I am contemplating papering my PARA FAL with a fluted barrel and cutting it down to 11". It has the short gas system so I'm thinking this is the easy way to get to OSW land.

Any issues with cutting it down from those that have BTDT?

I am contemplating papering my PARA FAL with a fluted barrel and cutting it down to 11". It has the short gas system so I'm thinking this is the easy way to get to OSW land.

Any issues with cutting it down from those that have BTDT?

Only 2 issues I know of.

1) Make sure you have your paperwork in hand before shortening the barrel.
2) You will need to open up the gas port hole for it to run. Probably to around .120-.125.

The last one I built ended up running perfectly with a gas port size of .122 with the regulator set on 4. That is the F/A Fal seen in my avatar.

So, why do you need paperwork to shorten the barrel of a FAL?

So, why do you need paperwork to shorten the barrel of a FAL?

Because ANY rifle or shotgun that has a barrel less than 16 inches has to be registered through the BATFE as a short barrel rifle or shotgun. NFA laws my man.

Because ANY rifle or shotgun that has a barrel less than 16 inches has to be registered through the BATFE as a short barrel rifle or shotgun. NFA laws my man.

shotgun minimum is 18"

shotgun minimum is 18"

OOPPPSS.
Your right.

Thanks.

Sorry, I missed the 11" barrel part of your post. I thought that you were cutting it down to 16.25". I feel dumb...

11" .308 makes my ears hurt from here.

11" .308 makes my ears hurt from here.

that's what i was thinking. an 11" barreled 308 seems like a waste of a perfectly good cartridge to me. i'd be curious what kind of muzzle velocity and energy a 308 gets in 11".

11" .308 makes my ears hurt from here.

Not with a can.:grinpimp:

11" .308 makes my ears hurt from here.

:laughing:

that's what i was thinking. an 11" barreled 308 seems like a waste of a perfectly good cartridge to me. i'd be curious what kind of muzzle velocity and energy a 308 gets in 11".

I'll try and chrono it for you down the road. This is not about need, nor long range targets.

Not with a can.:grinpimp:

:evil: 10-4.

Not with a can.:grinpimp:

You better build or buy a BEEFY can, that muzzle blast is going to raise hell on it.

I'll try and chrono it for you down the road. This is not about need, nor long range targets.


if you want it, go for it. i would like to see the chrony numbers. i am mostly curious when a full power rifle cartridge becomes less efficient than a pistol cartridge with the same barrel length. maybe it never does, just thinking out loud here.

You better build or buy a BEEFY can, that muzzle blast is going to raise hell on it.

Not to mention all the powder possibly igniting inside the can and fouling it like a mofo.

Muzzle flash will certainly light up the night!
If you are handloading then you could load some heavy bullets that seat far into the neck and make better use of the space than the powder would make... since that energy is just converted to heat and light and not actually propelling anything. What is the heaviest .308 you can get? Will they fit in a mag? Will they fit if you seat them deep enough?

Muzzle flash will certainly light up the night!
If you are handloading then you could load some heavy bullets that seat far into the neck and make better use of the space than the powder would make... since that energy is just converted to heat and light and not actually propelling anything. What is the heaviest .308 you can get? Will they fit in a mag? Will they fit if you seat them deep enough?

Sierra MatchKing comes in a .308 240gr version.
between the weight and the short barrel length you would easily be able to build a subsonic round.

Thats my plan for my supressed Ishipore when ever I get to it

You better build or buy a BEEFY can, that muzzle blast is going to raise hell on it.

Suggestions? Looking at the YHM 7.62 threaded version.

if you want it, go for it. i would like to see the chrony numbers. i am mostly curious when a full power rifle cartridge becomes less efficient than a pistol cartridge with the same barrel length. maybe it never does, just thinking out loud here.

Surely someone here can chime in with that info....

Sierra MatchKing comes in a .308 240gr version.
between the weight and the short barrel length you would easily be able to build a subsonic round.

Thats my plan for my supressed Ishipore when ever I get to it

Shooting a shorty FAL with a YHM 7.62 threaded and subsonics got me into the FAL business...and may get me into .308 reloading.

You better build or buy a BEEFY can, that muzzle blast is going to raise hell on it.

I`m very fortunate to have 3 different "aquintances", that hold manufacture SOT`s. 2 are supressor specific and the other just loves to build crazy F/A HK stuff.

The can is F/A rated, but only see`s Sierra 240`s subsonic.

I`m very fortunate to have 3 different "aquintances", that hold manufacture SOT`s. 2 are supressor specific and the other just loves to build crazy F/A HK stuff.

The can is F/A rated, but only see`s Sierra 240`s subsonic.

I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't know some of the same folks :D
And actually my list would be closer to 6 that are 7/SOT.
Does FMA sound familiar ?

I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't know some of the same folks :D
And actually my list would be closer to 6 that are 7/SOT.
Does FMA sound familiar ?

No Rusty, it doesn`t.

How about PC Arms/ORL, Hair trigger, or On Target?:grinpimp:

No Rusty, it doesn`t.

How about PC Arms/ORL, Hair trigger, or On Target?:grinpimp:

Yep,i know PC Arms,and Hairtrigger ,never dealt with OnTarget.
How about Tornado Tech,Fort Moe,Ortwein ent. ?
PM sent

Get a room....or add some tech. Didn't you read the new forum rules? :flipoff2:

I don't think that you should have a problem. Adam762 on FALFiles has cut down a number of barrels and converted them to a short gas system and I have not read of any issues with his conversions. I am thinking about doing something similar but only cutting down to a 13" barrel.

The last one I built ended up running perfectly with a gas port size of .122 with the regulator set on 4.

Do you mean the gas port that is visible at the regulator? I am just starting to really work on the FAL's.

The port in the barrel

I suppose I have to break down the front end to get to it? Will that mean re head spacing and all?

You dont have to remove the barrel from the reciever, so no worries on headspacing. Disassemble the gas system, handguards etc.. press out the gas block pin and then press the gas block off.

You dont have to remove the barrel from the reciever, so no worries on headspacing. Disassemble the gas system, handguards etc.. press out the gas block pin and then press the gas block off.

HOLY SHIT NO!!!:shaking:

To enlarge the "Barrel" gas port on a "METRIC" rifle, all you have to do is remove the front sight post, fixing plate, and spring. There is a hole to the rear of the sight post threaded hole that goes straight down through the gas block into the barrel. THATS the hole that has to be enlarged to increase the amount of gas to the piston.

HOLY SHIT NO!!!:shaking:

To enlarge the "Barrel" gas port on a "METRIC" rifle, all you have to do is remove the front sight post, fixing plate, and spring. There is a hole to the rear of the sight post threaded hole that goes straight down through the gas block into the barrel. THATS the hole that has to be enlarged to increase the amount of gas to the piston.

So, you don't need to enlarge the gas port on the barrel at all when cutting down to 11" barrel length?

So, you don't need to enlarge the gas port on the barrel at all when cutting down to 11" barrel length?

No he ios saying you dont need to remove the gas block on the FAL to enlarge the port

HOLY SHIT NO!!!:shaking:

To enlarge the "Barrel" gas port on a "METRIC" rifle, all you have to do is remove the front sight post, fixing plate, and spring. There is a hole to the rear of the sight post threaded hole that goes straight down through the gas block into the barrel. THATS the hole that has to be enlarged to increase the amount of gas to the piston.

You can do an inch with gas block in place, but its 45* not 90*

So, you don't need to enlarge the gas port on the barrel at all when cutting down to 11" barrel length?

Yes, you have too.

No he ios saying you dont need to remove the gas block on the FAL to enlarge the port

Yes!

You can do an inch with gas block in place, but its 45* not 90*

Also, Yes! And another reason why I don`t care for inch pattern guns.

Anyone know the thread pitch of a DSA short gas system 16.25" fluted medium contour barrel with the Wilson Combat A2 style flash hider?

Anyone know the thread pitch of a DSA short gas system 16.25" fluted medium contour barrel with the Wilson Combat A2 style flash hider?

Let me rephrase this a bit for clarity.

I`m not sure what "thread pitch" your refering to. But the standard chamber end thread pitch for barrels and receivers of metric and inch pattern guns is 1" x 16 right hand. Standard muzzle thread pitch is 9/16" x 24 left hand.

Yes!

Sorry Mr Emotional.. I didnt know you could do it without removing the gas block :flipoff2:

Sorry Mr Emotional.. I didnt know you could do it without removing the gas block :flipoff2:

No problem.:D
I do tend to get "Emotional" when people throw out answers to questions they know nothing about.:flipoff2:
Thats why I STFU when I don`t know for sure. Hope this helps.:D

Anyone know the thread pitch of a DSA short gas system 16.25" fluted medium contour barrel with the Wilson Combat A2 style flash hider?

If you're talking about the flash hider thread pitch, DSA lists other barrels with an A2 flash hider as having a 1/2"-28 pitch.

http://www.dsarms.com/SA58-FAL-OSW-11-Complete-Front-End-308-Cal---00111C/productinfo/00111C/

As this is not your specific barrel, I would still recommend either calling DSA or checking the pitch yourself.

Anyone know the thread pitch of a DSA short gas system 16.25" fluted medium contour barrel with the Wilson Combat A2 style flash hider?

Let me rephrase this a bit for clarity.

I`m not sure what "thread pitch" your refering to. But the standard chamber end thread pitch for barrels and receivers of metric and inch pattern guns is 1" x 16 right hand. Standard muzzle thread pitch is 9/16" x 24 left hand.

If you're talking about the flash hider thread pitch, DSA lists other barrels with an A2 flash hider as having a 1/2"-28 pitch.

http://www.dsarms.com/SA58-FAL-OSW-11-Complete-Front-End-308-Cal---00111C/productinfo/00111C/

As this is not your specific barrel, I would still recommend either calling DSA or checking the pitch yourself.

I checked it myself. It is 1/2" - 28 pitch.

No problem.:D
I do tend to get "Emotional" when people throw out answers to questions they know nothing about.:flipoff2:
Thats why I STFU when I don`t know for sure. Hope this helps.:D

I did know it needed to be enlarged, just didnt know you could do it without removing the gas black.. so I did know something about it.. :flipoff2:

Just trying to help out the OP, meant no harm. :D

from the factory.. REAL(LOL)FAL MUZZLE threads are either 9/16X24 RH or 9/16X24 LH...

however, some of the newer USA made copies are anyone guess..I have seen 1/2X28 and 5/8X24 on these...

Who sells a can threaded for 9/16X24 LH

Looks like a QD YHM can is the option, with multiple QD's for different applications. I really don't like the QD look on a FAL.....

Barrel Twist:

Barrel twist on all current production DSA FAL rifle barrels is 1 in 10. Older barrels may have a 1 in 11 twist. We are now standardized on the 1 in 10 twist regardless of barrel type. Thread patterns for all DSA barrels is 9/16 x left hand, and fluted Tactical Carbine barrels are all 1/2 x 28.


DSA's FAQ on FAL Files.

EDIT: Link is dead. DSA is no longer "active" on FAL Files....and the FAQ has been moved/deleted.

Paperwork back. Dropped off to be cut and threaded. Gas port sizing should be what with an 11" barrel, if you have BTDT already? I emailed DSA to see what it is on their OSW's.....I'm willing to bet they don't reply, or claim that its proprietary or something.....

start at .110 and try it, then work up in size til it works well...




.139" works on a 6" bbl...but the muzzle blast is so bad with milspec ammo that you have to wear shades even in daylight...muzzle devices do not last long either, they gunk up very quickly.
I am sure 11" will be fine...that is the bbl length on my SKS...but I welded a 5" FH on the end of it...

start at .110 and try it, then work up in size til it works well...




.139" works on a 6" bbl...but the muzzle blast is so bad with milspec ammo that you have to wear shades even in daylight...muzzle devices do not last long either, they gunk up very quickly.
I am sure 11" will be fine...that is the bbl length on my SKS...but I welded a 5" FH on the end of it...


6" barrel... :laughing:

Thanks. Will advise.

Paperwork back. Dropped off to be cut and threaded. Gas port sizing should be what with an 11" barrel, if you have BTDT already? I emailed DSA to see what it is on their OSW's.....I'm willing to bet they don't reply, or claim that its proprietary or something.....

I asked DSA the same Q and never received a response. Don`t sweat it. Start at .110 as Runner suggested and increase as needed.

You will be way ahead of the game if you double and triple check EVERYTHING in the reciprocating assemblies for binding. This includes the bolt/carrier group and gas tube/piston, piston spring assemblies. It ALL needs to move freely! If your not getting reliable functioning with a gas port size of .120 with the regulator set around 3-4, you need to look for other issues. The largest I`ve ever had to go on a short gas rifle was a port size of .122. After 500 rounds, I was able to back the regulator off to 5-6, depending on the ammo. IMHO any 11-13" Fal will operate reliably with a gas port of .120 or less, if the other internal reciprocating parts are running smoothly.

I forgot to add that you will be removing a substantial amount from the gas piston spring to prevent it from binding and hindering full travel of the piston. I don`t remember how much, but I`ll try to find out tomorrow.

I asked DSA the same Q and never received a response. Don`t sweat it. Start at .110 as Runner suggested and increase as needed.

You will be way ahead of the game if you double and triple check EVERYTHING in the reciprocating assemblies for binding. This includes the bolt/carrier group and gas tube/piston, piston spring assemblies. It ALL needs to move freely! If your not getting reliable functioning with a gas port size of .120 with the regulator set around 3-4, you need to look for other issues. The largest I`ve ever had to go on a short gas rifle was a port size of .122. After 500 rounds, I was able to back the regulator off to 5-6, depending on the ammo. IMHO any 11-13" Fal will operate reliably with a gas port of .120 or less, if the other internal reciprocating parts are running smoothly.

I forgot to add that you will be removing a substantial amount from the gas piston spring to prevent it from binding and hindering full travel of the piston. I don`t remember how much, but I`ll try to find out tomorrow.

No kidding....cutting the springs too? Great. I guess not as simple as the SBR'ing of the AR....

No kidding....cutting the springs too? Great. I guess not as simple as the SBR'ing of the AR....

Don`t get your panties in a bunch. I said you will need to cut down the GAS PISTON SPRING ONLY. All the other springs will be fine the way they are. If you can compare a standard length gas piston to a short gas piston, you will notice a good difference in length. Hence the reason the spring has to be shorter also to keep it from hindering full travel of the gas piston. Its not as big a deal as it sounds. The only reason there is a spring on the piston to begin with is to get it the F@#k out of the way of the bolt/carrier returning to battery. :)

Don`t get your panties in a bunch. I said you will need to cut down the GAS PISTON SPRING ONLY. All the other springs will be fine the way they are. If you can compare a standard length gas piston to a short gas piston, you will notice a good difference in length. Hence the reason the spring has to be shorter also to keep it from hindering full travel of the gas piston. Its not as big a deal as it sounds. The only reason there is a spring on the piston to begin with is to get it the F@#k out of the way of the bolt/carrier returning to battery. :)

I already have the short gas system on this FAL. So are you saying that I will still have to modify the piston spring?

I already have the short gas system on this FAL. So are you saying that I will still have to modify the piston spring?

The fact that you already have a short gas system rifle went completely over my head, my opoligies. :homer:

You shouldn`t need to make any adjustments to the piston, or its spring.

Back today, with can attached for pic......

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=148&pictureid=8035

Range later on.

:drool:


That is bad-ass!

VERY NICE work...be sure to let us know how it works out...


you putting together a group to come to OSR SW shootout/cookout?


maybe silverzuk and DRM? you guys are sorta close by each other...I think.

DRM and I are about 7 hours apart.
He's near Nashville and I am near Charleston WV.

VERY NICE work...be sure to let us know how it works out...


you putting together a group to come to OSR SW shootout/cookout?


maybe silverzuk and DRM? you guys are sorta close by each other...I think.

Thanks. No traveling for me anytime soon. DRM is close....close enough. :laughing:

Updated pic after some R&R of parts. EOTEch to come.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=148&pictureid=8081

The DSA grip has a metal plate as the bottom of the grip, unlike the TAPCO ones I have seen that are all plastic. Grip makes a good place to store a copy of the stamp papers and an OSW flash hider.

Sweet.


I finally get to pick up my Phantom 7.62 that I got from Pete today. Your shorty really makes me want to blow money, or at least whack my FAL back to 18"

Sweet.


I finally get to pick up my Phantom 7.62 that I got from Pete today. Your shorty really makes me want to blow money, or at least whack my FAL back to 18"

C'mon. Do it. Order a front end from DSA....send off your paperwork for a FAL receiver and see which arrives first. DSA makes good stuff.....but man are they running on their own schedule.

I'm going to try and run it today. Works been getting in the way.

There's that whole being unemployed due to a crushing school schedule at the moment issue.

There's that whole being unemployed due to a crushing school schedule at the moment issue.

Ugh. Maybe I can ship it to a local class III to you for repair and "testing".

Took it to the range today. Ran fifteen rounds of hornady tap through it without fail. Gas setting at 4. Gas at 5 would stovepipe. Going to try some DAG later once I get a sight on it. Very pleased. Need to put a couple 100 down the tube.

Took it to the range today. Ran fifteen rounds of hornady tap through it without fail. Gas setting at 4. Gas at 5 would stovepipe. Going to try some DAG later once I get a sight on it. Very pleased. Need to put a couple 100 down the tube.

With or without the suppressor?

With or without the suppressor?

without. It will be several months before the suppressor is approved and home.

OSW DSA flashhider vs size of YHM QD.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=148&pictureid=8083


Just a close up of the business end.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=148&pictureid=8084

Ready for sighting in.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=148&pictureid=8085

I may try the SMith Enterprises Vortex, seems it really cuts down on the flash, but I honestly didn't notice anything terrible at the indoor range with the YHM QD. Maybe the OSW does nothing to help the flash.

The phantom flash hider is very effective, about as effective as the vortex to be honest. The one thing the phantom has over the vortex is a lack of sounding like a tuning fork after every shot. If you wear electronic hearing protection, it'll drive you nuts.

The phantom flash hider is very effective, about as effective as the vortex to be honest. The one thing the phantom has over the vortex is a lack of sounding like a tuning fork after every shot. If you wear electronic hearing protection, it'll drive you nuts.

Ugh. This is why OSR rocks. You just saved me some money. I was really surprised at the lack of flash when shooting indoors.

could you post some more pics.. both with and with out the can.. thats a bad ass looking gun man.. never been a big fan of these until i saw this one.. :smokin:

Dam that fucker is sweet...:grinpimp:

could you post some more pics.. both with and with out the can.. thats a bad ass looking gun man.. never been a big fan of these until i saw this one.. :smokin:

........OK....I'll see what I can take and put up here. No action shots yet.

Dam that f*cker is sweet...:grinpimp:

Thanks. I'm smiling like a little kid just looking at it.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=148&pictureid=8096

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=148&pictureid=8097

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=148&pictureid=8098

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=148&pictureid=8099

I wanted the DSA extended scope rail for the sight mount since this gun has no carry handle cut, but DSA is not making them until they get ready to do so............whenever that is. I plan on swapping to the full top rail when able and will put what I have on another FAL to replace a Gun Guy Parts top rail that came on another rifle. Really like the surefire grip I got used from a pawn shop for sub $300. Not sure about moving the EO Tech further forward due to balance being good where it is.

I appreciate all the input.

Can paperwork came back last week. Pics to come.

Weighed above with the can last night for giggles after I was weighing some of the other rifles....my pig of a short FAL with goodies, a full mag, and the can weighs 15 lbs. Heafty... :flipoff2:

The savage model 12 .308 with scope and choate stock was 13.5 ...varmit barrel.
The stevens 200 .223 with scope and factory grey stock was 9.5 ..sporter barrel

Youch, that's about what my salvage .308 with a ~20" barrel, same can, falcon 4-14, and heavy assed choate stock weighs.

Bet the FAL balances better though.

Youch, that's about what my salvage .308 with a ~20" barrel, same can, falcon 4-14, and heavy assed choate stock weighs.

Bet the FAL balances better though.

I agree!

I have been toying with a 24" (sorry) HS stocked 10FP and was concerned over packing the weight hunting. Savage says it will weigh 9 lbs...the McMillan 10 lbs.

Balance of it all together is good. That YHM 308 can is a brick.

That is badass! How quiet is it!?

That is badass! How quiet is it!?

Very with Chris's subs. Otherwise not to bad. Some blowback. I think the AK with the can is quieter. Really fun to shoot.

Sorry, Chris's subs?

Could you post a video?

I love FALs...especially projects like these. Very cool man. If I may ask...what do you have in it?

Sorry, Chris's subs?

Could you post a video?

I love FALs...especially projects like these. Very cool man. If I may ask...what do you have in it?

Chris here in OSR. He has the revolver "problem" thread.

Not willing to think about the other question.

Thanks for the words.

maybe silverzuk and DRM? you guys are sorta close by each other...I think.

Silverzuk is actually closer to me, but I don't know if I could understand his coon ass riding in the car for that many hours!!

Plus, what wrong with us getting an E. Coast thing going and giving YOU shit for not making it?!?! :flipoff2:



Yellow - I hate your face. That thing is BADASS!!!!!! I :heart: FALs!!

Nice work!

Thanks.

It now has the extended top rail installed. Looks better. The extended top rail really completes the look on the noncarry handle FAL's. My sick and un-accurate DSA FAL, that is being worked over, has the Xtended one on it too now and it changes the look.

Per GOZUKI request for a clean rail pic:

http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL1164/13376073/23828617/397491694.jpg