kind maps, your the guys who do tear up all the trails out there". I proceeded to tell him I don't go out and do damage purposely and that the reason I actually went to the big tires was so I could get through much of the mudholes (which are on the supposedly legal trails) WITHOUT really tearing it up. Finally, he realized what he said and that he said it in front of whole group, so he backpedaled and said the maps were inside the ranger shack. I never bothered getting one that day (I have seen
them since and they suck, really).

As for opening more legal parks. One guy down there owns 100's of acres (he allows use for any OHV's) and has been trying to get it turned into a legal park for 10 years. Applications tied up or denied. Parts of his property border the Garden State Parkway (probably one of most heavily traveled highways in the world), so don't give me any crap about aquifiers, the runoff from that highway alone should kill off everything within 1/2 mile of it (if it really was THAT fragile). I guarantee when they fine him enough and he sells, it will be a housing development (or a mall).

There are also many privately owned quarries down in that area that have been torn up to hell already and would be perfect for offroad parks. One of them is no longer used for mining and has mud, sand trails, hills, etc... I've looked into fed funding (state funding NOT avail) and it says any offroad area opened up would be the responsibility of the club(s) that opened it up for half the costs of fencing and such. Who could afford something like that for new area (correct me if I'm wrong on this, been a while since I looked into it). Not only that, with this sue happy state, I'm not putting my ASS-ets on the line for an offroad park.

Do I have a bad attitude, yes. Did I start out with one 15 years ago, No. I've written and tried to organize for years. This state does not give 2 craps about OHV users period. I've probably been in illegal areas, not really sure. From reports from fellow wheelers, not even the rangers really know (different story on different weekends and their attitude towards us ALWAYS SUCKS!!!). Guess I'll find out when I get my first 1000$ fine. I'd run that ticket up to the state supreme court (mainly for exposure and lack of markings on trails), but they can't even interpret a law as clear as the one on election's, what chance do I have.

Hopefully, the new OHV coalition just formed in NJ will finally get us all together so we can fight on a united front, but I'm not holding my breath.

AMEN to that OX! Over here in CA, they're starting to close off certain areas in our "designated OHV areas" i.e Glamis, i think part of Pismo, and now they trying to close our beloved Azusa Canyon "aka local mudhole paradise" I pray that these greenies don't have the last laugh. :(