Hey guys, I'm gettin ready to drop a 500cid caddi motor into my 79 CJ-7. The jeep was stock with a 304/400/quad. Anybody ever tried this before or know how well it fits?

well since no one else has replied i will. i don't see any reason to put that much weight in your jeep. especially up high. I haven't know anyone to put a 500 caddy in personally but i know it has been done. One thing i know you will have to mess with is they have a really screwy bellhousing and i think the adapters are pretty expensive from AA. I personally know that my 401 puts out plenty of power and i just rebuilt it to stock specs with an aluminuim intake and headers. oh yeah it is 75lbs lighter as it sits than a 350 and a lot lighter than the turd 6 i pulled out
just my .02

oh yeah don't waste your time with the quadra crap that 500 will blow it for sure hell replace it anyway

This guy is puttin one in a YJ, might check with him to get some details.


http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=85139

The Caddy uses the same bolt pattern as a BOP.. You can change the tailshaft from your current tranny to the caddy tranny and use it..As far as the Qtrac I do not know anything about them but I would run it till it pukes.. Most people talk bad about the 208 but I have been running one behind my Cummins for about a year now with out problems..So as far as the T-case goes do what you want but dont believe everything you hear.. 99% of it is secondhand BS

I thought I had read the the Caddy 500s were no heavier than a SBC?

Yeah, the 500 caddy isn't much heavier than a sbc. It's at 595 lbs complete and stock. As far as I know my tranny will bolt right up with no problems, if not though I've got a 400 tranny from a caddy too, just doesn't have reverse. I've planned on swapping the tail ends of the two trannies so I can run a divorced 205, then eventually go to a doubled 203/205.:D

Originally posted by BigVic
I've planned on swapping the tail ends of the two trannies so I can run a divorced 205, then eventually go to a doubled 203/205.:D

I think the Divorced 205 set up will be too long for your CJ7.. The length of the T-case with its driveshaft from the tranny will be about 30 inches..I am not sure of the length of the 400 but I will guess 30 inches.. So i will guess 24 inches from the center of the front axle to the rear of the engine +30 inches for the tranny length +30 for the T-case and its driveline=84 inches in a 90inch WB vehicle..then you have to remember that the pinion sticks out in front of the axle about 8 inches which leaves a minus 2 inches for the rear D-shaft..My recollection of the wheelbase could be off but you stillrun into rear D-shaft issues even if the WB were 106 inches(same as a blazer/bronco/ramcharger..

Originally posted by BigVic
Hey guys, I'm gettin ready to drop a 500cid caddi motor into my 79 CJ-7. The jeep was stock with a 304/400/quad. Anybody ever tried this before or know how well it fits?

well reading your sig you have already done this in your rockwell equipped rig. you should tell us how to do it.:flipoff2:

Yeah, that what my rigs got, it's just still in the process of being all put together.:D

Oh yeah, I've got 121 inches of wheelbase, so I should be good to run the divorced 205.

I run a well-built and regeared turbo 400 and Quadra-trac system in my Jeep and I considered swappin in a SBC and when you compare the bellhousings the tranny and engine won't bolt up, don't know if this is an issue for you but the 400's that Jeep used were 400 cases with a Ford bellhousing bolt pattern.

Good Luck
John

Originally posted by jds4x43
I run a well-built and regeared turbo 400 and Quadra-trac system in my Jeep and I considered swappin in a SBC and when you compare the bellhousings the tranny and engine won't bolt up, don't know if this is an issue for you but the 400's that Jeep used were 400 cases with a Ford bellhousing bolt pattern.

Good Luck
John
HAHAHHAHAHA holy hell I am literaly laughing out loud about this one! Yeah the GM tranny uses a Ford bolt pattern to bolt to a AMC motor. hahahahah......

i would just get a 4x4 400 and 205 and put the tailshaft and shit into the Caddy tranny.

Originally posted by jds4x43
I run a well-built and regeared turbo 400 and Quadra-trac system in my Jeep and I considered swappin in a SBC and when you compare the bellhousings the tranny and engine won't bolt up, don't know if this is an issue for you but the 400's that Jeep used were 400 cases with a Ford bellhousing bolt pattern.

Good Luck
John

No they aren't a Ford bellhousing pattern. They are an AMC bell pattern just like every other bellhousing that bolts to an AMC engine.:rolleyes:

Swapping in the Chevy would have been easy. You just need a Chevy bell pattern T400 and swap the tailhousing and output shaft from the AMC T400 to it.

Originally posted by BigVic
Yeah, that what my rigs got, it's just still in the process of being all put together.:D

If you've got Rockwells a Qtrac won't work. The Qtrac case has the rear output offset to the passenger side. You would need a different rear axle and I'm sure you don't want to give up the Rockwells just to run Qtrac.

I really never have planned on keeping my qtrac, just doesn't really match the rest of the set-up ya know. It'll be a 500/2wd th400/divorced 205. Like I had said before, strength is my main concern at this point and this seems like the way to go (the 205 is a 1 ton with 1 ton yokes and a 30 spline front). Eventually I'll change stuff up and run a doubled 203/205, but the $$$$ is a small issue. :shaking:

Personaly I wouldnt spend one $ of my hard earned pay, and all of the time and hassle of an engine swap, on anything that didnt come with a simple and reliable factory EFI.
Who cares about the monstrous HP or torque, with the gear selections that are available nowadays through doublers or specialized T cases. The most important thing in a Jeep engine, if you are trying to not be left at the bottom of the steepest or most technical climbs, is to be able to run smoothly and strong at any angle,...No carbuerator can do that! If you dont believe that statement, just go to any Rock Crawling comp, and watch the carb'd rigs gasp and struggle, on the steepest obstcales.

You would have to explain to me the upside to a 500 Caddy engine swap, for any type of serious trail or rock rig,(other than the hype that was recently published in one of the Off Road Rags) .

Seems like a lot of headaches, when so many other well proven engine alternatives are available at great prices.

How excactly are you achieving the 121" wheel base, listed in your sig,....and why!

Not sure that this is your case, but some caddy engines have wet sleeves and are unreliable. Where the steel cyclinder sleeve contacts the cast iron block at the bottom is a real weak point which allows coolant to leak into the bottom end of the engine, particularly if its been bored over. Hate to see someone put so much work into something that might prove to be unreliable. Once again, this might not be your case...

What can I say, I'm a sucker for cubes? I like the ring of 500 cubic inches. I have every intention of fuel injecting it, just not at the moment. True, a fuel injected small block would probably be easier, maybe even cheaper, but dang near everybody has done it. Besides, I'm not building a competition rig(too much money), this ones just for fun, at least for now. I also like the low end torque, light weight, durability, availability, and price of the caddy motors. I guess it just comes down to personal preference.


As for the 121" wheelbase, I'm running rocks so I just scooted them back, and I'm running coils at all four corners. I just set it up from there, not too hard. The Jeep is big and is built to climb big obstacles and walls. Take a peek at the cover of JP this month with Casey Groth's CJ-7 with 125" wheelbase from Wagoner Machine in Oklahoma. He drove it out of Upper Heldorado, no winching involved. Not too bad eh? Different builds for different purposes. No worries though, I'm getting a Sami too so I can do the short wheel base thing.

Wait,

So you haven't done any of this yet, but you put it all in your sig like you've been driving it for years. Hmm, that's pretty :rainbow: If you are truly building a rig for rocks, you do not need horsepower. All you need is gearing. HP on rocks just breaks shit. If you are running mud or sand climbs the hp makes sense. I guess you are going full hydro on your steering in the front with that wheelbase, or you have to fab up a new mount and booty fab your steering box. Also, you must be choping off the rear half of the frame, because it won't work to move the coils back past where the frame curves back down. I think you have a lot more work cut out for you than you possibly realize. Good luck if you actually do anything.

I think somebody has been reading too many magazines.:rolleyes:
What trails are you currently running, that has got you thinking you need to match the Wagoner Machine Behemoths?

Sounds like you will be wrenching steadily for a while with your Unlimited Jeep build up, and your Sammi build up.

Now put down the magazine, and slowly back away, so that your build up doesnt change directions with each new and exciting edition of JP. :flipoff2:

Fawkin Newbies:rolleyes:

Ya'll are making a lot of assumptions here. Relax, sit back, and realize that it could possibly work to build a rig that's not what YOU think should be built. True, there's work still to be done on it, but I never said I'd been driving it for years. It's what I've got so I put it down. The suspension is done, bout to drop the motor, then steering and some little stuff. By the way, Casey on the front of JP, that's what we like to call a reference. I'm not building mine just like his, and that's not the first time I've seen his rig. They both have rocks and long wheelbases and his obviously works.....again, a reference. Mine had already started in that direction before I knew anything about his. As far as matching the guys at Wagoner, what's the problem with that again? I want my rig to be capable, why not try to run with the best? I'd rather not settle for mediocre like some. The steering is fully hydraulic, dual rams. I've tested my suspension and it's worked great. Believe me, I know what I've gotten into and have prepared for it. Ya know, newbie doesn't mean new to the whole idea of wheelin', just to the board. Think about it, if Groth came on as a newbie, what would you say about his rig?:laughing:

Oh, and with the 500, to tell you the truth I don't really give a rip about what the horsepower is. I got it for the low end torque. It's a lot easier and cheaper than buying a sbc and building it to match the 500. Again, the Jeep is built stout to handle it, hence the rockwells, TH400, NP205, 2.5 ton driveshafts, etc. I'll let ya know how it works, you know, that is if I ever "actually do anything".

The caddy mill is a great motor and they are dirty cheap in stock trim. However, when it busts, it will cost more then a SBC or AMC motor. The adapters, mounts etc.... will cost you more. Fi you plan to ever run FI you will be stuck adapting a sysytem to it rather then just being able to "plug and play" with a factory setup. You can do custom EFI or DFI but the cost would be great.....why spend the money when you can do it easy and cheap on a SBC.

Building another, more common motor to match the torque and be a better balanced motor thorugh out the RPM range you plan to use would not cost much mor ethen the caddy mill and junk that goes with it. It's the high RPM quick power building motors that cost a lot of mony, you can make a torque moster for much less.

Now, what is whit the bitching about people getting down on your swap? You asked about it and they are telling you what they think of it. when you ask a question, expecially here, you just can not expect to get only positive replys. Learn to accept other peoples ideas and opinions even if the differ from yours and learn from the info.

Whilke I have my rant on, big props to H8monday on the magazine rant.....so much in them is total BS, the reviews are crap and they are just trying to start/follow trends!

I think it is a neat swap, I just don't think I would do it myself. You wanna do it you go right on a ahead.

Hey Dug, all good stuff there. Let me just straighten something out here before it gets all crazy. I understood from the beginning that when you build a rig and then you put it up for all to see you are openening yourself up to the criticism that comes with it. I expect it, and I've already got some new ideas from what a couple of people have said. I have no problems with it, I knew it was coming, I was just showing my position as they were theirs, it's all in good fun. It's kind of like defending a thesis, you put it up there knowing it's gonna be torn into then you back it up. I know how it is on here, you have to have thick skin. Someone swings you swing back(at least sometimes). Keep on wheelin';)

Originally posted by hy_desert_4wheeler
The Caddy uses the same bolt pattern as a BOP.. You can change the tailshaft from your current tranny to the caddy tranny and use it..

I'm not too sure about that. Used to have a Coupe De Ville and I seem to remember that the bolt pattern was different. The 500 was only available in the Eldorado, which was a FWD vehicle, but I believe the bolt pattern was the same.

I always thought that there were three bolt patterns, Chevy, BOP and Caddy. The Caddy's used TH425's while the BOP's used TH400's.

Bob
63 DTG

Originally posted by Capt. Nemo
Not sure that this is your case, but some caddy engines have wet sleeves and are unreliable. Where the steel cyclinder sleeve contacts the cast iron block at the bottom is a real weak point which allows coolant to leak into the bottom end of the engine, particularly if its been bored over. Hate to see someone put so much work into something that might prove to be unreliable. Once again, this might not be your case...

Don't think that's the case with the 500cid engine. It's preatty damn reliable. Would feel the same with the 429 and the 472 also.

Bob
63 DTG

As far as I know, from what I've researched, the caddy 500's all came attached to a TH400, and they had a BOP bolt pattern, should've been BOPC, just left off the C. I've got a Caddy TH400, so I'm not too worried about that, just the fitment, cooling, etc, of the engine.

Originally posted by BigVic
As far as I know, from what I've researched, the caddy 500's all came attached to a TH400, and they had a BOP bolt pattern, should've been BOPC, just left off the C. I've got a Caddy TH400, so I'm not too worried about that, just the fitment, cooling, etc, of the engine.

Just did a quick look, and only 75 and 76 RWD Caddy's had 500's in them. I didn't realize that, mine was a 74.

Here's a good link that talks about how to tell if you have a 500 or a 472 and the differences. (You might have been sold a 472 mistakenly.)

http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Pit/9364/guide/Engineid.html

Bob
63DTG

Hey Bob, thanks for the info. The '75 I have is for sure a 500, I bought the whole car and checked the sticker on the radiator, 500 cid. 500's did come in 70 and 71 Eldorado's at least, but none of the other models. I'll have to check if they had 500's in any of the 72-74's, but I think they did. I'll have to find the link.