I been reading through old posts and I can't find a definitive answer on how wide 1970's Wagoneer front axles are (WMS to WMS). :confused:

I'm trying to find a mate for a 14 bolt C&C full floater (62.75 inches wide). Somebody said I could use wagoneer inners on a cut down D44 for a about 63" WMS axle. :question:

Yes, I know I could have the shafts cut down, but it's nice to have a ready supply of spares.

Any other options? Doesn't really matter if it's driver or passenger drop since I'm going with a klune and NP205. :)

Waggoneer Dana 44 fronts are about 60-61" WMS to WMS, if you swap on Chevy eight lug hubs and brakes you gain an inch per side, bringing you close to the C&C 14 bolt width. You didn't mention what vehicle all of this is going in so I can't really give you many more options.

It depends on the waggy some have 64.25 inch fronts I think these are newer though.this would be fine for you to since its better to have your rear narrower

depends on the waggy as some are NT some WT
try here they can help ya out all you need with that info
IFSJA (www.ifsja.org)

Originally posted by 4Bangler
Waggoneer Dana 44 fronts are about 60-61" WMS to WMS, if you swap on Chevy eight lug hubs and brakes you gain an inch per side, bringing you close to the C&C 14 bolt width. You didn't mention what vehicle all of this is going in so I can't really give you many more options.

Sounds like that's what I need. Not sure what diff the vehicle makes as I can use pass or driver's drop....I'm looking for an axle to compliment the c&c. Anyway it's going on a Scout 2. Thanks for the help.

Originally posted by usmcdoc14
depends on the waggy as some are NT some WT
try here they can help ya out all you need with that info
IFSJA (www.ifsja.org)

I have to go over there to get an answer? :flipoff2: Are you sure wagoneers had both NT and WT or was that the cherokee's? More vague information..... :confused:

If you take a 1/2 ton Chevy 44 (67.5") and cut 4" out of the long side you can use the long side inner shaft from any '80-91 Wagoneer. The difference in the Chevy and Waggie shafts is exactly 4.01". This works perfectly in a CJ since the frame width (center to center) on a CJ is 27.5" and the Chevy width is 31.5". Cutting that 4" not only nets you a non-custom inner shaft but it allows you to center the spring perches directly under the stock spring locations and keep the axle centered. There's no need to outboard the springs. Converting the Chevy to eight lug will add two inches to the overall width. It will end up at 65.5". The extra width vs the front is fine and is how the manufacturers actually make them from the factory. CJ's and full size Jeeps have wider front axles than the rears stock. So does Chevy. I have three passenger side, narrow track full size Jeep 44's and they are all 61.5" from wheel mount to wheel mount. Convert them to eight lug and you're at 63.5", but you have to outboard the springs (if going on a CJ) and convert them to spring over if that's what you're doing.

I believe what you want is a HD 44 8 lug, 69" WMS to WMS, cut 4" off of long side, use long side inner from Jeep Wagoneer 1980-1984, it is 4" shorter than stock. Move the long side perch in 4". Set the caster on thelong side, weld it. Grind caster on short side to match. This works great for a CJ, I am in the process of doing it now.
Oh and I don't usually do this, but SEARCH. There are 149 pages and growing of info on a Dana 44. :flipoff2:

sorry i am to fawking lazy to search for you :flipoff2:
my FSJ is a J20 so my measurements wont help

Originally posted by usmcdoc14
sorry i am to fawking lazy to search for you :flipoff2:
my FSJ is a J20 so my measurements wont help

Sooo what you're saying is you don't know what you're talking about. :flipoff2: Like a said I was reading through old posts and there is conflicting information on wagoneers so I had to ask the question again. But thanks for the effort anyway...really.

Originally posted by Andy West
I believe what you want is a HD 44 8 lug, 69" WMS to WMS, cut 4" off of long side, use long side inner from Jeep Wagoneer 1980-1984, it is 4" shorter than stock.

Actually you can use inner shafts from '80-91. I know the Warn chart only lists '80-84, but 85-91 are exactly the same. I've asked them why their chart only goes to '84 and nobody can answer the question. They probably have no idea that the difference between a Wagonner and Grand Wagoneer (85 and up) is only a name change. The shafts I currently have are out of a '90 and an '88 (spare).

All wagoneers are nt and they measure 60" from WMS to WMS. The WT versions are 65" from WMS to WMS and these front ends are only found on the J-series trucks and WT Cherokees. There was never a WT Wagoneer unless sombody swapped in WT axles.

Pass side drop up to 79, and like 4bangler said 60" to 61" WIDE

OK, the confusion has melted away. The problem in the old posts is people keep saying wagoneers have NT and WT and then there's an argument about the width.

I'll have to go search on the j series trucks...maybe those are already spring over, 8 lug, and the right width. I wouldn't have high pinion but not a biggie.

There's also something about vacuum axles I need to research.

Thanks this is coming together now....

Originally posted by CSP


Actually you can use inner shafts from '80-91. I know the Warn chart only lists '80-84, but 85-91 are exactly the same. I've asked them why their chart only goes to '84 and nobody can answer the question. They probably have no idea that the difference between a Wagonner and Grand Wagoneer (85 and up) is only a name change. The shafts I currently have are out of a '90 and an '88 (spare).

I ran into more vacume disconect shafts in the later models more so than the earlier. But it would not surprise me to find the solid axle all through those years.


OK, the confusion has melted away. The problem in the old posts is people keep saying wagoneers have NT and WT and then there's an argument about the width.
I'll have to go search on the j series trucks...maybe those are already spring over, 8 lug, and the right width. I wouldn't have high pinion but not a biggie.
There's also something about vacuum axles I need to research.
Thanks this is coming together now....


One thing I believe you will find in searching junk yards, is the mdl 17. This is the wide track. If I call on the long side axle, I ask for the right hand , long inner axle, non-vacume disconect, for 1980 and newer drivers side pumpkin. Not model 17. The last year I saw a reference to model 17, was 1983.
Do a search on www.car-part.com
Andy

Wow, okay, now it is getting confusing. Sorry, I forgot to mention the Cherokee Cheif with widetrack, basically a Cherokee with J-10 axles, probably too wide to work well with the C&C 14 bolt. Your Scout II has much wider spring spacing than the Jeep CJ frame, so forget all that cut 4" out of a fullsize axle crap, it won't work for you. All the Jeep Dana 44's will have cast in spring pads in a SUA configuration, if you want High pinion and SOA, plan on a Driver's side pig configuration and look at late seventies Ford F-250's and F-150 extra cab trucks, both had leaf springs and the axles could easily be narrowed to a width acceptable for you application. Look for Chevy eight lug hubs, brakes, and knuckles if you're planning 15" wheels on eight lug, the Ford dual piston caliper on the eight lug axles is far too difficult to use 15" rims on.

I pulled a 74 wagoneer front last Sat. It measures 61" wms to wms. It has flat top knuclkes also.

4Bangler is right and it would be easyer. all FSJ are SUA (not sure on the military but that would start to bring in more confusion and we are done with that:D )
I just outboarded my springs and went full width but for some this is not an option.
not all FSJ 44's have flat top knucks and if they are you have to have both milled/drilled as aposed to ford or chevy where ya just need one done
Good luck on your project

Originally posted by Andy West
One thing I believe you will find in searching junk yards, is the mdl 17. This is the wide track. If I call on the long side axle, I ask for the right hand , long inner axle, non-vacume disconect, for 1980 and newer drivers side pumpkin. Not model 17. The last year I saw a reference to model 17, was 1983.
Do a search on www.car-part.com
Andy

Hell I never get that involved in looking for junkyard parts. I walk through the yards looking for a driver's drop Waggie that isn't vacuum disconnect. Every vacuum disconnect I've seen is '83 or 84. According to the full size Jeep association they were completely phased out by mid-85. That's what I've found in many trips to the junkyard. I go about once or twice a month even if I don't need anything.

4Bangler you have it nailed for what Hammerlock needs. The Chevy recipe won't work for a Scout. I hadn't even noticed what he was building.

I have a '77 Wagoneer in my garage, I measure the front axle to be 60.5 WMS to WMS.

The wide track from a Cherokee Chief (2 doors) would be perfect for the C-C. Look for fender flares, dead give away.

If you use a 1977-79 cherokee it is 63", 2 door cherokees have the wide track. I used one in my CJ and cut 4" off the passenger
sidewhich made my axle 59" then went to 5 lug ford rotors and picked up 1" which made it 60".

Don't the WT cherokee's have 5 lugs? I'm want to stay with the 8 lug on the 14 bolt.

Originally posted by Hammerlock
Don't the WT cherokee's have 5 lugs? I'm want to stay with the 8 lug on the 14 bolt.
No, they're 6 lug like the waggies..

Originally posted by Hammerlock
Don't the WT cherokee's have 5 lugs? I'm want to stay with the 8 lug on the 14 bolt.


I am running a 78' J-20 44, pass drop, no high pinion, 67" wms to wms, 8 lug, yada yada, perfect with a C&C. 2" wider on each side.

Originally posted by Kreep

The wide track from a Cherokee Chief (2 doors) would be perfect for the C-C. Look for fender flares, dead give away.

not if he adds 8 lug outers. the 8 lug outers will widen the wms-wms.


waggys were not offerend in a wide and narrow track package. only the cherokees had that option. the waggys all had narrow track axles (even though they were not called that bacause with only one axle width available they did not make the distinction).

H8Monday runs a waggy front with 8lug outers and a C&C 14bolt in his jeep. do a searchon him and if you have any questions shoot him a PM.