or propane as you guys call it.

I have been working on injecting my toyota diesel for awhile now and have a some what home brew way of doing it has no kits are avaliable here in australia. Basically i have all the ratios worked out, the injectors flowed to suit, the problem i am having is where to setup the injection, fuel line is out of the question. No one here can deal me and some people can shed aliitle light on the situation but here is the 2 ideas that i have.

and idea 2, i want to know the pros and cons of both ideas, re heat, effectiveness etc.



cheers

NICK

after for a cooling effect

that is what i originally thought, after some thought, i thought that the boost would draw the LPG in and it would run lean as the LPG will be adjusted to about 25% of the fuel ratio. So basically in the lower revs it will be drawing LPG, say it is the maxium (25%) at the high revs it is trying to draw the same even thou the diesel fuel ratio has increased.

By putting it on the non boost side it could "linger" in the manifold and heat the turbo to much.

At this point in time i am putting it on the boost side as it makes more sense over all.


NICK

All the commercially sold propane kits (including my Powershot 2000 on my '52 Dodge M37 w/3.7L Hercules diesel) go directly downstream of the air cleaner, BEFORE the turbo. The turbo assures compete homogenization of the fumigated (that's the correct word!) propane-air mixture.
My kit, which runs off propane vapor, out of an upright tank, also has a boost-actuated valve which does not open till 4-5 psi of boost, thus assuring sufficient air for the rpopane, and that it won't run propane at idle or when the engine stalls.
It adds a lot of power. I'd estimate I've increased from 125 hp to 175 hp, and from 268 ft-lb to about 360-370 ft-lb. It goes pretty incredible for a 3.7L 4-banger in a 6500 lb truck.
Charlie

so the kits you buy are on the no boost side, what you say makes sence.


i wonder if i could run propane a idel (none to minimal) and as i open it up it would vacume more LPG in, mmmmmmm i got an idea, back to the thinking board.



NICK

All the propane systems are injected before the turbo ( running it on the high pressure side causes trouble because of the pressure working against it) .There are different ways to set it up. You can run it with boost switch ( I have that), you can run it with a on-off switch, full throttle switch or run the propane whenever the engine runs. Since you don't need the propane at idle, most people run the boost switch, that way you don't waste any propane at a red light or sitting in idle somewhere

If you run propane at idle it runs rough since the pump oscillates between too much fuel (propane plus idle amount of diesel) and just propane, which does not self-ignite.
Charlie

hey nick, neil lennard, formerly of emu creek fame, with the GQ patrol, runs LPG injection on his nissan, and it gets good performance!

for an article on LPG try here:

http://www.motorhomemagazine.com/forums/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/CFB/1/TID/198668.cfm

this guy runs propane on his motor home for better performance, it is mainly performance, no fuel economy increase, and he set it up very cheaply....

i emailed dave hughes, who started the thread....back when i had a 4 cylinder
:rolleyes: :p ;) and here is what he had to say: (awesome knowledge)

"Racing was
where propane and diesel together were born.
propane actually works best with turbo diesels.
Try to keep in mind almost all the performance
equipment does is one of two and only two things.
It either gives you more airflow (exaust, turbo,
airfilters etc...) or more fuel. Diesels really
are that basic. Your pistons just create greater
pressure for the air and fuel. Now with that
said..... propane is additional fuel of a
different kind. As the vapor is pulled into your
engine and mixes with the diesel mist and the
diesel combusts, the propane also combusts and
causes the diesel to burn as complete as
possible. Greater burn means more efficient use of
the fuel more power. You get more power for the
same RPMs. Yes that means mileage and muscle. But
propane costs money so if increase mileage is
someones goal then they need to just stick with
straight diesel. There is a higher EGT but it is
well with-in the engines operating range. Mine
actually went down on steep grades or pulling
heavy loads but would be alittle higher just
riding down the road.

It sounds like propane in your engine would
really make a significant difference.

Hope it helps"

(Dave Hughes)

Originally posted by franky996
All the propane systems are injected before the turbo ( running it on the high pressure side causes trouble because of the pressure working against it) .There are different ways to set it up. You can run it with boost switch ( I have that), you can run it with a on-off switch, full throttle switch or run the propane whenever the engine runs. Since you don't need the propane at idle, most people run the boost switch, that way you don't waste any propane at a red light or sitting in idle somewhere

dude, where can you buy a switch that operates the mixture at boost, or full throttle...... are they commonly available and cheap?

because to get a chip installed onto your diesel over here to switch it all is $$$$$ so i was wondering if something else will work?

ya the switch's are fairly cheap, i think the boost switchs are called hobbs switchs. also what are you talking about getting a chip installed to switch the propane?

where from?

how much?

whats it look like?!?!

over here, there is a company setting it up, but it costs $8k, and they wont tell what they do! :(

but i think i can get away with it for under $1000 EASY, fitted, and installed, tank and everything!

Originally posted by BJ On Roids


but i think i can get away with it for under $1000 EASY, fitted, and installed, tank and everything!


thats what i am looking at, i have everthing i need bar the tank and it hasnt cost me a cent yet, but dyno tunning might be pricey.


NICK

Rob Mike Vine will have a hobbs switch. He uses them for his water methanol injection set ups on petrol turbo engines.

I think i may even have one but i dont know if its any good still.

Guys, what about this.

http://au.rs-c.dk/SmallProdPics/c317948-02.jpg

They go for less than $20AU and can be gotten from http://www.rs-components.com.au

They switch at 0.9PSI and will with-stand up to 40PSI. The contact current rating is a bit low (0.5A), but you could use it to drive a relay.

Goto http://au.rs-c.dk/servlet/dk.stibo.module.ShowModuleServlet?moduleId=5035303 for more details on the switch.

Paul.

pubfinder, how does that switch work...when boost is measured it starts to inject lpg....does the switch open more as more boost is measured?


tell me how it owrks.....

cool thanks ruff

hey nick, dyno will be around $600 :(

thats why you will have yours up and running and mine will be a year away!!

BJ, I would just use the switch to control the flow of LPG. (Eg at 0.9PSI the switch would close passing power to a gas solenoid which would open and allow the LPG to flow). I would also connect a line from somewhere on the manifold (post turbo) and plumb this to the converter balance port. So, as boost increases the effective post converter gas pressure will increase by the same amount. (Normally on a naturally aspirated vehicle the balance port is left open to atmosphere and the post converter pressure is “referenced” to normal atmospheric pressure, but in a turbo app. connecting the balance port to a source of boost will raise the “reference” pressure and thus the post converter gas pressure will raise and lower proportionally with boost).

The only glitch I see is when the system shuts down (below 0.9PSI of boost) there will still be some LPG left in the converter and this will continue to bleed through until it empties itself. I don’t know what effect that may have on your idle when you come of the peddle.

That’s kind of long winded, but I think it makes sense.

Paul.

Hang on.. would you even use a converter in this kind of app?
If you don't, I would just use the switch to enable the LPG, eg LPG turns on at boost pressures above 0.9PSI.

Originally posted by BJ On Roids


hey nick, dyno will be around $600 :(




nar it wont, i already checked and it is 200 bucks, i know people that know people :flipoff2: :flipoff2:


NICK

A Hobbs switch can be purchased at NAPA for a decent price. Try looking in the psa catalog (parts supplies & accesories catalog)for an adjustable one.