Does this 33,000 acres represent JV and the Hammers?
I can only hope. Was listed in the Fed Reg. on the 1/25/10.

http://www.blm.gov/ca/st/en/info/newsroom/2010/january/navy_requests_partial.html

Does this 33,000 acres represent JV and the Hammers?


Let's hope so....

Does this 33,000 acres represent JV and the Hammers?

Let's hope so....

I havnt compared it to the map, but the notice mentions a bunch of areas.

Here are the ones that are "Western"...


SUPPLEMENTARY INFORMATION: A Notice of Proposed Legislative Withdrawal
and Opportunity for Public Meeting was published in the Federal
Register on September 15, 2008 (73 FR 53269) in response to the initial
application from the Navy. Based on a review of the lands proposed for
withdrawal, the Navy has requested that the following described lands
and interest in lands be removed from its application:
1. Federally-owned surface and mineral estate:

San Bernardino Meridian

Western Expansion Area.

T. 4 N., R. 2 E.,
Sec. 2, lots 3 to 90, inclusive.
T. 6 N., R. 2 E.,
Sec. 1, SE\1/4\;
Sec. 12, E\1/2\.
T. 4 N., R. 3 E.,
Sec. 11;
Sec. 13, S\1/2\;
Sec. 14, SE\1/4\;
Sec. 15, N\1/2\.
T. 3 N., R. 4 E.,
Sec. 1.
T. 4 N., R. 4 E.,
Secs. 34 to 35, inclusive.
T. 3 N., R. 5 E.,
Sec. 9, W\1/2\NE\1/4\, NE\1/4\NW\1/4\, E\1/2\NW\1/4\NW\1/4\,
E\1/2\W\1/2\NW\1/4\NW\1/4\, W\1/2\SW\1/4\NW\1/4\NW\1/4\, NE\1/
4\SW\1/4\NW\1/4\, W\1/2\SW\1/4\NW\1/4\, W\1/2\SE\1/4\SW\1/4\NW\1/4\,
E\1/2\SE\1/4\NW\1/4\, W\1/2\NW\1/4\SE\1/4\NW\1/4\, and E\1/2\SW\1/
4\SE\1/4\NW\1/4\;
Sec. 10, SW\1/4\NE\1/4\, S\1/2\ NW\1/4\, and W\1/2\SW\1/4\;
Sec. 12, NE\1/4\NE\1/4\SE\1/4\, E\1/2\W\1/2\NE\1/4\SE\1/4\, E\1/
2\NE\1/4\NW\1/4\SE\1/4\, E\1/2\W\1/2\NW\1/4\SE\1/4\, W\1/2\SE\1/
4\NW\1/4\SE\1/4\, W\1/2\E\1/2\SW\1/4\SE\1/4\, NW\1/4\SW\1/4\SE\1/4\,
SW\1/4\SE\1/4\SE\1/4\, and W\1/2\SE\1/4\SE\1/4\SE\1/4\.


The areas described aggregate 33,488 acres, more or less, in San
Bernardino County.
2. Non-federally-owned surface and mineral estate:
(a). Privately-owned surface and mineral estate:

San Bernardino Meridian

Western Expansion Area.

T. 4 N., R. 3 E.,
Sec. 10, S\1/2\N\1/2\ and S\1/2\;
Sec. 11, SE\1/4\;
Sec. 12, SW\1/4\;
Sec. 13, N\1/2\.
T. 4 N., R. 4 E.,
Sec. 18, S\1/2\;
Sec. 36.
T. 3 N., R. 5 E.,
Sec. 9, W\1/2\NW\1/4\NW\1/4\NW\1/4\, E\1/2\SE\1/4\SW\1/4\NW\1/
4\, E\1/2\NW\1/4\SE\1/4\NW\1/4\, and W\1/2\SW\1/4\SE\1/4\NW\1/4\;
Sec. 12, SE\1/4\NE\1/4\SE\1/4\, W\1/2\W\1/2\NE\1/4\SE\1/4\,
NW\1/4\NE\1/4\NW\1/4\SE\1/4\, SE\1/4\SE\1/4\NW\1/4\SE\1/4\, W\1/
2\W\1/2\NW\1/4\SE\1/4\, E\1/2\E\1/2\SW\1/4\SE\1/4\, SW\1/4\SW\1/
4\SE\1/4\, N\1/2\SE\1/4\SE\1/4\, SW\1/4\SE\1/4\SE\1/4\, and E\1/
2\SE\1/4\SE\1/4\SE\1/4\.

The areas described aggregate 24,837 acres, more or less, in San
Bernardino County.
(b). State-of-California-owned surface and mineral estate:

San Bernardino Meridian

Western Expansion Area.

T. 4 N., R. 3 E.,
Sec. 14, N\1/2\;
Sec. 15, S\1/2\.


Much of the lands they are releasing to the East and North are areas East of the "Sheephole Wilderness, South of the "Route 66 corridor", and West of the "Cadiz Dunes Wilderness".

If someone has the BLM Desert Access Guides or the USGS Topo's, they can compare the areas listed above and report back.




k.

Woops beat me to it...

Does look like east only a little west...

It looks like minor border adjustments along the boundary of the JV OHV Area just east of Soggy Dry lake and southeast of Means Dry Lake.

I was talking to a guy today in the marines and he knew about the hammers and said they arent going to be closed, He said they are taking land around them. So maybe they will be saved?

I was talking to a guy today in the marines and he knew about the hammers and said they arent going to be closed, He said they are taking land around them. So maybe they will be saved?

That isn't so....

The latest proposal from the Marines is to allow usage of the Hammers when they are not using it.
I'd say that we 'loan' them JV only when they need it. We get it all the rest of the time.
They would need to apply for a use permit just like the KOH event did.



Hey, its an idea.

Maybe i heard it wrong, but he did mention about that too. I guess its better than nothing but our luck it would only be during the middle of summer.

That isn't so....

The latest proposal from the Marines is to allow usage of the Hammers when they are not using it.
I'd say that we 'loan' them JV only when they need it. We get it all the rest of the time.
They would need to apply for a use permit just like the KOH event did.



Hey, its an idea.

No grain of sand lost.

I was talking to a guy today in the marines and he knew about the hammers and said they arent going to be closed, He said they are taking land around them. So maybe they will be saved?


Once they take the land around it, it won't be long before they want all of it.

That isn't so....

The latest proposal from the Marines is to allow usage of the Hammers when they are not using it.
I'd say that we 'loan' them JV only when they need it. We get it all the rest of the time.
They would need to apply for a use permit just like the KOH event did.



Hey, its an idea.


x2...
We must not let them hold the KEYS!

But that's only a last resort.

I agree with Dave..."No grain of sand lost" ...and we need to stick with that...period!

I do not advocate losing any land to the Marine Corps on a permanent basis.
But.....why wouldn't we agree to allowing them to use it under a short term permit basis the same way we lose usage of the trails for other types of events?

They say they need all that land so they can march, without back tracking, for 48hrs. So, they apply to use the area for 48hrs then, when they are done, it goes back to being an open OHV area.

Ya, as long as they don't fabricate an incident of missing munitions while traveling through our section of land. To me that sounds like a reasonable cause to secure and close off the area if we allow to co-exist.
...just say'n

I do not advocate losing any land to the Marine Corps on a permanent basis.
But.....why wouldn't we agree to allowing them to use it under a short term permit basis the same way we lose usage of the trails for other types of events?

They say they need all that land so they can march, without back tracking, for 48hrs. So, they apply to use the area for 48hrs then, when they are done, it goes back to being an open OHV area.


They're not going to want to be the ones to ask someone for a permit. They are going to want to be the ones who make the decisions and hand out the permits. They aren't just looking for a place to march, they want live fire ranges and they aren't going to risk sharing those areas with the public.

Have you seen the Alternative 6 map yet?

They have it posted on PFJV.

http://www.pfjv.org/

The orangish area on the south side of JV is the proposed "shared use" area. It includes most all of the Hammers Trails except Outer Limits and a small portion of the Aftershock/SunBonnet area (which we might be able to have adjusted). Shared use area will be small arms only, no dud producing ordinance (big guns).

The red area to the north will be full time base, public excluded. There will be live fire in that area which might produce duds. While this area isn't widely used by the rock crawler crowd, it does include some of the KOH course, and is widely used by MDR/desert racer types and AMA/Motorcycle users.

We cannot accept this alternative simply because it is a concession to the rock crawlers, we need to continue to stand with the other OHV users for no grain of sand lost.

I am not aware of any areas that the military is required to submit an application for use. It is just a concept that, to me, seems valid.
The application idea would exclude them from being able to use 'big guns'
in JV.

But, I am not of the camp that would negotiate the loss of Johnson Valley away to the Marines. I would like to explore options though.....

No grain of sand lost.

This.

We've already tried to meet in the middle with the closurists(on other issues) and that just gives us a new "middle" to meet them on in the future. :shaking:
JV was sculpted into what it is today and it didn't happen over night.
No compromise, no sand lost.

no compromise. no sand lost. I am tired of losing our off roading areas. even if it is to the Marines. Let them use the nearby wilderness areas. NO MORE LOST TRAILS!

dont they already have enough land to shoot on?
do they really NEED all of it?:(

Just for background information. I am a retired marine and worked many years in various operations offices as well as coordinate all training that was planned.

They already have a request system in place. They have to lay out complete route maps and usage times to include all support that will be in a specific training area. They due this so there is no overlap in training usage, so when something goes wrong or an accident happens they know who to look for and who is responsible if that training area is trashed.

I think they have all the areas they need currently between Camp Pendleton, MCAS Yuma, MCLB Barstow, and Twenty Nine Palms.

If they need something specific for training then they need to apply for it's use and follow the same rules we have to in regards to the permits, trash, human waste, and security.

We have to do it for our TDS event, KOH has to do it and so should they. And just becuase they are there training does not mean the area is closed to others.