okay here's a new thread

[R O]

I've got a 76scoutxlc that is currently undergoing rust repair.It's got 304,t19wide,d20,3.54's open,I've also have spares,345,d20,f/r axles also 3.54.I have pretty good idea what I'm going to do with it but the more ideas I can get the better the truck will be.
I will be using the truck for some daily driving and say around #4 trails.Mostly I'll be using it for camping.I will start with 33's and mabey go for 35's later.As for total cost,somewere in the mid-range,for example I'm going to use a ford RC dana44 cut down for scout axles and hubs.How about some input from the modified guys on what they would do??? <IMG SRC="smilies/tongue.gif" border="0">

[Ben W]

Heres what I would do, for a camping/moderate wheeling Scout II.

SOA with stock springs
4.10 gears, welded rear, lockright front.
Good cage
Winch

[Scout Dude]

Ford axle- Wrong side diff. Also, doesn't a 76 come with a D44 already? If anything, I would swap the Ford knuckles and everything out onto your Scout. This gives you 5 on 5.5 with better hubs and true D44 axle outers.

[HooperSSII]

Fiberglass inserts with SSII doors and mirrors. Soft top, SSII grille. Paint it fire orange.

Bedline the tub, front to rear, and seal up the underside really well. 33 gallon tank so you can get where you want to go and back without carrying gas cans.

Get the offroad package for the carb.

[HooperSSII]

Ooops. Forgot. Go straight to MT's, don't get AT's. MT's behave and wear well enough on the street as daily driver tread that there is no need to sacrifice the traction the MT's give, by getting AT's.

[R O]

cage and winch for sure.
If I do soa I'll have cut and turn anyway,might as well go high pinion ford and switch the diff to fit scout.yes it's d44 already but what's better about ford outers?(insert ignorence here)I was thinking that since I have one set of spare axles already and can get more, I'd use scout stuff.By stock springs you mean xlc springs right?What about reverse the u-bolts and sawzall versus soa?

[Scout Dude]

Originally posted by R O:
<STRONG>cage and winch for sure.
If I do soa I'll have cut and turn anyway,might as well go high pinion ford and switch the diff to fit scout.yes it's d44 already but what's better about ford outers?(insert ignorence here)I was thinking that since I have one set of spare axles already and can get more, I'd use scout stuff.By stock springs you mean xlc springs right?What about reverse the u-bolts and sawzall versus soa?</STRONG>

You can do a spring over on the Scout axle. It would be easier. Scouts have different knuckle & hub design than the most ohters. They use 8 bolt knuckles which are rare. 8 bolt flat tops are even more rare. They also use D30 outer shafts with external bolt on hubs. Ford, Jeep & Chevy use 6 bolt knuckles and flat tops are readily available. If you go spring over, I am fairly certain that you need to go cross over steering.

[R O]

Originally posted by R O:
<STRONG>cage and winch for sure.
If I do soa I'll have cut and turn anyway,might as well go high pinion ford and switch the diff to fit scout.yes it's d44 already but what's better about ford outers?(insert ignorence here)I was thinking that since I have one set of spare axles already and can get more, I'd use scout stuff.By stock springs you mean xlc springs right?
What about reverse the u-bolts and sawzall versus soa?</STRONG>

about the 3.54s,I know with 33,s I'll lose some low gearing but 65mph with 31's sucks,do you think the low first gear will make up enough to avoid 4.10's.Since I've already got spares and I weld them, if they grenade who cares

[Scout Dude]

Originally posted by R O:
<STRONG>...(insert ignorence here)...</STRONG>

Stick around, this will be corrected soon enough (hopefully)...

[Scout Dude]

Originally posted by R O:
<STRONG>about the 3.54s,I know with 33,s I'll lose some low gearing but 65mph with 31's sucks,do you think the low first gear will make up enough to avoid 4.10's.Since I've already got spares and I weld them, if they grenade who cares</STRONG>

I'm still a little new on which gears are the best. I have 4.10's on mine & I run 36's. I would like to go lower though...but it works great on the freeway.

[Ben W]

Originally posted by R O:
<STRONG>cage and winch for sure.
If I do soa I'll have cut and turn anyway,might as well go high pinion ford and switch the diff to fit scout.yes it's d44 already but what's better about ford outers?(insert ignorence here)I was thinking that since I have one set of spare axles already and can get more, I'd use scout stuff.By stock springs you mean xlc springs right?What about reverse the u-bolts and sawzall versus soa?</STRONG>

Yep, by stock springs I meant the xlc's you have on it already.

The RC44 sounds like a good plan, not required, but it would be a nice upgrade for not too much more work. The Ford outers are considered stronger because they use internal hubs instead of the bolt-on external style Scouts use. You would still use Scout inner axles, but you would have to use Ford stub (outer) axles if you used the Ford outers. The Ford outers would also make it easier to do highsteer.

SUA with u-bolt flip & major sawzall action? I guess, if thats what you want, but I doubt you could fit 33's very well with out at least 2.5" lift springs, or add-a-leafs. I prefer SOA, it works well, rides nice, and doesn't cost too much if you can do it yourself.

[Ben W]

Originally posted by R O:
<STRONG>about the 3.54s,I know with 33,s I'll lose some low gearing but 65mph with 31's sucks,do you think the low first gear will make up enough to avoid 4.10's.Since I've already got spares and I weld them, if they grenade who cares</STRONG>

Sure you can use them, and change it later if you want. I ran 3.07's with 33's & an auto for a year, it sucked on and off-road, but I still got around. <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0"> With a T19, it wouldn't be nearly as bad.

[Scout Dude]

Hey 61Scout...What gears are you running now? You run 36's also right?

[Ben W]

Originally posted by Scout Dude:
<STRONG>Hey 61Scout...What gears are you running now? You run 36's also right?</STRONG>

4.10's w/ 36" TSL's. Not bad with the 472, but I'd still like to go lower, maybe 4.56 or 4.88.

[R O]

Okay then,I can get a rc44 fron an f250 for about $100, reverse and shorten the tubes, new mounts for the soa and use the ford ends.I've seen high steer on some scouts but I'm not really familiar with it how about some pics or writeups.
Hooper,I'll run without doors and top most of the year anyway,get a softop made at a marine shop.
Does anybody run LPG,I've got a system(425) and am considering using it on the 345 When it gets rebuilt

[Scout Dude]

Originally posted by 61Scout:
<STRONG>4.10's w/ 36" TSL's. Not bad with the 472, but I'd still like to go lower, maybe 4.56 or 4.88.</STRONG>

Yeah, I was think about 4.56's. Apparently, 4.88's have a smaller pinion. I also have an overdrive unit that bolts to my Dana 20 x-case, I think that this will help cure my freeway problems. What tranny are you running? Auto?

[Ben W]

Originally posted by Scout Dude:
<STRONG>What tranny are you running? Auto?</STRONG>

Yep, TH400 auto.

[Scout Dude]

Originally posted by R O:
<STRONG>Okay then,I can get a rc44 fron an f250 for about $100, reverse and shorten the tubes, new mounts for the soa and use the ford ends.I've seen high steer on some scouts but I'm not really familiar with it how about some pics or writeups.
Hooper,I'll run without doors and top most of the year anyway,get a softop made at a marine shop.
Does anybody run LPG,I've got a system(425) and am considering using it on the 345 When it gets rebuilt</STRONG>
Okay, if you are set on the Ford front go for it. However, it is already sprung over. All you need to do is shorten it. I would cut it down to your scout's width like you mentioned. It make getting replacment axles that much easier. Definitly go with the Ford outers. As for LPG, I would run it if you have access to LPG up there. It is a great system and is easy to maintain. Also, the combustion is cleaner so your engine does not have as much carbon build up. The only draw back is that there is less BTU's in LPG than gasoline--> translation, less horse power.

[Ben W]

Originally posted by R O:
<STRONG>Okay then,I can get a rc44 fron an f250 for about $100, reverse and shorten the tubes, new mounts for the soa and use the ford ends.I've seen high steer on some scouts but I'm not really familiar with it how about some pics or writeups.
</STRONG>

One problem, the F250 axle is going to be 8-lug.

Heres some pictures of my highsteer, and my brother Jays. Scout II highsteer would be slightly different because of the long ass pitman arm they use.

highsteer pictures (http://home.earthlink.net/~smrnof100/highsteer)

[tsm1mt]

Originally posted by R O:
<STRONG>about the 3.54s,I know with 33,s I'll lose some low gearing but 65mph with 31's sucks,do you think the low first gear will make up enough to avoid 4.10's.Since I've already got spares and I weld them, if they grenade who cares</STRONG>

Who goes 65mph on 31s? I only go that slow in my pickup with the trailer on the back..

I run "Tigger" at 65-75mph. With 4.09s and 33s, and occasionally with 31s.

It's only 3000rpm give or take..

Also keep in mind wind resistance. My Scout (4" lift, soft-top, 33s) will get 15+mpg at 65mph, but 10mpg at 75mph.

[tsm1mt]

Originally posted by Scout Dude:
<STRONG>They also use D30 outer shafts with external bolt on hubs.
</STRONG>

I've never heard 'em called Dana 30 stubs before! Just because that's all J**p ever used the 27sp stubs on..

74-80 SII D44s use the 297 U-joints - even with the 27sp stubs.

[tsm1mt]

Originally posted by Scout Dude:
Okay, if you are set on the Ford front go for it. However, it is already sprung over. All you need to do is shorten it. I would cut it down to your scout's width like you mentioned.


The F*rd axle will have the pumpkin on the driver's (wrong) side, so he'll have to retube it to get a right-drop.

Either that, or convert to a left-drop t'case.

[jdjanda]

If you keep the gears, add a drop in locker to the front $200.00, don't ask me how to setup it up I fawk'd up mine. Leave the trac-don't-lock in the rear, better on street manners with all the rain you have there. Add a Tera 3:1 kit, ~$800.00. Now you have a grand into the drive train and a 70:1 crawl. Add 4" front springs ~$300.00, SOA the rear ~$100.00. 32" radial TSL's (~$800.00) fit on my Scout zero rub with 4" SkyJackers, new body mounts and 1" pucks. The TSL's are a little noisy but, 33's should fit with little to no rub. Add a cage, or rear bar if you leave the top on $250 - $500. Sell the Ford axle to offset some costs. You'll have a great low maintenance trail rig for under $2,500.00 US. That should more then get you started, and a fairly capable rig. Add $1,500 for winch, Hi-lift, recovery accessories, and other trail stuff. Nice rig for $4,000.00. Of course according to the other guys I may be full of shit. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Joe <IMG SRC="smilies/smokin.gif" border="0">

[Hayraker]

Originally posted by R O:
<STRONG>about the 3.54s,I know with 33,s I'll lose some low gearing but 65mph with 31's sucks,do you think the low first gear will make up enough to avoid 4.10's.Since I've already got spares and I weld them, if they grenade who cares</STRONG>

I am still running 3.54's, planning on going to 4.56 as soon as possible, however I can get around "ok" with the 727 pulled down in L1 and in low range and with the skinny pedal on the floor.

[Scout Dude]

Originally posted by tsm1mt:
<STRONG>The F*rd axle will have the pumpkin on the driver's (wrong) side, so he'll have to retube it to get a right-drop.

Either that, or convert to a left-drop t'case.</STRONG>

Yeah, he already mentioned having it re-tubed...

[tsm1mt]

Originally posted by Scout Dude:
<STRONG>Yeah, he already mentioned having it re-tubed...</STRONG>

Right, I was referring to this part of your post:

<STRONG> However, it is already sprung over. All you need to do is shorten it.</STRONG>

Just noting he can't just shorten it - it needs retubed.

And even though it's already SOA, the perch cast into the housing will be on the wrong (left/driver's) side after you retube it to put the diff on the passenger side.

Thassal.

[R O]

I'll just have to look a little harder for rc44 from a bronco or a 150,retubing for higher pinion and correct rotation seems like a small price to pay not to mention what is apparently stronger outers.soa with the stock springs.What the ford diff has for gears will determine which ratio to run 4.10's would be better but I've already got spare 3.54's which will allow me to run them welded without worrying about wrecking them and it will also decide between detroit or spool.trannys good to go,bronco gears in the transfer case or save up for doubler.rebuild the 345 add a litle more compression and run LPG.keep bugging everyone until I figure out a setup for highsteer and that should be good for drivetrain.
Waddaya think??

[Ben W]

Originally posted by R O:
<STRONG>I'll just have to look a little harder for rc44 from a bronco or a 150,retubing for higher pinion and correct rotation seems like a small price to pay not to mention what is apparently stronger outers.soa with the stock springs.What the ford diff has for gears will determine which ratio to run 4.10's would be better but I've already got spare 3.54's which will allow me to run them welded without worrying about wrecking them and it will also decide between detroit or spool.trannys good to go,bronco gears in the transfer case or save up for doubler.rebuild the 345 add a litle more compression and run LPG.keep bugging everyone until I figure out a setup for highsteer and that should be good for drivetrain.
Waddaya think??</STRONG>

Sounds good!! I think 3.54's were fairly common in the F150's & broncos.

The bronco gears would be a good way to go in the D20 too.

I'm working on a highsteer setup for Scout II's. Got one prototype arm out right now, I hope to get some pictures when he gets it put togther (Mark? <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">). Watch this BB for more news. <IMG SRC="smilies/wink.gif" border="0">

[tsm1mt]

Originally posted by R O:
<STRONG>I'll just have to look a little harder for rc44 from a bronco or a 150,retubing for
*snip*
a setup for highsteer and that should be good for drivetrain.
Waddaya think??</STRONG>


Sounds like an awful lot of work for a "take me down the FS roads and go camping" rig!

Either you're kidding yourself that all you'll do is some moderate wheelin'/camping, or you're just into overkill. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

(BTW, is that a #4 out of 5, or 4 out of 10 rating?)

For your basic camping/light wheelin' rig.. bolt on some 4" Triangles, a 1" or 2" body lift, Run your 33s with 3.54 to 4.09 gears and call it good.
You'll keep good street manners and load capacity with adequate clearance.

go for the SOA if you have the $$$/skills and want to go more for trail and less for street use.

4" SUA is a better platform for towing stuff, too - say a small camp trailer or a boat.

[R O]

I think all things considerd the ford diff is worth the extra work not so much for strengh but for durability due to proper design.Yes it's mostly for camping but I don't like public campgrounds so soa gets me further away from "civilization".I haven't given much thought to trailers though,good point.what
What I'm working for is;
#1 reliability
#2 cost effectiveness
#3 offroad ability
#4 extra coolness factor(it's already a scout <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> the ford diff makes it a little more different)

most of the terrain around here is rock covered with moss,sua is really gonna limit the # of trails and more arch in the springs is too stiff(and they sag).

[R O]

Originally posted by R O:
<STRONG>I think all things considerd the ford diff is worth the extra work not so much for strengh but for durability due to proper design.Yes it's mostly for camping but I don't like public campgrounds so soa gets me further away from "civilization".I haven't given much thought to trailers though,good point.what
What I'm working for is;
#1 reliability
#2 cost effectiveness
#3 offroad ability
#4 extra coolness factor(it's already a scout <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> the ford diff makes it a little more different)

most of the terrain around here is rock covered with moss,sua is really gonna limit the # of trails and more arch in the springs is too stiff(and they sag).</STRONG>

oh yah #4 trails aren't quite moderate around here

whoops, use the edit button not the quote
<IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0">

[ 08-29-2001: Message edited by: R O ]

[tsm1mt]

Originally posted by R O:
<STRONG>I think all things considerd the ford diff is worth the extra work not so much for strengh but for durability due to proper design.
</STRONG>

I understand the benefits of the HP44 over the standard '44.. I'm just wondering if a person isn't going "extreme" that there is a greater risk of fouling something up when building the HP44. - but if it's also coolness factor you're after, by all means, have at it!

Heck, I have a HP F150 '44 lying in my yard to get retubed for my Scout, too. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

That said, I haven't blown any standard-cut D44 R&P's yet - not in my locked, heavy, trail Scout II, nor in the high-horse 4.88 geared race truck.

<STRONG>
Yes it's mostly for camping but I don't like public campgrounds
</STRONG>

Me neither!

[jdjanda]

The Tera install IMHO would be one of the best improvements you could do. You figure swapping Bronco gears is going to run you at least $350.00, the Tera kit is around $800.00. With the extra low gearing in the case your choices for R&P's open up.

Joe <IMG SRC="smilies/smokin.gif" border="0">

[Scout Dude]

Originally posted by tsm1mt:
<STRONG>Right, I was referring to this part of your post:


Just noting he can't just shorten it - it needs retubed.

And even though it's already SOA, the perch cast into the housing will be on the wrong (left/driver's) side after you retube it to put the diff on the passenger side.

Thassal.</STRONG>

Damn it...I hate it when I over look something.